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Author Topic: Is religious belief a mental disorder?  (Read 5454 times)
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« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2018, 07:33:54 PM »

Iím not saying or suggesting anything
Just stating the fact that in Nature there is No Good or Bad.

What we as Humans deem Good & Bad is another thing entirely
And what has passed as Good & Bad is different in different countries/ religions
And through different ages.

As to "right, wrong" and "good, bad" in nature - to say animals, probably living in the wilderness.

A fair way to put it, then, might be this: "In nature, there's nothing similar to moral concern for matters outside of the self."

In your opinion, does that place it into perspective?
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illuminati
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« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2018, 12:32:08 AM »

As to "right, wrong" and "good, bad" in nature - to say animals, probably living in the wilderness.

A fair way to put it, then, might be this: "In nature, there's nothing similar to moral concern for matters outside of the self."

In your opinion, does that place it into perspective?


Iím not after putting it into perspective.
Itís just A Fact There is No Right or Wrong No Good or Bad
We appear to be the only creatures concerned with such things.

No where else in the universe are there those concepts know
Things just happen.

It a strange & fascinating phenomenon we have evolved the way we have.
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Humble Narcissist
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« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2018, 01:39:49 AM »

That's what separates humans from animals (the knowledge of right and wrong) and the people who have your beliefs are the ones on psych drugs to cope with their miserable lives.  Just because you believe something doesn't make it so and if humans had your perspective throughout history we either wouldn't be here or would still be in a very primitive state.
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« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2018, 11:36:32 AM »

If survival is the name of the game in the wilderness, then it tells me an animal with a full belly is feeling pretty good.  Finding a place in the sun after a freezing night, added to that full stomach, even better.  Good things had, with the right acts done to achieve them.

To me, it shows ideas like "good, bad" "right, wrong" absolutely do exist in nature.

Then, we must acknowledge an animal protecting other animals, showing affection for other animals, warning other animals in danger, bringing food to other animals, and events like that.

Bottom line, these don't look to be ideas that are merely part of some fantastical delusion.  They are real.
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« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2018, 11:41:39 AM »

So.  What's really going on?
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illuminati
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« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2018, 02:03:31 PM »

That's what separates humans from animals (the knowledge of right and wrong) and the people who have your beliefs are the ones on psych drugs to cope with their miserable lives.  Just because you believe something doesn't make it so and if humans had your perspective throughout history we either wouldn't be here or would still be in a very primitive state.

Youíre completely Crackers
Psych drugs  Roll Eyes is that because you canít Handle the truth.
In Nature & The Universe There is No Right or Wrong & No Good Or Bad
Are you to Stupid to see that.

And we are still in a very primitive state - look at all the atrocities humans do to each other
Everyday all over the world in every country.

What Humans want to Percieve & Decide is Right & Wrong - Good & Bad is a Entirely
Different Subject.
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illuminati
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« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2018, 02:13:37 PM »

If survival is the name of the game in the wilderness, then it tells me an animal with a full belly is feeling pretty good.  Finding a place in the sun after a freezing night, added to that full stomach, even better.  Good things had, with the right acts done to achieve them.

To me, it shows ideas like "good, bad" "right, wrong" absolutely do exist in nature.

Then, we must acknowledge an animal protecting other animals, showing affection for other animals, warning other animals in danger, bringing food to other animals, and events like that.

Bottom line, these don't look to be ideas that are merely part of some fantastical delusion.  They are real.

Agreed - yes very much the are real.
Only the same animals can turn & kill one & other & its own at any time & not ever think about it.
Nature is a Wonderful thing at times
And at other times Very Cruel & Brutal

Nature - Survival of the fittest / strongest

We as Humans look to place our thoughts / Values / emotions etc on animals

Itís a very interesting topic as clearly some animals at times exhibit actions & behaviour we recognise.
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« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2018, 02:39:29 PM »

Youíre completely Crackers
Psych drugs  Roll Eyes is that because you canít Handle the truth.
In Nature & The Universe There is No Right or Wrong & No Good Or Bad
Are you to Stupid to see that.

And we are still in a very primitive state - look at all the atrocities humans do to each other
Everyday all over the world in every country.

What Humans want to Percieve & Decide is Right & Wrong - Good & Bad is a Entirely
Different Subject.
If you think we are still in a primitive state you are the one who is crackers.  Do animals invent airplanes, trains, ships, medical technology, computers, etc, etc?  Humans are separated from the animals by our intelligent conscious minds which create ethics, laws and cultures that foster innovation for all of society.  Sure there are a small percentage of criminals (most of whom have your nihilistic mindset) but the vast majority of humans are good and that's why we have all the things we have.  With your negative victim mindset about the world I'm guessing you are a liberal; am I right?
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illuminati
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« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2018, 03:00:46 PM »

If you think we are still in a primitive state you are the one whose crackers.  Do animals invent airplanes, trains, ships, medical technology, computers, etc, etc?  Humans are separated from the animals by our intelligent conscious minds which create ethics, laws and cultures that foster innovation for all of society.  Sure there are a small percentage of criminals (most of whom have your nihilistic mindset) but the vast majority of humans are good and that's why we have all the things we have.  With your negative victim mindset about the world I'm guessing you are a liberal; am I right?

