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Author Topic: Resigning from a job, bite your lip or tell the truth?  (Read 2798 times)
Earl1972
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#EarlToo


« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2018, 08:07:38 PM »

Employees do not always see themselves the way leadership sees them.  I have passed over two people for promotion.  Both are capable but also quite clueless.  If you are a remarkably talented person who is getting outside offers that pay more, by all means take the offer and go.  If you are being passed over for a promotion there is a reason.  You need to find out what it is and address it.  Maybe you need more expertise?  Perhaps another degree?  Maybe you need to hone your political skills?  Maybe you need to explore how others see you.  For example:

Step 1: Make a list of five people who work with you enough to comment on your personal style.  Choose at least two whom you especially admire for their success in navigating their own careers.

Step 2: Tell each person that you are seeking honest feedback, and offer to take them to lunch, coffee, or happy hour if they will agree to provide honest answers to five questions that you will send in advance. Here are the questions:

• Which of my personal strengths differentiate me most?
• When people compliment me out of earshot, what themes emerge?
• When people criticize me behind my back, what do they say?
• What are two or three things I could start, stop, or change to be more effective?
• If you had to choose one thing that might be holding me back professionally, what would it be?

Step No. 3: During the feedback meeting, listen, take notes, and resist the urge to argue or interrupt. Above all, do not punish your conversation partners for speaking the truth as they see it.

Step No. 4: Decide how you plan to proceed. Will you reject anything you hear that contradicts the way you see yourself? Or will you try to deal with any issues that your conversation partners were kind and courageous enough to share with you?

Self improvement isn’t limited to the gym.  Most people have too much ego to undertake these steps.


you would know, you deleted my posts on special ed's site when i called out your bullshit Wink

E
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E
mazrim
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« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2018, 04:03:12 AM »

I think you're looking at things from a very basic point of view. I work in the financial services industry and the majority of these kids come prepared and ready to hit the ground running. The majority of them are quick learners, are engaged, try their best and work weekends if necessary.

Look, the reason I brought it up is because I had a very freaking unpleasant meeting with a manager who lost his most valuable employee and wanted ME to contact him, even though he wasn't an employee anymore, to see if he could consult with us for a premium. Turns out the guy was his star employee, his work horse, the guy that was churning out the most accurate analysis of the bunch and this dumb ass idiot decides to promote someone else. I go through the paperwork with him, look at his evaluations, look at his peer reviews and the guy literally stood out. Yet, for what ever reason, or for reasons to this day I still ignore, he promoted another person.

To make a long story short, I had gone through too many of these stories, the power went out at my house (I was in the office though) and I was cranky as fucking hell and... I literally lost it with one of the managers and got written up.

I basically listened to another lame ass story about how they never expected the person to leave and how they want him back and how they made a mistake... I swear to God, every time I hear these people talk I can sense my 401(k) shrinking by the syllable. I basically told him "Are you an idiot??? Are you stupid???".

There, I said it.
Probably should have started with this post if this is truly what it was about....
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Irongrip400
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« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2018, 04:47:13 AM »

That's the kiss of death.

A counteroffer is nothing but a company's way of buying more time until they find a replacement.

You should NEVER accept a counteroffer unless they promise, in writing, that you will not be laid off.

As an employer, this is how I see it. You need to patch holes so you keep them, but you know where their loyalty lies. Best to move on and if they give an exit interview then you can air some of the dirty laundry, just don't sound butt hurt about it.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2018, 10:15:52 AM »

As an employer, this is how I see it. You need to patch holes so you keep them, but you know where their loyalty lies. Best to move on and if they give an exit interview then you can air some of the dirty laundry, just don't sound butt hurt about it.

That may be true, but I've known more than a couple people over the years that were headhunted for another company, told their boss and were offered raises to stay, they stayed and remained for years. I would think for every "patched hole" there has to be a company that realized value is what someone is willing to pay for you and figured it was cheaper to give you a raise than to recruit and train a replacement. Some just won't give raises until pushed.   
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Mayday
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« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2018, 12:21:13 PM »

I'm in senior management. i am an outlier performance wise and have a strong political game.

Dont leave because your fragile ego cant handle losing.  Either strengthen your skills and relationships or maybe accept you are not smart enough to move up.

The demand for intelligence (particularly on the spot) increases the higher you go. You want to remain smart among peers, you dont want to be the dumb guy in the room. intelligence gives political standing and people are less inclined to fuck with you at that level. Everybody seems.to think they can get a top job but the truth is most cant handle the pace and expectation. when its discovered by peers that you are the weak one, guess who gets blamed when things go wrong.....




