Author Topic: figure/fitness Judging??? (Read 12704 times)

NPCOK · « **on:** March 08, 2006, 04:38:59 AM »

What happened to the 20% less muscularity. Jen Hendershott was very hard last year when she won her titles and she looked to have toned in down this year at the Arnold. Adela was jacked in comparison and she won....Davana was JACKED at the Olympia and won even though she looked more like Joanna Thomas than a figure competitor. The men are also supposed to meet this new criteria for asthetics as well and we have seen no change. When you pick a winner you are setting a standard..you are telling all of the other athletes: this is what we want you to look like..this is what we consider perfect. Why release judging criteria if you are not going to follow it? Women's bodybuilding, and figure/fitness will soon meet in the middle as the bb's are toning it down and the figure girls are jacking it up!

NPCOK · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:55:01 AM »

one more thing....Mary Lado vs. Monica Brant??? What did Monica do wrong....who did she piss off and why isn't she given her dues? No disrespect to Mary, but I think she has a very average physique..I have seen random girls in bikini's on the beach with more impressive body's...just my opinion. I guess she is in with the right people

fitfan8869 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:27:39 PM »

Quote from: NPCOK on March 08, 2006, 04:38:59 AM

What happened to the 20% less muscularity. Jen Hendershott was very hard last year when she won her titles and she looked to have toned in down this year at the Arnold. Adela was jacked in comparison and she won..

I could not agree more and thought this same thing. Jen was toned down, as was Tracy Greenwood, and Julie Palmer. Acutally all the girls were toned down except Adela??? I also saw the score sheets and Adela won the 2 minute routine?? I think Adela is a great competitor and has always had a phenomenal physique, but everyone knows Jen Hendershott should win any routine round any time, especially with girls like Kelly and Stacy Hylton no longer competing. It appears JMP Management is back in effect.

Malibu Barbie · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:18:28 AM »

"It appears JMP Management is back in effect."
Uhmmm, when have they not been? I think at the Arnold's and the Pittsburg's they just tend to be more blatant.

NPCOK I could not agree with you more; I would have reversed the order of 1st and 2nd place. I too have wondered about why Mary has continued to place over IMO better competitors. Truthfully, I had no expectation Monica B. would win, no matter how much better she is. Manion will not ever let that happen. I also feel that Monica G. should have switched places with Christine P.. Maybe Manion doesn't like the name Monica or something.

angelfit · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:24:01 AM »

thank goodness someone finally said something -
i love adela and all - but COME ON HERE....
there is no consistency present whatsoever in the judging / placing -
JEN wins the 45 second - but not the night routine ! ??

AND FIGURE - you can NEVER understand what they are looking
for - BUT Mary looks pretty and all - but like a pencil - straight
up and down - no shape - no symmetry from top to bottom - looks
like a Fitness America WINNER, not IFBB (nothing against Mary - just
not an amazing Figure look )

$:-\$

HELP - what the heck are you looking for

?

NPCOK · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2006, 06:51:34 AM »

It really is pathetic that you are given spots because of being with JMP. Nothing again Adela or Mary it's not their fault they were given the nod, but seriously do you have to appear in somebody's "fitness competitor comic book (project diva) to win a show"...how fucking weird is that shit anyways. They talk about the sport having a bad rep..yet the girls who pose for porn (shemuscle) or appear in a weird ass comic book series are given the nod. No wonder there are no big time sponsors in the sport!

The BEAST · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2006, 10:05:27 AM »

I agree with most of the posts and I really think they should've given 1st to Monica...unfortunately she does things the IFBB doesn't like (like working with other organizations) and I think they punish her for it. Figure and Fitness girls aren't getting rich and I think it is horrible they can't promote themselves outside the IFBB without repurcussions. With that being said, maybe you were all at the show too but I thought Adela'a night routine was great. Jen's was too but I think Adela had more skills and Jen's had more dancing. Both girls had the cleanest routines out of the mix-I think it could've gone either way. Also, I didn't see the short routine so I can't compare but Adela's routine really wowed me. As far as why Mary is moving ahead to be the nexy Jenny Lynn...I don't know-I don't see the lines with her as I do with some other girls. She looks good and is a pretty girl but I am lost as to what the judge want (and why Monica will never have "it").

