Author Topic: Civil religious discussion  (Read 32814 times)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 57206
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2019, 01:53:00 PM »
Iíve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I donít intend to either.


All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways  ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him.  ::)

Now that is consistent with I'd expect from an atheist, and actually makes sense.  It's the Bible-quoting atheists who are a little odd. 

Skeletor

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11125
  • Silence you furry fool!
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 02, 2019, 01:58:15 PM »
Iíve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I donít intend to either.

All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways  ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him.  ::)

James Randi exposed him back in 1973, and kept exposing him after that, but still gullible fools believed Geller... Imagine how many swindlers and charlatans like him through the ages.



7:21 "I don't feel strong".

illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 02, 2019, 02:09:56 PM »
James Randi exposed him back in 1973, and kept exposing him after that, but still gullible fools believed Geller... Imagine how many swindlers and charlatans like him through the ages.



7:21 "I don't feel strong".

Exactly- It Hilarious watching that.
He didnít feel strong & cant just turn it on if not feeling it. !!!
Yet he always felt strong & could perform his tricks in front of
A paying audience he never felt pressured Then  ::)

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 03, 2019, 01:22:33 PM »
Fair enough.
Iíll take that as My answers cannot be Answered in a Reasonable/ Factual Manner Then
And That to Answer Them for me in a satisfactory manner Iíd Have to Suspend Reality
Etc and Be Left With Fairy Tales & God works in mysterious ways.

The problem I have with that type of Answer is That These Monstrous Acts are being done
By Men / Women of God in His Houses of Worship are Real & Factual And Proven
There is No Need to Suspend reality or for fairy tales - Itís Hard Horrible Fact.

Yet when trying to answer why this is allowed in the Name of God it cannot be done
In a Factual manner.

Sorry to Break it To You - There Is No God/s - Nada / Nothing No Heaven or Hell
We here for a brief while Then We Gone. End OF.

I do answer questions, my answers just aren't liked :)

Doesn't negate them in anyway though.

You are correct people on earth engage in sin on a daily basis.  Nonbelievers, believers, etc.....it's unfortunate, but God allows people to engage in sin or seek his will for righteous living.  Why is that God's fault if someone chooses to sin?  He doesn't force or approve of that behavior, but allows the potential for someone to engage in it.  That simple really.  Some people don't want anything to with God and want to live however they want.

Many people love pornography and illegal drugs.  God stands completely opposed to pornography and illegal drugs.  You want nothing to do with God and I don't know your stance on pornography or illegal drugs, but I suspect you'd like the option to indulge if you so choose to, correct?

God affords you that ability in this life to live however you want.  Certainly there may be consequences via human courts for some choices, but God doesn't stop you or make you do anything.   When you're provided with every potential choice your decision making to accept or reject God is the most pure, most honest it can be.  Take away choice and force people to behave in certain manner or limit the scope of their choosing and you introduce persuasion into the decision making that doesn't favor the one making the choice.  God gives you every ability to choose anything for you. 

I know you say God isn't real and all that, but I can easily say God is real...solves nothing.  I have sought God on his terms according to his word and know completely of his reality because I suspended the perspective of the world and chose to know God and I do.  He has revealed himself to me.

Why don't you do the same as a man searching for truth?

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 03, 2019, 01:24:34 PM »
Iíve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I donít intend to either.

All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways  ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him.  ::)

So you self admit no study of the bible yet you know with certainty it's false?  I can't imagine that's how you live the rest of your life.

You have no personal experience of God and no direct knowledge of his word.  You have just a cursory understanding yet that's sufficient for you to dismiss it completely?

You have someone like myself sharing with you God's reality, willing to die for God's will and giving you every tool to know him personally and you reject that testimony and all other evidence without any further investigation.

That's odd to me considering most nonbelievers are professed men and women of science that follow evidence to a conclusion.

illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 03, 2019, 03:19:12 PM »
Quote - Man of Steel
I do answer questions, my answers just aren't liked :)

Doesn't negate them in anyway though.

You are correct people on earth engage in sin on a daily basis.  Nonbelievers, believers, etc.....it's unfortunate, but God allows people to engage in sin or seek his will for righteous living.  Why is that God's fault if someone chooses to sin?  He doesn't force or approve of that behavior, but allows the potential for someone to engage in it.  That simple really.  Some people don't want anything to with God and want to live however they want.

Reply.
1, I keep hearing god/s are all Powerful & Omnipresent- Yet god/s do nothing to stop the abuse by priests / nuns etc on innocent children - No I donít want any thing to do With that sort of a god/s - All that power & present everywhere all the time & Watches Yet does FA to Help.

Many people love pornography and illegal drugs.  God stands completely opposed to pornography and illegal drugs.  You want nothing to do with God and I don't know your stance on pornography or illegal drugs, but I suspect you'd like the option to indulge if you so choose to, correct?

Reply.
2, And Exactly How do you Know what Drugs god/s Against ? Where you get that information from ?
Same For Pornography

God affords you that ability in this life to live however you want.  Certainly there may be consequences via human courts for some choices, but God doesn't stop you or make you do anything.   When you're provided with every potential choice your decision making to accept or reject God is the most pure, most honest it can be.  Take away choice and force people to behave in certain manner or limit the scope of their choosing and you introduce persuasion into the decision making that doesn't favor the one making the choice.  God gives you every ability to choose anything for you.  

