Author Topic: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?  (Read 9725 times)

IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2020, 04:20:54 PM »
R/E taxes are often higher in small towns in NY, NJ, etc.

Because of the low tax base they can't spread the costs out as much and they still have their own school districts, police departments, and fire plus the administrators to pay for.

The public schools are good in these states while the schools down south are generally awful.  

The majority of your R/E taxes in NY and NJ goes for the school districts.  Each community has it's own school district.

The employment opportunities down south are also usually lousy.  You work at a low wage.

You have to make your money somewhere else and then move there.  So while taxes are low, opportunity is also low.

Primemuscle

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2020, 04:22:15 PM »
$8104 on a $327.9 K house is a bargain. My $225,000 "starter home" in upstate NY had a $9K tax bill when I sold it.

What county and city in Upstate NY was this in? Much of what makes up the property tax bill is at the county level and then the city adds in their cut too.

For example, $2,600 of my property tax goes to education, $2,700 to general government all of which is county tax and $1,500 goes to local operating and construction bonds which we voted on. Of course, different states get their tax revenue from different sources. Oregon gets theirs from income taxes and not property tax, (Personal income tax and corporate excise tax are the most significant components of the state General Fund, and property tax is the most significant local tax in Oregon).

IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2020, 04:24:01 PM »
What county and city in Upstate NY was this in? Much of what makes up the property tax bill is at the county level and then the city adds in their cut too.

For example, $2,600 of my property tax goes to education, $2,700 to general government all of which is county tax and $1,500 goes to local operating and construction bonds which we voted on. Of course, different states get their tax revenue from different sources. Oregon gets theirs from income taxes and not property tax, (Personal income tax and corporate excise tax are the most significant components of the state General Fund, and property tax is the most significant local tax in Oregon).


The school taxes make up the majority of the tax bill in NY.  2/3 would be school taxes at least.

Hypertrophy

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2020, 04:46:26 PM »

The employment opportunities down south are also usually lousy.  You work at a low wage.

You have to make your money somewhere else and then move there.  So while taxes are low, opportunity is also low.

Here in Greenville, SC I even have trouble finding employees starting at $20/hr for production work. For skilled engineers we start at $60K Employment opportunities are off the chart. I have to compete with the aerospace, automotive and software industries. I’ve run a tech business since 1990, starting in NYS. Upstate NY is in economic depression. Greenville, SC is blowing up.

Hypertrophy

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2020, 04:48:38 PM »
What county and city in Upstate NY was this in? Much of what makes up the property tax bill is at the county level and then the city adds in their cut too.

For example, $2,600 of my property tax goes to education, $2,700 to general government all of which is county tax and $1,500 goes to local operating and construction bonds which we voted on. Of course, different states get their tax revenue from different sources. Oregon gets theirs from income taxes and not property tax, (Personal income tax and corporate excise tax are the most significant components of the state General Fund, and property tax is the most significant local tax in Oregon).


Onondaga county- where Syracuse is located. School taxes rape you. About 75% of the property tax. And the education sucks. I was on a school board- which turns out to be just a patsy for the union.

IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #80 on: April 21, 2020, 05:19:30 PM »
10 Poorest states in America

https://www.roadsnacks.net/poorest-states-in-america/

After analyzing all 50 U.S. states, here are the 10 poorest states in America for 2020:

    #1 - Mississippi (Photos)
    New Mexico (Photos)
    Louisiana (Photos)
    West Virginia (Photos)
    #5 - Alabama (Photos)
    Kentucky (Photos)
    South Carolina (Photos)
    Arkansas (Photos)
    Tennessee (Photos)
    #10 - North Carolina (Photos)


JustPlaneJane

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #81 on: April 21, 2020, 05:57:41 PM »
What county and city in Upstate NY was this in? Much of what makes up the property tax bill is at the county level and then the city adds in their cut too.