CQ · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2006, 12:07:49 PM »

As far as Adela winning the 2 min round over Jen Hendershott... I would have thought this was crap too - if I was not there. Adela's routine was the best I have ever seen it. Her flexibility seems to have improved significantly, and her routine was far neater and polished than usual. Combining this with the fact that her routines have always been packed with tons of strength moves, made for an outstanding routine.

Jen's routines cannot be anything less than wonderful, but this was not her best showing. A great routine yes - but Adela's was actually comparable in this particular show.

Figure is wildly subjective that I don't really get into the judging, but like many others I would love to see Monica win a show.

CQ · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2006, 12:11:54 PM »

Also - sorry to repost - was I the only one at the show who noticed one of the routines was totally awful? A whole pile of sloppy moves, her 'high' kicks barely reached her waist - I repeat her waist - and the whole thing was pretty much a mess.

A few people around me were laughing $:-\$

The BEAST · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2006, 12:17:20 PM »

Yeah, I am with you there...my friend kept saying "she is a pro???" I can do that better, why am I not Pro. I actually thought most of the routines were lacking...but I am just a Figure girl so it hard for me to put down any of those Fitness girls.

Butterbean · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:32:33 PM »

Quote from: fitfan8869 on March 08, 2006, 04:27:39 PM

but everyone knows Jen Hendershott should win any routine round any time, especially with girls like Kelly and Stacy Hylton no longer competing. It appears JMP Management is back in effect.

Just out of curiosity, did you see the night show?

Quote from: angelfit on March 09, 2006, 02:24:01 AM

thank goodness someone finally said something -
i love adela and all - but COME ON HERE....
there is no consistency present whatsoever in the judging / placing -
JEN wins the 45 second - but not the night routine ! ??

They are 2 different routines. Perhaps Jen's 45 sec routine was best and Adela's 2 min routine was best.

Quote from: The BEAST on March 09, 2006, 10:05:27 AM

. With that being said, maybe you were all at the show too but I thought Adela'a night routine was great. Jen's was too but I think Adela had more skills and Jen's had more dancing. Both girls had the cleanest routines out of the mix-I think it could've gone either way. Also, I didn't see the short routine so I can't compare but Adela's routine really wowed me.

Good post

Quote from: CQ on March 09, 2006, 12:07:49 PM

As far as Adela winning the 2 min round over Jen Hendershott... I would have thought this was crap too - if I was not there. Adela's routine was the best I have ever seen it. Her flexibility seems to have improved significantly, and her routine was far neater and polished than usual. Combining this with the fact that her routines have always been packed with tons of strength moves, made for an outstanding routine.

Jen's routines cannot be anything less than wonderful, but this was not her best showing. A great routine yes - but Adela's was actually comparable in this particular show.

Good post.

CQ · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2006, 07:03:47 AM »

Quote from: The BEAST on March 09, 2006, 12:17:20 PM

Yeah, I am with you there...my friend kept saying "she is a pro???" I can do that better, why am I not Pro. I actually thought most of the routines were lacking...but I am just a Figure girl so it hard for me to put down any of those Fitness girls.

Yeah.

I compete in fitness at the IFBB amatuer world level and I can tell you it was bad. I talked to alot of other fitness girls there and they were totally astounded by it too. Not only was the routine done very badly - but she did not even have any hard moves it in. With all the great fitness competitors out there I have no idea how she got an invite.

Btw Jennifer- I saw you at the Pride booth and was waiting to introduce myself to you, but some guy was chatting away and I did not want to interrupt. You looked nice

slippediskmountian · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2006, 07:06:09 AM »

Quote from: CQ on March 10, 2006, 07:03:47 AM

Yeah.

I compete in fitness at the IFBB amatuer world level

pics ??

fitfan8869 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2006, 07:24:14 AM »

Quote from: STella on March 09, 2006, 02:32:33 PM

Just out of curiosity, did you see the night show?

