Author Topic: figure/fitness Judging???  (Read 12647 times)

Tre

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2006, 11:38:52 AM »
Anyone find it odd that Savell doesn't hardly place in the top 10 at Team U, signs on as a JM girl, then wins a show, places fairly at the O and then gets third at the arnold?

I pity these girls. Most just love standing on stage.  They ruin their bodies half the time for nothing.  The sooner they realize there is no money in this crap the better off they are. 
Whoa whoa there, tiger. 

I don't care who she's 'with' - she's hot and has a darn great physique. 

Does she or does she not look like someone you'd buy sports supplements from? 

I don't know (or care) what she 'puts in her body', but she looks fantastic and it seems to have worked really well for her. 

I've never met her, but she gets a thumbs-up in my book. 




Tre

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2006, 11:41:39 AM »
Save your pity for those who don't choose to put themselves in situations-as for me and my fellow competitors we don't want it.
I don't know you, but I LIKE YOU!

In addition to your attitude, I'm down with any woman who refers to herself as "The Beast".  :D

1Fast400

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2006, 11:55:29 AM »
I will agree with one thing YouAreKidding said.  The pity thing, but only for some girls.  Having dated a fitness model for 2 years, there is a lot of expense that goes into a show.  I seriously doubt most of these athletes could do this without some source of outside income.  It is my personal opinion that a lot of NPC athletes feel there will be money in this "sport" once they turn pro.  That just isn't true.  Very few women in this sport have been successful from a money standpoint.  Most that have been, didn't compete that much or win the events. 

The extreme nature of the sport takes its toll on a person's body.  I know a lot of people in this industry who are in there mid 30's and look mid 40's.  A lot of people will just listen to a "guru" diet person who ends up screwing them up.  They trust people who turn around and stab them in the back. 

Another thing that drives me nuts are "photographers".  Just because you own a camera doesn't make you a photographer.  At nationals I had a very attractive woman working my booth.  She hadn't been exposed to our industry.  I didn't mark my booth, I just had random stuff sitting on the table.  Few know what I look like, so I sat back the whole weekend and watched in awe.  Guys coming up claiming how they would be able to make this girl the next big thing.  She walked away that weekend with over 30 business cards.  After looking through them, 2 of them were ones that were actual legit people.  I could go on and on, but I'm really hungry and need to eat :).

sue1ross

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2006, 01:26:10 PM »
Ya, if Jenny H was a Manion girl, she would of won....  Jenny H kicked ass and there was no question about it.  How can they justify that her 2 min. routine tied w/ Kim's same routine she did at the Olympia.  If anything they should of taken away points from Kim for not being creative enough to think of a new routine:)

Butterbean

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2006, 02:50:12 PM »
Ya, if Jenny H was a Manion girl, she would of won.... 

Do you think she was temporarily a Manion girl last year for the Arnold AND the O?

R

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2006, 06:16:03 PM »
I don't know you, but I LIKE YOU!

In addition to your attitude, I'm down with any woman who refers to herself as "The Beast".  :D

Thank you very much!
Jennifer

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2006, 11:17:51 PM »
Hey Jennifer good attitude, you have to do it for yourself.  Life isn't always fair so you can't expect everything else to be either and I think you get that. 

In case you haven't seen it I've got a few pix of you from the after party on our expo/party report:
http://www.genexmagazine.com/genex/buzz/06/arnold.htm

;)

gene

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2006, 03:01:38 AM »
Hold on, brother.  Don't diss the comic - that's cool stuff and is a lot more 'mainstream' (which a high percentage of people in this business are so ga-ga over becoming) than anything you'll find in Flex Magazine. 

With respect to Shemuscle, hey, it's not everyone's flavor, but I liked its edginess.  I was a member about a year ago and felt I got good value for my money and I didn't see anything pornographic about it.  Maybe that's changed, but it had a nice NC-17 rating during the time I was a member. 


 
They have acutal (porn stars) on there now...where is says.."amatuer fitness" or "pro figure" or whatever...there are "porn stars" and girls "rebecca rush etc.." licking each other and female bodybuilders fingering thereselves...I don't know what it used to be, but it's porn now.