Ha ha ha A Fooking Liberal - Well Thatís an ultimate insult.
Jeez man there was No Need for That.

We clearly have very differing views & thoughts
For all The Truly Wonderful & Marvellous things that have been achieved
And invented by Humans - There are to numerous things to list which are bad & indicative
Of Primitive Behaviour.

Think on.
Letís imagine That Electricity stopped being Produced & no fuel could be pumped
Then no food could be transported to large cities say like NY
How long before the shops were bare & People Turned on one & other for their food
It wouldnít take long in a city ( a few weeks max ) Before people would be Killing
Each other - Survival of the Fittest/ Strongest - So much for Modern man
The Primative Man & his instincts would soon take over.

I hope it never happens - Only Iím under no illusion.
Being aware is part way to being prepared.
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« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2018, 03:19:48 PM »

That is part of the human condition, balancing the primitive animal nature and the godlike spiritual mind.
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« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2018, 05:38:59 PM »

Agreed - yes very much the are real.
Only the same animals can turn & kill one & other & its own at any time & not ever think about it.
Nature is a Wonderful thing at times
And at other times Very Cruel & Brutal

Nature - Survival of the fittest / strongest

We as Humans look to place our thoughts / Values / emotions etc on animals

Itís a very interesting topic as clearly some animals at times exhibit actions & behaviour we recognise.

Not to say such basic differentiation doesn't take place on any level, though, right?  (IOW: you don't believe an animal's actions are just random spasms, completely unconnected to knowledge or/of the animal's own experience in life.)  

Meaning, "not ever think about it", isn't an accurate description and cannot serve as one.  Mustn't you agree, illuminati?

You, being one of the more thoughtful, logical, reasonable posters, should question why you'd propose that.

Is it this: That, otherwise, you'd be made to acknowledge such a definitive state of truth -- regarding "good, bad" "right, wrong"  -- that you realize it cannot be subject to your own natural capabilities to "know better than".

In other words, you cannot control it, (and yet) you know it awaits to control you and your sense of logic.
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illuminati
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« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2018, 05:55:17 PM »

Not to say such basic differentiation doesn't take place on any level, though, right?  (IOW: you don't believe an animal's actions are just random spasms, completely unconnected to knowledge or/of the animal's own experience in life.)  

Meaning, "not ever think about it", isn't an accurate description and cannot serve as one.  Mustn't you agree, illuminati?

You, being one of the more thoughtful, logical, reasonable posters, should question why you'd propose that.

Is it this: That, otherwise, you'd be made to acknowledge such a definitive state of truth -- that you realize it cannot be subject to your own natural capabilities to "know better than".

In other words, you cannot control it, (and yet) you know it awaits to control you and your sense of logic.


Iím not trying to argue with you or the points you raise.
Itís just Fact that in Nature There is No Right or Wrong / Good or Bad.
Iíve no idea why this is so & to us as humans in our present state with our laws
& morals itís unpalatable.
Only Nature was here long before us & the way some of humanity is going long
After us.
Nature controls us / we donít control nature.
Iím not clever / bright enough to answer for the way Nature is,
I find it wonderful / beautiful / cruel / savage etc in fact all feeling & emotions
Rolled into one.

I see us on this planet as humans as very important & complex
Yet at the same time in the grand scheme of Nature / Universe
We are virtual nothing on a tiny spec of cosmic dust that have zero
Bearing on anything other than our own tiny Spec of dust.
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Humble Narcissist
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« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2018, 11:58:01 AM »


Iím not trying to argue with you or the points you raise.
Itís just Fact that in Nature There is No Right or Wrong / Good or Bad.
Iíve no idea why this is so & to us as humans in our present state with our laws
& morals itís unpalatable.
Only Nature was here long before us & the way some of humanity is going long
After us.
Nature controls us / we donít control nature.
Iím not clever / bright enough to answer for the way Nature is,
I find it wonderful / beautiful / cruel / savage etc in fact all feeling & emotions
Rolled into one.

I see us on this planet as humans as very important & complex
Yet at the same time in the grand scheme of Nature / Universe
We are virtual nothing on a tiny spec of cosmic dust that have zero
Bearing on anything other than our own tiny Spec of dust.
Have you ever considered that maybe instead of being nothing in this universe we are everything?
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illuminati
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« Reply #63 on: October 15, 2018, 12:52:04 PM »

Have you ever considered that maybe instead of being nothing in this universe we are everything?

Good point.
To most people on this planet they are Everything.

Personally I wish I was brighter & understand more also younger to have more time to find out more.
From my perhaps limited view of the universe in the grand scheme of things Iím irrelevant & very nearly
Nothing.

To me itís Very interesting & mind challenging to consider the universe & My own relevance if any at all.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2018, 07:28:50 PM »

ďThere are in nature neither rewards nor punishments ó there are consequences.Ē
― Robert G. Ingersoll, The Christian Religion An Enquiry
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