Re: having kids....

[Lustral]

Good, thoughtful post , but I think it "depends".

1. Most people that adopt kids are doing it for honorable, decent reasons.
I respect and admire that kind of person.

(b) Some parents that have their own children wanted to bring a life into the world and raise it well.
That's also something I consider worthwhile and honorable.

2. Some parents want to have their own children for various ego driven, selfish reasons.
The most common being , wanting someone to take care of them when older.
Or, to carry on the family legacy aka genetic line. LOL, as if their genetics was so wonderful.

Cannot find da vinci post to qoute but...

1) Yeah, you may not want kids, they may be the result of an impulse (ie one night stand) or unwanted (ie have 3 kids already fuck another)..thing is, you're responsible and once a parent you get that responsibility immediately. You just get that feeling of devotion.

2) I would adopt kids if I could not have more and girlfriend wanted it. We have a house, we both have jobs and money, why not? Nurture >> nature re kids so long as kid is young I'd be fine.

[Raymondo]

It is absurd and uncommon to force political worldviews on children so why is it acceptable to force religious ones?

[Raymondo]

Children from religious families are less kind and more punitive than those from non-religious households

[Primemuscle]

I just skimmed the last couple of pages in this thread and didn't read more than a word or two from a couple of posts. It's a dead horse.

[ritch]

Was just watching "F for family" on Netlfix and thought of this thread!
Very funny cartoon.

[Master Blaster]

It would be interesting if we all were more interested in arguing our points rather than scoring points...

[Raymondo]

I Think the question that never gets asked regarding GOD's existence is "Why does it even matter?".  It's observably obvious that if their was a creative force that it doesn't intervene in human affairs, this being does not prevent the inherent human suffering that is part of every human beings life.  You will still fall ill, still get old, still suffer persistently until you enter the unknowable after you leave this existence.  Even if there was a god it has no influence on humanity, it is irrelevant.  Saying you believe in god is as meaningful as saying you believe in some unnamed planet in some unknown galaxy in some unknown parallel universe, who gives a fuck, life goes on regardless.

This is a good post I missed, so I will respond to it here even though it is slightly off topic.

What I find extremely absurd is the following. How is it possible that a being that exhibits:

1) Omnipotentence (has unlimited power and can do anything),
2) Omniscience (knows everything that has happened and will ever happen),
3) Omnipresence (is everywhere at the same time and permeates everything, like the Force in Star Wars),
4) Omnibenevolence (has unlimited capacity to do good),

cannot be perceived and its existence cannot be validated in any way whatsoever unless you choose to believe in its existence first?

Astronomers have recently presented proof of a huge 9th planet orbiting the Sun every 10,000 to 20,000 years. And yet, the most awesome being in the universe that ever existed or will ever exist, a being as present on Earth as oxygen, cannot be perceived unless you completely surrender your mind to the traditions of desert scribes that lived in Roman Palestine thousands of years ago. And that is just one religious tradition, the Abrahamic one. Other religious have their own rules.

[OB1]

...a being as present on Earth as oxygen, cannot be perceived...

The absence of oxygen can be perceived.
 

[galain]

If you're not sure you want to have kids, have a good look at the world around you.

Have a good look at the people you know in your life.

We, as a species, are fucking the planet royally. We have so little regard for where we live, we have ruined our home.

Do you want to bring your children into this?

I know good, kind generous people. I know more idiots who can only think of themselves, people whose lives are increasingly being dominated by social media and who can no longer hold a decent conversation or think independently, people who are becoming lazier and unhealthier both mentally and physically.

This will be the norm very soon.

Do you want to bring your children into this? Do you want your children to become this?

Fuck - I think I just sounded like Affeman....

[cephissus]

raymondo (with a page from TA's book) and da_vinci doing a lot of good work itt

MOS getting flustered

"LOL"

[Radical Plato]

This is a good post I missed, so I will respond to it here even though it is slightly off topic.

What I find extremely absurd is the following. How can a being that is:

1) Omnipotent (has unlimited power and can do anything),
2) Omniscient (knows everything that has happened and will ever happen),
3) Omnipresent (is everywhere at the same time and permeates everything, like the Force in Star Wars),
4) Omnibenevolent (has unlimited capacity to do good),

can not be perceived and its existence cannot be validated in any way whatsoever unless you choose to believe in its existence first?

Astronomers have recently presented proof of a huge 9th planet orbiting the Sun every 10,000 to 20,000 years. And yet, the most awesome being in the universe that ever existed or will ever exist, a being as present on Earth as oxygen, cannot be perceived unless you completely surrender your mind to the traditions of desert scribes that lived in Roman Palestine thousands of years ago. And that is just one religious tradition, the Abrahamic one. Other religious have their own rules.

Your post reminded me of a Christopher Hitchens quote.

"By trying to adjust to the findings that it once tried so viciously to ban and repress, religion has only succeeded in restating the same questions that undermined it in earlier epochs. What kind of designer or creator is so wasteful and capricious and approximate? What kind of designer or creator is so cruel and indifferent? And—most of all—what kind of designer or creator only chooses to “reveal” himself to semi-stupefied peasants in desert regions?"
―The Portable Atheist (Christopher Hitchens)

[Man of Steel]

This is a good post I missed, so I will respond to it here even though it is slightly off topic.

What I find extremely absurd is the following. How is it possible that a being that exhibits:

1) Omnipotentence (has unlimited power and can do anything),
2) Omniscience (knows everything that has happened and will ever happen),
3) Omnipresence (is everywhere at the same time and permeates everything, like the Force in Star Wars),
4) Omnibenevolence (has unlimited capacity to do good),

cannot be perceived and its existence cannot be validated in any way whatsoever unless you choose to believe in its existence first?