The BEAST

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2006, 09:36:56 AM »
Hey Jennifer good attitude, you have to do it for yourself.  Life isn't always fair so you can't expect everything else to be either and I think you get that. 

In case you haven't seen it I've got a few pix of you from the after party on our expo/party report:
http://www.genexmagazine.com/genex/buzz/06/arnold.htm

;)

gene

I didn't get it last year but I gave myself quite a few months to reflect and realize life won't always go my way...and I have to do the things that make me happy and feel good about myself.  Thanks for the kind words.

I wish I would've had the chance to meet you at the Arnold...oh and I am glad to see that picture is more tame then I remember the night being :-\
Jennifer

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2006, 01:38:36 PM »

I wish I would've had the chance to meet you at the Arnold...oh and I am glad to see that picture is more tame then I remember the night being :-\

LOL.....I'm gonna have to ask about this......

 ;D

fitfan8869

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2006, 06:06:33 PM »
Also - sorry to repost - was I the only one at the show who noticed one of the routines was totally awful? A whole pile of sloppy moves, her 'high' kicks barely reached her waist - I repeat her waist - and the whole thing was pretty much a mess.

A few people around me were laughing :-\



Please at least give a hint as to which competitor you are speaking of?  I saw the routines on a video, and a small screen, and saw a few bad ones, but did not notice this majorly pathetic one??  Just a hint?

Fit Figures

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2006, 09:49:25 AM »
IFBB amatuer world level is similar to the US national level yes - winners get pro status like your nationals. Difference is it is open to all countries around the world [you have to win/place high in your nation to qualify] and it is heavily drug tested...for ephedra and excessive caffeine also.

Jennifer - You looked fine...in ways better. Practically every girl has great big implants, you looked nice and athletic.

Allissa -I meant to pm you... Huge congrats on your placing at nationals. Saw you on the PPV and you looked great. I was very impressed by the commentators comments on you. Next year = pro card for you :)

Thanks CQ!  I didn't hear what they said, but I'm glad it was good.  Hopefully this will be my year.

CQ

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2006, 11:07:10 AM »
Please at least give a hint as to which competitor you are speaking of?  I saw the routines on a video, and a small screen, and saw a few bad ones, but did not notice this majorly pathetic one??  Just a hint?

She was a 'newbie'.If you get the DVD later you will definitely be able to pick her out :-\


NPCOK

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2006, 07:37:45 AM »
My intention with this thread was not to talk down on any of the girls that are placed well or to be a conspiracy thoerist. I train competitors and it is hard to bring them into a show when you do not know what the judges are looking for...there is no "stardard" it changes from one show to the next. When you give a woman first place you are saying "this is what you need to look like to win". If that is always a different look altogether it's very hard to meet. When you say tone down muscularity 20% and then award a girl who is "jacked" then the competitors don't know which was to go. If you want the girl more muscular and hard thats fine if you want them a little softer and more "feminine" thats fine. Its just hard to train and bring in competitors when you don't know how they are supposed to look. My other comments about the comics and porn sites come from the fact that I work with these girls, I am married to one of these girls "fitness competitor"....all time you hear people talking about fintess/figure girls they are referred to as: industry whores, fitness sluts etc.... The reason being you have pro "athletes" licking each other topless all over the web. Sexy is one thing pornographic is another...I guess its a fine line but sometimes clearly crossed. Fitness/Figure girls are some of the hardest working athletes I have ever worked with. It's sad they are generally given a bad image. Most of them are not coke whores who burn bodies in the trunk of their cars...yet the ones in the industry that do partake in this stuff give all the girls a bad image. You wonder why there is  zero money in the sport...hey random large corporation with an image to uphold...would you like to sponsor this fitness competitor/porn star...she will really boost the image of your company:) As far as the comic book thing...no harm there really I just thought it was kind of weird. You don't see the top "stars" in other "sports" doing things like that. If some people have an obsession with super hero's then thats thing...not my particular brand of protein shake but hey...whatever

Jodi

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2006, 10:33:17 AM »
I think it is a valid point to make that the standard for figure does seem to be different according to the show and according to the girls who show up.  I think that's the nature of the beast, unfortunately, since there isn't a specific rubric of judging criteria with set percentage ranges given to muscularity, conditioning (those two are different and yet get mixed up by some fans and competitors), symmetry, suits, poise, and beauty (I hate to admit it, but figure is somewhat of a glorified, muscular beauty contest...there's just no getting around that; we are judged on our looks from head to toe).

