Boosting test after 40

[myt1]

Notice any sides from that dose?

Not a one!  In fact, I'm crossing my fingers that my blood test is around 1100 or less so I can point out that the line in the sand the Dr. drew was 1200ngs and I'd like to be at least that.

I don't know if you've ever used or not Griffith.  If you haven't, the myriad of side effects are nothing but horse-shit fear invoking nonsense when used rationally.  Other than the obvious testes ascension, the only sides I've ever had were acne (not much, and only in my 20's), puffy cheeks (I have a rounder face anyway), and some hair loss (wrote about this in the hair loss thread....happened when adding Syntex's A-50 to my Testoviron base early 20's, was recommended Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and it stopped immediately....only male on both side of family that has a full head of hair past 25 let alone into 40's...knock on wood)  

I have gone as high as around 1200-1300mgs of total AAS weekly.  I would never go that high again.  For me, everything beyond 900-1000mgs total AAS was a waste of money.  I've gotten stronger on cycles with much less, although I did get stronger quicker on that cycle (obviously I tapered up faster too on that one).  However, it came at the expense of sore shoulders and knees, breaking out more (but still not badly), having to shave more, and generally feeling shittier.  I haven't done a cycle above what prescribed for prolly 10+ years.  Doubt I ever will again.

If you have used, you know that sides and gains are generally person specific.  For some to a great extent, and for others not so much.  That's what drives me insane when it comes to the "all drugs" shit that gets posted here.

[myt1]

So in the end you believe 12/15 sets of squat is not useful at all in giving a little boost to my test? [Strict reps, no cheating, no ego lifting, but very intense]

Am I wrong in remembering this type of suggestion from old mags I used to read?

I guess most of us never really addressed the squat part of your question.  Sorry for doing that on my part.  If Coach reads this and disagrees with me, then I will defer to his post as he knows more than me.  My opinion is:

I think the "big 3" likely do have some impact on test levels when done heavy, and when compared to someone just training normally or with machines.  I also think that that really applies to when a person is 15-25...maybe early 30's depending on if the person started training heavy in mid 20's

Like others have essentially said when you blend all these answers together, you really have 2 choices here:

1) accept that things change with age, and just be happy with going to the gym and feeling/looking better than someone your age that doesn't

2) you can lose your aversion to no longer being a "natty", get your blood work done, and if you don't like the results....you find a Dr. willing to work with you knowledgeably, effectively, and safely.  IMO, this does not include any of these "Male Therapy" type clinics that prescribe based on "membership levels", nor does it include tele-med from a Dr. you'll never shake the hand of in FL or Cali (unless you know wtf you're doing)

Hope some of all that helps you!

[myt1]

I've tried tribulus in reasonably high doses. Psychologically I felt it did me some good, but in the gym the results were so small it wasn't worth it. Creatine had twice the effect.

$-wise?  What brand did you use?  Capsules or tabs?  IMO capsules are much more noticeable....especially in regards to libido, and well....skeet amount  If you shop around on Amazon you can find some great deals.  Met-Rx's and Now Sports' tabs were both good, and I bought like 6 bottles at different times when they were "lightning deals" on Amazon.  For the $5 dollars extra per bottle, I will go back to Ultimate Nutrition's capsules once what I have is gone.

For those taking Tribullus , isn't that toxic to kidneys ?

Never had elevated levels on lab results even while on TRT at the same time  

I'm still natty here, will be 53 in May.  35 years of training.  I was going strong up until about age 47, that's when things started to change.  I've recently been relegated to working out to every 3nd day.  My joints ache a lot more and it takes longer to recover from hard workouts.  Heavy benching and squatting is a thing of the past.  It sucks, but I'm determined to avoid the TRT route as long as possible.

Not being a smart-ass, but why?  Just on principle? Cost? Pain in the ass?  Afraid of sides? <---(see other post if so)

I had prostate cancer. My doctor is just being cautious. Although my PSA is still considered undetectable, it did go up a little which is when he lowered my dosage. He also didn't like that my total testosterone was over 1,000. I feel best when I'm injecting 1 mil a week. Since he lowered the dose, my energy levels have dropped. At my next appointment, I'm going to lobby for an increased dose.

Prime get your %free testosterone, and your estrogen levels tested.  If your total test is over 1000, and your %free test is 2.5-3 I'd agree with your dr. keeping you there based on your age IMO.  The "ideal" range for estrogen in males that labs use is crazy in regards to how high is acceptable.  If results are over 35 you need anastrozole.  See my other post about elevated estrogen levels regarding both CV issues and prostate cancer.  Optimal is 20-30...my opinion based on what I've read.