Astronomers have recently presented proof of a huge 9th planet orbiting the Sun every 10,000 to 20,000 years. And yet, the most awesome being in the universe that ever existed or will ever exist, a being as present on Earth as oxygen, cannot be perceived unless you completely surrender your mind to the traditions of desert scribes that lived in Roman Palestine thousands of years ago. And that is just one religious tradition, the Abrahamic one. Other religious have their own rules.

If God was to abide by your terms and give you an undeniable sign of his power......turn the sun green with purple polka dots, spell out "Hello Ray, I AM GOD" with the stars or whatever it is you require of him would you give your life to him then and there?

[OB1]

If God was to abide by your terms and give you an undeniable sign of his power......turn the sun green with purple polka dots, spell out "Hello Ray, I AM GOD" with the stars or whatever it is you require of him would you give your life to him then and there?

Give your life to someone/something?
Impossible.
You can't own life.
This life is just  borrowed.
And even then who would give his/her live away?
Only a fool obviously.
If you observe closely it isn't even "your" life.
There's nothing to give (away).

[Man of Steel]

Give your life to someone/something?
Impossible.
You can't own life.
This life is just  borrowed.
And even then who would give his/her live away?
Only a fool obviously.
If you observe closely it isn't even "your" life.
There's nothing to give (away).

I understand where you're coming from.

My question is posed from the Christian worldview.  So considering that, what would your answer be?

[OB1]

I understand where you're coming from.

My question is posed from the Christian worldview.  So considering that, what would your answer be?

Can't relate.

[Man of Steel]

Can't relate.

So that I'm clear.  When I ask you "if God were to give you whatever sign/evidence/verification you personally demand to prove his existence would you then become a believer and follow him in all you do" (which is a direct restatement of my previous question for the sake of clarity) you're unable to provide a "yes" or "no" response?  Is that what you're telling me?

[SF1900]

Give your life to someone/something?
Impossible.
You can't own life.
This life is just  borrowed.
And even then who would give his/her live away?
Only a fool obviously.
If you observe closely it isn't even "your" life.
There's nothing to give (away).

This is the issue: You would need to prove two things, in order to follow God: 1) that he actually exists, and 2) that he intervenes in the affairs of our every day lives, sends people to heaven and hell, etc. If God was proven to exist, but held no sway over the affairs of man (Deism), then why worship him? On the other hand, if point 2 also existed, would you then follow him?

Personally, Id have to think long and hard about my answer. I'd have to know A LOT more about this God, in order to come to a decision.

[Yamcha]

If I were God, I'd do this:

[OB1]

So that I'm clear.  When I ask you "if God were to give you whatever sign/evidence/verification you personally demand to prove his existence would you then become a believer and follow him in all you do" (which is a direct restatement of my previous question for the sake of clarity) you're unable to provide a "yes" or "no" response?  Is that what you're telling me?

This is a non-issue for me.
Therefore whether a "no" nor a "yes".
I know from experience there is just one "thing".

Everything is made of that one "thing". It encompasses everything.
Said "thing" appears to the mind as separate "things".
But All is One in reality.

Every form (material and spiritual and ... ) that exists began at one point in time to exist and must therefore cease eventually.
Therefore it is illusion.

I don't demand signs from illusions.
And I won't give "my life" to such illusions also.

HTH

[bigmc]

ob1 working his way up to 500 posts a day

things that make you go hmmm 

[OB1]

ob1 working his way up to 500 posts a day

things that make you go hmmm 

Let's see if i can break 500.
Should be no problem if I got the time.

[Man of Steel]

This is a non-issue for me.
Therefore whether a "no" nor a "yes".
I know from experience there is just one "thing".

Everything is made of that one "thing". It encompasses everything.
Said "thing" appears to the mind as separate "things".
But All is One in reality.

Every form (material and spiritual and ... ) that exists began at one point in time to exist and must therefore cease eventually.
Therefore it is illusion.

I don't demand signs from illusions.
And I won't give "my life" to such illusions also.

HTH

You just told me you can't relate to the Christian worldview and can't provide an answer, yet you can make absolute statements about God ("the spiritual")?

[da_vinci]

Saying "I believe and worship god" is equal to saying - "I believe and worship alcohol". Both makes a person feel better (artificially). If someone says - dude, you are merely trying to camouflage your inner issues with that, said person would go "What issues? I have no since I found alcohol. You should try too, and THEN you will understand that there IS hope!", and a sober person would just shake head, like usualy happens when trying to appeal to an alcoholic that he should stop drinking and start taking his life in his own hands, while he resists by saying "I feel great, why would I stop believing and worshiping something that finally allows me to feel at ease?".

[OB1]

You just told me you can't relate to the Christian worldview and can't provide an answer, yet you can make absolute statements about God ("the spiritual") something you can't describe?

It is not spiritual.
It is merely beyond.
It is one.

In the spiritual world ( just like in the material world ) things still appear separate from each other.
Although not as "dense" as in the material world.

And I won't give it a name.
Any name will limit the limitless.

[Man of Steel]

It is not spiritual.
It is merely beyond.
It is one.

In the spiritual world ( just like in the material world ) things still appear separate from each other.
Although not as "dense" as in the material world.

And I won't give it a name.
Any name will limit the limitless.

So God is not spiritual, but is beyond (or transcends).  Although, there is a spiritual world and a material world and it is one, but things in spiritual appear to separate from one another.  Although, the material world is more dense and you won't name it because a name will limit the limitless.

Two questions:

1) Is that correct?
2) What?