I also think it's a valid point to make that all of us work hard.  I don't know that one girl works harder than another.  There are too many factors to take into account in order to quantify such an intangible statement.  Maybe the work is done differently, but unless a person steps into the competitor's shoes on an hour-by-hour and a day-by-day basis, one cannot say who works harder than the next.  Effort simply isn't a factor in the judging process.  Figure, fitness, and bodybuilding are their own distinct animals...separate and apart from the general sport/athletic community, where effort and skill truly play huge roles in garnering success.

It all adds up to this:  compete for yourself.  You can make a goal to win a show or to earn a trophy or pro card, but that goal is based upon such subjectivity that I don't see it as being a realistic or healthy one.  I know because I spent years trying to attain such goals.  Instead, turn achievements within and decide for yourself what physique you wish to bring to the stage.  Once you set yourself free of reaching others' expectations and instead concentrate on your own, it becomes a much healthier battle within.

I'm still trying to learn this.
Jodi

slippediskmountian

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2006, 10:58:10 AM »
Amanda is one of the hardest working, intelligent, caring people I have ever met. She has become a close friend and I am both proud of her as a competitor and as a person. It is an honor that she considers me a friend.

Does that make me bias? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't think so.  I've told her when I thought she looks great and I've told her when I thought she looked off her game. Of course, as far as her placings, whether I am bias is a little irrelevant. I am not a judge and I certainly don't have any influence over any judges.

Amanda's first show was the Orange county in April of 2005. She started working on her plan, her dream, in mid 2004. Just her, her family and her friends... people who have been a never ending supply of support and encouragement. And she hasn't stop working to her max since then. Her focus and her commitment has been unwavering.

You know.... I have a shit load more to say... but I imagine most of it will fall on the deaf ears of those they are intended for. I hope at some point you can get off the bitter bandwagon and deal with the fact that this woman has earned everything she has received.

I will close with this:

Amanda's contests and placing since that first show.

Apr 23         Orange County - Overall Winner
Apr 29-30     Emerald Cup - 1st Place E division
July 29-30    USA's - 1st Place E class (qualified for Pro Card)
Aug 5-6       NY Figure Pro - 7th Place
Sept 16-17   Europa Super Show - 1st Place overall (qualifies for 2005 Olympia)
October 05   Figure Olympia -  8th Place
Oct 21-21    San Francisco Pro - 7th Place
Mar 3-4       Arnold Classic - 3rd Place (qualifies for 2006 Olympia)

Deal with the hard work and commitment this took.


P.S.  Yes, Amanda is WAY hot! 


a shitload more to say?? ... you didnt say anything relevant in the first place ... all the competitors are hard working, and her being "intelligent, caring" and having a "supportive family" really has nothing to do with the point "youarejoking" was bringing up....

anyone who doesnt see a connection between jm girls and inordinate placings is either a fucking idiot or afraid to speak their mind






















and thats real :D

Butterbean

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2006, 11:19:46 AM »
She was a 'newbie'.If you get the DVD later you will definitely be able to pick her out :-\



CQ, do you have a link for the DVD?  Thanks :)
R

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2006, 11:50:47 AM »
Jennifer, I saw how much fun you were having, I am just saving those shots for blackmail.  Luckily Susan was being a good friend to ya!  :)

CQ

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2006, 04:03:02 PM »
CQ, do you have a link for the DVD?  Thanks :)

Sorry no, I don't believe it is even out yet.

As far as the figure judging goes, I think Jodi makes valid points. Figure judging takes 'subjective' to the next level. In fitness the judging is somewhat easier to comprehend as even an untrained eye can distinguish between the top routines and a not so good routine. In BB, where size and conditioning matter, one can see why a larger, more shredded person places higher than a smaller, less conditioned person. There is no such thing as a bodybuilder being too shredded or too large [assuming they are proportional] and in fitness there is no such thing as a routine that is too good.

In figure you could be too large, too small, too conditioned, too shredded, too soft, too whatever. That's why I never even begin to debate the placings.

