I the longrun, is natural bodybuilding too taxative on the endocrine system?

[Tha Grim Lifter]

You're overtraining. A big problem is trying to train like when you were young - not because of age - but because you are stronger and because you have trained longer you can put more stress on the muscle easier as you know what you are doing. You need to do less you also need to be aware you are hurting your nervous system every time you train and after 5-6 weeks you need 9-10 days off training to let it recover. That's a massive thing.

[cephissus]

how do you tell when 'the nervous system needs to recover'?

[Tha Grim Lifter]

how do you tell when 'the nervous system needs to recover'?

You can feel it. You feel irritable, overtrained, don't want to be in there, want to sleep more etc. Once you have trained a few years it should be every 6 weeks, maybe even sooner but my first few years I was a teenager so I didn't really feel it the same, plus you aren't doing as much damage with lighter weights and not the same intensity then.

Once you have 10 days rest you are bouncing off walls. It takes 10 days to recover. I knew this anyway from my experiences but if you want to read it elsewhere Ben Johnson's coach mentioned it a lot in his book, also said the Europeans were using that as a guideline too when training.

[_aj_]

You can feel it. You feel irritable, overtrained, don't want to be in there, want to sleep more etc. Once you have trained a few years it should be every 6 weeks, maybe even sooner but my first few years I was a teenager so I didn't really feel it the same, plus you aren't doing as much damage with lighter weights and not the same intensity then.

Once you have 10 days rest you are bouncing off walls. It takes 10 days to recover. I knew this anyway from my experiences but if you want to read it elsewhere Ben Johnson's coach mentioned it a lot in his book, also said the Europeans were using that as a guideline too when training.

You just described my current state: irritable, unhappy, beat up, want to sleep, but can't. I haven't taken more than 2 consecutive days off in 3 years  . I used to strive for one week out of 12 no weights but obviously forgot that.

[falco]

For me the major problem is muscle recovery. It's not unusuall to get flu like symptoms for days after leg day.
I know, it's stupid, i laugh about it also. I should stop squatting, but i can't.

[The Scott]

I did, right in my early years of training. I couldn't keep up with the flex magazines training routines. HIT worked for me.

Then give it another try. Tailor it to your needs but keep it reasonable. Go to the gym as little as is needed to produce the desired results. Rest and eat right. 

There is more to living than just lifting.  Today my session went well and I was a little stronger on some movements and a little less on others.  Total sets done today was 9.  I felt good.  I will now wait 48 to 72 hours before training again but at least I know that 192 hours off didn't hurt.

Good luck.

[Marty Champions]

i think my training makes me tired i think i will train more

good atitude falcon

[Griffith]

For me the major problem is muscle recovery. It's not unusuall to get flu like symptoms for days after leg day.
I know, it's stupid, i laugh about it also. I should stop squatting, but i can't.

Just have to take some time off and fully recover.

[cephissus]

You can feel it. You feel irritable, overtrained, don't want to be in there, want to sleep more etc. Once you have trained a few years it should be every 6 weeks, maybe even sooner but my first few years I was a teenager so I didn't really feel it the same, plus you aren't doing as much damage with lighter weights and not the same intensity then.

Once you have 10 days rest you are bouncing off walls. It takes 10 days to recover. I knew this anyway from my experiences but if you want to read it elsewhere Ben Johnson's coach mentioned it a lot in his book, also said the Europeans were using that as a guideline too when training.

If someone wants to train every day, do you think they need to periodize?

[Master Blaster]

I think as we get older, we will have alarming periods (hopefully very short term) where our testosterone is greatly reduced.

I think stress plays a roll, and hopefully periods where our circumstance is improved will reduce these results...

[Tha Grim Lifter]

You just described my current state: irritable, unhappy, beat up, want to sleep, but can't. I haven't taken more than 2 consecutive days off in 3 years  . I used to strive for one week out of 12 no weights but obviously forgot that.

You should take around 10 days off every 6 weeks or how often you are that tired. At your level 6 weeks.

It does more than restore the nervous system. Training builds up waste product in the body. When you come back after say 2 training sessions you will be leaner than before. You would have no stress on the body anymore holding excess fluid/waste and you would have done a few sessions so your body would be coming back fast.

Something I have also found which took me years to work out is after about 7-8 months of this you need a solid 2-3 weeks off. I can notice that for about a week at this point while training I get a energy surge, I think it's like the body giving one last boost as it's at its limits and when that goes I am completely drained. I had this first at 22 and I didn't really pick it because when it started I was starting a new job so I thought maybe that was why I was drained but it wasn't it.

Yes you can't really fall asleep easily when you are overtrained and don't worry about not training for 10 days you will end up looking better once you have the rest and come back. Your body will respond far better to what you are doing.

[Tha Grim Lifter]

If someone wants to train every day, do you think they need to periodize?

I don't think training every day at a level of intensity is any good for improvement. You should be aiming to break down the muscle then let it recover and overcompensate then do it again. The body needs rest. Realistically 3 days of weight training a week should be it.