To all, my posts are just my opinion based on cycles from my younger days, legit trt, and lots of reading going back to when the "Anabolic Reference Guide" was first published.  I am not a dr. or guru of any sorts.  Do not take anything as medical advice.  Get a good Doc and educate yourself.   

[galain]

$-wise?  What brand did you use?  Capsules or tabs?  IMO capsules are much more noticeable....especially in regards to libido, and well....skeet amount  If you shop around on Amazon you can find some great deals.  Met-Rx's and Now Sports' tabs were both good, and I bought like 6 bottles at different times when they were "lightning deals" on Amazon.  For the $5 dollars extra per bottle, I will go back to Ultimate Nutrition's capsules once what I have is gone.

Probably nothing you'll find in the States. I used to be naturopath when I lived in Australia, so herbal medicines were my daily life. I used the best herbal medicine company we had, called Mediherb. I think they may have some lines in the US under the Standard Process banner, but I couldn't tell you if Tribulus was one of them. I went with this company because I knew how they operated. They'd actually stopped production on their Tribulus tabs because they found some of the compounds (the steroidal saponins) were testing lower than average due to growing conditions one season. They did this often - if a product wasn't up to scratch they wouldn't sell it. I figured they were the most reputable company I'd find.

Like I said, I felt hornier, and my mind was sharp, but in the gym, just a very small effect and nothing I'd bother with again.

[The Italian Lifter]

I guess most of us never really addressed the squat part of your question.  Sorry for doing that on my part.  If Coach reads this and disagrees with me, then I will defer to his post as he knows more than me.  My opinion is:

I think the "big 3" likely do have some impact on test levels when done heavy, and when compared to someone just training normally or with machines.  I also think that that really applies to when a person is 15-25...maybe early 30's depending on if the person started training heavy in mid 20's

Like others have essentially said when you blend all these answers together, you really have 2 choices here:

1) accept that things change with age, and just be happy with going to the gym and feeling/looking better than someone your age that doesn't

2) you can lose your aversion to no longer being a "natty", get your blood work done, and if you don't like the results....you find a Dr. willing to work with you knowledgeably, effectively, and safely.  IMO, this does not include any of these "Male Therapy" type clinics that prescribe based on "membership levels", nor does it include tele-med from a Dr. you'll never shake the hand of in FL or Cali (unless you know wtf you're doing)

Hope some odf all that helps you!

Thanks a lot for your answer Myt.
In all honesty I have some doubts about going on HRT, but it's related mostly on the bad experience one close friend of mine had.
It's just one case so it's not a statistic based on studies : long story short he started HRT and after a couple of months he was extremely anxious, even had terrible panic attacks.
So he had to quit and take xanax and antidepressants (Zoloft if I'm not mistaken).
Although I do not know the dose he was on I'm pretty sure he was doing everything properly since a good doc was following him on this.

[galain]

Yeah - I've seen similar things in a couple of friends. I think someone mentioned already, everyone experiences and deals with the side effects differently. Probably a genetic thing. I worked a bit with a compounding pharmacist in Oz, and the change in the guys coming in for their TRT and GH was really astounding. I mean, I'd had friends on gear at the gym too, but these were guys in their 50's and 60's coming in looking younger each month and telling me it was the best money they'd ever spent.

The doctors here in Germany refuse to even discuss it....

[honest]

I use 100mgs every 5 days sometimes I stretch it out to 7-10 days, I try too use as less as possible to get the benefits while strongly considering the possible side effects, i also get a litre of blood out every three months. My doc wants me to use a higher dose as I'm low normal on bloodwork, but I find high testosterone can sometimes also be a distraction with where i am in life. I also come off twice a year just to take some weight off I find i pout on 4-6 kilos with the use and I dont want the weight it just creeps up, and I get to a point where i come off and usually between 4-8 weeks later the weight gain has gone and I can start again. Managing your weight should be as much a consideration i believe. the beauty of using so little is i dont really feel much more one when off and the same when off, when off i just do a lot more cardio than gym as well, so i dont notice the loss of muscle weight  so much.

Just a personal protocol.

[Mr Anabolic]

Not being a smart-ass, but why?  Just on principle? Cost? Pain in the ass?  Afraid of sides? <---(see other post if so)

Not fond of gyno and hair loss, but most importantly... once you start TRT, you'll have to take it forever.  If/when you stop, you turn into a meek little lamb. 

[KSA]

Good food, weight lifting, losing fat around waist, a good sleep, have sex  = test is increased to his normal level.

[Mr Anabolic]

Good food, weight lifting, losing fat around waist, a good sleep, have sex  = test is increased to his normal level.

