IFBB Pro League & NPC vs. IFBB Amateur & International

[dj181]

The question is why is it taking so long.

good q

guess its cos as doc Blakley told me years ago "YOU are your own worst enemy"

meaning i sabatoge and fuck myself up regulary

i play around with shit that dont work for me like all orals and shit injects like mast, test, eq

the only compounds i respond to are 19-nors so i just gotta stay focused on them and not jump to other worthless shit

think ill be able to stick to deca for a good 12-20 weeks and that should bring me to fulfill gods predained destiny pour moi ie. ,, if you could add more kilograms.. about 5-10kg really that's all you need.. you will look amazing 😎

[Simple Simon]

good q

guess its cos as doc Blakley told me years ago "YOU are your own worst enemy"

meaning i sabatoge and fuck myself up regulary

i play around with shit that dont work for me like all orals and shit injects like mast, test, eq

the only compounds i respond to are 19-nors so i just gotta stay focused on them and not jump to other worthless shit

think ill be able to stick to deca for a good 12-20 weeks and that should bring me to fulfill gods predained destiny pour moi ie. ,, if you could add more kilograms.. about 5-10kg really that's all you need.. you will look amazing 😎

 

[dj181]

 

at least i am honest

i guess i could put it better by saying the only compounds that i respond favorably too

someone on 15's site challanged me to run dbol @ 50 mg for 12 weeks and add 50 pounds to my bench from it and then come back and tell him i didnt get a favorable response

[Simple Simon]

at least i am honest

i guess i could put it better by saying the only compounds that i respond favorably too

someone on 15's site challanged me to run dbol @ 50 mg for 12 weeks and add 50 pounds to my bench from it and then come back and tell him i didnt get a favorable response

I suppose you ignored him as well...

[dj181]

I suppose you ignored him as well...

how'd you know 

i dont follow, I..... LEAD😚

[Kwon]

DISGUSTED, , I  gotta disagree with ya and I do believe that a hell of a lot of people are interested regarding the process and the eventual outcome of this subject matter.

Although it has no effect on my personal life, I find it to be more interesting than who will be winning next years’s Olympia events.

I was one of the usual suspects who was involved in the decision making process when we made the initial association agreement with Joe and Ben Weider  which became a vital part of competitive bodybuilding history … and I think that whats going on now is even of more importance to competitors and fans and others who are actively involved.

I think that we wil soon see that history does in fact repeat itself in one form or another.

Thanks, Dis,    Stunt

Cool!

[Kwon]

DISGUSTED, , I  gotta disagree with ya and I do believe that a hell of a lot of people are interested regarding the process and the eventual outcome of this subject matter.

Although it has no effect on my personal life, I find it to be more interesting than who will be winning next years’s Olympia events.

I was one of the usual suspects who was involved in the decision making process when we made the initial association agreement with Joe and Ben Weider  which became a vital part of competitive bodybuilding history … and I think that whats going on now is even of more importance to competitors and fans and others who are actively involved.

I think that we wil soon see that history does in fact repeat itself in one form or another.

Thanks, Dis,    Stunt

Cool!

[stuntmovie]

Nothing is official here!  And no one on the “inside” has contributed to anything mentioned below..

The following is just a collection of random thoughts regarding the possible outcomes of this present IFBB PRO vs IFBB INTERNATIONAL situation.

The principal players as of this moment are:

Jim Manion as President of the  present IFBB Pro League and the NPC.

Rafael Santoja as President of the IFBB International .

Wayne DeMillia as the USA representative of IFBB International.

And …. Arnold who is involved with the promotion of worldwide IFBB events.

And possibly Lee Thompson.

The big question of the day is, “Who will Arnold decide to support??”

Jimi’s side? (Possibly.)
Rafael’s side? (Possibly)
Both sides? (Most unlikely)

And it is interesting to note that neither side will accept the other side’s athletes as professionally qualified for either side’s pro events.

This fact alone opens the door of opportunity for a promoter outside of both sides of the IFBB!

If such a promoter decided to promote a professional contest in which  a pro’s affiliation with the IFBB Pro League or with the IFBB International was not a requirement.

It could be called  “The Flat Earth Contest”.

Such  a contest would allow the best of both organizations to compete as a group to decide who is the ultimate contender worldwide.

Here’s a wild guess but is it possible that Lee Thompson is thinking about this possibility already?

Any other possibilities out there?