For example, $2,600 of my property tax goes to education, $2,700 to general government all of which is county tax and $1,500 goes to local operating and construction bonds which we voted on. Of course, different states get their tax revenue from different sources. Oregon gets theirs from income taxes and not property tax, (Personal income tax and corporate excise tax are the most significant components of the state General Fund, and property tax is the most significant local tax in Oregon).


Posted just like the type of soggy old queer who implies he worked for the local School District as an educator, when in fact he probably collectively bargained against the School District as a member of the custodial (janitor) union, while referring to himself as building maintenance or facilities engineer or something like that.

The soggy old deviant queer strikes me as that kind of person.

Hypertrophy

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #82 on: April 21, 2020, 07:27:14 PM »
10 Poorest states in America

https://www.roadsnacks.net/poorest-states-in-america/

After analyzing all 50 U.S. states, here are the 10 poorest states in America for 2020:

    #1 - Mississippi (Photos)
    New Mexico (Photos)
    Louisiana (Photos)
    West Virginia (Photos)
    #5 - Alabama (Photos)
    Kentucky (Photos)
    South Carolina (Photos)
    Arkansas (Photos)
    Tennessee (Photos)
    #10 - North Carolina (Photos)



lol- yeah, so poor in North and South Carolina. I spent most of my life in New York. As a tech sales guy I drove the state from Buffalo to Albany and NYC to Plattsburgh. Spend some time in any county north of US 90 and you'd swear you are in Appalachia, lol. BTW I was in Fishkill 4 months ago which is north of NYC and it looked like a ghost town- yet that used to be where IBM semiconductor was booming for years.

I now know SC and NC like the back of my hand. You have zero idea how explosive the growth is. But then again the Northeast is absolutely clueless about anything south of NYC haha.

JustPlaneJane

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #83 on: April 21, 2020, 08:07:23 PM »
lol- yeah, so poor in North and South Carolina. I spent most of my life in New York. As a tech sales guy I drove the state from Buffalo to Albany and NYC to Plattsburgh. Spend some time in any county north of US 90 and you'd swear you are in Appalachia, lol. BTW I was in Fishkill 4 months ago which is north of NYC and it looked like a ghost town- yet that used to be where IBM semiconductor was booming for years.

I now know SC and NC like the back of my hand. You have zero idea how explosive the growth is. But then again the Northeast is absolutely clueless about anything south of NYC haha.

I wouldn’t have guessed North Carolina would be in the top ten.

IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2020, 04:29:48 AM »
lol- yeah, so poor in North and South Carolina. I spent most of my life in New York. As a tech sales guy I drove the state from Buffalo to Albany and NYC to Plattsburgh. Spend some time in any county north of US 90 and you'd swear you are in Appalachia, lol. BTW I was in Fishkill 4 months ago which is north of NYC and it looked like a ghost town- yet that used to be where IBM semiconductor was booming for years.

I now know SC and NC like the back of my hand. You have zero idea how explosive the growth is. But then again the Northeast is absolutely clueless about anything south of NYC haha.

Check out the link. #50 is the richest and #1 is the poorest.

NY is hurting.  Used to be a powerhouse but now, except for NYC, the state has been put in the toilet by liberal pols.

And check out California.  Not too good as a whole except for the rich enclaves.  Newsom will drive it further into the poorhouse.




IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2020, 04:37:15 AM »
You’re skewing the numbers to try to make a weak point.

Your interest on the paid off mortgage is $0. Even if it were the full boat $1,250/month ($15,000 a year) you would get 36-38% of that back in tax refund, or lowering of your AGI.

So the numbers indicate about a $200,000 home purchased 22 years ago that is worth about $340,000 now, or so.

In 22 years of owning the home you’ve saved $100,000 in federal tax using your numbers.
You have $340,000 in equity
You have saved paying about $564,000 in rent.
You paid about $350,000 on the mortgage over 22 years.

So your house returned about 8% per year as an investment.

