Kinda keto burnout

[loco]

Eric Charles Westman, MD

Associate Professor of Medicine

Dr. Westman is an Associate Professor of Medicine at Duke University. He is Board Certified in Obesity Medicine and Internal Medicine, and founded the Duke Keto Medicine Clinic with Dr. William S. Yancy Jr. in 2006 after 8 years of clinical research regarding low carbohydrate ketogenic diets.

https://medicine.duke.edu/faculty/eric-charles-westman-md

[Van_Bilderass]

I did the 5/2 Anabolic Diet back in 1998.
It worked amazingly well. Started out fat, gained about 20lbs on the scale while getting very lean - in about 3 months. It was tough but the weekends were enjoyable.

Anyone remember what the Body Opus diet entailed?

[TheGrinch]

Anyone remember what the Body Opus diet entailed?

tons of roid's + ultimate orange?...lol

[Hypertrophy]

But you can 100% eat MORE clean food macros vs calories from twinkies and still lose weight


Eventually on a low cal diet metabolism crashes, hit a plateau and nothing you can do to get lean from that point vs eating clean, cycling calories

I'm not sure where this phrase "clean food" comes from. If you mean not heavily processed and free from artificial ingredients then I suppose that is "clean". But lots of unprocessed natural foods have deadly ingredients as well.  Green leafy vegetables can load your system up with oxalic acid- and that is not a good thing.  Lots of lean red meat will overload your kidneys with decomposition waste products and your urine will become saturated with uric acid - and that is a very bad thing.

And I'm also not sure what you mean by eating "100%" more? You mean by volume? Sure- a ton of non starchy vegetables will fill you up with a much lower calorie load than a ton of high sugar, high fat food. But if you calculate calories, that's the only important thing.

Personally I can't stand eating lots of vegetables- it makes me sick. To lose weight I just calorie count.

Everything in moderation and you'll achieve a body weight that is surprisingly stable. We aren't talking paper thin skin - just no huge gut.

[Hypertrophy]

tons of roid's + ultimate orange?...lol

The original ultimate orange felt like I was on adrenaline 24/7. The ephedrine in that concoction was the shit, lol

[Body-Buildah]

The original ultimate orange felt like I was on adrenaline 24/7. The ephedrine in that concoction was the shit, lol

The Original Pre-Workout. I would drink down an U.O., and pop a ephedrine tab 30 mins before workout. Crazy energy/strength from it. (Contraction I guess).
(1990ish or so I'm guessing)

Buy a bottle of 25 mg ephedrine tabs (white cross) for 5 bucks at Cumberland Farms counter. Good ole days.
Meth-heads like Johnny ruined it for everyone else.

[Humble Narcissist]

The original ultimate orange felt like I was on adrenaline 24/7. The ephedrine in that concoction was the shit, lol

The best pre workout supplement ever!

[TheGrinch]

The original ultimate orange felt like I was on adrenaline 24/7. The ephedrine in that concoction was the shit, lol

LOL no doubt... God only knows what else was actually in there...


What I felt like taking that stuff..

[TheGrinch]

I'm not sure where this phrase "clean food" comes from. If you mean not heavily processed and free from artificial ingredients then I suppose that is "clean". But lots of unprocessed natural foods have deadly ingredients as well.  Green leafy vegetables can load your system up with oxalic acid- and that is not a good thing.  Lots of lean red meat will overload your kidneys with decomposition waste products and your urine will become saturated with uric acid - and that is a very bad thing.

And I'm also not sure what you mean by eating "100%" more? You mean by volume? Sure- a ton of non starchy vegetables will fill you up with a much lower calorie load than a ton of high sugar, high fat food. But if you calculate calories, that's the only important thing.

Personally I can't stand eating lots of vegetables- it makes me sick. To lose weight I just calorie count.

Everything in moderation and you'll achieve a body weight that is surprisingly stable. We aren't talking paper thin skin - just no huge gut.

I absolutely get what you're saying and would agree this would apply to someone at 35% body fat looking to lose weight.

But to get lean..... super lean

heck even anywhere near 10% you are not doing IIFYM and counting calories.

There's a reason IFBB pro BB's aren't just "eating under maintenance" IIFYM style for 12-16 weeks and instead nauseously suck down boiled chicken and broccoli 6-8x a day endlessly

[King Shizzo]

I absolutely get what you're saying and would agree this would apply to someone at 35% body fat looking to lose weight.

But to get lean..... super lean

heck even anywhere near 10% you are not doing IIFYM and counting calories.

There's a reason IFBB pro BB's aren't just "eating under maintenance" IIFYM style for 12-16 weeks and instead nauseously suck down boiled chicken and broccoli 6-8x a day endlessly

It's called steroids. The finishing touch... It's about being consistent. Take copious amount of steroids and burn more calories than you take in.

[Marty Champions]

Carb up days sound nice but i dont think they help.

[Mr Anabolic]

I did the 5/2 Anabolic Diet back in 1998.
It worked amazingly well. Started out fat, gained about 20lbs on the scale while getting very lean - in about 3 months. It was tough but the weekends were enjoyable.