[stuntmovie]

Once again ... No inside info here and one or more of you GetBiggers may be able to elaborate with more updated info ... but .... it is my understanding that Arnold will be associated with both Rafael (IFBB International) and Jim (IFBB Pro League) depending on the location in which one of his six world-wide events is held.

This may conflict with the NPC's statement/decision to only accept IFBB Pro League qualified professionals to compete in the IFBB Pro League Olympia events.

Or am I misunderstanding something here!?

[mphgrove]

Someone like Arnold has the clout to play the middle. Very few competitors would be afraid to enter Arnold's shows for fear of retaliation, and would the IFBB Pro League stick to its guns and punish an Arnold International winner? Maybe. There is bound to be various levels of confusion and playing both sides everywhere in this. What may change the equation is if the US based IFBB truly starts fielding a lot of successful pro qualifiers around the world. That is exactly what they are attempting to do. Will these shows be broadly competitive and successful and in enough places? Who knows? Wayne D can offer a strong counterweight.

Lawyers aren't going to have much to do with it. Where are they going to argue their case? At the United Nations? Delaware?

[stuntmovie]

MPH, Thanks! Good response but here's my retaliation.

Arnold may have the 'clout' but when rules are established ... what's good for one ... is good for all.

One solution we may all be seeing is .....

1. The IFBB Pro League under the supervision of Jim Manion will make a big change and allow all IFBB International pro winners to enter the IFBB Pro League Olympia.

I honestly don't see that happening!

2. One or the other IFBB organizations may tell Arnold to make a decision one way or another to support the IFBB International or the IFBB Pro League ... but not both.

I hate to say it but #2 just might be the best solution.

And .....

I find your lawyer comment to be interesting, but I have no idea how an international incident such as this would be presented to a judge in a court of law.

But I do think that a good number of lawyers on all sides are presently involved...  with most of them presently saying, "Just keep your mouth shut!" ... and getting a nice pay-day for that simple advice.

Thanks for your interest and intelligent comments, MPH.

[dj181]

dim canyon

[mphgrove]

So, under Solution 2 above, how exactly does one or the other side force Arnold to choose a side if he doesn't want to choose a side? Tell him he cannot rent a venue and hold a show in Spain? Declare that there will no longer be an Arnold Classic in Columbus, Ohio? Really? And not much lawyers can do about it. The only true method of control is allowing or banning specific competitors from specific shows. This can ultimately be a powerful factor. But also a nightmare to manage as well as a downer for competitors and fans with potential public relations consequences. Another factor: eventually Arnold and Manion and Santoja won't be around any more (all three over 70 or 65 for sure?). What future players?

[stuntmovie]

MPH, In response to your intelligent questions,  here is my half-assed intelligent response…..

Q. How exactly does one or the other side force Arnold to choose a side if he doesn't want to choose a side?

A. One side or the other could just refuse to sanction his event. But I don’t think that either side wants to give up a good contest. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

Q. Who will replace Arnold, Manion, and Santoya upon their expiration date?

A. Good question but impossible for me even to make an intelligent guesstimate. But I’m sure that there are a few individuals anxiously waiting on the sidelines.

[Joe Pietaro]

Arnold played it perfectly and is supporting both side: Three shows with Raphael Santoja (Africa, Europe, South America) and two with Jim Manion (USA, Australia).

[stuntmovie]

Joe, With Arnold in the middle, I don't think he had any other option .... But has anyone on either side of the IFBB made an official announcement about this?

And will other event promoters be allowed to do likewise?

I assume that Arnold's IFBB International pro qualifying contenders will NOT be officially qualified to enter the OLYMPIA but will only be eligible to compete within the IFBB International's World Championships

I am not sure if the above is correct but if it is correct it opens
a  door of opportunity for an outside promoter to initiate a contest in which the 'champions' within both IFBB organizations can compete against each other to determine who is the Best of the Best!

Could it be that such a contest will be initiated with the winner receiving a million dollar check all wrapped up in a plastic trophy?!

[dj181]

dim canyon

lulz

[Vince B]

Judging by the lack of much response on Getbig it appears that 'nobody cares'.

Bodybuilding has become more popular = more profit. This fact is behind the power struggle.

Where is the sport? Where are the elections? Can Manion be removed?

The champion bodybuilders are sheep and never make any serious group decisions....thus, Manion and other businessmen can control them.

We will get more of the same crap because that is exactly what they and the fans deserve.