A rental would have cost you the $564,000 in rent + the $340,000 in lost equity.

Good points, JJ.


Humble Narcissist

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2020, 09:06:43 AM »
Check out the link. #50 is the richest and #1 is the poorest.

NY is hurting.  Used to be a powerhouse but now, except for NYC, the state has been put in the toilet by liberal pols.

And check out California.  Not too good as a whole except for the rich enclaves.  Newsom will drive it further into the poorhouse.




Very deceptive map that doesn't account for cost of living or one industry that carries the whole state like oil in North Dakota or banking in the Northeast.  There are tons of poor people in those states.

IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #87 on: April 22, 2020, 09:27:32 AM »
The cost of living is high in NJ but incomes are also high.

That's why people live there...to make a good income.  The schools are excellent to for their kids.  Then they retire to Florida where there's no state income tax.

But Florida is not a good place to make money.  It's mostly low wage service jobs and the schools suck.

The poor states are good if you retire and bring your money with you.  Raise your kids there?  Not so good.

There are wealthy areas in the poor states and you can send your kids to private schools.

JustPlaneJane

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2020, 10:42:24 AM »
Good points, JJ.


Obviously it is an oversimplification, but you got the general idea. The comparison between buying a home or rental property versus investing in the stock market can’t be done in a vacuum.

From 2008-2016 the U.S. had the Obama economy. The absolute worst economic policy disaster in history, basically a pandemic economy without the pandemic (if you don’t count his complete incompetence).

So at that time....the stock market was crap, a savings account returned zero percent interest, but a foreclosure or short sale home could be purchased for $50-$75 a square foot. So decent investment opportunities were available in real estate.

Now during the Trump economy (prior to Covid-19) both the stock market and housing market were increasing in value, so the comparison becomes a little more difficult. Granted if you look long term, neither market will continue as strong as it was under Trump. I’d imagine if you had a home that returned 8-10% over a 20 year period, you would be hard pressed to outperform that in the stock market.

YMMV....


Humble Narcissist

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2020, 10:50:20 AM »
The cost of living is high in NJ but incomes are also high.

That's why people live there...to make a good income.  The schools are excellent to for their kids.  Then they retire to Florida where there's no state income tax.

But Florida is not a good place to make money.  It's mostly low wage service jobs and the schools suck.

The poor states are good if you retire and bring your money with you.  Raise your kids there?  Not so good.

There are wealthy areas in the poor states and you can send your kids to private schools.
The problem is the wealthy leave the high taxed states for low taxes but then vote for liberal politicians who they ran from to start with.

IroNat

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2020, 10:56:52 AM »
The problem is the wealthy leave the high taxed states for low taxes but then vote for liberal politicians who they ran from to start with.

Yes, they leave to escape the high taxes and demand all those services again where they move to.


Primemuscle

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2020, 12:42:28 PM »
The school taxes make up the majority of the tax bill in NY.  2/3 would be school taxes at least.

I am not surprised. The federal department of education, sets a lot of the rules schools are required to follow and yet the feds fail to fund education which leaves it up to states, counties and cities to pick up the tab....with our state income, sales and property tax dollars, etc. Everyone is passing the buck, or in this case the invoice.

Primemuscle

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2020, 01:17:09 PM »
Posted just like the type of soggy old queer who implies he worked for the local School District as an educator, when in fact he probably collectively bargained against the School District as a member of the custodial (janitor) union, while referring to himself as building maintenance or facilities engineer or something like that.

The soggy old deviant queer strikes me as that kind of person.

Or something like that. Is this you outing me? Awhile back, you did post that I was next. You are not totally accurate here, but close enough. Unlike some folks, I don't have any secrets you can expose. However, should I be warning my business associates, family and friends that a nut job might try to harass them via phone calls on on social media?   