Reply.
3,  No god/s doesnít Iíd like to have been a multi billionaire- Thatís No Happened.
And Heís given me the choice not to believe in god/s & I donít as I donít Believe in Fairyís at the end of my garden.

I know you say God isn't real and all that, but I can easily say God is real...solves nothing.  I have sought God on his terms according to his word and know completely of his reality because I suspended the perspective of the world and chose to know God and I do.  He has revealed himself to me.

Reply.
4,  Good For You - The Difference is I donít wish / think youíll go to A Hell as You Do Me as A Non Believer
Why would you Think / Believe That - I donít Think or Wish you Heaven or Hell - I just wish you Good Thoughts & Things.

Why don't you do the same as a man searching for truth?

Reply.
5,  Like Virtually Everyone else Iíve had some Bad & Hard Times where Iíve searched
For a god/s To Help & guide me & - Nothing / Zero


illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 03, 2019, 03:34:03 PM »
So you self admit no study of the bible yet you know with certainty it's false?  I can't imagine that's how you live the rest of your life.

You have no personal experience of God and no direct knowledge of his word.  You have just a cursory understanding yet that's sufficient for you to dismiss it completely?

You have someone like myself sharing with you God's reality, willing to die for God's will and giving you every tool to know him personally and you reject that testimony and all other evidence without any further investigation.

That's odd to me considering most nonbelievers are professed men and women of science that follow evidence to a conclusion.

I havenít studied the Bible / Koran / or any other Religious Books / Word of god/s as Thereís
So many of them all with tales of wonderment/ Miracles Etc

If The Bible is Truth and everything in it Facts - The Same kind of Claims are Made for all the other
Religious Books - Thatís then Getting into the realms of Stupidity- All these events happened
Only Not One Happens Nowadays So It Can Be Recorded For All To See & Believe.
Only happened Millennia ago. Yeah Right.

No I havenít studied all the religious books - Have you studied them all ?
Iíve read enough & heard enough & certainly lived enough to make a Decision god/s Donít exist.

No I have no personal experience with any god - You say you Have ? How ?

Other than a Bible witch one/version as Thereís many different ones around
What other tools have you given me.?
 

TheGrinch

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2711
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #82 on: July 04, 2019, 08:50:55 AM »
Just because someone can't prove something exists doesn't mean it doesn't

EX:

Before 1666 nobody knew light was made up of various colors/waves so using that logic before prisms were invented microwaves and ultraviolet light didn't exist?


What if humans simply haven't perfected their ability to see and feel God with 100% certainty yet and we are living in 1665 in terms of our ability to see various forms of energy that we previously thought could not possibly exist?

illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #83 on: July 04, 2019, 08:57:05 AM »
Just because someone can't prove something exists doesn't mean it doesn't

EX:

Before 1666 nobody knew light was made up of various colors/waves so using that logic before prisms were invested microwaves and ultraviolet light didn't exist?


What if humans simply haven't perfected their ability to see and feel God with 100% certainty yet and we are living in 1665 in terms of our ability to see various forms of energy that we previously thought could not possibly exist?

Very good points.

Only some claim to have ďseen/ felt / Been in contactĒ with god/s on a ďspiritualĒ
Or personal level + Some claim god/ Jesus was on earth a couple of thousand years ago.

Maybe we do need some kind of ďprismĒ for the masses to see the or these god/s

Agnostic007

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12013
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #84 on: July 04, 2019, 05:33:40 PM »
Just because someone can't prove something exists doesn't mean it doesn't

EX:

Before 1666 nobody knew light was made up of various colors/waves so using that logic before prisms were invented microwaves and ultraviolet light didn't exist?


What if humans simply haven't perfected their ability to see and feel God with 100% certainty yet and we are living in 1665 in terms of our ability to see various forms of energy that we previously thought could not possibly exist?

philosophically this could apply to a supernatural being. However I don't think it would apply to the biblical god

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2019, 12:15:09 PM »
Quote - Man of Steel
I do answer questions, my answers just aren't liked :)

Doesn't negate them in anyway though.

You are correct people on earth engage in sin on a daily basis.  Nonbelievers, believers, etc.....it's unfortunate, but God allows people to engage in sin or seek his will for righteous living.  Why is that God's fault if someone chooses to sin?  He doesn't force or approve of that behavior, but allows the potential for someone to engage in it.  That simple really.  Some people don't want anything to with God and want to live however they want.

Reply.
1, I keep hearing god/s are all Powerful & Omnipresent- Yet god/s do nothing to stop the abuse by priests / nuns etc on innocent children - No I donít want any thing to do With that sort of a god/s - All that power & present everywhere all the time & Watches Yet does FA to Help.

Many people love pornography and illegal drugs.  God stands completely opposed to pornography and illegal drugs.  You want nothing to do with God and I don't know your stance on pornography or illegal drugs, but I suspect you'd like the option to indulge if you so choose to, correct?

Reply.
2, And Exactly How do you Know what Drugs god/s Against ? Where you get that information from ?
Same For Pornography

God affords you that ability in this life to live however you want.  Certainly there may be consequences via human courts for some choices, but God doesn't stop you or make you do anything.   When you're provided with every potential choice your decision making to accept or reject God is the most pure, most honest it can be.  Take away choice and force people to behave in certain manner or limit the scope of their choosing and you introduce persuasion into the decision making that doesn't favor the one making the choice.  God gives you every ability to choose anything for you.  

