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Author Topic: Texans May Legally Bring Guns to Church, Says Attorney General  (Read 2389 times)
Dos Equis
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« on: December 22, 2017, 12:02:14 PM »

Sad that it has come to this.

Texans May Legally Bring Guns to Church, Says Attorney General
by BREITBART TEXAS
22 Dec 2017

Texans licensed to carry firearms may bring their weapons to religious services if specific conditions are met, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton noted Thursday. The official opinion also exempts religious institutions from state fees levied on private organizations which maintain security forces.

General Paxton told Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick (R) in an advisory opinion that a licensed worshiper may carry their firearm onto a religious entity’s property if the institution does not provide proper notice to attendees that such items are forbidden. Unless the requirements under Sections 30.06 and 30.07 of the Penal Code are met, Texans may lawfully carry concealed or visible weapons, respectively, Paxton explains.

If a body of worship utilizes a building in a rental capacity, attendees are bound by the property owner’s existing notice.

“To the extent a church operates on property other than its own, it should consult with the owner of the property to determine the extent to which it may prohibit or allow the carrying of handguns,” Paxton writes.

Separately, General Paxton agreed that churches and other religious institutions are no longer subject to licensing fees, should they wish to utilize a volunteer security force on their grounds. On September 1, 2017, Senate Bill 2065 went into effect, exempting the $400 initial fee for such arrangements and any annual renewal expenses owed to the State, reportedly running $225 thereafter. The advisory opinion notes that in order to qualify for the fee exemption, unpaid volunteers may not wear uniforms, badges, or insignia that would create the appearance they are “peace officers” or other authorities.

Both Paxton and Patrick acknowledged the weight of the matters in their writings by making references to the tragic shooting on November 5, 2017. Breitbart Texas reported at the time that Devin Patrick Kelley entered the Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church armed with a Ruger AR-15 and began to shoot worshipers at close range. Kelley would eventually kill 26 and leave dozens injured, including young children. Kelley was forced from the church grounds when a barefoot neighbor, Stephen Willeford, fired intervening shots and later engaged in a car chase with the help of an unfamiliar passing motorist. The former National Rifle Association trainer reportedly witnessed Kelley’s vehicle swerve off the road after the church shooter turned his remaining weapon on himself.

Given the new law and traumatizing events in Sutherland Springs, Patrick asked on December 1 that his requests for clarity be expedited “so that churches may know what legal options they have to improve their security.”

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/12/22/texans-may-legally-bring-guns-church-says-attorney-general/
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 11:22:31 PM »

Seems to me, if there is a universal God that exists and watches over his creation, answering prayers, healing the sick on occasion, getting people the job promotion they prayed for and finding their soul mate to marry, needing a gun to attend a service to worship this god is counterproductive. First, you apparently don't believe he will protect you while you are minding your own business and attending church and second, you probably really don't believe in death you'll actually go to heaven, or why would you be fighting so hard to avoid it? If you were a Christian attending church and you got killed, you would have so many riches in heaven you could choke a horse with it. Something doesn't add up  Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 09:37:03 AM »

Seems to me, if there is a universal God that exists and watches over his creation, answering prayers, healing the sick on occasion, getting people the job promotion they prayed for and finding their soul mate to marry, needing a gun to attend a service to worship this god is counterproductive. First, you apparently don't believe he will protect you while you are minding your own business and attending church and second, you probably really don't believe in death you'll actually go to heaven, or why would you be fighting so hard to avoid it? If you were a Christian attending church and you got killed, you would have so many riches in heaven you could choke a horse with it. Something doesn't add up  Smiley

It does seem counterproductive and counterintuitive for a body of believers to bring a gun into a place of worship for an all-loving, all-knowing, all-yes prayer answering, all-protecting, all evil preventing God.

The problem with that conclusion is that isn't what God promises and that isn't who God is.

He is indescribably loving, but not all-loving.
He does answer prayers, but not every answer is a yes to a prayer request.
He isn't a God that protects and shields us from all the evil of mankind all the time.

Believers are actually promised a rather difficult life in service of God and that includes enduring the evil of men.  Christ came to deliver people from their evil and into repentance.  Those folks that choose to align their will with God's will and turn from sin and evil.

Simply put, it's unfortunate guns are needed as protection in a place like a church, but the increase in the effects of global sin only increases....it only reverses or stops for those saved through Christ.  And believers are commanded to protect those in need and provide for their needs.