Hypertrophy

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2020, 12:26:58 PM »
I am not surprised. The federal department of education, sets a lot of the rules schools are required to follow and yet the feds fail to fund education which leaves it up to states, counties and cities to pick up the tab....with our state income, sales and property tax dollars, etc. Everyone is passing the buck, or in this case the invoice.

No, that has nothing to do with why NY school taxes are so high. In the mid 70's the teachers were allowed to unionize. This led to a political voting block funded by union dues that bought off a majority of politicians. School spending skyrocketed, without a concomitant rise in any metric of education achievement. Ultimately the school boards became populated with ex teachers and teacher family members. So budget and payroll increases are rubber stamped year to year.

I requested and got all records of the local school district budgets and contracts when I ran for school board. I was blown away. Average teacher with 10 years experience was making over $100K in the local elementary school. Combined with the matching pension contributions and benefits they made the equivalent of $150-160 K for working a partial year.

They have essentially bankrupted local communities. When I left NY my local school district had a $16 million yearly budget, with 1100 students. I just looked them up a few weeks ago and they were at $23 million with under 900 students. End of story.

Primemuscle

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2020, 01:41:21 PM »
No, that has nothing to do with why NY school taxes are so high. In the mid 70's the teachers were allowed to unionize. This led to a political voting block funded by union dues that bought off a majority of politicians. School spending skyrocketed, without a concomitant rise in any metric of education achievement. Ultimately the school boards became populated with ex teachers and teacher family members. So budget and payroll increases are rubber stamped year to year.

I requested and got all records of the local school district budgets and contracts when I ran for school board. I was blown away. Average teacher with 10 years experience was making over $100K in the local elementary school. Combined with the matching pension contributions and benefits they made the equivalent of $150-160 K for working a partial year.

They have essentially bankrupted local communities. When I left NY my local school district had a $16 million yearly budget, with 1100 students. I just looked them up a few weeks ago and they were at $23 million with under 900 students. End of story.

Did you win a position on that district's school Board? Have you run for the school board where you moved. What state did you choose to move to and did the cost of education and property taxes factor in?

It might interest you to know that public School Districts with the least number of students spend more per student. Likewise, the smaller the school, the more percentage wise or per student it costs to operate. This is why school districts are building fewer, but larger schools. Maine, for example has loads of tiny school districts. School funding at the local level can be prohibitive, leaving some of these districts underwater.

One way to lower student and operating costs is for smaller school districts to merge with larger ones. Many times people resist the districts doing this because they simply don't want to become a part of a larger district.  

In 2019, New York had the highest average teacher salary @ $85,300. In 2020 Oregon's median teacher salary is $57,671. In NY the 2020 median teacher salary is $62,130. It's important to factor in differences in cost of living. NY's is clearly higher than Oregon's

In 2016, New York spent $22,366 per student, $15,746 went for education and $6,130 went for support services. In contrast, Oregon spent $10,842 per student, $6,327 for education and $4,123 to support services. The biggest expense for all school districts is on salaries and benefits.

When you say matching pension, do you mean the district matches the amount a teacher contributes to their retirement? The way you worded it, it could be interpreted to mean the district contributed an amount that matches the teachers' wages. Many private corporations match whatever an employee contributes to their pension, usually within a limit.

Oregon school districts float bonds for construction and operating costs. These bond levies are voted on by the residents of the district. To pass, a super majority is needed. this means more then 50% of all registered voters must vote. A majority of those 50 +% is required. In other words, it isn't easy to get levies passed. Not surprisingly, neighborhoods with the highest median income are most likely to pass school bonds.



MAXX

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2020, 01:57:20 PM »
In most locations the land the house is on is worth more that the house. One thing is true is that barring a world wide pandemic a house will appreciate tremendously in 30 years. That 200K house bought 30 years ago has a chance to double in price or more. 
100% this.

