Dangers of Statin Drugs

[Van_Bilderass]

That'd be Paul Saladino.  After following a strict, very low-carb, meat-only diet for a while, and even writing a book about it, the guy came out as a closet sugar addict.  Now he eats insane amounts of very sweet, tropical fruits and lots of honey daily.  He even pours honey on his steaks.

He has since made lots of bold, crazy claims about the benefits of eating a very high sugar diet, even quoting studies funded by Coca-Cola...lol.  He'll do and say anything to justify his sugar addiction to his followers.

Apparently, he stays in shape burning off all that sugar by surfing in Costa Rica for many hours every day, he says.

Ok thanks, I don't follow these debates just saw a short reel where he mentioned this. My master guru was and still is Lyle McDonald and even though it was years ago I really followed him I still trust implicity that he was always right and he though the insulin model of weight gain, the crusade against vegetables by a some carnivores and etc was a bunch of shit 
How do you eat yourself and what kind of shape, say fat percentage, do you hold?

[IroNat]

What do you think about this. You are probably not that familiar with insulin use as a PED. But someone like wes takes under 30iu of 24 hour acting insulin per day as a replacement. Just as a relative reference point. You have a couple, and more who haven't talked about it, pro bodybuilders who do the following. First they take lots of GH which causes insulin resistance. Then they train twice daily. Before and after each session they take 25iu of fast acting insulin, that's 100iu total per day. Then in periods, or a couple of days per week, they add 100iu a day of the insulin wes takes abou 27iu of. AND in periods with the 100iu Lantus they eat about 1500g carbs. After years of this they claim perfect insulin sensitivity (there's a few ways to test it). Some of them attribute it to mostly only using during and around workouts so the insulin isn't active around the clock. But what the hell is going on lol, clearly things are a bit more complicated but I would attribute some of it to being so active and eating very low fat plus doing daily cardio. Plus they manage to stay extremely lean always, way leaner than what a doc would call perfect bf%.

Van,
I can't give any opinion on that as I only play a doctor on Getbig.
Wes' use of insulin is like your typical Type 1 diabetic whose pancreas does not produce insulin.
His pancreas has shut down due to his cancer.
The long term effect of the behavior of these pro-bbs is probably not good if they keep it up over an extended time frame.
They are messing with their body's hormones in so many ways it's probably hard to pinpoint where the edge of the cliff is.
Type 2 diabetes in the general population usually takes decades to manifest itself.
Blood glucose will appear normal (general population) because of the pancreas secreting insulin in higher and higher amounts to counteract growing insulin resistance.
Eventually the pancreas begins to run out of steam and Type 2 diabetes occurs.
Doctors rarely check insulin levels in regular bloodwork.

[Van_Bilderass]

Van,
I can't give any opinion on that as I only play a doctor on Getbig. 
The long term effect of the behavior of these pro-bbs is probably not good if they keep it up over an extended time frame.
They are messing with their body's hormones in so many ways it's probably hard to pinpoint where the edge of the cliff is.
Type 2 diabetes in the general population usually takes decades to manifest itself.
Blood glucose will appear normal (general population) because of the pancreas secreting insulin in higher and higher amounts to counteract growing insulin resistance.
Eventually the pancreas begins to run out of steam and Type 2 diabetes occurs.
Doctors rarely check insulin levels in regular bloodwork.

You're right. Some of these guys check a bunch of parameters by themself almost weekly (!), and sometimes include things like fasting, maybe even post prandial, insulin levels, things docs would never check normally unless the bloodwork was off. But of course they are playing with fire, things can easily go haywire and they know it too, some of these guys aren't stupid. And example of checking bloodwork, I recently had pancreatitis and docs told me they NEVER check inflammation markers after initial confirmation of inflammation, they assume the knflammation will just pass with time, no interventions really. One of these bodybuilders had pancreatitis and he's held very close check on his inflammation levels for a whole year trying different things to bring it down as much as possible. So perhaps even going overboard with the monitoring. What's a bit ridiculous, and I think highly illegal since they aren't docs, is all these bb coaches and gurus requiring bloodwork before they start working wiith a client and then at different points. Perhaps it's good in the sense that they might catch some real red flags but playing doctor is illegal. Here in Sweden docs really resisted allowing private citizens to order bloodwork themselves and in some countries you aren't even allowed to do so.