Honestly even as someone who has followed figure since it's inception [fitness as well] I still don't even begin to get it. To me alot of it is personal choice. EG: a couple of the top girls physiques just don't cut it for me. A couple have what I call "extended backs" as in their glutes are so damn flat I can't distinguish where their back ends and their glutes begin. I do not in any manner find this to be a good thing, but that is just my tastes.

I can't really see any way to change this, so like Jodi said acceptance may be the key :)


Dina

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2006, 05:03:44 PM »
I would say the key is coming in the way YOU want to, and not following someone else's wants because at the end of the day only YOU have to live with the way you look.

slippediskmountian

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2006, 08:17:05 PM »
i didnt read that!

JKDMan

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2006, 11:29:36 PM »
Of course there's is a connection! J.M. is in a business person. As far as inordinate? Someobody would have to do some serious math to attemp to prove that. And I doubt anyone wants to spend the time.

As a business person J.M. needs revenue and he needs product to produce that revenue. He has an ability to look at the competitors (products) and have a good idea who is going to do well in the future. Not by if he CAN sign them but if he SHOULD sign them. It's called calculated risk. This determined by looking at their physiques, there presence and YES their marketability! So he knows if he signs that woman with his company he can have a fair expectation of return on his investment.

In turn, the women who sign with JM already had the tools and the drive to make it onstage because THAT is what brought them to J.M.' attention. THAT is why he wanted to sign them.  So these women signed with JM can now make some money by getting deals brokered by J.M. with sponsors and get their pics and layouts in magazines.

You might want to review your intro to capitalism book, that's how it works. A business needs a product or service to sell and that product must be advertised and promoted..,  Again, what J.M. does.  Are there politics in business? Yeah, check your college text book business politics 101. I think it's chapter six.

When will people learn that "just keepin' it real" and "that's real" is almost always just another way of saying "I have no proof to back my statements or assumptions" so I'll just try to sound cool.

I'll close by saying I don't know J.M. Never met him, never chatted with him. No particualrl reason why, just never seemed to be in the same hall way or hotel lounge at the same time. I suspect we'll meet and chat someday. Hey, maybe I can pick up a business tip or two from him.  Oh and Jim... if you read this...  Is it    J.M. or is it JM?  I get that confused.

P.S. the ativan is starting to wear off so I think it's nap time.
Wow.  ::)
Lee

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2006, 06:59:32 AM »
I love it when a person comes in screaming, only to not understand what they are talking about.

I have never said amanda didn't work hard, wasn't a nice person or any other derogatory comment about her.  There are still certain facts that remain.  The judging in this industry is ungodly bias.  It takes nothing more than looking at the score sheet thats already been posted to see that.  When new girls are automatically are given the worst possible scores you can score, when it is obvious they weren't the worst on stage.  It stands to reason, that if that is how they are going to judge things, then ANY new girl competing in the arnold should be blackedballed as well.  How odd that a girl that signed with JM just HAPPEN to sidestep all of that.  Ask any girl within the industry what they expect when starting their first shows.  They all know they will get bad placings.  Amanda once again, wins won of her first shows after getting up with JM.

There is another figure girl that went to the top pretty quick, managed to piss off the wrong people right before the arnold, and wow she is near the bottom.  Amazing how that happens.

If you don't seen an incredibly large problem with the fact that the head judges's son owns a company that manages women that HE judges, than you're just stupid.  Once again, any person that gets up on that stage went through pure hell to get there.  It's just a shame that the top 3 places at any show is decided prior to the athletes being put on that stage.  Don't believe it?  Look at the score cards yourself.  Why would the top 3 be scored light years higher than everyone else?  Just like the two newbies being scored equally as hard.  This show is the first time I've ever seen a score card.  It would be interesting if you could go back over 20 shows just to see if there is a pattern.  I'd hate to even look at the ungodly rigged national level results.  That is a whole different story. 

fitfan8869

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Re: figure/fitness Judging???
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2006, 06:42:01 PM »


There is another figure girl that went to the top pretty quick, managed to piss off the wrong people right before the arnold, and wow she is near the bottom.  Amazing how that happens.

If you don't seen an incredibly large problem with the fact that the head judges's son owns a company that manages women that HE judges, than you're just stupid.

Probably the best points made on this thread.