Saw a video from a friend who snuck a camera in. Adela did do a great routine, but the problem is, on the routine scoring, is you, and the judges say that Hendershott's routine was not as good as some of the others she has done. Well, it was still the best that night and should have been scored that way.

Did you see the score sheets? They tied Kim Klein with Hendershott for 2nd and Kim has done that exact same routine two or three times in a row now?? What is up with that?

I also thought Tracy Greenwood did awesome, as she is another girl that has an awesome physique but has trouble in the routine rounds. She gets better every show, so why did she not get scored high as Adela did?

These girls all work so hard and I think they should just be fairly scored on ALL rounds and that did not happen here with several of the girls.

One of the new girls Allison Daughtery, had a great physique, and a decent routine, especially for a newbie and was scored last place of all the girls??? Come on, I saw 6 or 7 other competitors that she should have been placed ahead of.

The BEAST · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2006, 09:55:32 AM »

Quote from: CQ on March 10, 2006, 07:03:47 AM

Yeah.

I compete in fitness at the IFBB amatuer world level and I can tell you it was bad. I talked to alot of other fitness girls there and they were totally astounded by it too. Not only was the routine done very badly - but she did not even have any hard moves it in. With all the great fitness competitors out there I have no idea how she got an invite.

Btw Jennifer- I saw you at the Pride booth and was waiting to introduce myself to you, but some guy was chatting away and I did not want to interrupt. You looked nice

I wish you would've said hi! I felt a little uncomfortable in our outfits (not sure which day you went) but in the sports bra I didn't feel lean enough to be front of thousands! Espcially next to the Sans girls...not that they have better bodies, just different "assets."

Were you working the Arnold or just having fun? When are your next shows? Oh, and what does IFAA amatuer world level mean?

Fit Figures · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2006, 10:36:52 AM »

IFBB amateur worlds is the equivalent of NPC nationals in the US, correct?

As for the judging, I wish it were a sign of what the judges are looking for and moving towards - a bit more separation between the fitness and figure physiques. Fitness being harder and figure a little softer and natural looking. But I doubt this was the case, and we'll be left to not knowing again and just playing it by ear. Not that it matters much because the NPC guidelines are totally different! *sigh*

CQ · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:39:28 PM »

IFBB amatuer world level is similar to the US national level yes - winners get pro status like your nationals. Difference is it is open to all countries around the world [you have to win/place high in your nation to qualify] and it is heavily drug tested...for ephedra and excessive caffeine also.

Jennifer - You looked fine...in ways better. Practically every girl has great big implants, you looked nice and athletic.

Allissa -I meant to pm you... Huge congrats on your placing at nationals. Saw you on the PPV and you looked great. I was very impressed by the commentators comments on you. Next year = pro card for you

Tre · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2006, 12:01:40 PM »

Valerie Waugaman in 8th place?

Are you kidding me??

What. A. Joke.

Lift Studios · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2006, 03:40:07 PM »

Quote from: Tre on March 11, 2006, 12:01:40 PM

Valerie Waugaman in 8th place?

Are you kidding me??

What. A. Joke.

Not a joke - where she belonged at this show. I've praised Val since the first time I saw her at NPC JR USAs. She was way off at this show.

LIFT

1Fast400 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:31:08 AM »

If the judges want harder (i.e. adela) then they need to award all the harder type of bodies in that round of judging.

I don't think any of the athletes care HOW (meaning hard or soft) it is judged as long as it is consistent. When the two newest girls on stage both finish dead last by over 70 points from 11th place (they were 12-13), yet they had different bodies, one being very lean and one softer, then it has to make you wonder what is going on.

Look at the score sheets, 60 points or so between 3rd and 4th. Regardless of who placed where is there really THAT much difference between those girls? Same for the bottom 2.

Tre · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:14:18 AM »

Quote from: fitfan8869 on March 08, 2006, 04:27:39 PM

especially with girls like Kelly and Stacy Hylton no longer competing.