[mphgrove]

It is conceivable that some off the US IFBB promoters might be worried about cutting off your nose to spite your face here. Pro shows in the big airport cities like NY, Chicago, Orlando get competitors flying in from a lot of different countries. Sometime a third to half the lineup in a given category are foreigners. If these competitors are banned all of a sudden, depth of competition (and registrations and profits) both will be impacted. On the other hand, most US promoters are loyalist to IFBB Pro League.

[TheAnimal]

Judging by the lack of much response on Getbig it appears that 'nobody cares'.

Bodybuilding has become more popular = more profit. This fact is behind the power struggle.

Where is the sport? Where are the elections? Can Manion be removed?

The champion bodybuilders are sheep and never make any serious group decisions....thus, Manion and other businessmen can control them.

We will get more of the same crap because that is exactly what they and the fans deserve.

This.

[IRON CROSS]

Simple formula for IFBB haters: go to NABBA, INBA,WABBA,........................

[mphgrove]

Joe, With Arnold in the middle, I don't think he had any other option .... But has anyone on either side of the IFBB made an official announcement about this?

And will other event promoters be allowed to do likewise?

I assume that Arnold's IFBB International pro qualifying contenders will NOT be officially qualified to enter the OLYMPIA but will only be eligible to compete within the IFBB International's World Championships

I am not sure if the above is correct but if it is correct it opens
a  door of opportunity for an outside promoter to initiate a contest in which the 'champions' within both IFBB organizations can compete against each other to determine who is the Best of the Best!

Could it be that such a contest will be initiated with the winner receiving a million dollar check all wrapped up in a plastic trophy?!

Speaking of pro qualifying competitors, here's a question. Have they historically been able to use their IFBB International registration pro card to enter Pro League events or have they always had to pay for 2 pro card registrations? (and visa versa). If they could use either card in the past and now are told they need to buy two different pro cards both of which say IFBB Pro on them, they certainly won't understand. Those registrations are expensive!

With competitors gaining pro status right and left, sale of the pro cards is one important component of how these organizations make their money.

[stuntmovie]

MPH, You asked another interesting question but to the best of my knowledge a competitor has to earn his IFBB Pro Card by placing in an IFBB Pro Qualifying contest and cannot purchase an IFBB Pro card simply because he won an IFBB International contest …. but I have to ASSUME that prior to this IFBB/IFBB conflict …. those individuals who possessed an IFBB International Pro Card were eligible to enter the Olympia events.

Do you have any idea how much it cost to maintain an IFBB Pro Card each year and how many pros renew that card each year?

I'm guessing $300 per year but that figure could be wrong.

[Vince B]

MPH, You asked another interesting question but to the best of my knowledge a competitor has to earn his IFBB Pro Card by placing in an IFBB Pro Qualifying contest and cannot purchase an IFBB Pro card simply because he won an IFBB International contest …. but I have to ASSUME that prior to this IFBB/IFBB conflict …. those individuals who possessed an IFBB International Pro Card were eligible to enter the Olympia events.

Do you have any idea how much it cost to maintain an IFBB Pro Card each year and how many pros renew that card each year?

I'm guessing $300 per year but that figure could be wrong.

Forget this silly pro card bullshit. Just another way bodybuilders are controlled. They depend on promoters and contests to have a future. Early on they learn to NOT rock the boat or criticize the Pro League or IFBB.

To hell with the IFBB. Joe and Ben struggled for decades to control bodybuilding. They succeeded after Bob Hoffman and Oscar Heidenstam died.

Now look at the mess now that Joe and Ben are gone. A true circus with little or no regard for the welfare of professional bodybuilders.

[mphgrove]

MPH, You asked another interesting question but to the best of my knowledge a competitor has to earn his IFBB Pro Card by placing in an IFBB Pro Qualifying contest and cannot purchase an IFBB Pro card simply because he won an IFBB International contest …. but I have to ASSUME that prior to this IFBB/IFBB conflict …. those individuals who possessed an IFBB International Pro Card were eligible to enter the Olympia events.

Do you have any idea how much it cost to maintain an IFBB Pro Card each year and how many pros renew that card each year?

I'm guessing $300 per year but that figure could be wrong.

So I guess you are saying that a competitor (let's say, for example, from the Czech Republic who tuned pro in the Czech Republic and registered pro status there) has always been required to purchase a second IFBB Pro card when he comes to the United States to compete in a pro contest here (let's say for example the New York Pro or the Chicago Wings of Strength. I wish we had a real live pro of this sort (like Osidil for example) on this Board to elaborate on this.