Reply.
3,  No god/s doesnít Iíd like to have been a multi billionaire- Thatís No Happened.
And Heís given me the choice not to believe in god/s & I donít as I donít Believe in Fairyís at the end of my garden.

I know you say God isn't real and all that, but I can easily say God is real...solves nothing.  I have sought God on his terms according to his word and know completely of his reality because I suspended the perspective of the world and chose to know God and I do.  He has revealed himself to me.

Reply.
4,  Good For You - The Difference is I donít wish / think youíll go to A Hell as You Do Me as A Non Believer
Why would you Think / Believe That - I donít Think or Wish you Heaven or Hell - I just wish you Good Thoughts & Things.

Why don't you do the same as a man searching for truth?

Reply.
5,  Like Virtually Everyone else Iíve had some Bad & Hard Times where Iíve searched
For a god/s To Help & guide me & - Nothing / Zero



1.) First things first, Catholics aren't Christians....they are Roman Catholics and I realize how that may offend some RCs although that isn't my intention.  Christians that defied the RC church rose up in protest against what the RC church had evolved into.   My answer above about sin applies to all people including nuns and priests.  If nuns and priests hurt children/people they aren't believers in Christ....they are nominal believers that in reality stand opposed to him.   You're either aligned completely with Christ or you are not.  There is no gray area.  These folks can become genuine believers, but they have to repent and be made new.

2.) Within the book of Galatians Paul notes the sin of sorcery which is rooted in the koine greek term pharmakeia (english derivation is "pharmacy").  This isn't indicating that medicines in general are bad.  The context is about sorcery and witchcraft and avoiding making or partaking in elicit drugs (potions) for purposes of engaging in witchcraft, the occult or abusing drugs in general for non-medical purposes and allowing it consume a person creating addictions that oppose God's will for our lives.

3.)  You can still choose to be a billionaire...that choice is 100% in tact.  I should add that the prayer of a Christian to God is not like a person rubbing a magic lamp and a genie granting wishes.  In fact, scripture states that God doesn't recognize the prayers of the unrepentant sinner.  It also says in the book of James that "You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures."  I'm not suggesting you wouldn't do good things with a billion bucks, but thought I would note this regardless.

4.) I don't wish hell upon anyone.  If I wished for folks to exist eternally in hell I wouldn't ever post on these boards or share my faith.  That would be the most unloving thing I could do.  Now, hell is the absence of God.  Every pleasure we enjoy in this life emanates from the divine nature of God.  People don't understand that each breathe they take, each sip of coffee they enjoy, each moment of hope they feel, each lesson they learn, each instance of laughter they share with a friend, each good meal enjoyed is all attributed to the nature and character of God.  In this life we merely receive a taste of God's goodness, but sin has contaminated this world in evil and Jesus Christ is the solution...he's the cure for our plague of sin. When people go to their graves in opposition of God he honors that choice in eternity and sends those folks to exist in a place in which all of his attributes are removed....what is left is the realization of wrongdoing, an eternal reminder of choices made despite pleading by believers such as myself not to.  Hell is existence without God.  As C.S. Lewis so eloquently put in, "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' "

5.) I'm sorry you've gone through hard times or that the church experience you've had has been poor.  There are a lot of nominal believers in the world that pervert the message of Christ and live  a life completely at odds with the righteousness they profess.  I can only encourage you not to give up on God or yourself for that matter.   You and every member of these boards are precious to God.  He desires that you seek his righteousness for your own.

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2019, 12:22:46 PM »
I havenít studied the Bible / Koran / or any other Religious Books / Word of god/s as Thereís
So many of them all with tales of wonderment/ Miracles Etc

If The Bible is Truth and everything in it Facts - The Same kind of Claims are Made for all the other
Religious Books - Thatís then Getting into the realms of Stupidity- All these events happened
Only Not One Happens Nowadays So It Can Be Recorded For All To See & Believe.
Only happened Millennia ago. Yeah Right.

No I havenít studied all the religious books - Have you studied them all ?
Iíve read enough & heard enough & certainly lived enough to make a Decision god/s Donít exist.

No I have no personal experience with any god - You say you Have ? How ?

Other than a Bible witch one/version as Thereís many different ones around
What other tools have you given me.?
 

Yes the same kinds of claims are made for every world religion.  Christianity is the only exception because of Jesus Christ, his resurrection, the Holy Spirit and that fact that Christianity is not a works-based faith.

Every other system of belief requires works in order to achieve "god points", yet you won't find folks within those faith systems that have 100% assurance that their eternity is secure....they exist in perpetual doubt performing work after work with no real understanding if what they are doing is enough.

Faith in Jesus Christ is absolute and certain and void of works....you can't earn salvation in Christ.

When it comes to biblical translations we're now stepping into the field of textual criticism which we can discuss if you want.

I think many confuse the terms transmission of information and translation of information.  Yes there are many different languages in which the original texts in hebrew and koine greek have been translated and despite some differences in wording the core message of the translation is consistent and in tact....Jesus Christ is our only way to be saved.

I can speak more about this if you'd like, but it's a different topic altogether.