That stuff definitely helps, but only to a certain point.  Youth fades and age takes over.  It only gets harder and harder. 

[Griffith]

Not a one!  In fact, I'm crossing my fingers that my blood test is around 1100 or less so I can point out that the line in the sand the Dr. drew was 1200ngs and I'd like to be at least that.

I don't know if you've ever used or not Griffith.  If you haven't, the myriad of side effects are nothing but horse-shit fear invoking nonsense when used rationally.  Other than the obvious testes ascension, the only sides I've ever had were acne (not much, and only in my 20's), puffy cheeks (I have a rounder face anyway), and some hair loss (wrote about this in the hair loss thread....happened when adding Syntex's A-50 to my Testoviron base early 20's, was recommended Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and it stopped immediately....only male on both side of family that has a full head of hair past 25 let alone into 40's...knock on wood)  

I have gone as high as around 1200-1300mgs of total AAS weekly.  I would never go that high again.  For me, everything beyond 900-1000mgs total AAS was a waste of money.  I've gotten stronger on cycles with much less, although I did get stronger quicker on that cycle (obviously I tapered up faster too on that one).  However, it came at the expense of sore shoulders and knees, breaking out more (but still not badly), having to shave more, and generally feeling shittier.  I haven't done a cycle above what prescribed for prolly 10+ years.  Doubt I ever will again.

If you have used, you know that sides and gains are generally person specific.  For some to a great extent, and for others not so much.  That's what drives me insane when it comes to the "all drugs" shit that gets posted here.

Thanks for the informative reply!

And no, I have never used, but would definitely consider it if I feel my quality of life is decreasing as I get older.

I have read that 250 mgs of test is a bodybuilding amount though, not that I'd have a problem with that.

[Bevo]

I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.

Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?


In before " go play with sand"😃

You are 45 and you call that old??? What’s going to happen when you are 55??

Vaffanculo!! 

[jdooly]

I've heard both, but it stands for neither.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC/DC

"The band's logo was designed in 1977 by Gerard Huerta. It first appeared on the international version of Let There Be Rock.
Malcolm and Angus Young developed the idea for the band's name after their sister, Margaret Young, saw the initials "AC/DC" on a sewing machine. "AC/DC" is an abbreviation meaning "alternating current/direct current" electricity. The brothers felt that this name symbolised the band's raw energy, power-driven performances of their music"

Hence "High Voltage" being their first release

This.

[The Italian Lifter]

You are 45 and you call that old??? What’s going to happen when you are 55??

Vaffanculo!! 

When you're in the gym surrounded by guys in their 20's moving your poundages without breaking a sweat, any you're about to have an heart attack any minute or shit your pants... That's the moment when you feel old as Noah on his fucking ark.

[Blockhead]

 I’m on TRT.
 100mg or Cyp a week prescribed as long as I donate blood once a month
 and keep good cholesterol levels via diet.

 Obviously I go 100mg every 5 days but that’s beside the point. Per Doctor’s
 orders I come off 3 months out of the year. I always go Dec - Feb.
 Labs right before I come off shows my T levels around 700.

 I decided to use an OTC the last few months and did labs last week as I am
 due to get back ON officially.

 T-levels were in the mid 400’s closer to 500.  Now I have to go cold turkey off
 of the OTC and repeat Labs again. Doc won’t refill me if my t-levels aren’t in the
 low 200’s. FML.

 - Block!

[myt1]

Thanks a lot for your answer Myt.
In all honesty I have some doubts about going on HRT, but it's related mostly on the bad experience one close friend of mine had.
It's just one case so it's not a statistic based on studies : long story short he started HRT and after a couple of months he was extremely anxious, even had terrible panic attacks.
So he had to quit and take xanax and antidepressants (Zoloft if I'm not mistaken).
Although I do not know the dose he was on I'm pretty sure he was doing everything properly since a good doc was following him on this.

NP!  As for the anxiety stuff....I kinda think that's comparable to the whole roid rage thing.  I've only experienced what would be to referred to that 2 times....both times, even Buddha would've been ready to throw down.....one of those times I was not on anything.  In my experience, if a person is an aggressive asshole, and they get on the sauce and get big.....they're going to be a much bigger asshole and more aggressive.  I suffer from anxiety very badly, and the severity is actually somewhat lessened when on test E.  Other than the Dr. fucking up a 5ml script one time, I have not used Cyp for probably close to 20-22 yrs.  Besides the reasons I mentioned for preferring Test E over Cyp, the other big one is that I am very moody and easily agitated on Cyp.....not at all so on Test E.  Good luck with whatever you decide!

