2006 Toronto Pro canceled! Official!

[timfogarty]

winfitpromotions.com is still promoting the Canadian Fitness Exhibition, with the pro bodybuilding contest as part of the weekend list of events.   Guess the entire event is being canceled. 

It was being held in Niagra Falls, an hour and a half away from Toronto.   Don't you think one of the largest cities in North America would be a better draw than a resort town?

[bigdumbbell]

winfitpromotions.com is still promoting the Canadian Fitness Exhibition, with the pro bodybuilding contest as part of the weekend list of events.   Guess the entire event is being canceled. 

It was being held in Niagra Falls, an hour and a half away from Toronto.   Don't you think one of the largest cities in North America would be a better draw than a resort town?

that would make much too much sense. that's like saying it's the newyork pro but holding it in poughkeepsie

[timfogarty]

that would make much too much sense. that's like saying it's the newyork pro but holding it in poughkeepsie

Or the San Francisco Pro in Hayward. 

[chron]

This is the second time in four years this show has been cancelled by the same promoter.

I have word that supplement company's (ie: Muscletech) did not want to put much money to promote the show because of the way it was run last year. They did not see the benefit into putting money into a show that was not properly promoted compared to many other pro shows, that they invest in.

Also, Shawn Ray wasn't payed for his "master of ceremonies" work in the same show last year. He slammed the promoter in the magazines for that.

If you couldn't pay Shawn last year and didn't make money on the show, why would you ask to do it again?!!

Who wants to make the same mistake twice?

I don't understand how a promoter can cancel the show just weeks before it is suppose to be on?! As an amateur competitor I understand how much money is involved preparing for a show! I can only imagine how much money would be involved as a professional!

For one of the 10 largest cities in North America not to be able to host a show is ludicrous!! I commend guys like Shawn Ray and Steve Weinenberger for doing the proper promotion and work to have a show that other athletes getting ready for the Toronto show can prepare for. Some guys may not hit there "peak" if they plan on entering but at least they can showcase there hard work and efforts, and get there faces known in the bodybuilding scene.

The Toronto show use to be a sold out event and hopefully the next promoter that plans on taking on this event will be able to learn from Winstons mistakes and make this show as good as it was in the 90's.

Just like the Maple Leaf fans say....well, at least we have Montreal to look forward to!

[Disgusted]

There has been discussion about insuring the show for the athletes. There are many details that would need to be addressed. This very subject was brought up 3-4 years ago by Shawn and myself, as we thought it needed to be looked at, sadly, we were the ONLY two BBers that thought it was an issue.

Bottom line is, until the athletes start to take an interest in THEIR sport and the business end of it...it's going to be a slow process.

Stop blaming the athletes. The IFBB is to blame, period. The promotor should be banned from ever putting on a show again.

[240 is Back]

This is the second time in four years this show has been cancelled by the same promoter.

Bob, were you aware of this fact when you went on about him being such a "great guy" tonight?

He might be a great guy, but if 50% of the events he has promoted in the last 2 years have been cancelled, do you think there may be a problem there?

[bigdumbbell]

but he's a volunteer and does it for the love 

[HRDCOR]

What prerequisite do you need to be a promoter other than fronting up some cash !!! can any one buy them self's a IFBB pro show

[chron]

No special pre-requisites to be a promoter.

winfitpromotions.com did have to fight with other promotors in the Toronto area to get this show! Jim Manion must have agreed to it based on Winstons prescedence with the IFBB. Nimrod King used to promote the show and before he started stealing the prize money to fill up his new cars, it used to be a great show to watch!

Hopefully we can get www.jamor.com to promote next years show! They have been doing a good job over the years promoting the local shows here in Toronto.

[Chick]

Winston is a great guy. Do you think he's doing this maliciously? Do you think he wants to lose thousands out of his pocket?

It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...!

[240 is Back]

Winston is a great guy. Do you think he's doing this maliciously? Do you think he wants to lose thousands out of his pocket?

