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Author Topic: Is religious belief a mental disorder?  (Read 8358 times)
illuminati
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2018, 12:56:44 PM »

Very good to see you posting again MOS.

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Agnostic007
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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2018, 02:40:59 PM »

Religious belief is definitely a mental disorder for some.   I say abandon religion and simply follow Christ.   

same thing
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2018, 06:09:27 AM »

When I question life I always come back to the classic Socratic answer: that I know nothing. No matter how hard, how long you search for an answer it is always fruitless. Tired of your life being shit? Give it up to God. Scared of death? Give it to God. No one left in your life? Well God always is. Not saying I do believe in God or I don't, all I'm saying is, based on personal experience, is that I've tried to find the answer and always always always come back to nothing. I don't have to go back into the loop of question, I don't have to know anything, I don't have to even think, I can return to an animalistic state of mind and just do with no anxiety or regret etc.

Also Pascal's wager.

Was with you until Pascal's Wager. A benevolent god wouldn't want you to rely on odds.

What Theists have brought to the table is unsubstantiated and unjustified. They just play on emotions.
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2018, 06:19:44 AM »

Religious belief is definitely a mental disorder for some.   I say abandon religion and simply follow Christ.   

You are religious. You just form your own denomination.
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2018, 06:23:02 AM »

Everything that begins has a cause.  God transcends time, space and all that we know and don't know.  He is alpha and omega.  He is self-existent and has always been.   Since he stands outside of time he has no beginning and therefore is uncaused.   The creator is not created.     

Asking the question "who created God? and who created that thing that created God?" is a valid question but creates an infinite regression.

Now how does God self-exist and be uncaused?  I don't know. 

Hope all is good with each of you.

MOS out!

Multiverse is a pretty common accepted idea with many scholars that don't require a god. Why do you quickly dismiss this? Is it because of your near death experience?
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2018, 10:12:30 AM »

Most interesting thing to me about the word as we know it, is that it provides the fastest track imaginable to full denial of God.  And what an incredibly backward process it must be for a person to use the failures of man to deny God.  But it's exactly what happens, every day.  All that's required is to point at others and say, "see!"

Worst tragedy ever, then, is someone's conscious decision to exclude God from knowledge - due to the behavior of man.  It's like: wtf, over? how's that?

And btw, if you go so far as to "decide" this as your truth, for any reason you might claim, then you've made it much more difficult to go forward with a clear mind: the exact opposite of what you'd hoped for.  Again, dumb.  That's because whatever caused you think it'd make you better, smarter, faster, less bothered and more complete, to deny God, then becomes threatened by the empty worthless decision you made, should you otherwise broaden your senses as you live life.  And the best always do.  So don't pretend to read the future by locking yourself into something so impossibly close-minded.

You're doing everything in the negative, that you accuse the believers of doing in the positive.
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2018, 10:17:39 AM »

I'm just trying not to fall off the Great Turtle's back.



Oh, I'm sure the nearest elephant will use his trunk to blast you back up by the asshole.

Must happen all the time when the turtle makes sharp turns.
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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2018, 11:11:07 AM »

Everything that begins has a cause.

OK.

God transcends time, space and all that we know and don't know.  He is alpha and omega.  He is self-existent and has always been.   Since he stands outside of time he has no beginning and therefore is uncaused.   The creator is not created.

Wait.. what? You just finished telling us that:

Everything that begins has a cause.

You just said this in the same sentence as the tripe above!


Everything that begins has a cause. Asking the question "who created God? and who created that thing that created God?" is a valid question but creates an infinite regression.

Have you considered that one of your premises might be flawed?


Everything that begins has a cause. Now how does God self-exist and be uncaused?

You don't know yet you speak as if your irrational beliefs are facts.


I don't know.

Well, at least you're honest about that.
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« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2018, 04:08:46 PM »

Religion is a form of moral responsibility. Complete belief in science leads to complete hedonism...Darwins theories made us believe that inequity is "natural"...after all...certain lions take all the good food..fuck all the hot female lions and let weaker lions starve for scraps.....

You often hear the term today "alpha"...a scientific term which many strive to attain today...we are able to see the suffering and pain of so many, while very few hoard more and more....without some sort of spiritual compass...this is "natural"...the rich were just more alpha..

