Author Topic: Trump = Winning  (Read 1219454 times)

B_B_C

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6125 on: June 01, 2024, 08:27:12 AM »
C'mon man - this doesn't smell bad to you?
almost as smelly as the loose Cannon in Florida
c

deadz

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6126 on: June 01, 2024, 12:17:23 PM »
almost as smelly as the loose Cannon in Florida
Just stay home on 11/5 if you are even an American.🇺🇸
T

illuminati

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6127 on: June 01, 2024, 12:30:12 PM »
"Even liberal legal analysts have admitted that the case against Trump was unprecedented and would not have been brought against anyone other than Trump.

CNN legal analyst Elie Honig recently wrote that there should be concern over a judge being appointed (not randomly selected) who is not just a Biden donor but someone who “has earmarked donations for ‘resisting the Republican Party and Donald Trump’s radical right-wing legacy.’ ”

Adding to these concerns is the movement of the third-highest official in the Biden Justice Department to the staff of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg to build the case against Trump.

Before joining the case, Matthew Colangelo was also paid by the Democratic National Committee for “political consulting.”

So Trump was convicted in a trial with a Biden donor judge, who has a daughter who is a major Democratic operative, a lead prosecutor previously paid as a DNC political consultant and a jury selected in a district that voted roughly 90% against Trump.

The trial itself was a travesty.

Even after sitting in the courtroom watching the trial and the verdict, I still have no idea what Trump was convicted of in the case.

The charges were built on a dead misdemeanor barred with the passage of the statute of limitations.

It was zapped back into life by alleging that the falsification of business records occurred to unlawfully influence the 2016 presidential election.

Merchan told the jury members that they did not have to agree on what those unlawful means may have been.

Specifically, he allowed them to base their verdict on any one of three vaguely defined crimes of a federal election violation, falsification of business records or taxation violations.

Thus, the jury could have divided 4-4-4 on what actually occurred but the verdict was still treated as unanimous by Merchan to convict Trump."

If the above is all correct how can anyone think that trail was right & fair.
Totally Fucking wrong. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Grape Ape

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6128 on: June 01, 2024, 12:52:19 PM »
Illuminati, good sir - read three posts above yours lol.
Y

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6129 on: June 01, 2024, 01:04:31 PM »
Just stay home on 11/5 if you are even an American.🇺🇸

Is that what you plan to do?  Makes sense since Trumpy already told his supporters not to vote.

Grape Ape

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6130 on: June 01, 2024, 01:21:30 PM »
when did the republican party become anti big corporation?

Do you actually have any valid points that you can back up or it is all just stupid shit one liners from now on?
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Grape Ape

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6131 on: June 01, 2024, 01:30:49 PM »
Mr Trump is likely to be the next president so knowing whither his party is anti big business is relevant despite you reacting defensively.

I never said what you implied.
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deadz

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6132 on: June 01, 2024, 01:32:29 PM »
Is that what you plan to do?  Makes sense since Trumpy already told his supporters not to vote.
I will be at home……mail in ballot.
T

Grape Ape

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6133 on: June 01, 2024, 03:37:25 PM »
and you avoided the question

I never said the Republican party was anti big corporation, so why would you ask me that?

And I'm sure you know where the right leans on big business.
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Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6134 on: June 01, 2024, 03:53:23 PM »
It's all the same thing.

Right. Each of the 34 charges against Trump relates to separate/individual checks, invoices and vouchers generated to reimburse Cohen.

Str8Flex1n

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6135 on: June 01, 2024, 03:55:39 PM »
You just described the Democrats perfectly.

The party that used to be for free speech, anti big corporation and anti government control threw it all out the window because they hate Trump.

Both sides are doing this by the way. It's not a "democrats vs republicans" debate. Both sides abandoned their principles because of Donald Trump.

Primemuscle

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6136 on: June 01, 2024, 03:56:49 PM »
I will be at home……mail in ballot.

Same here. Mailing it back the same day it arrives. Assuming you are voting for Trump, I was under the impression he does not approve of the mail in ballot system. Do you have the option of voting in person? If so, you should do this so as not to disappoint Mr. Trump. LOL!

B_B_C

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6137 on: June 01, 2024, 04:34:53 PM »
I never said the Republican party was anti big corporation, so why would you ask me that?