It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...!

Bob, the thing I'm saying is, why didn't the athletes rep INSIST on a safeguard to make sure this exact same promoter didn't do the exact same thing, 2 years later?

I mean, if a guy blew a big annual event for ANY other organization, they wouldn't put him in charge of it again 2 years later with zero supervision/hand-holding to make sure he didn't drop the ball again.

The fact that you, the rep, don't INSIST on greater accountability is sad.  Your words tonight aren't even about making sure this doesn't happen again- you're talking about what a "great guy" that WInston is.

That may be true.  But put your friendship aside for a second and look at your role as Athlete's Rep.  What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen to the athletes again in 2 years, AGAIN, with the same promoter?

[Aerian]

We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...!

YEAH......!!!!!!!!


THATS THE KEY RIGHT THERE

[thisiskeith12]

Winston is a great guy. Do you think he's doing this maliciously? Do you think he wants to lose thousands out of his pocket?

It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...!

Yes Bob, but even you have stated that shows need to move at a quicker pace and provide more entertainment.

[Bigger Business]

I would like to think that if and when situations such as this arise, the governing organization can be counted on to step in and ensure that the competition be held as originally planned.

I agree......there is a thing called 'event insurance' but it should be the responsibility of the ifbb to step in. Theyre happy to take the 10 k or whatever it is but the promoters are the ones taken the losses and losing the sleep while they what...post a notice on a site?

Its their (IFBB's) responsibility......ya win some ya lose some, thats business.

sidenote........My first thought was Bob's doin the show and wanted all the other competitors to stop dieting.

[chron]

Bob, no doubt Winston is a tremendous guy! I have met him several times and he is an amazing guy to know and learn bodybuilding from!

He's just not that good at promoting shows!

The people talking on the internet are also the people wanting to buy tickets. A freind called me last week wanting to buy tickets to the show off of www.winfitpromotions.com and it gave you a link to www.ticketmaster.ca. When you clicked on the link, the link it had no mention of the Toronto Bodybuilding show.

I live in Toronto and train in different gyms here and not one gym or one third party bodybuilding website has a poster for this show! There was 2 tour buses full of supporters that were being organized from Toronto to Niagara Falls to go watch our local guys compete so the support is there. Just the availability isn't! We were prepared to line up and watch bodybuilding not buy a playstation 3.

[HRDCOR]

   Bob, the thing I'm saying is, why didn't the athletes rep INSIST on a safeguard to make sure this exact same promoter didn't do the exact same thing, 2 years later?

I mean, if a guy blew a big annual event for ANY other organization, they wouldn't put him in charge of it again 2 years later with zero supervision/hand-holding to make sure he didn't drop the ball again.

The fact that you, the rep, don't INSIST on greater accountability is sad.  Your words tonight aren't even about making sure this doesn't happen again- you're talking about what a "great guy" that WInston is.

That may be true.  But put your friendship aside for a second and look at your role as Athlete's Rep.  What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen to the athletes again in 2 years, AGAIN, with the same promoter?
 
                                                                                                                                                 

Ahhh this probibly doesnt help much bob , but Ahhhhhhhhhhh good pionts !!

[timfogarty]

It's the people that support shows...the fans. We need more of them actually GOING to shows and less TALKING about them on the internet...!

obviously the business model is not working.  let's see if we can figure out why:

it seems that more and more of these shows are trying to be big weekend events:   fitness expo, multiple contests, resort city.   The Olympia in Vegas, the Arnold, the Europa Super Show, the GNC what ever it was called.  They're expecting fans from throughout the world to descend on a town for the weekend.   Very profitable if you can pull it off.

But if you can't, why not just go for a single contest in a big theater in a major city?   A contest where 80% of the audience are from the local metropolitan area.   No sports expo.  No arm wrestling.  Just a one day  bodybuilding contest.   Spend 80% of your advertising budget locally, local gyms, alternative press.  If you can't break even that way, then bodybuilding is really on its last legs.