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #87 on: July 19, 2019, 05:40:37 AM »
It's funny....I start posting a bit more and suddenly ALL board traffic stops.  

Oh well guess I'm done with these boards again.   ;D

Well.....bye.



illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2019, 09:02:13 AM »
It's funny....I start posting a bit more and suddenly ALL board traffic stops.  

Oh well guess I'm done with these boards again.   ;D

Well.....bye.




MOS as much as I may disagree & Question What you have to say
Iím very appreciative that you take the time to reply in a decent
Civil & honest Manner.
Iíd like to think you will stay & Post more often
We need all the decent posters to stay.

Iím in a rush so will look through your longer previous post and reply
Sometime over the weekend.

Agnostic007

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12013
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #89 on: July 19, 2019, 09:55:03 AM »
Yes the same kinds of claims are made for every world religion.  Christianity is the only exception because of Jesus Christ, his resurrection, the Holy Spirit and that fact that Christianity is not a works-based faith.

Every other system of belief requires works in order to achieve "god points", yet you won't find folks within those faith systems that have 100% assurance that their eternity is secure....they exist in perpetual doubt performing work after work with no real understanding if what they are doing is enough. You are simply arguing that your religions system is "better" without providing any evidence of it. I would argue a system that rewards good behavior and deeds beats one that simply hands it to you for saying your believe it

Faith in Jesus Christ is absolute and certain and void of works....you can't earn salvation in Christ. Except that James says faith without works is dead. So you do need good works

When it comes to biblical translations we're now stepping into the field of textual criticism which we can discuss if you want.

I think many confuse the terms transmission of information and translation of information.  Yes there are many different languages in which the original texts in hebrew and koine greek have been translated and despite some differences in wording the core message of the translation is consistent and in tact....Jesus Christ is our only way to be saved. Until you point out KJV says God created evil, or condoned slavery, or demanded that rape victims marry their rapists, and then Christians fall over themselves to say the translations are in error 

I can speak more about this if you'd like, but it's a different topic altogether.

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2019, 07:37:20 AM »


My second sentence of that post is all the proof any person on earth will ever need.

You're confusing being saved by grace through faith with demonstrations of Christ like behavior when believers are sanctified.  You interpret James with a cursory understanding.

Book of Amos argument on "God created evil" I've covered a dozen times.  In fact:

loco, the KJV of the bible is the atheist's playground.  As you indicated, modern translations clarify the dated language used without losing the context and meaning of scripture.  Modern translations better define the use of evil as calamity and disaster.  References to the creation of evil by God such as in the book of Amos is translated as calamity or destruction (as an example).  I've done this same dance with Agnostic before.

You know what?  I'm not gonna search out my post history for this nonsense.  I've covered your rape, slavery, works and created evil "go to" arguments more times than I have fingers and toes to count.

Dude don't spend eternity gnashing your teeth over the decisions you made in this life.  Man I don't want that for you but you heart is so hardened you refuse to accept definite, accurate, honest, loving corrections to your errored understanding of God and his word.  You love your arguments more than the truth of their error and you won't budge from that place of pride.  I believe you've bought the lie because you've repeated it so many times it's engrained now.

Sadly I can't do anything else for you or others in your predicament.  I can't soften hearts or change minds or draw people to Christ in salvation.  


Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2019, 07:41:49 AM »
MOS as much as I may disagree & Question What you have to say
Iím very appreciative that you take the time to reply in a decent
Civil & honest Manner.
Iíd like to think you will stay & Post more often
We need all the decent posters to stay.

Iím in a rush so will look through your longer previous post and reply
Sometime over the weekend.

People get busy and I understand that.

Man respond when you free up.  Take care of you and yours first.

All good!


Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2019, 07:18:54 AM »
Test post....yeah Agnostic I'm still able to post. 

You weren't viewing as a guest and attempted to post and it prevented you maybe?

I've done that before and then realized I wasn't logged in.

Agnostic007

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12013
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2019, 02:05:09 PM »
Thanks Dos!

illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2019, 11:19:24 PM »
Thread has been re opened I see
Why or what was the matter with it
I didnít get a reply from the PM I sent MOS.


Agnostic007

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12013
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2019, 10:56:58 AM »
Thread has been re opened I see
Why or what was the matter with it
I didnít get a reply from the PM I sent MOS.



Probably just an accident

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 57206
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2019, 07:41:43 PM »
Probably just an accident

Most likely.

Man of Steel

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19374
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2019, 10:43:41 AM »
Thread has been re opened I see
Why or what was the matter with it
I didnít get a reply from the PM I sent MOS.



Sorry man I missed it.  agnostic is correct, just an accident.

Fortunately DE got it figured out.

Methyl m1ke

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 764
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2019, 11:30:59 AM »

2.) Within the book of Galatians Paul notes the sin of sorcery which is rooted in the koine greek term pharmakeia (english derivation is "pharmacy").  This isn't indicating that medicines in general are bad.  The context is about sorcery and witchcraft and avoiding making or partaking in elicit drugs (potions) for purposes of engaging in witchcraft, the occult or abusing drugs in general for non-medical purposes and allowing it consume a person creating addictions that oppose God's will for our lives.


I agree with the last part but disagree with the first. Or perhaps you've missed the numerous references to "manna from heaven" which clearly points to psilocybe mushroom consumption...