And I'm sure you know where the right leans on big business.


I know that pre maga right leaned on big business but given the antipathy to some big corporations this no longer seems to be a given
c

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6138 on: June 01, 2024, 05:38:55 PM »
I will be at home……mail in ballot.

Mail in for me as well.

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6139 on: June 01, 2024, 05:42:44 PM »
Same here. Mailing it back the same day it arrives. Assuming you are voting for Trump, I was under the impression he does not approve of the mail in ballot system. Do you have the option of voting in person? If so, you should do this so as not to disappoint Mr. Trump. LOL!

If he wants to avoid disappointing El Lardo, then he won’t vote at all.   :D

Trumpy has told his supporter for the past couple of years to not bother to vote in the election. 

deadz

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6140 on: June 02, 2024, 02:15:27 PM »
Same here. Mailing it back the same day it arrives. Assuming you are voting for Trump, I was under the impression he does not approve of the mail in ballot system. Do you have the option of voting in person? If so, you should do this so as not to disappoint Mr. Trump. LOL!
Not an Election Day polls guy. Trump will get a nice dark bubble filled in.
T

OzmO

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6141 on: June 03, 2024, 10:50:02 AM »
C'mon man - this doesn't smell bad to you?

I don't doubt people have made it their mission to get Trump.  And some are using everything at their disposal in some ways that can be considered unethical or unfair but are they circumventing the law to prosecute him?  He wouldn't be in this mess if he hadn't falsified business records, simple as that.

I think it's overkill to make this a felony. 

The charges against Donald Trump in the hush money case were elevated from misdemeanors to felonies based on the argument that the alleged falsification of business records was done in furtherance of another crime. Specifically, prosecutors contended that the payments were made to influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election by concealing negative information, which could be considered a violation of campaign finance laws. By linking the alleged falsification to an intent to commit or conceal another crime, the charges could be escalated to felony status under New York law.   

In the U.S. justice system, it is generally permissible for a jury to convict based on multiple theories of a crime as long as they all pertain to the same charge. This means jurors can agree a crime was committed even if they have different opinions on the specifics, provided those specifics all constitute a violation of the same law. However, this can be contentious, especially if the jury's instructions are seen as too vague or allowing for overly broad interpretations of the law, potentially raising issues on appeal.

This may be appealed, although I am hearing its not likely.

But aside from this trial and its felony conviction, Trump seems to have falsified business records trying to pay off Daniels and hide it because of the election.  Is that in doubt?

Dos Equis

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6142 on: June 03, 2024, 03:36:48 PM »
How does the judge in this case influence a jury trial?  They found him guilty on 34 charges in 9 1/2 hours.  Trump either broke the law or he didn’t.  Was what Trump did not a crime?   

The judge can hate Trump.  What difference exactly would he have had or had in this trial if the law is clear and the case is tried and determined by 12 jurors?  12 who all agreed he was guilty. Not 1 disagreed.

The judge is the one who decided to let in or preclude evidence, like letting Daniels testify about what sexual positions they allegedly used and whether Trump wore a condom.  And precluding Brad Smith from testifying.  And saying if Trump testified the prosecution could bring up all his other civil and criminal cases.  And instructing the jury on the law. 

No, what Trump did wasn't a crime.  You don't even know what he was found guilty of.  None of us do. It was an alleged conspiracy to falsify business records by using a drop down menu on accounting software, which categorized the payments to Cohen as legal expenses.  Apparently, the software didn't have an option for "hush money to a porn actress."  But the falsification of records had to be done in furtherance of another crime.  We don't know what the "other crime" is.  It's insane. 

Did you read the links I posted in response to your earlier post, especially about Arthur Anderson?  You should.  Twelve jurors found them guilty of a crime that didn't exist.  The trial judge agreed.  The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed.  The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously disagreed.  So the fact twelve jurors found something does not necessarily mean it was correct. 

loco

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6143 on: June 03, 2024, 08:04:04 PM »
Trump team raised $141 million in May, as criminal trial fuels donations

Mon, June 3, 2024

The campaign said a quarter of the donors in May were first-time contributors this cycle and pointed to Trump’s criminal trial in New York and conviction on 34 felony counts as a driver of the donations. The campaign previously had announced bringing in $53 million online in the 24 hours after his conviction last week, and campaign officials on Monday said that one-day surge accounted for more than a third of the total May haul.

