Homophobic bakery pays $135,000 to butch lesbian couple

[disco_stu]

Interesting.

On the one hand:

A 2007 Oregon law protects the rights of gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people in employment, housing and public accommodations. The state ruled it also bars private businesses from discriminating against potential customers.


If a business knows the above law, then they either: (1) have to serve all people, or (2) not open a business if their religious background is going to violate the law, (3) open up a business, but realize that if they refuse to serve the LGBT community, this will result in damages, or (3) attempt to overturn the law.

Whether or not I agree with the law is besides the point. As business owners, they should have known this law and followed it. They didn't and were penalized.

and that pretty much sums it up.

nothing to see here people, move along, get outraged if you will...

[mame09]

It's not a white people issue.

yes it is white people made homos cool and its natural. gay rights all started in white countries

they went to war with the government and police so they have the free right to be openly gay and be treated equal

[HTexan]

yes it is white people made homos cool and its natural. gay rights all started in white countries

they went to war with the government and police so they have the free right to be openly gay and be treated equal

That's just because in 3rd world countries gays get totured ant killed. Freedom is great.

[Voice of Doom]

The bakery cats were idiots.  Take their money, bake them a shit cake, laugh as you spend their money, the end.

^^^^ x 100000000000000000000000 00


Have your ideals and keep them close in your house and church but the Business of America is Business!  Make that money.  Make them the best cake you can so they get all their friends to come buy from you.  Increase your sales.  When your conservative friends ask you how you can do it you tell them that you disagree with the lifestyle but believe in forgiveness...it's what Jesus would do.  Now they think you're awesome and tell their friends.  More Money!

[Primemuscle]

the mistake they made was giving a reason why they didn't want to make the cake.

Maybe, but I suspect the burden of proof in these cases lie with the proprietor. Even if they'd told their clientele that they were swamped and could not take on another job and offended ladies questioned this, the shop owner better be prepared to back up their statement to prove there was no intent to discriminate.

Personally, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this issue. On the one hand, I think business owners should be allowed to decide who they want or don't want to serve. On the other hand, I don't like discrimination and many of these folks and others have been discriminated against for a very long time. Discrimination perpetuates negative feelings about certain groups of people and it is hateful and cruel.

This is one of those issues that has no easy or absolute answers.

[Primemuscle]

yes it is white people made homos cool and its natural. gay rights all started in white countries

they went to war with the government and police so they have the free right to be openly gay and be treated equal

Are you a white person?

[Noel Fuller]

If I dont want to train somebody I overcharge, its easy to lose a customer, its stupid to stand up and asked to be sued

[Simple Simon]

Maybe, but I suspect the burden of proof in these cases lie with the proprietor. Even if they'd told their clientele that they were swamped and could not take on another job and offended ladies questioned this, the shop owner better be prepared to back up their statement to prove there was no intent to discriminate.

Personally, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this issue. On the one hand, I think business owners should be allowed to decide who they want or don't want to serve. On the other hand, I don't like discrimination and many of these folks and others have been discriminated against for a very long time. Discrimination perpetuates negative feelings about certain groups of people and it is hateful and cruel.

This is one of those issues that has no easy or absolute answers.

Lol, he could have just said the customer was rude to him in the shop and he didnt want to make the cake.
He could have come up with a million reasons rather than waffling on about homosexuality.

[Lustral]

^^^^ x 100000000000000000000000 00


Have your ideals and keep them close in your house and church but the Business of America is Business!  Make that money.  Make them the best cake you can so they get all their friends to come buy from you.  Increase your sales.  When your conservative friends ask you how you can do it you tell them that you disagree with the lifestyle but believe in forgiveness...it's what Jesus would do.  Now they think you're awesome and tell their friends.  More Money!

It depends if you view natural law as above man made law as religious people (and some secular people at times) do. It was law to discriminate against Jews in Germany in 1930s to 40s but some people objected on conscience. You can say this is dofferent but to them it may be akin to something a normal person considers morally wrong. Just go to another bakery.

[Andy Griffin]

Some people put their money where their mouth is, even when it isn't popular in contemporary "culture."

[drkaje]

Some people put their money where their mouth is, even when it isn't popular in contemporary "culture."

Did their community of supporters donate enough to offset the loss?

[Andy Griffin]

Did their community of supporters donate enough to offset the loss?

I haven't researched that.  Some people probably offered support. 

While I would gladly accept any money offered, given the couple's stated convictions, I wonder whether they would accept any offered support, or if they would look at paying this fine as "rendering unto Caesar what is Casear's"

[drkaje]

I haven't researched that.  Some people probably offered support. 

While I would gladly accept any money offered, given the couple's stated convictions, I wonder whether they would accept any offered support, or if they would look at paying this fine as "rendering unto Caesar what is Casear's"

That refers to taxes.

