This is our current 2018 Mr. Olympia - Shawn Rhoden?

[myt1]

One of the components of an "all drugs" guy is if he never comes off. This wasn't common until the all drugs era started. Rhoden knows his body. Stays lean and grows into a contest like the old timers apparently. No gut...

Spot on, but I'm curious to know when you feel the drug era started?  

I have my opinion.  I'm interested to see if you think the same

[oldtimer1]

All drugs.

[oldtimer1]

All Drugs

[oldtimer1]

They say that because of how much a person shrinks when he stops bbing. But it's a cop out. They also stop training and stop eating like a bber.

You can just as easily say it's all food or it's all weight lifting because without either then no muscle.

Hormones will take you further provided the training and diet is there.

They can work out all they want but they will look like a shell of their championship self without drugs. What steroid wonder looks good three months off steroids? I'll wait.

[Pray_4_War]

Page 3 of this thread does an excellent job of defining "all drugs" for those here that have their panties in a bunch.......in both words and photos.

[pellius]

They can work out all they want but they will look like a shell of their championship self without drugs. What steroid wonder looks good three months off steroids? I'll wait.

"Hormones will take you further provided the training and diet are there."

There are tons of guys that look great that are natural. Nick, from Nick's Strength and Health, looks great. He would look better from a competitive bbing standpoint but he is way above the curve for real life.

[Coach is Back!]

The vast majority on here with the exception of a few are clueless

[The Scott]

The vast majority on here with the exception of a few are clueless

I am far from "clueless", good sir.  I have been around for decades and have long known that drugs are the real difference.  Once the original film "Pumping Iron" showcased that fact, Pandora's Syringe was forever out of the box.

And shoved into some idiot's butt cheek.

People tend to want it now, regardless of what "it" is.  In the case of bodybuilding, it is muscle.  Take away Rhoden's supply and he would be puny.  Heath?  Dinky.  The Oak?  A sapling.

Steve Reeves on the other hand, would still be Steve Reeves.  Clarence Ross would be Clarence Ross.  Reg Lewis would, well...You know exactly what I am saying.

And it isn't so much that we're insulted by the top piece of shit drug addict "champions" of the last few decades  but rather their ridiculous lying about it.  They've got crap for DNA.  Don't believe me?

Hot Topic Employee of the Month, Tom Prince.

[Coach is Back!]

I am far from "clueless", good sir.  I have been around for decades and have long known that drugs are the real difference.  Once the original film "Pumping Iron" showcased that fact, Pandora's Syringe was forever out of the box.

And shoved into some idiot's butt cheek.

People tend to want it now, regardless of what "it" is.  In the case of bodybuilding, it is muscle.  Take away Rhoden's supply and he would be puny.  Heath?  Dinky.  The Oak?  A sapling.

Steve Reeves on the other hand, would still be Steve Reeves.  Clarence Ross would be Clarence Ross.  Reg Lewis would, well...You know exactly what I am saying.

And it isn't so much that we're insulted by the top piece of shit drug addict "champions" of the last few decades  but rather their ridiculous lying about it.  They've got crap for DNA.  Don't believe me?

Hot Topic Employee of the Month, Tom Prince.

We are not talking about taking away anything. I'm in full disclosure that drugs are taken and necessary but thats not the point. The point is by saying "All drugs" insinuates that training and dieting are not necessary or as necessary as one might think. This is a complete fallacy and then you have posters putting up comparison pics of Levrone that are freaking 10 years apart over a 20-year span. The the pic of Dillet was how many years apart? How long do you suppose it took Dorian to lose his muscle....years!! It's not they come off a cycle and immediately deflate.

The before and after pic of Mustafa, what was the time span on that? Granted he had health problems (thanks Milos). Lee Preist is completely off-cycle and still trains and looks like it. Don't you think that if they continue to train and eat while off (which is what you should be doing) that this won't retain a lot of the muscle? I know when I come off, I get softer and maybe lose 8-10lbs.

[Zillotch]

How long do you suppose it took Dorian to lose his muscle....years!! It's not they come off a cycle and immediately deflate.

the muscle, that he lost, would not have existed in the first place without drugs, silly

[Coach is Back!]

the muscle, that he lost, would not have existed in the first place without drugs, silly

Fucking A...that’s not what we’re talking about. Did he not train or diet or was that part irrelevant?

[Zillotch]

Did he not train or diet or was that part irrelevant?

yes.... without the drugs, completely.

[ratherbebig]

yes.... without the drugs, completely.

do you reckon a lot of other bodybuilders would've beaten dorian if none of them used drugs?

[Coach is Back!]

yes.... without the drugs, completely.

So you think if all he did were to take drugs and not train and diet, he would have looked the same?

[Zillotch]

So you think if all he did were to take drugs and not train and diet, he would have looked the same?

I think that steroids are a necessary foundation upon which everything else is constructed. take that foundation away, and u have a natural... who would most certainly not look the same.

[SF1900]

So you think if all he did were to take drugs and not train and diet, he would have looked the same?

You're totally missing the point, as usual lol. No one is saying NEVER train and NEVER diet lol. Of course you have to train. However, the emphasis is PRIMARILY on drugs. With good genetics and a lot of drugs, one can still look damn good with shitty training and a subpar diet. That is the point.

Training hard and eating right but with no drugs = a subpar body.

Training minimal and shitty with a subpar diet with a lot of drugs = a big mofo.