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Dan-O
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« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2018, 12:40:49 PM »

Employees do not always see themselves the way leadership sees them.  I have passed over two people for promotion.  Both are capable but also quite clueless.  If you are a remarkably talented person who is getting outside offers that pay more, by all means take the offer and go.  If you are being passed over for a promotion there is a reason.  You need to find out what it is and address it.  Maybe you need more expertise?  Perhaps another degree?  Maybe you need to hone your political skills?  Maybe you need to explore how others see you.  For example:

Step 1: Make a list of five people who work with you enough to comment on your personal style.  Choose at least two whom you especially admire for their success in navigating their own careers.

Step 2: Tell each person that you are seeking honest feedback, and offer to take them to lunch, coffee, or happy hour if they will agree to provide honest answers to five questions that you will send in advance. Here are the questions:

• Which of my personal strengths differentiate me most?
• When people compliment me out of earshot, what themes emerge?
• When people criticize me behind my back, what do they say?
• What are two or three things I could start, stop, or change to be more effective?
• If you had to choose one thing that might be holding me back professionally, what would it be?

Step No. 3: During the feedback meeting, listen, take notes, and resist the urge to argue or interrupt. Above all, do not punish your conversation partners for speaking the truth as they see it.

Step No. 4: Decide how you plan to proceed. Will you reject anything you hear that contradicts the way you see yourself? Or will you try to deal with any issues that your conversation partners were kind and courageous enough to share with you?

Self improvement isn’t limited to the gym.  Most people have too much ego to undertake these steps.


Good stuff, Bay.  I just copied your post and emailed it to myself for later use.  Thanks man!
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cephissus
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2018, 12:53:32 PM »

If you want to be top dog, which is what I advise all the interns I train, you must waste no time. Missing out on a promotion basically forces you to throw away an entire year of your life (same when missing out on the bonus, you will never get that money back, meaning all the effort and time put into that year is completely and forever lost).

I say move on. It sends a stronger signal to those in positions of power. There is nothing worse than a team of careless managers who make decisions without first evaluating the repercussions of those decisions.

You have no idea how many managers I have to talk to about this very fact... Sometimes I have to contain myself, bite my lip and not call them out on mind-numbingly stupid decision-making that has a long term negative effect on the future of the firm.

What kind of work do you do Huh
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2018, 01:25:02 PM »

I'm in senior management. i am an outlier performance wise and have a strong political game.

Dont leave because your fragile ego cant handle losing.  Either strengthen your skills and relationships or maybe accept you are not smart enough to move up.

The demand for intelligence (particularly on the spot) increases the higher you go. You want to remain smart among peers, you dont want to be the dumb guy in the room. intelligence gives political standing and people are less inclined to fuck with you at that level. Everybody seems.to think they can get a top job but the truth is most cant handle the pace and expectation. when its discovered by peers that you are the weak one, guess who gets blamed when things go wrong.....






exactly. I've only experienced  two different work environments, one military, one civilian Police organization. Both were different animals with similar markings. A lot goes into operating in upper management. it is very political, there are strategic and tactical decisions being made, people are building empires, or team playing. Competence and intelligence become a very necessary quality to effectively deal with complex deals. That doesn't mean the best qualified always get the position. In fact in that organization, race, gender etc played a large role in getting the top positions or the best assignments. But when you are working with highly competent people, the ones who shouldn't belong stand out like a sore thumb.  
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Al Doggity
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2018, 01:50:32 PM »

I'm in senior management. i am an outlier performance wise and have a strong political game.

Dont leave because your fragile ego cant handle losing.  Either strengthen your skills and relationships or maybe accept you are not smart enough to move up.

The demand for intelligence (particularly on the spot) increases the higher you go. You want to remain smart among peers, you dont want to be the dumb guy in the room. intelligence gives political standing and people are less inclined to fuck with you at that level. Everybody seems.to think they can get a top job but the truth is most cant handle the pace and expectation. when its discovered by peers that you are the weak one, guess who gets blamed when things go wrong.....



He says that this isn't his situation and this line of reasoning doesn't apply to him. In a subsequent post he said he's in an hr  position and was irritated by seeing stories of  overqualified employees being passed over for promotions. Based on the responses in this thread, it seems like most people didn't quite get where he was going.  Honestly, the explanation post only made the opening post more convoluted to me.  I'm not sure what he's asking. You can resign from a job for other reasons besides being passed over for promotion. I've posted on here about how I systematically change jobs at least every  18 months, and once I'm out the door I really don't give a shit about whether or not they're forced to change their promotion protocol.