The campaign also said that organizations supporting Trump raised an additional $150 million in May.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-team-raised-141-million-214406768.html


Str8Flex1n

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6144 on: June 03, 2024, 08:23:32 PM »
I wonder what the results for the other trials will be. One of the cases I see ( classified documents) has absolutely zero weight & is bullshit. The Georgia case is valid. The fake electors scheme was 100% an effort to overturn the election results & Trump should get time for that. The civil fraud case is also valid. The Federal election interference case is half & half.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6145 on: June 04, 2024, 12:36:30 AM »
Trump team raised $141 million in May, as criminal trial fuels donations

Mon, June 3, 2024

The campaign said a quarter of the donors in May were first-time contributors this cycle and pointed to Trump’s criminal trial in New York and conviction on 34 felony counts as a driver of the donations. The campaign previously had announced bringing in $53 million online in the 24 hours after his conviction last week, and campaign officials on Monday said that one-day surge accounted for more than a third of the total May haul.

The campaign also said that organizations supporting Trump raised an additional $150 million in May.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-team-raised-141-million-214406768.html


CNN and MSNBC are flipping out over this.

OzmO

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6146 on: June 04, 2024, 06:37:29 AM »
The judge is the one who decided to let in or preclude evidence, like letting Daniels testify about what sexual positions they allegedly used and whether Trump wore a condom.  And precluding Brad Smith from testifying.  And saying if Trump testified the prosecution could bring up all his other civil and criminal cases.  And instructing the jury on the law. 

No, what Trump did wasn't a crime.  You don't even know what he was found guilty of.  None of us do. It was an alleged conspiracy to falsify business records by using a drop down menu on accounting software, which categorized the payments to Cohen as legal expenses.  Apparently, the software didn't have an option for "hush money to a porn actress."  But the falsification of records had to be done in furtherance of another crime.  We don't know what the "other crime" is.  It's insane. 

Did you read the links I posted in response to your earlier post, especially about Arthur Anderson?  You should.  Twelve jurors found them guilty of a crime that didn't exist.  The trial judge agreed.  The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed.  The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously disagreed.  So the fact twelve jurors found something does not necessarily mean it was correct.

None of what the Judge did is usual, especially in complex legal issues.  Judges use guidelines to exclude expert testimony ensuring that it contributes meaningfully to the case.   Excluding expert testimony, particularly when it involves interpretations of the law, is not uncommon. It coincides with judicial practices aimed at maintaining fair and focused trials.


Quote
No, what Trump did wasn't a crime.  You don't even know what he was found guilty of.  None of us do.

Donald Trump was found guilty of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in connection with hush money payments to porn star Stormy Daniels. The charges were from payments made before the 2016 election to prevent Daniels from going public with her claims of a sexual encounter with Trump. THese payments were later reimbursed to Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, and falsely recorded as legal expenses in Trump's business records.

The prosecution argued that these falsified records were part of a scheme to illegally influence the 2016 election by covering up the payments, which violated campaign finance laws and tax regulations. The jury found that Trump acted with fraudulent intent and falsified the records to conceal another crime—namely, the violation of New York state election laws by promoting his candidacy through unlawful means

This is what the jury found Trump guilty of.  A jury the defense had a hand in picking.  A jury that likely heard some of your arguments but still yet found Donald Trump guilty.


Dos Equis

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6147 on: June 04, 2024, 11:41:41 AM »
None of what the Judge did is usual, especially in complex legal issues.  Judges use guidelines to exclude expert testimony ensuring that it contributes meaningfully to the case.   Excluding expert testimony, particularly when it involves interpretations of the law, is not uncommon. It coincides with judicial practices aimed at maintaining fair and focused trials.


Donald Trump was found guilty of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in connection with hush money payments to porn star Stormy Daniels. The charges were from payments made before the 2016 election to prevent Daniels from going public with her claims of a sexual encounter with Trump. THese payments were later reimbursed to Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, and falsely recorded as legal expenses in Trump's business records.