What you pay for today is to have nice neighbours. The house itself is often just 1/4 of that.

sculpture

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2020, 02:05:30 PM »
Here in north east England Houses are still cheap, I got mine even cheaper as it needed a lot of work (60k less than others in sane street at time)so don’t fall into the normal lifetime commitment to pay off house which would fucking hate. All want out of life is finish paying it off and work as little as needed through 40s and 50s would fucking hate to have massive mortgage might as well be a slave for next 25 years  

Seaton sluice is cheap. Bought  an ex council house. Well built. solid.

Hypertrophy

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2020, 02:31:57 PM »
Did you win a position on that district's school Board? Have you run for the school board where you moved. What state did you choose to move to and did the cost of education and property taxes factor in?

It might interest you to know that public School Districts with the least number of students spend more per student. Likewise, the smaller the school, the more percentage wise or per student it costs to operate. This is why school districts are building fewer, but larger schools. Maine, for example has loads of tiny school districts. School funding at the local level can be prohibitive, leaving some of these districts underwater.

One way to lower student and operating costs is for smaller school districts to merge with larger ones. Many times people resist the districts doing this because they simply don't want to become a part of a larger district.  

In 2019, New York had the highest average teacher salary @ $85,300. In 2020 Oregon's median teacher salary is $57,671. In NY the 2020 median teacher salary is $62,130. It's important to factor in differences in cost of living. NY's is clearly higher than Oregon's

In 2016, New York spent $22,366 per student, $15,746 went for education and $6,130 went for support services. In contrast, Oregon spent $10,842 per student, $6,327 for education and $4,123 to support services. The biggest expense for all school districts is on salaries and benefits.

When you say matching pension, do you mean the district matches the amount a teacher contributes to their retirement? The way you worded it, it could be interpreted to mean the district contributed an amount that matches the teachers' wages. Many private corporations match whatever an employee contributes to their pension, usually within a limit.

Oregon school districts float bonds for construction and operating costs. These bond levies are voted on by the residents of the district. To pass, a super majority is needed. this means more then 50% of all registered voters must vote. A majority of those 50 +% is required. In other words, it isn't easy to get levies passed. Not surprisingly, neighborhoods with the highest median income are most likely to pass school bonds.




1) I won a position - stayed a year then moved. Being on a school board is a complete waste of time. I have extensive knowledge of financial management. These people think it grows on trees.
2) Moved to South Carolina. Taxes and climate were the only motivating factors. My property taxes dropped by 75%. Had two kids in school - both ended up going to charter schools that are very common in South Carolina. Both ended up getting college degrees here.
3) Upstate NY has a cost of living like any rural area- it is cheap. Except for property taxes which are obscene.
4) School districts in NY act as independent empires. Each has a superintendent who gets as little as $150K a year to upwards of $300K. Insane.
5) Pension contributions in my district were 100% school paid for. No teacher participation at all. Try finding that in the private sector!
6) It's a piece of cake to get a capital bond passed in NY. Simple majority of those who actually vote.
7) NY school systems do not care about cost cutting, saving overhead, or containing salaries. They grow till they go bankrupt. Hopefully that happens this year since the state of NY will be running a $15 billion deficit. It already was $6+ billion before Covid.

Primemuscle

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2020, 03:59:02 PM »
Seaton sluice is cheap. Bought  an ex council house. Well built. solid.

I could go for a council house as long at it got plenty of daylight, which I think can be a problem unless you have an end unit. Probably my only other issues would be the low ceilings and cutup living area. I could get used to it though. In my current home, I heat a bunch of visual space because of the vaulted ceilings. Mine is a family home with too much space should it ever be just me living here. A smaller house would probably be the way to go if I lived alone. Of course there's a charm about council houses that most houses in the states don't have and  moving abroad would be a big change.

Henda

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Re: do you think the work you do over 20-30 yrs to pay off a home is fair?
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2020, 11:27:30 PM »
Seaton sluice is cheap. Bought  an ex council house. Well built. solid.

Nice place as well suprised at it being cheap with having be by the beach, was expecting near Whitley bay prices.

I’m just a few miles away in bedlington