------------------------------------Manna From Heaven
by
Steve Kubby
polish transl. http://www.psilosophy.info/bynfnbdzbebxarbbceapbhfh
original report: http://deoxy.org/manna.htm

From Psychedelic Illuminations Volume 1, Issue VII
Illustration by Gustave Dorť



There are a great many people who would never consider the use of visionary plants to be a spiritual experience. These people believe that spiritual experiences must come directly from God and that the use of visionary plants goes against the teachings of the Bible. Contrary to this notion, the Bible never explicitly prohibits the use of visionary plants or potions. What you will find however, is many curious references to a spiritual food sent down from heaven by God, called manna.

The Bible never tells us exactly what manna was and where it came from, but there are many Old Testament passages which describe its physical qualities and conditions associated with its appearance. The Bible's first reference to manna is in the Book of Exodus as the children of Israel are fleeing from Egypt and following Moses into the wilderness. After six weeks of wandering, they began complaining to Moses that they are tired and hungry. What happens next is truly extraordinary:

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no (16:4).

And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground (16:14). And when the children of Israel saw if, they said one to another It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
When I read this passage, I was struck by the fact that manna easily fits the description of psilocybe mushrooms. For one thing magic mushrooms are small and round, and since they sprout so rapidly they would seem to appear overnight, as if out of the sky. Also, anyone harvesting them would immediately notice that they turn blue where torn and had no roots, giving more reason to believe that the mushrooms were of celestial origin. Note that manna does not just fall from heaven, but instead it is described as coming with the frost and dew, during the wet seasons. These are the precise weather conditions for mushrooms to thrive. And finally, manna is described as a bread.

Although translations have obscured the intent of this passage, it seems to be a description of how to find and identify manna and distinguish it from other non-psychoactive (or possibly lethal) mushrooms. Look for the small round things which are like bread, come with the rain, and seem to have heavenly (bluish) coloring. Psilocybe mushrooms also sprout in tiny pin heads which branch out in all directions and bear a resemblance to hoar frost.

It is also interesting to note that Moses tells the children of Israel that manna comes directly from Heaven to test them on whether or not they will walk in God's law. Here is evidence that manna was endowed with unusual spiritual powers, like those of magic mushrooms. However, manna does not automatically confer spiritual power. Instead, it serves as a test. Magic mushrooms would provide visionary experiences that would certainly test all who ingested them. Moses also said that the manna is literally the "bread of the lord" which is remarkably similar to the literal Aztec name for psilocybe mushrooms, "flesh of the gods."

But how and why did the manna suddenly appear? Again referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.

In Exodus 12:19-20, we find more references to manna.
Anyone familiar with wild mushrooms knows that they go bad very quickly and shrivel up under the heat of the sun, exactly like manna.

It seems curious that Moses recognized the manna instantly when the children of Israel showed it to him. He knew that the manna would spoil if it was not picked and eaten in the morning. But how did Moses know about manna? Perhaps Moses knew about manna because he had already encountered the mushroom at the time he saw the burning bush. Referring to an earlier period of his life, we find that Moses:

...kept a flock of Jethro, his father in-law the priest of Midiam: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb (3:1). And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed (3:2).
Had Moses eaten the sacred mushroom while camped at the mountain? Here again we can only speculate that manure from his flock and a change in climate had created the proper environment for the mushrooms to fruit. Perhaps Moses ingested the mushrooms purely by accident, or perhaps his father in law, who we know was also a priest, had introduced Moses to the mushroom. Archaeological evidence of psychedelic mushroom use in Biblical times is well documented by Terence McKenna, so it is reasonable to conclude that Moses could have had some experience with visionary mushrooms.1

Later, in Numbers 11:6-9, manna is again described in terms that are remarkably similar to magic mushrooms:

But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes. And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdelliaum. And the people went about and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar and baked it in pans: and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.
Here we find manna described as before our eyes, having a neutral taste like fresh oil, and once again, the Bible mentions that manna appearing in the morning when the dew fell. The Old Testament even tells us what manna looks like, the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof. When psilocybe mushrooms are dried, their range of colors is virtually identical to dried coriander seed. In both cases, with mushrooms and coriander seeds, we see great similarities in the texture, color, tones, contrasts and general visual appearance. The Children of Israel must have given great thought about how to transmit the appearance of manna so as to aid future generations who might encounter it. However, mushrooms were a mystery to the Hebrews and they were unable to predict where manna could be found. Little did they realize that the manure from their cattle was providing a means for the mushroom to find its way into their mountain campsites.

Notice that the manna was ground in mills or beat it in a mortar. That is odd because earlier we are told that manna was quite delicate and, then the sun wax hot, it melted. However, if manna was the psilocybe mushroom, then it was probably dried and then ground in order to be used for baking. In fact, dried magic mushrooms are quite hard. Grinding or crushing the dried mushroom and then baking with the powder would insure that the delicate psychoactive molecules retained their highest potency.