Maybe for sedentary fat fucks it works well, but not if you're working out hard 5 days/wk and trying to gain muscle.

I was on this diet twice for 6 months each time... followed it to a T.  The reason I tried it 2nd time it because I thought I was doing something wrong the 1st time.

Leg day was very difficult.  Not enough energy to complete the workout.  Felt like I was going to die towards the end of the workout and afterwards.  Ppl in the gym told me I looked sick.

The brain, liver and muscles preferred source of fuel is glucose... period.

[Marty Champions]

Maybe for sedentary fat fucks it works well, but not if you're working out hard 5 days/wk and trying to gain muscle.

I was on this diet twice for 6 months each time... followed it to a T.  The reason I tried it 2nd time it because I thought I was doing something wrong the 1st time.

Leg day was very difficult.  Not enough energy to complete the workout.  Felt like I was going to die towards the end of the workout and afterwards.  Ppl in the gym told me I looked sick.

The brain, liver and muscles preferred source of fuel is glucose... period.

see that sounds nice but if ur 16 percent fat its hard to drop fat with 200 carbs a day and 80g fat

[Hypertrophy]

I absolutely get what you're saying and would agree this would apply to someone at 35% body fat looking to lose weight.

But to get lean..... super lean

heck even anywhere near 10% you are not doing IIFYM and counting calories.

There's a reason IFBB pro BB's aren't just "eating under maintenance" IIFYM style for 12-16 weeks and instead nauseously suck down boiled chicken and broccoli 6-8x a day endlessly

Nothing about normal diets applies when you are on steroids and/or HGH.

" The injectable 17 beta-esters, such as nandrolone phenylpropionate, nandrolone decanoate and methenolone oenanthate exert a strong anabolic action for several weeks, amounting to 2-2.50 g nitrogen/day, which corresponds to a daily gain of 12-15 g protein or 60-75 g lean body mass."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8256449/

[Van_Bilderass]

Maybe for sedentary fat fucks it works well, but not if you're working out hard 5 days/wk and trying to gain muscle.

I was on this diet twice for 6 months each time... followed it to a T.  The reason I tried it 2nd time it because I thought I was doing something wrong the 1st time.

Leg day was very difficult.  Not enough energy to complete the workout.  Felt like I was going to die towards the end of the workout and afterwards.  Ppl in the gym told me I looked sick.

The brain, liver and muscles preferred source of fuel is glucose... period.

My story was that I had been off cycle for a few months, only done Dianabol at that point. I was about 200lbs, maybe 15% bodyfat. I decided to do a bb show, got on Dianabol again and started the Anabolic Diet. Monday through friday I ate fat and protein without counting anything, an hour of cardio a day. Weekends I loaded up on carbs, would gain about 20lbs from saturday morning to sunday night. Two weeks out from the show I was 220lbs and lean. Last week I dehydrated a lot, weighed in at 202lbs, so a couple of pounds heavier than the starting point.

It worked very well. Strength was good but I was very hungry during the week and had some severe hypoglycemic episodes a few times. Had I been on a "real" cycle I think would've had even better results. By real cycle I mean plenty of test and tren and not just orals. GH during the week and some Lantus and Humalog on the carb-ups.

[Mr Anabolic]

My story was that I had been off cycle for a few months, only done Dianabol at that point. I was about 200lbs, maybe 15% bodyfat. I decided to do a bb show, got on Dianabol again and started the Anabolic Diet. Monday through friday I ate fat and protein without counting anything, an hour of cardio a day. Weekends I loaded up on carbs, would gain about 20lbs from saturday morning to sunday night. Two weeks out from the show I was 220lbs and lean. Last week I dehydrated a lot, weighed in at 202lbs, so a couple of pounds heavier than the starting point.

It worked very well. Strength was good but I was very hungry during the week and had some severe hypoglycemic episodes a few times. Had I been on a "real" cycle I think would've had even better results. By real cycle I mean plenty of test and tren and not just orals. GH during the week and some Lantus and Humalog on the carb-ups.

Is going up and down 20lbs like a yo-yo good for you?

When you're on d-bol and all that other stuff I'm sure the diet works pretty well.  It's the way they dieted in the 70's and 80's, but without the drugs they would've looked like shit.   

For a natty?... it sucks.  Sure you can get leaner, but you'll be flat as hell during the week with little energy train hard.  On carb up days you feel like sleeping all day. 

This is a yo-yo diet that plays havoc with your insulin levels and your mood.  No thanks.

[Van_Bilderass]

Is going up and down 20lbs like a yo-yo good for you?

When you're on d-bol and all that other stuff I'm sure the diet works pretty well.  It's the way they dieted in the 70's and 80's, but without the drugs they would've looked like shit.   

For a natty?... it sucks.  Sure you can get leaner, but you'll be flat as hell during the week with little energy train hard.  On carb up days you feel like sleeping all day. 

This is a yo-yo diet that plays havoc with your insulin levels and your mood.  No thanks.