We are seeing more and more "scientific" studies about transgender and other behaviors..pedophilia will be coming soon to science...frantically trying to prove its "natural"...yet it is a form of hedonism...don't reproduce...you have no moral responsibility other than to obey your own primal desires.....like that alpha lion...

Truth is there will be a resurgence of spirituality probably within 100 years....not traditional, organized religions..they were simply primitive explanations of spirituality...but the recognition that pure hedonism doesn't work...we do have a moral reaponsibility to our fellow humans....
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« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2018, 04:56:46 PM »

Religion is a form of moral responsibility. Complete belief in science leads to complete hedonism...Darwins theories made us believe that inequity is "natural"...after all...certain lions take all the good food..fuck all the hot female lions and let weaker lions starve for scraps.....

Religion is a form of moral responsibility; just one that's not based on reason. The simple fact is that you can have rational ethics and a morality based on logic. As for your lion example, the distinguishing characteristic between them and us is we have a rational faculty, and they don't.


You often hear the term today "alpha"...a scientific term which many strive to attain today...

Hate to break it to you, but alpha is just the name of a letter in the Greek alphabet.


we are able to see the suffering and pain of so many, while very few hoard more and more....without some sort of spiritual compass...this is "natural"...the rich were just more alpha..

Yeah, a "spiritual compass" is what will make people not "hoard more and more." That's why the Old Testament had very detailed rules about which parts of an animal offering would be burned at the altar and which would go in the belly of the High Priest (Leviticus 7:28-38), and why Henry VIII lived in gilded halls while his subjects subsisted in squalor.

We are seeing more and more "scientific" studies about transgender and other behaviors..pedophilia will be coming soon to science...frantically trying to prove its "natural"...yet it is a form of hedonism...don't reproduce...you have no moral responsibility other than to obey your own primal desires.....like that alpha lion...

"The gays are comin! The gays are comin! Clench your buttcheeks everyone! The gays are comin!"


Truth is there will be a resurgence of spirituality probably within 100 years....not traditional, organized religions..they were simply primitive explanations of spirituality...but the recognition that pure hedonism doesn't work...we do have a moral reaponsibility to our fellow humans....

If you have a moral responsibility to your fellow humans, then you should be able to articulate a rational basis for that position.
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« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2018, 09:48:13 PM »




If you have a moral responsibility to your fellow humans, then you should be able to articulate a rational basis for that position.
[/quote]What if there is no "rational" basis for moral responsibility to your fellow humans...fuck em...survival of the fittest?...the weak just perish...after being exploited by the strong?......Why should you be able to rationalize and intellectually support being a good moral person?

Children with no education and rational experience generally care on some level for fellow children...barring mental disorders don't like to see suffering and pain in other children...they can't articulate that....even care for helpless animals...without any rational thought or reasoning...its inherent in humans...and outside the realm of rational thought.




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« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2018, 09:28:53 AM »

Humans have a rational faculty. Thatís how we are diffferent from, say, the lions in your example. You may choose to believe that there is no reason-based morality or code  of ethics, but that doesnít make it so.

Iím loath to quote Ayn Rand, but she did articulate the case for a code of ethics based on logic and simple axioms that makes sense to me.
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« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »

There is No Right or Wrong in Nature
And There is No Religion in Nature

Religion is Man made

HTH
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« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2018, 09:56:32 PM »

There is No Right or Wrong in Nature
And There is No Religion in Nature

Religion is Man made

HTH
If you take religion literally..yes...but religion basically was a primitive way of man describing morality through moral stories. For example..the devil and Satanism. If you remove the religion aspect..satan is pure hedonism...just your own pleasure at any cost. So when you hear about "Satanism" controlling Hollywood..no..they Don't drink blood and pray and chant...but have the money and power for pure hedonism..sex no longer has to be consensual or with adults...or even humans...the darkest, filthiest hedonism takes over...Call it the devil..or the devil and hell as a primitive metaphor for unrestrained hedonism...Religions are metaphors for very real things.
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« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2018, 12:58:03 AM »

There is No Right or Wrong in Nature
And There is No Religion in Nature

Religion is Man made

HTH
Attitude of a school shooter.
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illuminati
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« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2018, 03:28:20 AM »

Attitude of a school shooter.