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Slapper
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2018, 06:30:49 PM »

I'm in senior management. i am an outlier performance wise and have a strong political game.

Dont leave because your fragile ego cant handle losing.  Either strengthen your skills and relationships or maybe accept you are not smart enough to move up.

The demand for intelligence (particularly on the spot) increases the higher you go. You want to remain smart among peers, you don't want to be the dumb guy in the room. intelligence gives political standing and people are less inclined to fuck with you at that level. Everybody seems.to think they can get a top job but the truth is most cant handle the pace and expectation. when its discovered by peers that you are the weak one, guess who gets blamed when things go wrong.....

You fellas are missing the point... it's not about ego or emotion or any of that, it's about exposing your career to the manager that genuinely sees the value you bring to the table and awards your for it. If someone else gets promoted that means that that person will always be one up on you in the corporate ladder.

What I'd like to see if kids that are hard working, sociable, hungry and accepting of more responsibility. I want these kids to have an attitude of exclusivity that sets them apart from the pack. Kinda like saying "you only get one look at me. You don't promote me, that's it, I'm gone" rather than the usual kiss ass who just happens to have more in common with the lard ass manager than chops to bring value into the firm.

It's these kids that eventually make the Amazons, the Googles and all the successful firms out there. The idiotic managers who only promote people they feel comfortable with and around are a cancer. They put their "gumbah circle of trust" first and firm second. Put enough of these groups of morons together and watch the company take in water faster than the Titanic.
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be back
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« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2018, 12:53:47 AM »

You fellas are missing the point... it's not about ego or emotion or any of that, it's about exposing your career to the manager that genuinely sees the value you bring to the table and awards your for it. If someone else gets promoted that means that that person will always be one up on you in the corporate ladder.

What I'd like to see if kids that are hard working, sociable, hungry and accepting of more responsibility. I want these kids to have an attitude of exclusivity that sets them apart from the pack. Kinda like saying "you only get one look at me. You don't promote me, that's it, I'm gone" rather than the usual kiss ass who just happens to have more in common with the lard ass manager than chops to bring value into the firm.

It's these kids that eventually make the Amazons, the Googles and all the successful firms out there. The idiotic managers who only promote people they feel comfortable with and around are a cancer. They put their "gumbah circle of trust" first and firm second. Put enough of these groups of morons together and watch the company take in water faster than the Titanic.


You sound like the type of guy who would employ dj181
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IRON CROSS
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« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2018, 01:32:47 AM »

I prefer to burn bridges. Tell them like it is. You left for a reason.   

I like this quote,,, "My resume is a list of places I never want to go to again" something like that

 Tongue Tongue Tongue

 Grin Grin Grin
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Marty Champions
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« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2018, 04:39:50 AM »

u eat too much meat because u want to fit in , cookie cutter

dont drink enough for people to like u at work, ur a low energy slow talking bore to be around have a beer fagget
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A
dan18
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« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2018, 05:21:02 AM »

Sounds like good advice coming from a dolt like you Roll Eyes
Oh look who got his 15 min break from the fryer to post an opinion Cool
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p
Mayday
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« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2018, 05:11:40 PM »

You fellas are missing the point... it's not about ego or emotion or any of that, it's about exposing your career to the manager that genuinely sees the value you bring to the table and awards your for it. If someone else gets promoted that means that that person will always be one up on you in the corporate ladder.

Nah we get it as its about not missing out on progression and wasting time in a job that doesnt progress. I agree to change jobs and progress, i had no option but to do this myself. However it only works at a low level and then the game is different as politics are more in play.

Consider the size of the workforce and then consider how many are handed things or given what they deserve. it's fucking rare and is a unicorn pipedream. The whole game is figuring out how to get ahead and beat everybody else to the finish line.

Work hard but build relationships and political standing otherwise, get to the back of the line and be quiet. Are you really going to leave a job every 12 months for your 50yr working life?

Make yourself a Matyr every year LOL?  There you will be having to start a new job, learn things again, build relationships again, build credibility amongst peers and political favour.... from scratch..... its a great way to fuck yourself over........

I am moving industries next year and have already bult social relationships with the top dogs that matter. They like me a lot. Inside 12 months ill be a senior player with political weight because my intelligence will level the playing field with peers but ill have direct personal relationships with the 2 owners which others won't have.

It can sometimes take YEARS to build credibility and political favour. A fucking intern at 22yrs old upset they arent promoted every year LMAO.