The promoters all seem to be aiming for the bleachers, wanting to hit a grand slam.  Perhaps there is only enough interest in North America for two mega events, the Arnold and the Olympia.

[THE BAD GUY]

This is a fucken joke fucken canadian fans eh

[Aerian]

Bob, the thing I'm saying is, why didn't the athletes rep INSIST on a safeguard to make sure this exact same promoter didn't do the exact same thing, 2 years later?

I mean, if a guy blew a big annual event for ANY other organization, they wouldn't put him in charge of it again 2 years later with zero supervision/hand-holding to make sure he didn't drop the ball again.

The fact that you, the rep, don't INSIST on greater accountability is sad.  Your words tonight aren't even about making sure this doesn't happen again- you're talking about what a "great guy" that WInston is.

That may be true.  But put your friendship aside for a second and look at your role as Athlete's Rep.  What are you doing to ensure this doesn't happen to the athletes again in 2 years, AGAIN, with the same promoter?

240 now do u realize that he is able to make things happen only with the support of the pros.  

He can present all the motions to the ifbb he wants but w/o signatures/support from enough pros the ifbb really could care less.

Of course those of us who care bout the sport are pissed at a move like this, who wouldnt be right??  

Sadly the pros are the ones who dont care.  When the majority of the pros dont say 2 words to BOB, when something bad like this happens, what is bob suppposed to do.  He can talk and talk and try his hardest to make actions happen but w/o support he cant.

I for one know that he has been bustin his balls tryin to make the life of a PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER beter, but has been hittin dead ends all over the place simply because the majority of the pros dont care.  

at least dont care atm......there has to be a way to unite em all but that has yet to be seen

[Chick]

First off...I can only "insist" so much. I need the support of my fellow athletes to have any real leverage. If you don't have any support, there isn't any "...or else!" you can exclaim.

I'm sure the IFBB is none too pleased about the cancellation either...but the IFBB doesn't promote shows. Why they don't promote their own shows is beyond me...but thats another issue for another time.

I've already "safeguarded" the purse...If the IFBB is interested in staying the best federation out there...they will make changes and hear the requests' of the athletes (or at least their rep).

[240 is Back]

I agree Bob is working hard.
However-  Why was he more concerned about talking up Winston tonight, instead of talking up the NEED for athletes to get involved and DEMAND contracts?

Bob Chick is NOT the Winston Rep.  He is the Athlete's Rep.  His only mention was, "Boys, change your airline tickets".  That's it?  Why is it that Internet "nobodies" like us are more concerned about the fans and athletes, and all Bob can talk about is: "Poor Winston".

Also- if Canadians still could not buy tickets a month out from the event, how long did WInston KNOW the event was doomed?  Don't you think that info would have been useful a little sooner to meen who are dieting and buying plane tickets?


Oh, and Bob, Bbing.com is still telling us the show is on:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/05torontoproinvite.htm

[240 is Back]

Also, WinFit (our good friend Winston) still has the Toronto Pro on his own website.

http://www.winfitpromotions.com/home.html

[Bast175]

winnie and arnie

[240 is Back]

Bob could do nothing but bash James for the Orlando mess.  Yet he's very nice about Winston:

Winston Roberts
President
winfit99@rogers.com
WinFit Promotions Inc.
397 Old Harwood ave
Ajax, Ontario. L1Z 1K2
Phone: 905-426-2766
Fax: 905-428-8036  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Robert Attieh
Vice President
rattieh1472@rogers.com
Tel: 416-414-4421  

[thisiskeith12]

First off...I can only "insist" so much. I need the support of my fellow athletes to have any real leverage. If you don't have any support, there isn't any "...or else!" you can exclaim.

Good point! As I mentioned earlier, you can't do it alone, you have to have leverage.