Ha - If you think so  Roll Eyes

It is also Fact - Like it or Not
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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2018, 12:07:55 PM »

Humans have a rational faculty. Thatís how we are diffferent from, say, the lions in your example. You may choose to believe that there is no reason-based morality or code  of ethics, but that doesnít make it so.

Iím loath to quote Ayn Rand, but she did articulate the case for a code of ethics based on logic and simple axioms that makes sense to me.

Why's that, avxo?
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2018, 12:44:20 PM »

Why's that, avxo?

I just find her writing style tiresome and somewhat naive. Theoretically a lot of she says makes sense, although not as much sense as she thought if you ask me. But quoting her is almost like a thought-ending cliche.
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« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2018, 04:31:28 PM »

I just find her writing style tiresome and somewhat naive. Theoretically a lot of she says makes sense, although not as much sense as she thought if you ask me. But quoting her is almost like a thought-ending cliche.

Well said, IMO.  I can't disagree.

She's remarkable, for sure, in that she made the closest thing possible to a case for subjecting conscience to logic.  No small feat, imho, as I believe it defies logic itself.

Making an illogical argument to advise on the use of logic is some wicked mad skill, I'm sure - but that's probably why it's so one dimensional and/or seemingly naive.
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« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2018, 04:40:26 PM »

There is No Right or Wrong in Nature
And There is No Religion in Nature

Religion is Man made

HTH

We're part of nature, though, and we most certainly recognize right and wrong.

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« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2018, 11:28:15 PM »

We're part of nature, though, and we most certainly recognize right and wrong.



Correct We are part of Nature
We Recognise Man made Right & Wrong
Thatís not Natureís Right & Wrong as there is No Right & Wrong in Nature.
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2018, 08:06:45 AM »

Correct We are part of Nature
We Recognise Man made Right & Wrong
Thatís not Natureís Right & Wrong as there is No Right & Wrong in Nature.

Maybe "good and bad" is a better way to get closer to the idea.

Are you saying that a sense of "good or bad" is (one) a manmade concept that is (two) otherwise nonexistent?
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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2018, 09:32:46 AM »

Maybe "good and bad" is a better way to get closer to the idea.

Are you saying that a sense of "good or bad" is (one) a manmade concept that is (two) otherwise nonexistent?

Good and bad are certainly human concepts and applicable to humans (or, more broadly, to conscious and rational animals).

A lightning bolt isnít bad because it strikes and kills a toddler; nor is it good because it strikes and kills a terrorist moments before an attack.

A dog isnít bad because it bit grandpa; nor is it good because it bit a robber.

Neither of those things are rational, conscious and have free will. One is more conscious than the other, of course, if you want to think of consciousness as a spectrum, but thatís semantics.

Good and evil are determinations we make, each based on our moral code. The question is, is an objective and rational moral code possible? I think so.
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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2018, 10:37:49 AM »

Maybe "good and bad" is a better way to get closer to the idea.

Are you saying that a sense of "good or bad" is (one) a manmade concept that is (two) otherwise nonexistent?

Iím not saying or suggesting anything
Just stating the fact that in Nature there is No Good or Bad.

What we as Humans deem Good & Bad is another thing entirely
And what has passed as Good & Bad is different in different countries/ religions
And through different ages.
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« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2018, 10:43:01 AM »

Good and bad are certainly human concepts and applicable to humans (or, more broadly, to conscious and rational animals).

A lightning bolt isnít bad because it strikes and kills a toddler; nor is it good because it strikes and kills a terrorist moments before an attack.

A dog isnít bad because it bit grandpa; nor is it good because it bit a robber.

Neither of those things are rational, conscious and have free will. One is more conscious than the other, of course, if you want to think of consciousness as a spectrum, but thatís semantics.

Good and evil are determinations we make, each based on our moral code. The question is, is an objective and rational moral code possible? I think so.


To some extent I do think a rational & objective moral code is possible.
Though through different countries & Religions as the world is now & for
The foreseeable future itís not able to be a universal code.
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