In the next passage, the Bible describes manna as having light tan color and texture like a wafer, certainly an accurate description of the color and texture of a dried psilocybe mushroom. We also learn that the taste of manna is no longer that of fresh oil but rather that of honey. According to McKenna's research, honey has long been used in Mexico as a preserve medium for psilocybin containing mushrooms. Perhaps the children of Israel had begun to mix honey with the manna to preserve its potency. We find that Moses announced that manna must be kept for future generations:

And the house of Israel called the name there of manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey (l6:31). And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth. Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations: that they may see the bread where with I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt (l6:32).
Again we are told to fill an omer with manna. But how much is a omer? Isaac Asimov, in his book on the Bible, concludes that an omer is about four liters, while the King James version of the Bible estimates an omer to be six pints. Psilocybe mushrooms are 92% water and only 8% remains when they are dried. Also, fresh mushroom take up a lot of space, due to their shape. So four liters of fresh magic mushrooms would yield less than a tenth of a liter, or about 1/4 cup of dried, powdered manna This corresponds closely with the amount of magic mushrooms required for a moderately strong dose when used for baking. This is important because it clearly shows that not only does manna have similar qualities to magic mushrooms, it also shows that it was also used in the same quantity as mushrooms. So manna matches psilocybe mushroom on both a qualitative and quantitative analysis providing a compelling argument that psilocybe mushrooms are in actuality "manna from Heaven."

Of course there are those who will remain eternally skeptical, but keep in mind that the description of manna given in the old testament bears an exact resemblance to mushrooms. Even if psilocybe mushrooms are not manna the similarities have indicated mushrooms as a possible candidate, and they certainly fit the bill for a "spiritual food". Unfortunately, when the Children of Israel finally reach the arid land of Canaan, the mysterious manna no longer appeared.

And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land: neither had the children of Israel manna any more (Joshua 5:12).
The children of Israel must have been deeply disappointed when they ran out of their sacred manna. We can see that they went to great lengths to preserve their knowledge about identifying and using manna The Old Testament contains detailed information about the color, texture, appearance, and relationship to dew, and the Old Testament even explains how manna is to be ground and then used in baking cakes. If the Israelites thought that manna was a magical event caused by God would they have bothered to note all the details about the identification of manna? What about the manna that Moses said must be put away for future generations? Turning to Hebrews 9:3-4 we find:

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all: Which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna.
Here we learn that manna was to be kept in the Holiest of all, the Ark of the Covenant. Clearly, the manna was something of great spiritual power since the Hebrews treated it with such reverence and even went to such great lengths to see that manna be given to future generations. We must also consider the covenant that the Jewish people held with God which was celebrated through the act of circumcision. Why was this covenant with God associated with the removal of foreskin from infant males. Why not a tattoo, scar, article of clothing or jewelry? Perhaps the answer is that the circumcised penis bears a remarkable resemblance to psilocybe mushroom just before the partial veil has broken away from the mushroom caps and they are at their greatest potency. If the Ark of the Covenant was specifically built to store manna it is logical was also tied to manna through the ritual act of circumcision, which gave each Jewish male his own mushroom-like penis.

The discovery that manna was (and is) psilocybe mushrooms is not simply an issue of theological or academic debate. So great was the power conferred by manna, that this small band of wandering slaves were able to defeat all enemies who crossed their path even when confronted by armies that were bigger and better equipped. Jews, Christians and Moslems can all trace their roots to the children of Israel who ate manna for forty years and saw themselves as God's chosen people. Again, we are reminded of McKenna's thesis that those who ate psilocybe mushrooms had a survival advantage due to better visual acuity, heightened senses, better hunting skills, and for the children of Israel, better warrior skills. Manna gave the Hebrews their own covenant with God one that is even recognized today by Christians who believe that the Jews have already earned a special place as the Chosen People. Bible scholar Grant Jeffrey explains:

"The covenant which God made with Abraham and the kingdom promises to David, Solomon and all the prophets will be finally realized in the Millennial Kingdom... the Lord promised a new covenant with Ismel in which He would give them a new heart, forgiveness of sin, and the infilling of the Spirit to the renewed nation. This promised kingdom will provide the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of the Chosen People forever."3

What is the new covenant? It is the rediscovery of manna. Across the gulf of thousands of years the Bible transmits and accurate and detailed description of manna waiting for the time when the message can be decoded and manna can again fulfill its role as a celestial messenger. Manna was the basis of the Jewish covenant with God. Indeed, it is this covenant and the use of manna which has set the Jews apart as the Chosen People. The Bible is not the message, it only points the way. Manna is the holy sacrament that provides the means for God to "prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."

If manna is indeed the psilocybin mushroom, then this means that the Koran, Bible, and Torah were all inspired by psychedelically induced visions. The very foundations upon which these religions rest were derived from the mushroom experience. Moses and the children of Israel used the mushrooms as true sacraments to communicate with a Higher Power, also known as Allah, God and Yahweh. The discovery that manna is real and is available to us today means that like children of Israel we too can use manna to experience the joy, wisdom and spiritual renewal of the Chosen People.

Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins) p. 84.
Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins), p. 127.
Grant R. Jeffrey, Heaven the last Frontier, (New York; Bantam), p. 132.--------------------------------------------------

Now, i'm not saying this guy is 100% right, but I definitely feel he is probably correct. I mean come on dude, "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."  <------whoever observed all of that was clearly tripping balls.

Just sayin...

illuminati

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11863
  • The Strongest Shall Survive.- Lest we Forget.
Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2019, 04:01:48 PM »
I agree with the last part but disagree with the first. Or perhaps you've missed the numerous references to "manna from heaven" which clearly points to psilocybe mushroom consumption...