This couple was fined. It's wholly different and no rational person would attempt to make that specific verse suit their needs.

[Tapeworm]

Thread changed my mind.  At first, I thought: Good, fuck 'em.

Upon reflection, no.  Living in a free society means having the right to be an irrationally biased dickhead against anyone you want and it isn't the government's place to dictate who you have to take as a client.  If I don't like your shoes then that's reason enough, and I shouldn't have to be cagey about it and pretend like I'm too busy.  I don't like your shoes.  That's that.  So piss off.  My penalty is the lost income.  End of story.


Won't but ought to be a meme.  "Hey, do what you want but I'm not gonna bake you a cake over it."

[drkaje]

Thread changed my mind.  At first, I thought: Good, fuck 'em.

Upon reflection, no.  Living in a free society means having the right to be irrationally biased against anyone you want and it isn't the government's place to dictate who you have to take as a client.  If I don't like your shoes then that's reason enough, and I shouldn't have to be cagey about it and pretend like I'm too busy.  I don't like your shoes.  That's that.  So piss off.  My penalty is the lost income.  End of story.


Won't but ought to be a meme.  "Hey, do what you want but I'm not gonna bake you a cake over it."

I wish it were that simple.

[Tapeworm]

But the winning angle on this story is that most people getting married are straight and most pastry chefs are gay as the day is long.

[Andy Griffin]

That refers to taxes.

This couple was fined. It's wholly different and no rational person would attempt to make that specific verse suit their needs.

You can see it that way; I'm simply saying that the people involved may invoke the "Caesar" angle to their situation. 

They may not consider themselves bound by "reason" and they may be glad to pay the fine.

[HTexan]

As punishment the shop owners should be force to make nothing but gay cakes for a year. 

[Mr.1derful]

http://www.kptv.com/story/30842773/oregon-bakery-owners-pay-135k-in-gay-wedding-cake-case

[Primemuscle]

Lol, he could have just said the customer was rude to him in the shop and he didnt want to make the cake.
He could have come up with a million reasons rather than waffling on about homosexuality.

You may be right, but I suspect that whatever the reasons, you have to be ready to defend them.

Personally, I could care less who wants to get married as long as they are both adults.

I don't get how baking a cake or not has this much meaning for some people. If I were a baker, my goal would be to sell cakes not judge the folks who are buying them.

[HTexan]

You may be right, but I suspect that whatever the reasons, you have to be ready to defend them.

Personally, I could care less who wants to get married as long as they are both adults.

I don't get how baking a cake or not has this much meaning for some people. If I were a baker, my goal would be to sell cakes not judge the folks who are buying them.

Exactly.
It's was them trying to push their believes on the gay couple. 

[TuHolmes]

Exactly.
It's was them trying to push their believes on the gay couple. 

This is correct.

Any normal business person prays to the alter of the almighty dollar.

[Lustral]

You may be right, but I suspect that whatever the reasons, you have to be ready to defend them.

Personally, I could care less who wants to get married as long as they are both adults.

I don't get how baking a cake or not has this much meaning for some people. If I were a baker, my goal would be to sell cakes not judge the folks who are buying them.

Let's take this to an abstract situation:

Would you supply the firewood to an execution where someone was burned alive?

I would not. If it were legal? OK, let the shareholders talk - why do no pharma companies supply the USA with sodium pentobarbitol for executions anymore? Money...

Yes, money talks, often louder than morality, but you can see how people may find something objectionable - when there are 1000 other businesses offering the same service (this is not an emergency medical procedure, it is a cake...why get so angry that one person won't make a cake for you?).

It would not bother me, or 95% of people, but why force the 5% who object to do something they feel is morally reprehensible? That is just bullying in my view.

[drkaje]

You can see it that way; I'm simply saying that the people involved may invoke the "Caesar" angle to their situation. 

They may not consider themselves bound by "reason" and they may be glad to pay the fine.

I wrote rational, LOL!

Yes. There are dimwits who pretend random verses suit every situation but that's more a case of being willfully ignorant than religious.

[Primemuscle]

Let's take this to an abstract situation:

Would you supply the firewood to an execution where someone was burned alive?

I would not. If it were legal? OK, let the shareholders talk - why do no pharma companies supply the USA with sodium pentobarbitol for executions anymore? Money...

Yes, money talks, often louder than morality, but you can see how people may find something objectionable - when there are 1000 other businesses offering the same service (this is not an emergency medical procedure, it is a cake...why get so angry that one person won't make a cake for you?).

It would not bother me, or 95% of people, but why force the 5% who object to do something they feel is morally reprehensible? That is just bullying in my view.

Burning people at the stake compared to baking a cake is a big stretch. People don't often die from cake, unless they are Marie Antoinette...."let them eat cake!"

I am for business owner rights. The problem with discrimination is where does it stop?