Calories in Calories out. IIFYM dieting. Stop the ignorance.

[cephissus]

I give Eric credit for the tremendous display of insanity posting all words capitalized.  Do you think he types that way or cuts and pastes the comment from a word document where he has converted to all words capitalized? Mid this, true insanity and quite sad.

x2

I can't read a single post of his, don't know how others do it (...presuming anyone does?)

[Thin Lizzy]

So, have we found any current Olympic athletes who will be competing in Rio on a Ketogenic diet? I haven't. From Decathletes to Sprinters to Distance Runners, they all seem to be taking in Carbs.

I think the problem is that most sports require intense activity.

Now, if "Leisurely Walking" ever became an Olympic sport, then we might see Keto adapted athletes thrive.

[Anglo]

Not for me. I experimented with this last time I was cutting...did 4 weeks with a mixture of carbs, fats and proteins at around 2400 cals. Then switched to a keto type diet for 4 weeks, same calories, and saw a big difference in fat loss.

One's insulin sensitivity plays a key role in theamount of carbohydrates any individual can handle, some folk just look at white rice and it sends them off the scale. Not including the insulin dolls that frequent today's thong pagentry.

For most of the non athletic, sedentary, lazy-ass and aging population, practicing a ketogenic diet would be a very good idea.
 

[Anglo]

Everyone Before The Steroid Era Began Did It, No Problem. Steve Reeves And Reg Park, Looked Great Year Round, And No Drugs.

So What's Your Problem?

[Thin Lizzy]

One's insulin sensitivity plays a key role in theamount of carbohydrates any individual can handle, some folk just look at white rice and it sends them off the scale. Not including the insulin dolls that frequent today's thong pagentry.

For most of the non athletic, sedentary, lazy-ass and aging population, practicing a ketogenic diet would be a very good idea.
 

The idea that people who fit that description would stick to such a restrictive diet is a stretch at best.

[Anglo]

The idea that people who fit that description would stick to such a restrictive diet is a stretch at best.

Very true, most folk don't give a shit about what they eat, hence their obesity, diabetis and whatever other debilitating "lofestyle" conditions they may have.

Only the truely dedicated and enlightened could follow such a path 

[growing lad]

Wow, most idiotic comment on this post.

Being out there and having experience working with large numbers of clients tends to differentiate what actually works in the real world from some theoretical overly simplistic nonsense that may be suitable for some but a complete disaster for others.

The real world being people lie about what their eating
In controlled metabolic ward studies it shows true, not theoretical dicktard
Hence people should eat the diet that they can adhere to whilst getting adequate protein, don't have to be high carb and doesn't have to be low carb high fat.

[Anglo]

Some interesting low carbohydrate recipes

http://www.dietdoctor.com/

[cephissus]

So, have we found any current Olympic athletes who will be competing in Rio on a Ketogenic diet? I haven't. From Decathletes to Sprinters to Distance Runners, they all seem to be taking in Carbs.

I think the problem is that most sports require intense activity.

Now, if "Leisurely Walking" ever became an Olympic sport, then we might see Keto adapted athletes thrive.

oddly i see anecdotes from people on this board (go4it, wannabepro (i think)), and elsewhere (joe rogan podcast) who claim to have great energy in the gym on keto.  what do you think is going on here?  not really in ketosis?  or coasting on glycogen from refeeds?

i think the latter might be possible -- seems most "pro-keto" "athletes" do some sort of refeed.  a few years ago everyone talked about "carb cycling", now that's a term you don't hear much anymore.  maybe everyone just calls it "ketosis" instead.

[Thin Lizzy]

oddly i see anecdotes from people on this board (go4it, wannabepro (i think)), and elsewhere (joe rogan podcast) who claim to have great energy in the gym on keto.  what do you think is going on here?  not really in ketosis?  or coasting on glycogen from refeeds?

i think the latter might be possible -- seems most "pro-keto" "athletes" do some sort of refeed.  a few years ago everyone talked about "carb cycling", now that's a term you don't hear much anymore.  maybe everyone just calls it "ketosis" instead.

Who exactly are these "Pro Keto" athletes? The name that keeps popping up is Zack Bitter, an Ultra Runner, but, I've checked out his blog and he list carb drinks, soda and candies as his "fuel.":

Xendurance Fuel - 5 (5 scoops)
Xendurance Hydro-X (2 scoops)
Xendurance - Xtreme Endurance
Vespa Ultra Concentrate (3 packs)
Water and sports drink from aid staions
5 hard candies


Moreover, all the studies cited about Low carb athletic performance have the participants training at VO2 Max rates in the 60s. That's jogging pace. It's obvious that Phinney and Volek had no interest in seeing  how performance is affected at a high VO2 Max rate.

If you want to make a case for Keto, it sure isn't from an athletic performance standpoint.

Anecdotes are just talk. I'd rather study how world class athletes perform, and if the argument is that these athletes would be even better on a Keto diet, prove it, and don't come up with bullshit excuses about how no one will try it. If it truly increased performance there would be plenty of volunteers.