Not fond of gyno and hair loss, but most importantly... once you start TRT, you'll have to take it forever.  If/when you stop, you turn into a meek little lamb. 

Completely understand, and agree it's a bit annoying to have to do every week.  I do say the hell with it every once in a while, and within 1-2 months the lamb is strong. 

As for the hair loss; if you are into your 40's and still have your hair, legit TRT is not going to change that.  As I said, I am the only male on both sides of my fam that has used steroids, and I am also the only one with a full head of hair.  I have used Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and saw palmetto since my early 20's when I did notice some hair loss.  It stopped pretty much immediately once I started Nioxin. 

I had probably one of the best connections in America in my teens and early 20's, but was stupid and only did PCT 3x and IDR ever taking nolva so I do have some gyno, but I had it growing up as a chubby lad so who knows.   I just added anastrozole about 2 months ago as my last labs were crazy re: estradiol

Thanks for the informative reply!

And no, I have never used, but would definitely consider it if I feel my quality of life is decreasing as I get older.

I have read that 250 mgs of test is a bodybuilding amount though, not that I'd have a problem with that.

YW!  Wherever you read that....well, let's just say don't bother with that source of info.   

Supra-physiological (i.e. bbing amount) is a term that describes test levels that are beyond the physiological norm.  Drs. specializing in TRT, and sound sources of info would likely use that term when total test blood levels are beyond 1200-1500ngs/dl  Yes, using higher dosages will get you to that point, but there is technically no such thing as a "bbing amount" or "supra-physiological dose" 

To illustrate what I'm saying, take me and Prime as an example.  Prime said he's on .5mls per week (i'm assuming it's 200mgs/ml test C) so he's on 100 mg per week.  His total test blood levels on that 100mgs/wk are over 1000 as he stated.  Then you have me when I was on 1ml (200mgs Test E)/week, and I tested slightly under 1000ngs total test.  So while we're on different forms of test (results would be similar if I was on cyp) he is able to take half as much as me, and ends up with a total test level result of around 100ngs/dl higher than me.  Lucky him.  Cheaper, and less oil going into the body.

[Griffith]

NP!  As for the anxiety stuff....I kinda think that's comparable to the whole roid rage thing.  I've only experienced what would be to referred to that 2 times....both times, even Buddha would've been ready to throw down.....one of those times I was not on anything.  In my experience, if a person is an aggressive asshole, and they get on the sauce and get big.....they're going to be a much bigger asshole and more aggressive.  I suffer from anxiety very badly, and the severity is actually somewhat lessened when on test E.  Other than the Dr. fucking up a 5ml script one time, I have not used Cyp for probably close to 20-22 yrs.  Besides the reasons I mentioned for preferring Test E over Cyp, the other big one is that I am very moody and easily agitated on Cyp.....not at all so on Test E.  Good luck with whatever you decide!

Completely understand, and agree it's a bit annoying to have to do every week.  I do say the hell with it every once in a while, and within 1-2 months the lamb is strong. 

As for the hair loss; if you are into your 40's and still have your hair, legit TRT is not going to change that.  As I said, I am the only male on both sides of my fam that has used steroids, and I am also the only one with a full head of hair.  I have used Nioxin shampoo and conditioner and saw palmetto since my early 20's when I did notice some hair loss.  It stopped pretty much immediately once I started Nioxin. 

I had probably one of the best connections in America in my teens and early 20's, but was stupid and only did PCT 3x and IDR ever taking nolva so I do have some gyno, but I had it growing up as a chubby lad so who knows.   I just added anastrozole about 2 months ago as my last labs were crazy re: estradiol

YW!  Wherever you read that....well, let's just say don't bother with that source of info.   

Supra-physiological (i.e. bbing amount) is a term that describes test levels that are beyond the physiological norm.  Drs. specializing in TRT, and sound sources of info would likely use that term when total test blood levels are beyond 1200-1500ngs/dl  Yes, using higher dosages will get you to that point, but there is technically no such thing as a "bbing amount" or "supra-physiological dose" 

To illustrate what I'm saying, take me and Prime as an example.  Prime said he's on .5mls per week (i'm assuming it's 200mgs/ml test C) so he's on 100 mg per week.  His total test blood levels on that 100mgs/wk are over 1000 as he stated.  Then you have me when I was on 1ml (200mgs Test E)/week, and I tested slightly under 1000ngs total test.  So while we're on different forms of test (results would be similar if I was on cyp) he is able to take half as much as me, and ends up with a total test level result of around 100ngs/dl higher than me.  Lucky him.  Cheaper, and less oil going into the body.

That's very useful info, I did not know it worked like that!