------------------------------------Manna From Heaven
by
Steve Kubby
polish transl. http://www.psilosophy.info/bynfnbdzbebxarbbceapbhfh
original report: http://deoxy.org/manna.htm

From Psychedelic Illuminations Volume 1, Issue VII
Illustration by Gustave Dorť



There are a great many people who would never consider the use of visionary plants to be a spiritual experience. These people believe that spiritual experiences must come directly from God and that the use of visionary plants goes against the teachings of the Bible. Contrary to this notion, the Bible never explicitly prohibits the use of visionary plants or potions. What you will find however, is many curious references to a spiritual food sent down from heaven by God, called manna.

The Bible never tells us exactly what manna was and where it came from, but there are many Old Testament passages which describe its physical qualities and conditions associated with its appearance. The Bible's first reference to manna is in the Book of Exodus as the children of Israel are fleeing from Egypt and following Moses into the wilderness. After six weeks of wandering, they began complaining to Moses that they are tired and hungry. What happens next is truly extraordinary:

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no (16:4).

And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground (16:14). And when the children of Israel saw if, they said one to another It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
When I read this passage, I was struck by the fact that manna easily fits the description of psilocybe mushrooms. For one thing magic mushrooms are small and round, and since they sprout so rapidly they would seem to appear overnight, as if out of the sky. Also, anyone harvesting them would immediately notice that they turn blue where torn and had no roots, giving more reason to believe that the mushrooms were of celestial origin. Note that manna does not just fall from heaven, but instead it is described as coming with the frost and dew, during the wet seasons. These are the precise weather conditions for mushrooms to thrive. And finally, manna is described as a bread.

Although translations have obscured the intent of this passage, it seems to be a description of how to find and identify manna and distinguish it from other non-psychoactive (or possibly lethal) mushrooms. Look for the small round things which are like bread, come with the rain, and seem to have heavenly (bluish) coloring. Psilocybe mushrooms also sprout in tiny pin heads which branch out in all directions and bear a resemblance to hoar frost.

It is also interesting to note that Moses tells the children of Israel that manna comes directly from Heaven to test them on whether or not they will walk in God's law. Here is evidence that manna was endowed with unusual spiritual powers, like those of magic mushrooms. However, manna does not automatically confer spiritual power. Instead, it serves as a test. Magic mushrooms would provide visionary experiences that would certainly test all who ingested them. Moses also said that the manna is literally the "bread of the lord" which is remarkably similar to the literal Aztec name for psilocybe mushrooms, "flesh of the gods."

But how and why did the manna suddenly appear? Again referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.

In Exodus 12:19-20, we find more references to manna.
Anyone familiar with wild mushrooms knows that they go bad very quickly and shrivel up under the heat of the sun, exactly like manna.

It seems curious that Moses recognized the manna instantly when the children of Israel showed it to him. He knew that the manna would spoil if it was not picked and eaten in the morning. But how did Moses know about manna? Perhaps Moses knew about manna because he had already encountered the mushroom at the time he saw the burning bush. Referring to an earlier period of his life, we find that Moses:

...kept a flock of Jethro, his father in-law the priest of Midiam: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb (3:1). And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed (3:2).
Had Moses eaten the sacred mushroom while camped at the mountain? Here again we can only speculate that manure from his flock and a change in climate had created the proper environment for the mushrooms to fruit. Perhaps Moses ingested the mushrooms purely by accident, or perhaps his father in law, who we know was also a priest, had introduced Moses to the mushroom. Archaeological evidence of psychedelic mushroom use in Biblical times is well documented by Terence McKenna, so it is reasonable to conclude that Moses could have had some experience with visionary mushrooms.1

Later, in Numbers 11:6-9, manna is again described in terms that are remarkably similar to magic mushrooms:

But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes. And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdelliaum. And the people went about and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar and baked it in pans: and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.
Here we find manna described as before our eyes, having a neutral taste like fresh oil, and once again, the Bible mentions that manna appearing in the morning when the dew fell. The Old Testament even tells us what manna looks like, the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof. When psilocybe mushrooms are dried, their range of colors is virtually identical to dried coriander seed. In both cases, with mushrooms and coriander seeds, we see great similarities in the texture, color, tones, contrasts and general visual appearance. The Children of Israel must have given great thought about how to transmit the appearance of manna so as to aid future generations who might encounter it. However, mushrooms were a mystery to the Hebrews and they were unable to predict where manna could be found. Little did they realize that the manure from their cattle was providing a means for the mushroom to find its way into their mountain campsites.

Notice that the manna was ground in mills or beat it in a mortar. That is odd because earlier we are told that manna was quite delicate and, then the sun wax hot, it melted. However, if manna was the psilocybe mushroom, then it was probably dried and then ground in order to be used for baking. In fact, dried magic mushrooms are quite hard. Grinding or crushing the dried mushroom and then baking with the powder would insure that the delicate psychoactive molecules retained their highest potency.