Probably not the healthiest but there might be an anabolic effect to the "cell swelling" from the glycogen supercompensation. That was the whole premise behind the Anabolic Diet. GH boost from the low carbs which is muscle sparing and lipolytic. Anabolism from the insulin/glycogen rebound. Remember, this diet was supposed to help the WBF pros to preserve size as they were forced to stop the anabolics due to testing. The ones who got fat, like Mike Quinn, DiPasquale said were not following the diet as laid out.

Mauro DiPasquale actually advocated switching to a continuous fat/protein diet after doing the 5/2 diet for shows, except around each workout when you were supposed to pound the carbs. Kind of like a Milos Sarcev regimen.

[TheGrinch]

Is going up and down 20lbs like a yo-yo good for you?

When you're on d-bol and all that other stuff I'm sure the diet works pretty well.  It's the way they dieted in the 70's and 80's, but without the drugs they would've looked like shit.   

For a natty?... it sucks.  Sure you can get leaner, but you'll be flat as hell during the week with little energy train hard.  On carb up days you feel like sleeping all day. 

This is a yo-yo diet that plays havoc with your insulin levels and your mood.  No thanks.

So then what would you suggest as the right way for a natural or at least someone on HRT trying to diet down?

[Mr Anabolic]

So then what would you suggest as the right way for a natural or at least someone on HRT trying to diet down?

To have fuller muscles, be lean and still be able to train hard?... 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats.  It's not rocket science.

Trying to gain size?... keep same ratio, but increase total daily calorie intake to 300-500 above maintenance.  What is maintenance?... you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

Been training for 35+ years and tried many different diets during that time, but I always go back to this ratio because it works the best.

For non-competitive lifters (which 99% of us are on here), cardio is really not necessary as long as you stay disciplined about what goes into your mouth.

People need to stop watching YT diet/training guru vids and stop listening to some skinny-fat MD/PhD tell you what to do.  Lots of ppl today seems to need their hand held... sad.

[Mr Anabolic]

Probably not the healthiest but there might be an anabolic effect to the "cell swelling" from the glycogen supercompensation. That was the whole premise behind the Anabolic Diet. GH boost from the low carbs which is muscle sparing and lipolytic. Anabolism from the insulin/glycogen rebound. Remember, this diet was supposed to help the WBF pros to preserve size as they were forced to stop the anabolics due to testing. The ones who got fat, like Mike Quinn, DiPasquale said were not following the diet as laid out.

Those WBF guys came off drugs and their endocrine systems crashed.  NO diet in the world could've helped them at that point.

I followed the diet exactly for 6 months.  I was natty then.  It did not deliver the results the good Dr. promised.  What often looks great on paper or in theory does not always work in the real world.

[TheGrinch]

To have fuller muscles, be lean and still be able to train hard?... 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fats.  It's not rocket science.

Trying to gain size?... keep same ratio, but increase total daily calorie intake to 300-500 above maintenance.  What is maintenance?... you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

Been training for 35+ years and tried many different diets during that time, but I always go back to this ratio because it works the best.

For non-competitive lifters (which 99% of us are on here), cardio is really not necessary as long as you stay disciplined about what goes into your mouth.

People need to stop watching YT diet/training guru vids and stop listening to some skinny-fat MD/PhD tell you what to do.  Lots of ppl today seems to need their hand held... sad.

Agreed but then the "watch what goes in your mouth" isnt IIFYM (a calorie is a calorie) that this thread states but strict 40/40/20 clean eating no?

[Mr Anabolic]

Agreed but then the "watch what goes in your mouth" isnt IIFYM (a calorie is a calorie) that this thread states but strict 40/40/20 clean eating no?

Semantics.  However you want to interpret it.  I do whatever works for me based on my past experience.

[Humble Narcissist]

Is going up and down 20lbs like a yo-yo good for you?

When you're on d-bol and all that other stuff I'm sure the diet works pretty well.  It's the way they dieted in the 70's and 80's, but without the drugs they would've looked like shit.   

For a natty?... it sucks.  Sure you can get leaner, but you'll be flat as hell during the week with little energy train hard.  On carb up days you feel like sleeping all day. 

This is a yo-yo diet that plays havoc with your insulin levels and your mood.  No thanks.

The 5/2 was horrible for me so I switched to 3/1.  Night and day.

[Mr Anabolic]

The 5/2 was horrible for me so I switched to 3/1.  Night and day.

Yes, def feels better, but Dr Mauro said you would never go into in ketosis on that schedule.

After a couple months I varied it a bit and tried a 6/1.  I stayed in ketosis (urine strips), but I felt totally blitzed all week.

[pamith]

The Original Pre-Workout. I would drink down an U.O., and pop a ephedrine tab 30 mins before workout. Crazy energy/strength from it. (Contraction I guess).
(1990ish or so I'm guessing)

Buy a bottle of 25 mg ephedrine tabs (white cross) for 5 bucks at Cumberland Farms counter. Good ole days.
Meth-heads like Johnny ruined it for everyone else.

But...is this healthy?