I understand what you're saying here, goes to show how important it is to be under a doctor's supervision and monitor these levels.

[IroNat]

When you're in the gym surrounded by guys in their 20's moving your poundages without breaking a sweat, any you're about to have an heart attack any minute or shit your pants... That's the moment when you feel old as Noah on his fucking ark.

Get real.  You are not 20 anymore.

You don't look like Brad Pitt either.  

The advices to take drugs so you can lift more weight or be buff is foolish.  You then have to keep taking drugs or the illusion goes away.

Here's the best advices:  Train hard and watch your diet.  Don't compete with 20 year olds.  Accept yourself but work for improvement.

45 isn't old.  

[falco]

I have a question for GB experts : being a natty old fart now 45 yo I would probably have the amount of test of a 13 yo girl I guess.

Do you think squats in the 12-15 rep range (at least 12 to 15 sets) can be helpful or a waste of time?


In before " go play with sand"😃

Try to leave the gym stimulated and not decimated. Adjust diet and rest in order to be in a anabolic state 24/7. Heavy squats help on boosting test, but so does proper sleep, and you don't risk popping a vertebrae disk.
More important, convince yourself that you are not 20 years old, and act accordingly.

[The Italian Lifter]

Get real.  You are not 20 anymore.

You don't look like Brad Pitt either.  

The advices to take drugs so you can lift more weight or be buff is foolish.  You then have to keep taking drugs or the illusion goes away.

Here's the best advices:  Train hard and watch your diet.  Don't compete with 20 year olds.  Accept yourself but work for improvement.

45 isn't old.  

Words of wisdom, but sometimes it's difficult to accept aging, especially if training is a big part of your life.
Been training for 30 years, and had to stop only once approx two years ago due to a "frozen shoulder" (very painful, takes ages to recover, spend roughly the equivalent of 4000 bucks).

[myt1]

Get real.  You are not 20 anymore.

You don't look like Brad Pitt either.  

The advices to take drugs so you can lift more weight or be buff is foolish.  You then have to keep taking drugs or the illusion goes away.

Here's the best advices:  Train hard and watch your diet.  Don't compete with 20 year olds.  Accept yourself but work for improvement.

45 isn't old.  

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating to take test for the reasons of "lift more weight or be buff" (those are wonderful additional benefits) 

I'm advocating it's use for anyone with low test levels at any age, to use prescribed testosterone under a real dr's care for better health, mood, energy, and libido.

[myt1]

I’m on TRT.
 100mg or Cyp a week prescribed as long as I donate blood once a month
 and keep good cholesterol levels via diet.

 Obviously I go 100mg every 5 days but that’s beside the point. Per Doctor’s
 orders I come off 3 months out of the year. I always go Dec - Feb.
 Labs right before I come off shows my T levels around 700.

 I decided to use an OTC the last few months and did labs last week as I am
 due to get back ON officially.

 T-levels were in the mid 400’s closer to 500.  Now I have to go cold turkey off
 of the OTC and repeat Labs again. Doc won’t refill me if my t-levels aren’t in the
 low 200’s. FML.

 - Block!

Wow!  

Block,
Since you've made the decision to use, and understand things; why haven't you found a new Dr.?

I'm also rather shocked your dr. has you come off.  Most drs. would be opposed to that, and likely accuse you of using it for bbing cycles if the patient suggested that IME.

[myt1]

Words of wisdom, but sometimes it's difficult to accept aging, especially if training is a big part of your life.
Been training for 30 years, and had to stop only once approx two years ago due to a "frozen shoulder" (very painful, takes ages to recover, spend roughly the equivalent of 4000 bucks).

I've actually never heard that term before this thread, and your posts.  It sounds like it sucks donkey dick.  Hope things are/stay better man!
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

[The Italian Lifter]

I've actually never heard that term before this thread, and your posts.  It sounds like it sucks donkey dick.  Hope things are/stay better man!
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/symptoms-causes/syc-20372684

Basically I had zero range of motion and it was very painful.
2 out of 3 doctors said I need a surgery + 6 months of rehab.
Followed the advice of the older guy: shock waves (painful and expensive), physiotherapy (they just pull the fucking arm till you shit your pants) every day for roughly 7 months.
Next stage was active rehab: couple of months of elastic -gay- bands.
Then, finally dumbbells: first set of laterals I did was 8 reps with 2 lbs.
Fast forward now: I'm using 80% of weight/reps as my former self (25 lbs x 10-12 reps).
Not a stroll in the park but there are worse things in life, I was just stubborn as I always was

[Humble Narcissist]

Is it healthy for a 50 year old to have the test levels of a 20 year old?