In the next passage, the Bible describes manna as having light tan color and texture like a wafer, certainly an accurate description of the color and texture of a dried psilocybe mushroom. We also learn that the taste of manna is no longer that of fresh oil but rather that of honey. According to McKenna's research, honey has long been used in Mexico as a preserve medium for psilocybin containing mushrooms. Perhaps the children of Israel had begun to mix honey with the manna to preserve its potency. We find that Moses announced that manna must be kept for future generations:

And the house of Israel called the name there of manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey (l6:31). And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth. Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations: that they may see the bread where with I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt (l6:32).
Again we are told to fill an omer with manna. But how much is a omer? Isaac Asimov, in his book on the Bible, concludes that an omer is about four liters, while the King James version of the Bible estimates an omer to be six pints. Psilocybe mushrooms are 92% water and only 8% remains when they are dried. Also, fresh mushroom take up a lot of space, due to their shape. So four liters of fresh magic mushrooms would yield less than a tenth of a liter, or about 1/4 cup of dried, powdered manna This corresponds closely with the amount of magic mushrooms required for a moderately strong dose when used for baking. This is important because it clearly shows that not only does manna have similar qualities to magic mushrooms, it also shows that it was also used in the same quantity as mushrooms. So manna matches psilocybe mushroom on both a qualitative and quantitative analysis providing a compelling argument that psilocybe mushrooms are in actuality "manna from Heaven."

Of course there are those who will remain eternally skeptical, but keep in mind that the description of manna given in the old testament bears an exact resemblance to mushrooms. Even if psilocybe mushrooms are not manna the similarities have indicated mushrooms as a possible candidate, and they certainly fit the bill for a "spiritual food". Unfortunately, when the Children of Israel finally reach the arid land of Canaan, the mysterious manna no longer appeared.

And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land: neither had the children of Israel manna any more (Joshua 5:12).
The children of Israel must have been deeply disappointed when they ran out of their sacred manna. We can see that they went to great lengths to preserve their knowledge about identifying and using manna The Old Testament contains detailed information about the color, texture, appearance, and relationship to dew, and the Old Testament even explains how manna is to be ground and then used in baking cakes. If the Israelites thought that manna was a magical event caused by God would they have bothered to note all the details about the identification of manna? What about the manna that Moses said must be put away for future generations? Turning to Hebrews 9:3-4 we find:

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all: Which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna.
Here we learn that manna was to be kept in the Holiest of all, the Ark of the Covenant. Clearly, the manna was something of great spiritual power since the Hebrews treated it with such reverence and even went to such great lengths to see that manna be given to future generations. We must also consider the covenant that the Jewish people held with God which was celebrated through the act of circumcision. Why was this covenant with God associated with the removal of foreskin from infant males. Why not a tattoo, scar, article of clothing or jewelry? Perhaps the answer is that the circumcised penis bears a remarkable resemblance to psilocybe mushroom just before the partial veil has broken away from the mushroom caps and they are at their greatest potency. If the Ark of the Covenant was specifically built to store manna it is logical was also tied to manna through the ritual act of circumcision, which gave each Jewish male his own mushroom-like penis.

The discovery that manna was (and is) psilocybe mushrooms is not simply an issue of theological or academic debate. So great was the power conferred by manna, that this small band of wandering slaves were able to defeat all enemies who crossed their path even when confronted by armies that were bigger and better equipped. Jews, Christians and Moslems can all trace their roots to the children of Israel who ate manna for forty years and saw themselves as God's chosen people. Again, we are reminded of McKenna's thesis that those who ate psilocybe mushrooms had a survival advantage due to better visual acuity, heightened senses, better hunting skills, and for the children of Israel, better warrior skills. Manna gave the Hebrews their own covenant with God one that is even recognized today by Christians who believe that the Jews have already earned a special place as the Chosen People. Bible scholar Grant Jeffrey explains:

"The covenant which God made with Abraham and the kingdom promises to David, Solomon and all the prophets will be finally realized in the Millennial Kingdom... the Lord promised a new covenant with Ismel in which He would give them a new heart, forgiveness of sin, and the infilling of the Spirit to the renewed nation. This promised kingdom will provide the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of the Chosen People forever."3

What is the new covenant? It is the rediscovery of manna. Across the gulf of thousands of years the Bible transmits and accurate and detailed description of manna waiting for the time when the message can be decoded and manna can again fulfill its role as a celestial messenger. Manna was the basis of the Jewish covenant with God. Indeed, it is this covenant and the use of manna which has set the Jews apart as the Chosen People. The Bible is not the message, it only points the way. Manna is the holy sacrament that provides the means for God to "prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."

If manna is indeed the psilocybin mushroom, then this means that the Koran, Bible, and Torah were all inspired by psychedelically induced visions. The very foundations upon which these religions rest were derived from the mushroom experience. Moses and the children of Israel used the mushrooms as true sacraments to communicate with a Higher Power, also known as Allah, God and Yahweh. The discovery that manna is real and is available to us today means that like children of Israel we too can use manna to experience the joy, wisdom and spiritual renewal of the Chosen People.

Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins) p. 84.
Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins), p. 127.
Grant R. Jeffrey, Heaven the last Frontier, (New York; Bantam), p. 132.--------------------------------------------------

Now, i'm not saying this guy is 100% right, but I definitely feel he is probably correct. I mean come on dude, "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."  <------whoever observed all of that was clearly tripping balls.

Just sayin...

WTF Man
Iím not going to read that wall of text
What are you On & On About In Brief.