[FREAKgeek]

So, have we found any current Olympic athletes who will be competing in Rio on a Ketogenic diet? I haven't. From Decathletes to Sprinters to Distance Runners, they all seem to be taking in Carbs.

I think the problem is that most sports require intense activity.

Now, if "Leisurely Walking" ever became an Olympic sport, then we might see Keto adapted athletes thrive.

There are zero carb communities on the web, people have ran marathons on zero carb diets. They claim it's the best health decision they ever made. I don't do it, but just saying.

[Thin Lizzy]

There are zero carb communities on the web, people have ran marathons on zero carb diets. They claim it's the best health decision they ever made. I don't do it, but just saying.

A lot of people talk a good game on the Internet. If you assumed all of it is bullshit, you'd be right 90% of the time.

This guy, Jimmy Moore, wrote a book about Keto, has had a low carb Podcast for several years, hosts a low carb cruise every year and here's the result:

[Go 4 It]

Then you have athletes like Chad OchoCinco Johnson who ate Mcdonalds only 3 to 4 times a day his entire career, makes you wonder about all this diet bullshit..

[FREAKgeek]

A lot of people talk a good game on the Internet. If you assumed all of it is bullshit, you'd be right 90% of the time.

This guy, Jimmy Moore, wrote a book about Keto, has had a low carb Podcast for several years, hosts a low carb cruise every year and here's the result:

check this site out : https://zerocarbzen.com/

it looks dumb, but it has a lot of interesting articles, esp on getting vitamin c on a meat only diet

[cephissus]

Who exactly are these "Pro Keto" athletes? The name that keeps popping up is Zack Bitter, an Ultra Runner, but, I've checked out his blog and he list carb drinks, soda and candies as his "fuel."

Just.to be clear, by 'pro-keto athlete' I dont mean a professional athlete, performing at the highest level.  I just mean a keto-advocate who is reasonably accomplished -- people like go4it or Kyle Kingsbury, the former MMA fighter who talked about it on rogan podcast.

I'm curious because these people lift weights and do intense workouts -- I'm sure their power output exceeds 60% vo2max... So who to believe?  Seems like such an easy question to answer, but I've never met anyone in real life on ketosis who wasn't a fat slob, so I don't know...

The whole nutritional world is so full of bullshit, especially in connection with 'fitness', 'performance', 'longevity' and all that, it's hard to trust anyone.  Way too many people in this world trying to make a living by over promising on the power of 'X', whether that be nutrition, exercise, this that or the other.

[The True Adonis]

Just.to be clear, by 'pro-keto athlete' I dont mean a professional athlete, performing at the highest level.  I just mean a keto-advocate who is reasonably accomplished -- people like go4it or Kyle Kingsbury, the former MMA fighter who talked about it on rogan podcast.

I'm curious because these people lift weights and do intense workouts -- I'm sure their power output exceeds 60% vo2max... So who to believe?  Seems like such an easy question to answer, but I've never met anyone in real life on ketosis who wasn't a fat slob, so I don't know...

The whole nutritional world is so full of bullshit, especially in connection with 'fitness', 'performance', 'longevity' and all that, it's hard to trust anyone.  Way too many people in this world trying to make a living by over promising on the power of 'X', whether that be nutrition, exercise, this that or the other.

What was your caloric amount at your leanest and have you gained any weight since you increased calories.  Also what did you increase them to?

[cephissus]

What was your caloric amount at your leanest and have you gained any weight since you increased calories.  Also what did you increase them to?

2000-2500 at leanest, when i weighed around 165.  i've only weighed myself once in the past few months, but i was about 190.  cals ~4000-5000, but my training has changed.  thinking about doing a triathlon or ironman, hence the increased cals.

[drkaje]

Then you have athletes like Chad OchoCinco Johnson who ate Mcdonalds only 3 to 4 times a day his entire career, makes you wonder about all this diet bullshit..

Are you really comparing an elite athlete to bodybuilders?

[Thin Lizzy]

Just.to be clear, by 'pro-keto athlete' I dont mean a professional athlete, performing at the highest level.  I just mean a keto-advocate who is reasonably accomplished -- people like go4it or Kyle Kingsbury, the former MMA fighter who talked about it on rogan podcast.

I'm curious because these people lift weights and do intense workouts -- I'm sure their power output exceeds 60% vo2max... So who to believe?  Seems like such an easy question to answer, but I've never met anyone in real life on ketosis who wasn't a fat slob, so I don't know...

The whole nutritional world is so full of bullshit, especially in connection with 'fitness', 'performance', 'longevity' and all that, it's hard to trust anyone.  Way too many people in this world trying to make a living by over promising on the power of 'X', whether that be nutrition, exercise, this that or the other.