[IroNat]

You're right. Some of these guys check a bunch of parameters by themself almost weekly (!), and sometimes include things like fasting, maybe even post prandial, insulin levels, things docs would never check normally unless the bloodwork was off. But of course they are playing with fire, things can easily go haywire and they know it too, some of these guys aren't stupid. And example of checking bloodwork, I recently had pancreatitis and docs told me they NEVER check inflammation markers after initial confirmation of inflammation, they assume the knflammation will just pass with time, no interventions really. One of these bodybuilders had pancreatitis and he's held very close check on his inflammation levels for a whole year trying different things to bring it down as much as possible. So perhaps even going overboard with the monitoring. What's a bit ridiculous, and I think highly illegal since they aren't docs, is all these bb coaches and gurus requiring bloodwork before they start working wiith a client and then at different points. Perhaps it's good in the sense that they might catch some real red flags but playing doctor is illegal. Here in Sweden docs really resisted allowing private citizens to order bloodwork themselves and in some countries you aren't even allowed to do so.

You can order your own bloodwork at least in some states in the U.S. (not sure about all).

However, it is not covered by insurance as far as I know if you do this on your own.  Only if a doctor prescribed it.

If a doctor prescribe the tests in the case of a annual physical, even then, insurance companies only cover certain tests, usually the basic bloodwork tests, for "free".  Anything beyond basic tests then you have to pay all or part.

When you get your lab results from the lab, it shows you the parameters for each test and you can see if you are out of whack.

This is all the doctors do when they review your tests. 

[GymnJuice]

You're right. Some of these guys check a bunch of parameters by themself almost weekly (!), and sometimes include things like fasting, maybe even post prandial, insulin levels, things docs would never check normally unless the bloodwork was off. But of course they are playing with fire, things can easily go haywire and they know it too, some of these guys aren't stupid. And example of checking bloodwork, I recently had pancreatitis and docs told me they NEVER check inflammation markers after initial confirmation of inflammation, they assume the knflammation will just pass with time, no interventions really. One of these bodybuilders had pancreatitis and he's held very close check on his inflammation levels for a whole year trying different things to bring it down as much as possible. So perhaps even going overboard with the monitoring. What's a bit ridiculous, and I think highly illegal since they aren't docs, is all these bb coaches and gurus requiring bloodwork before they start working wiith a client and then at different points. Perhaps it's good in the sense that they might catch some real red flags but playing doctor is illegal. Here in Sweden docs really resisted allowing private citizens to order bloodwork themselves and in some countries you aren't even allowed to do so.

There is a very strong association between diabetes and heart disease. It isn't well understood exactly what the cause is (lots of correlations, not good data on a specific cause). I don't think you'll ever see good long term studies on people taking insulin when they don't have diabetes but I'd bet they have a higher incidence of heart disease.

[Grape Ape]

A tbls of honey alone won't hurt you.

A tbls of honey combined with donuts, pizza, ice cream, grains, bread, rice, pasta, cake, cookies, fruit loops, soda pop, etc. will hurt you.

Fixed version

Donuts, pizza, ice cream, grains, bread, rice, pasta, cake, cookies, fruit loops, soda pop, etc. will hurt you.

[IroNat]

Fixed version

Donuts, pizza, ice cream, grains, bread, rice, pasta, cake, cookies, fruit loops, soda pop, etc. will hurt you.

We forgot the peach cobbler!

[Van_Bilderass]

There is a very strong association between diabetes and heart disease. It isn't well understood exactly what the cause is (lots of correlations, not good data on a specific cause). I don't think you'll ever see good long term studies on people taking insulin when they don't have diabetes but I'd bet they have a higher incidence of heart disease.

Exactly, it's unknown pretty much, as far as I know if the insulin itself is very harmful though I have vague memories reading about negative mechanisms. But diabetes and cardiovascular disease, zero doubt. As you probably know insulin can actually save a bodybuilders pancreas and other organs if he takes a lot of GH which can cause hyperglycemia. Many bodybuilders only take insulin before training so the thinking goes that you are only exposed to high levels for a few hours, which would limit potential damage. Milos Sarcev has used insulin for 35 years and he isn't diabetic and is in fact in fantastic shape, though this is just an anecdote and no proof of anything.

[Grape Ape]

We forgot the peach cobbler!

The anabolic positives outweigh the negatives here