Stop the presses.

Stacy Hylton is no longer competing in the IFBB? Since when, and WHY?

Tre · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:18:31 AM »

Quote from: NPCOK on March 09, 2006, 06:51:34 AM

It really is pathetic that you are given spots because of being with JMP. Nothing again Adela or Mary it's not their fault they were given the nod, but seriously do you have to appear in somebody's "fitness competitor comic book (project diva) to win a show"...how fucking weird is that shit anyways. They talk about the sport having a bad rep..yet the girls who pose for porn (shemuscle) or appear in a weird ass comic book series are given the nod. No wonder there are no big time sponsors in the sport!

Hold on, brother. Don't diss the comic - that's cool stuff and is a lot more 'mainstream' (which a high percentage of people in this business are so ga-ga over becoming) than anything you'll find in Flex Magazine.

With respect to Shemuscle, hey, it's not everyone's flavor, but I liked its edginess. I was a member about a year ago and felt I got good value for my money and I didn't see anything pornographic about it. Maybe that's changed, but it had a nice NC-17 rating during the time I was a member.

Tre · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:29:43 AM »

Folks, the primary reason for the judging in fitness not being legitimate is that the same set of people typically 'judge' both the physique rounds and fitness routine rounds.

The secondary reason is that the 45-second round - despite all their best efforts to the contrary - sets up as nothing more than a 'who-do-we-want-to-place-higher-today' round.

I hear lots of moaning and groaning about the scoring of the two-minute routines, but even the most critical observers have to admit that they contain a *lot* for the 'judges' to absorb, evaluate, and compare to other performers. I'm not saying that they (judges) should not be held to a high standard of excellence in performing their task, but they should receive some leeway on this particular round.

As for you conspiracy theorists out there, the best solution is to tell all your non-JMP friends not to enter the International or Pittsburgh Pro events anymore. There - problem solved. I'd love to hear the placement arguments after a show like that.

YouAreJoking · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:14:14 AM »

Anyone find it odd that Savell doesn't hardly place in the top 10 at Team U, signs on as a JM girl, then wins a show, places fairly at the O and then gets third at the arnold?

I pity these girls. Most just love standing on stage. They ruin their bodies half the time for nothing. The sooner they realize there is no money in this crap the better off they are.

The BEAST · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:41:43 AM »

Quote from: YouAreJoking on March 13, 2006, 09:14:14 AM

Anyone find it odd that Savell doesn't hardly place in the top 10 at Team U, signs on as a JM girl, then wins a show, places fairly at the O and then gets third at the arnold?

I'm not saying that this assumption is right or wrong, but couldn't it be that she made improvements to her physique? Also, she got 7th at Team U...not too bad and if you compare the physique she brought to both shows, she is definitely harder and tighter at the Arnold (and her color is much different.)
team U... http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/teamu2005/profigure/amandasavell/twopiece/images/DSC_0586.jpg
arnold... http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/arnold2006/profigure/amandasavell/twopiece/images/DSC_1944.jpg

Quote from: YouAreJoking on March 13, 2006, 09:14:14 AM

I pity these girls. Most just love standing on stage. They ruin their bodies half the time for nothing. The sooner they realize there is no money in this crap the better off they are.

Isn't this a contradiction...if these woman love standing on stage, then the money isn't the issue for them. Obviously it is nice to be rewarded for hard work but I don't understand why you "pity them," they made the choice to be up there and they like what they are doing. How many times has Monica been shafted in the past years and she still gets on stage...she does it for herself and because, and I quote "the fans make it worth it."

Is it somewhat annoying to think that politics plays a major role in this "industry?" Of course...but I think most competitors realize this early on and deal with it (not dwell on it). I do this because I want to make myself better and do something 99% of the population can't do-I don't do it for the money (ha ha ha-I pay to do it) I do it because, like you said-I love being on stage...I love pushing myself to be better...I love meeting others that feel as I do. Save your pity for those who don't choose to put themselves in situations-as for me and my fellow competitors we don't want it.