The prosecution argued that these falsified records were part of a scheme to illegally influence the 2016 election by covering up the payments, which violated campaign finance laws and tax regulations. The jury found that Trump acted with fraudulent intent and falsified the records to conceal another crime—namely, the violation of New York state election laws by promoting his candidacy through unlawful means

This is what the jury found Trump guilty of.  A jury the defense had a hand in picking.  A jury that likely heard some of your arguments but still yet found Donald Trump guilty.

This is all wrong.  Be careful using that AI stuff.   :)

Regarding the judge and Brad Smith, this is what I posted in another thread:

Trump convicted of a victimless "crime" in a kangaroo court.  Our country is so screwed. 

Some of the biggest problems I have with this:

1.  The lead prosecutor Matthew Colangelo was a Biden surrogate.  He was the no. 3 man at the DOJ, appointed by Biden.  Left that job to join the Manhattan district attorney's office and head up this prosecution.  An enormous step down career wise.  In other words, Biden sent one of his top political appointees to try and put Biden's chief political rival in prison.  A legitimate media would be all over this.

2.  Even after the jury verdict, we don't know what the underlying crime was.  It was not in the indictment.  The judge didn't require the prosecution to disclose it before the case started.  The judge gave the jury three options on what the underlying crime could be, and told them they didn't even have to unanimously agree.  Because the defense was forced to give closing argument first, the first time we even got any clarity on the alleged underlying crime was during the prosecution's closing argument, with no chance for Trump to respond.  The jury verdict does not specify the underlying crime.  This is the worst violation of due process I have ever seen.

3.  One of the alleged underlying crimes was supposedly an improper campaign contribution.  The judge refused to allow Bradley Smith to testify and explain what constitutes an improper campaign contribution.  He is the former head of the FEC and Clinton appointee.  Then the judge let in evidence that Cohen pleaded guilty to an FEC violation and that David Pecker got a deal with prosecutors to not charge him with an FEC violation in exchange for his testimony.  Then refused to allow evidence that the FEC and DOJ investigated Trump over this and refused to charge him.  This left the obvious impression that Trump must be guilty of an FEC violation. 

There is more, but those are some of the most glaring to me.   

Regarding what Trump was convicted of, you do not know what the underlying crime was or what the jury found the underlying crime was.  This is the law Trump was accused of violating:

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime
or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/175.10

Here is a copy of the indictment.  Note that it does not identify the "other crime." 
https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf

Here is the jury's decision/verdict form.  Note that it does not identify the "other crime." 
https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/Trump-Verdict-Sheet.pdf

So this comment is plainly wrong: "The jury found that Trump acted with fraudulent intent and falsified the records to conceal another crime—namely, the violation of New York state election laws by promoting his candidacy through unlawful means" 

That comment is not supported by the indictment, the judge's instructions, or the jury verdict form. 


deadz

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6148 on: June 04, 2024, 03:09:17 PM »
T

OzmO

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Re: Trump = Winning
« Reply #6149 on: June 04, 2024, 04:43:46 PM »
This is all wrong.  Be careful using that AI stuff.   :)

Regarding the judge and Brad Smith, this is what I posted in another thread:

Regarding what Trump was convicted of, you do not know what the underlying crime was or what the jury found the underlying crime was.  This is the law Trump was accused of violating:

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime
or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/175.10

Here is a copy of the indictment.  Note that it does not identify the "other crime." 
https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf

Here is the jury's decision/verdict form.  Note that it does not identify the "other crime." 
https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/Trump-Verdict-Sheet.pdf

So this comment is plainly wrong: "The jury found that Trump acted with fraudulent intent and falsified the records to conceal another crime—namely, the violation of New York state election laws by promoting his candidacy through unlawful means" 

That comment is not supported by the indictment, the judge's instructions, or the jury verdict form.

AI can be occasionally wrong.  Usually about a minor detail.  How is it wrong here?

Judges can bar testimony for various reasons.  Judges have guidelines to follow.  Judges have done this in the past.

I doubt a jury of 12, 4 of which are lawyers were so manipulated that they convicted Trump on unknown charges. Maybe it will come out in more detail in the coming days.

I do agree with you.  The Democrats are straight-up going after him and using whatever means necessary.  But so far, it seems to be within the law, if not Trump should win on appeal.    I only hope that same shit gets done when the Dems turn comes, within the law of course.