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Mayday
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« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2018, 05:33:47 PM »

To add to this dont forget if someone else is promoted you need to consider your position with and underneath them.

If they were seen as the 'leader' and thrn promoted, the position for 'leader' needs to be fought out. You can fight for that position and establish yourself as next in line. You can go from a nobody to a 2IC under that person. You build your skills and knowledge then perhaps leave sometime later for a better job using those new skills as leverage.

Someone else being promoted can open opportunities.

A loss can become a win if you want it to be.
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gcb
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you suffer, why?


« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2018, 08:23:19 PM »

there is only one true getbig way to deal with a place you leave on bad terms



any questions?
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2018, 08:47:55 PM »

To add to this dont forget if someone else is promoted you need to consider your position with and underneath them.

If they were seen as the 'leader' and thrn promoted, the position for 'leader' needs to be fought out. You can fight for that position and establish yourself as next in line. You can go from a nobody to a 2IC under that person. You build your skills and knowledge then perhaps leave sometime later for a better job using those new skills as leverage.

Someone else being promoted can open opportunities.

A loss can become a win if you want it to be.

You reminded me of another tactic.. I've seen junior people identify a mentor, who is on the fast track. They work with that mentor, build the mentor up and when that mentor gets promoted up the chain, they take them along for the ride. Eventually the boss retires, or seeks other opportunities and tags the junior person to replace them.
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be back
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« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2018, 12:45:04 AM »

To add to this dont forget if someone else is promoted you need to consider your position with and underneath them.

If they were seen as the 'leader' and thrn promoted, the position for 'leader' needs to be fought out. You can fight for that position and establish yourself as next in line. You can go from a nobody to a 2IC under that person. You build your skills and knowledge then perhaps leave sometime later for a better job using those new skills as leverage.

Someone else being promoted can open opportunities.

A loss can become a win if you want it to be.

Wall Street of peace....
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Mayday
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« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2018, 03:53:02 AM »

Wall Street of peace....

It can be.

It's a different question on if that's all you care about in life because that might be all you have.

Most can't even wash their car or keep the inside of it clean...... maybe start with that first, then conquer the world.
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« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2018, 05:05:41 AM »

It can be.

It's a different question on if that's all you care about in life because that might be all you have.

Most can't even wash their car or keep the inside of it clean...... maybe start with that first, then conquer the world.

when I had an old car I used to wash it maybe once a year, guy next door to me used to spend 3 hours every Sunday washing his, sad reality is his car was only one wash cleaner than mine regardless of all the hours he wasted.
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Darren Avey
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« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2018, 05:16:00 AM »

The job I left in 2016 on the last day I told the boss who had also been a friend he s a girl and if he wants it ill bite his nose off and spit it in his wifes face. He backed down and still paid me what I was due. Ive told him if I see him again I will attack him.
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benchmstr
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« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2018, 05:20:24 AM »

What would you do?

I am of the belief that telling an employer or a human resources employee what is really going through your head is counterproductive: All they want to hear is that you have no intention of suing them.

I am also of the belief that if you are passed over for a promotion once, you must leave. Being passed over means you are not looked at as promotional material and you leaving will force them to reassess their promotion protocol. It's time to expose your career to someone who may see the value you bring to the table.

What do you think?

Stop being a pussy

Bench
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be back
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« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2018, 05:28:23 AM »

The job I left in 2016 on the last day I told the boss who had also been a friend he s a girl and if he wants it ill bite his nose off and spit it in his wifes face. He backed down and still paid me what I was due. Ive told him if I see him again I will attack him.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSBLwlV3m4o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSBLwlV3m4o</a>
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Notomorrow
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« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2018, 06:52:49 AM »

What would you do?

I am of the belief that telling an employer or a human resources employee what is really going through your head is counterproductive.
You may want to rethink this attitude as sounds like at least part of the problem you're having is some type of communication problem...there should not be a problem communicating your "real thoughts" to an employer,as long as its done in a productive, respectful way..good employers want respectful feedback.

I've had the problem in the past of staying quiet about minor work problems for too long until I can't stand ot  and then exploding on some manager...quitting and storming out...As I've gotten older I've tried to just express myself openly but respectfully and calmly..works much better in the workplace.

I'd work on having an open, honest but calm dialogue with your employers...Hear them and let them hear you...sometimes with just improved communication the job can even be saved

But regardless..you develop conflict/resolution skills that will stay with you at the next job

But, I totally understand the release if the good ol "Take this job and shove it" storm out quitting rant

I think you could do better than that though.
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