I also don't think light days are worth shit, either break down the muscle or leave it.

[Mr Anabolic]

...making it shut down earlier than people who don't workout, bodybuilding style?

Just like eating too much sugars may shut down your pancreas?

    I bodybuild since a teenager and have experienced during two decades of training several periods of apparent test production shut down. Not related to steroid use. It happened after months of consistent training and inherent high cortisol levels. I have no data to backup this except regular blood work (that doesn't include testosterone levels) where everything was normal.
    I'm 39 and started TRT a couple of months ago, because last couple of years i have been dragging myself everyday, no energy, barely keeping up with my desk job and family needs. Working out again was a mirage. My 70 yo father had more stamina than me.

Ideas?

It's called age.

39 years old and on TRT already?  You're probably training too much.

Your major mistake was getting married and having kids.

[Mr Anabolic]

I don't think training every day at a level of intensity is any good for improvement. You should be aiming to break down the muscle then let it recover and overcompensate then do it again. The body needs rest. Realistically 3 days of weight training a week should be it.

I also don't think light days are worth shit, either break down the muscle or leave it.

I totally agree, but age/natty has a lot to do with it.  I train 3x a week... that plenty for someone who wants to look good, but is not a competitive bodybuilder.  I lift moderately heavy and do enough sets to get sore.  If you do that, training muscle groups 1x/week is more than enough.

[Tha Grim Lifter]

It's called age.

39 years old and on TRT already?  You're probably training too much.

Your major mistake was getting married and having kids.

He shouldn't be on TRT because the problem was overtraining. He just needs to let his system recover. If it wasn't all that there are some vitamins that massively help.

L-Arginine and Pycnogenol are fucking amazing they should be used before Viagra every time. They help thin the blood out, I didn't have issues with sex drive but that made a big difference anyway. There are other things too like Iron levels might be low, I also added Guarana because someone on here said it was good a few months ago and yes I felt that give me more energy.

To answer your other response, Dexter Jackson has trained 3 times a week for years. Dorian was 4, you think Dorian would look worse if he moved a few bodyparts to other days and only did 3 a week? You really don't need more juice or not, the body still needs to recover. The six days a week training is rubbish, it's all about what you do and the body needs to recover you can't just go hard every day, if you try to there's not real intensity there. I guarantee these guys who haven't taken a rest will be blown away by how much harder they go for weeks after the rest.

[Royalty]

Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system

[Radical Plato]

Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system

Sounds like a good excuse to blast/cruise until the big man in the sky comes a calling. 

[Tha Grim Lifter]

Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system

Can you define Long term. I cycled 4 years, longest on 6 months twice. Always came off for 6 weeks. I recovered and was no worse. Test levels were normal 3-4 months after clearing out (I know that isn't what you mean).

[Royalty]

Can you define Long term. I cycled 4 years, longest on 6 months twice. Always came off for 6 weeks. I recovered and was no worse. Test levels were normal 3-4 months after clearing out (I know that isn't what you mean).

You came off.

Some idiots don't have the courage to come off. Hence = shutdown

[falco]

Then give it another try. Tailor it to your needs but keep it reasonable. Go to the gym as little as is needed to produce the desired results. Rest and eat right. 

There is more to living than just lifting.  Today my session went well and I was a little stronger on some movements and a little less on others.  Total sets done today was 9.  I felt good.  I will now wait 48 to 72 hours before training again but at least I know that 192 hours off didn't hurt.

Good luck.

Right now i am training 2-3 times a week. Very low weights, high reps, nice pump. Due to my herniated discs i don't want to became the caucasian version of Ronnie Coleman.

[falco]

i think my training makes me tired i think i will train more

good atitude falcon

I don't want to became a lazy obese person Falcon.

[falco]

Just have to take some time off and fully recover.

I just took a year off recovery from my surgeries. I want to start training again. The problem is i am so out of shape, i get soreness just from miring' the weights.

[falco]

It's called age.

39 years old and on TRT already?  You're probably training too much.

Your major mistake was getting married and having kids.

I had to stop training due to a hearnia surgery. I believe that caused some reduction in test production, and now, trying to working out again was impossible without the hormones.
Maybe i stop TRT after 3 months to se how i feel without it.

[falco]

Long term Steroid usage completely shuts down certain aspects of the endocrine system

Yes. But the question i raise is the exact opposite:
Does training natural for decades too demanding on test production organs? High cortisol levels stimulate the body to produce high testosterone levels, after decades of this, are the testicles are worn out?

More... do test boosters suplements, like tribulus, zma, and the such ultimately kill the endocrine system?

[Royalty]

Yes. But the question i raise is the exact opposite:
Does training natural for decades too demanding on test production organs? High cortisol levels stimulate the body to produce high testosterone levels, after decades of this, are the testicles are worn out?

More... do test boosters suplements, like tribulus, zma, and the such ultimately kill the endocrine system?

Tyrosine helps curb a lot of the endocrine concerns that you have