I didn't hear the Rogan Podcast with Kingsbury, but, he was on Jimmy Moore's Podcast, too and said he started Keto AFTER he retired from MMA which was only in 2014:


***
“There’s only one instance where I feel being in ketosis all the time hampers me and that’s with a single rep max effort. Any multiple rep attempt doesn’t seem to lack a low gear for energy while in ketosis.” — Kyle Kingsbury

AFTER completing his MMA career in 2014, Kyle decided to focus on optimizing his nutrition as a means for improving his athletics. That’s what led him to study and implement the low-carb, high-fat, ketogenic diet into his routine. Now he spreads the word about living better through lifestyle choices. Listen in as Kyle and I discuss his progression as an athlete, what his old diet looked like compared to how he eats today, his views on and uses of fasting, the practical application of ketogenic diets in athletic performance, and all the amazing benefits that come from eating keto. It’s great hearing from someone like Kyle who is a fabulous advocate for nutritional ketosis.
******

I did hear Mark Sisson on Rogan's Podcast. Sisson made a claim that future record holders in the Marathon will be Ketogenic Athletes. Of course, with Sisson's background and name value, he could train this new generation of Keto Super Athletes, but instead chooses to hawk "Primal Mayonaise."

My experience with people who continually claim to be on Atkins is the same as yours: They're all fat fucks with a lot of excuses.

[Erik C]

 

My experience with people who continually claim to be on Atkins is the same as yours: They're all fat fucks with a lot of excuses.

Don't Confuse What Has Become The Atkins Diet With Keto. Dr. Atkins Sold His Name And Diet To A Corporation, And Thereby Lost All Control Over Both. He Tried To Get The Contract Overturned In Court, But Lost. So The Corporation Started Selling A Whole Lot Of Horse Shit Carb Products, And Promoted The Shit Out Of The "Net Carbs" Nonsense That Made The Diet Worthless. That Corporation Was Bought Out After Atkins Died, And Now Is Part Of A Huge Snack (Junk) Food Company. Lots Of People Think The New Version Of Atkins Diet, Is The Same As The Diet He First Started Promoting In The Early 1970s. It's Not!

[Simple Simon]

Don't Confuse What Has Become The Atkins Diet With Keto. Dr. Atkins Sold His Name And Diet To A Corporation, And Thereby Lost All Control Over Both. He Tried To Get The Contract Overturned In Court, But Lost. So The Corporation Started Selling A Whole Lot Of Horse Shit Carb Products, And Promoted The Shit Out Of The "Net Carbs" Nonsense That Made The Diet Worthless. That Corporation Was Bought Out After Atkins Died, And Now Is Part Of A Huge Snack (Junk) Food Company. Lots Of People Think The New Version Of Atkins Diet, Is The Same As The Diet He First Started Promoting In The Early 1970s. It's Not!

Do you have evidence of that, I cant find anything about it?

[Erik C]

Do you have evidence of that, I cant find anything about it?

I Heard Gary Null Talking About It. The Judge Also Prohibited Atkins From Bad Mouthing The Company In Public, As The Company Paid Him Well, And They Didn't Want His Diet's Reputation, That They Bought, Sullied, By Him Denouncing It, As He Was Intending To Do. The Judge Also Sealed The Court Records. Dr. Atkins And Gary Null Were Friends, Even Though Their Philosophies Were Quite Different.

[Thin Lizzy]

Blah blah blah. It's just talk on the Internet

The Keto Gurus have been running their mouths and citing meaningless studies for years with no performances to show for it:

Eliud Kilpchoge is someone who actually performs. He's the top Marathon Runner in the world and here's how he eats:

“On a training day I will have tea and bread in the morning. For lunch or dinner I like to have ugali (a starchy, energy-dense Kenyan staple) with some protein from eggs or meat. On the evening before a race I have rice, spaghetti or ugali."

But, I'm sure he'd be much faster if he just dropped the Ugali and started pouring Coconut Oil on his eggs and heavy cream on his meat.

[Erik C]

Blah blah blah. It's just talk on the Internet

The Keto Gurus have been running their mouths and citing meaningless studies for years with no performances to show for it:

Eliud Kilpchoge is someone who actually performs. He's the top Marathon Runner in the world and here's how he eats:

“On a training day I will have tea and bread in the morning. For lunch or dinner I like to have ugali (a starchy, energy-dense Kenyan staple) with some protein from eggs or meat. On the evening before a race I have rice, spaghetti or ugali."

But, I'm sure he'd be much faster if he just dropped the Ugali and started pouring Coconut Oil on his eggs and heavy cream on his meat.

The Vast Majority Of Top Athletes Are Has Beens, By The Time They Are Thirty. So I Therefore Suggest To You, That Their Diets Are Not Optimal For Long Term Health, Strength And Vitality, With Their Short Term Athletic Careers As Living Proof Of That. According to the NFL Players Union, The Average Life Span Of An NFL Player Is 58 years.

[Go 4 It]

Are you really comparing an elite athlete to bodybuilders?

I'm comparing humans with humans, I work with around 1000 employees, lots of my closest friends are black, I see what these guys eat on a daily basis and it boggles my mind, I'm talking a breakfast of cheese eggs, bacon, hash browns covered in ketchup, pancakes with loads of syrup, washing it down with a sugary juice, and these guys stay ripped...don't even train, just pushups in their cabin and sex with as many girls possible, so I think nutrition can definitely help, but I think what it ultimately boils down to is genes..