Drugs are the all deciding factors and obviously genetics.

Without drugs, Dorian's physique is nowhere even remotely possible. But, with the right stack, the right genetics, and even with bad training and a bad diet, Dorian's physique is still a lot more attainable. You're under playing the power of PEDs.

What's funny, is that you say we don't know what we are talking about, yet you seem totally lost in understanding what we are saying.

You realize back in NYC, I trained with quite a few NPC competitors and powerlifters who were juicing. Just becuase I dont own a personal training business, it doesn't mean I can't tell the obvious power of PEDs over everything else.

[Coach is Back!]

I think that steroids are a necessary foundation upon which everything else is constructed. take that foundation away, and u have a natural... who would most certainly not look the same.

I agree with this. But I will add that IMO, there is no such thing as a "natural" competing bodybuilder but that's another subject for another time. You can go back to the 1990 Olympia to see what a "less enhanced" bodybuilder would have looked like. I was training with JJ Marsh for that and knew what he was taking but at the same time, he was one that also got disqualified.

[Bevo]

Someone define "All drugs" for me. I wanna know. I've been in and around this industry for the better part of 40 years and have ALWAYS kept up to today's standards, drugs, training, diet etc. I've prepped a lot of competitors for shows and now that's probably more than 60% of my online business, my training partners are current IFBB pro's (an I know EXACTLY what they take off-season and come contest prep) the guy I chose to do my prep is a former IFBB pro.

I knew what bodybuilders took back then and I know what the majority are taking now. Of course, you're going to have some that think more is better which is total COMPLETE and utter bullshit and those will be the ones that will more than likely get into trouble.

When people say "all drugs" that means you're dismissing all of the other aspects. Chances are very few if any of you heard Aceto's interview regarding Rhoden. If you heard the ENTIRE interview then lets talk about it. BTW, whoever injected Bostin Loyds name into this, don't. He's a sideshow act.

Define "ALL DRUGS" this irritates the fuck out of me

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

[Coach is Back!]

You're totally missing the point, as usual lol. No one is saying NEVER train and NEVER diet lol. Of course you have to train. However, the emphasis is PRIMARILY on drugs. With good genetics and a lot of drugs, one can still look damn good with shitty training and a subpar diet. That is the point.

Training hard and eating right but with no drugs = a subpar body.

Training minimal and shitty with a subpar diet with a lot of drugs = a big mofo.

Drugs are the all deciding factors and obviously genetics.

Without drugs, Dorian's physique is nowhere even remotely possible. But, with the right stack, the right genetics, and even with bad training and a bad diet, Dorian's physique is still a lot more attainable. You're under playing the power of PEDs.

By saying "All drugs" implies that very little training and diet is necessary and that's exactly what's being implies by some. Bevos above post proves my point.

[SF1900]

By saying "All drugs" implies that very little training and diet are necessary and that's exactly what's being implies by some.

Well, unlike you, I can differentiate between hyperbole and truth. It's obvious that statement was hyperbolic in nature.

Anyway, you're down playing drugs.

You can be a huge mofo with the right genetics, the right stack, shitty training and a subpar diet. How can you even deny this? Just look at any juiced up gym rat.

[Coach is Back!]

Well, unlike you, I can differentiate between hyperbole and truth. It's obvious that statement was hyperbolic in nature.

Anyway, you're down playing drugs.

You can be a huge mofo with the right genetics, the right stack, shitty training and a subpar diet. How can you even deny this? Just look at any juiced up gym rat.

Obviously you can't because those same people keep defending it.

[Coach is Back!]

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

ALL DRUGS

CLUELESS

CLUELESS

CLUELESS

CLUELESS

[Bevo]

You're totally missing the point, as usual lol. No one is saying NEVER train and NEVER diet lol. Of course you have to train. However, the emphasis is PRIMARILY on drugs. With good genetics and a lot of drugs, one can still look damn good with shitty training and a subpar diet. That is the point.

Training hard and eating right but with no drugs = a subpar body.

Training minimal and shitty with a subpar diet with a lot of drugs = a big mofo.

Drugs are the all deciding factors and obviously genetics.

Without drugs, Dorian's physique is nowhere even remotely possible. But, with the right stack, the right genetics, and even with bad training and a bad diet, Dorian's physique is still a lot more attainable. You're under playing the power of PEDs.

What's funny, is that you say we don't know what we are talking about, yet you seem totally lost in understanding what we are saying.

You realize back in NYC, I trained with quite a few NPC competitors and powerlifters who were juicing. Just becuase I dont own a personal training business, it doesn't mean I can't tell the obvious power of PEDs over everything else.

 

Exactly

The drugs make the biggest difference, no one ever said you don’t have to train or eat/diet

From my experience and my own body it’s genetics first and foremost, then drugs and food and training, whichever order for food and training, goes hand in hand

[SF1900]

Obviously you can't because those same people keep defending it.

:::face palm:::

How can one take steroids and never touch a weight and get big?

I think the posters here are smart enough to know that one has to actually lift weights.

They are referring to the fact that you can train with minimal effort and still be big with the right drugs and genetics.

[Coach is Back!]

Exactly

The drugs make the biggest difference, no one ever said you don’t have to train or eat/diet

From my experience and my own body it’s genetics first and foremost, then drugs and food and training, whichever order for food and training, goes hand in hand

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