Also, remember how the nation of Israel was used by God in the OT.  They were an instrument of his righteousness used to bring an end to the horrific traditions of the surrounding pagan nations in the ancient near east.
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 02:53:52 PM »

Seems to me, if there is a universal God that exists and watches over his creation, answering prayers, healing the sick on occasion, getting people the job promotion they prayed for and finding their soul mate to marry, needing a gun to attend a service to worship this god is counterproductive. First, you apparently don't believe he will protect you while you are minding your own business and attending church and second, you probably really don't believe in death you'll actually go to heaven, or why would you be fighting so hard to avoid it? If you were a Christian attending church and you got killed, you would have so many riches in heaven you could choke a horse with it. Something doesn't add up  Smiley

What's to say it isn't exactly that, though?  A person who'd look to catch sitting ducks, for one thing, might find the wisdom to think again before entering a church in Texas with a plan to kill.
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 09:31:50 AM »

Seems to me, if there is a universal God that exists and watches over his creation, answering prayers, healing the sick on occasion, getting people the job promotion they prayed for and finding their soul mate to marry, needing a gun to attend a service to worship this god is counterproductive. First, you apparently don't believe he will protect you while you are minding your own business and attending church and second, you probably really don't believe in death you'll actually go to heaven, or why would you be fighting so hard to avoid it? If you were a Christian attending church and you got killed, you would have so many riches in heaven you could choke a horse with it. Something doesn't add up  Smiley

Or you believe that people always have the power of choice, including the power to choose to do bad things. 
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 11:31:23 AM »

Or you believe that people always have the power of choice, including the power to choose to do bad things. 

That's where it gets confusing. In one conversation someone will say God knows the number of hairs on your head, he loves you he answers prayers, people will say they survived a plane crash or a car crash, tornado or hurricane because God intervened. Then when asked about a mass shooting in a church will fall back on "people have free will" its like a perfect argument. You can move the goal posts and change your position in the blink of an eye.. God answers prayers, but not all prayers, sometimes he answers no... hell, a door knob can do that in side by side comparisons so why not pray to a door knob
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 11:46:28 AM »

That's where it gets confusing. In one conversation someone will say God knows the number of hairs on your head, he loves you he answers prayers, people will say they survived a plane crash or a car crash, tornado or hurricane because God intervened. Then when asked about a mass shooting in a church will fall back on "people have free will" its like a perfect argument. You can move the goal posts and change your position in the blink of an eye.. God answers prayers, but not all prayers, sometimes he answers no... hell, a door knob can do that in side by side comparisons so why not pray to a door knob

You're partly correct.  God always answers prayers.  Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes, no, sometimes wait. 

I don't presume to know all of the answers.  I don't.  I do know that free will is something we always have and we are all imperfect people who sometimes do bad things.  I don't think anyone is immune from suffering the consequences of another person's bad acts. 
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 12:11:22 PM »

You're partly correct.  God always answers prayers.  Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes, no, sometimes wait. 

I don't presume to know all of the answers.  I don't.  I do know that free will is something we always have and we are all imperfect people who sometimes do bad things.  I don't think anyone is immune from suffering the consequences of another person's bad acts. 

Does my free will trump Gods desire to have Becky live a full life? If God handpicked Becky (you know, the "God has a plan for you thing) and saves her from a car crash, can I then come along and shoot her at a church service?

If you are alleging your god answers prayers but can answer with yes, no, wait or maybe, would you agree that for a non believer, those results look like random chance and praying to a baseball could appear to match the results of a devote Christian praying to their god?
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 12:28:43 PM »

Does my free will trump Gods desire to have Becky live a full life? If God handpicked Becky (you know, the "God has a plan for you thing) and saves her from a car crash, can I then come along and shoot her at a church service?

If you are alleging your god answers prayers but can answer with yes, no, wait or maybe, would you agree that for a non believer, those results look like random chance and praying to a baseball could appear to match the results of a devote Christian praying to their god?

It could.  God has a plan for everyone, including Becky.  Why does Becky have a short or long life?  I really don't know.  Everyone's life has a purpose.  The answer to why some live longer than others is something I don't know. 

I don't think answered prayer is random if you've seen it work in your life and the lives of many others.  We don't always get what we want.  I can look back on my life and see how those prayers that were answered "no" were the right call.  Sometimes "no" sucks, but I do believe things happen for a reason. 
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 09:28:07 PM »

It could.  God has a plan for everyone, including Becky.  Why does Becky have a short or long life?  I really don't know.  Everyone's life has a purpose.  The answer to why some live longer than others is something I don't know. 

I don't think answered prayer is random if you've seen it work in your life and the lives of many others.  We don't always get what we want.  I can look back on my life and see how those prayers that were answered "no" were the right call.  Sometimes "no" sucks, but I do believe things happen for a reason. 

cool
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 07:52:23 AM »

That's where it gets confusing. In one conversation someone will say God knows the number of hairs on your head, he loves you he answers prayers, people will say they survived a plane crash or a car crash, tornado or hurricane because God intervened. Then when asked about a mass shooting in a church will fall back on "people have free will" its like a perfect argument. You can move the goal posts and change your position in the blink of an eye.. God answers prayers, but not all prayers, sometimes he answers no... hell, a door knob can do that in side by side comparisons so why not pray to a door knob

It is a perfect argument because it's true and what I noted above helps support it.   What I believe you're suggesting is that believers simply pick and choose when it's God or when it's not God as it suits their needs (or the argument).  I guess some may do that, but the argument works because it's grounded in God's truth.

We as believers desire to align our will with God's will for our lives.  If we submit to God humbly in prayer there's a definite chance that what we desire in that moment may not be the best way to address the request.  Sometimes we're meant to go through some bouts of agony....I have.   Sometimes we're blessed beyond measure...I have been.  In either instance if we submit to God's will and seek his will within our prayers those prayers are never in vain.
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