Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Matt C]

[NeoSeminole]

is that the best you got, little girl?

What you said is not true by any stretch of the imagination, you dishonest f**k. You did say that the 2001 ASC Ronnie carried more lean muscle mass than the 1999 Ronnie, and you provided as speculation that Ronnie has mentioned that he gained an average of 5 lbs of muscle per year. When I demonstrated through logic, basic knowledge of physiology and simple arithmatic that this is simply impossible, you changed your claim to "he might have gained only 1 pound or 2". Which I also demonstrated that is extremely unlikely. Your quote is there for everyone to read.

again, please show me where I directly said that 01 ASC Ronnie carried 2 lbs more of lean mass than 99 Ronnie. You still haven't. I wonder why... Until then, shut the f*ck up with your lies and misinformation. I do believe that 01 ASC Ronnie gained muscle from 99-01. However, I never stated how much b/c I don't know. Now you are claiming I said something that I never did.

Even Pobrecito, who hates me, pointed out that you did claim that Ronnie carried more lean muscle mass in 2001 than he did in 1999. Your quote was something like "Do you really expect that Ronnie wasn't bigger in 2001 than in 1999?" These are not the literal words, but the message was the same. You then supplied as further speculative evidence for this assertion that "his arms, delts and chest looked fuller in 2001". Again, not the exact words, but the meaning of the oration was the same. If you were arguing that Ronnie lost 13 lbs because he was drier and lost quad mass while his other measurements remained the same, then you'd be simply agreeing with me that he carried less lean muscle mass in 2001.

If I did indeed claim (which I doubt) that 01 ASC Ronnie's arms, delts and chest looked fuller, then I take back what I said. I know for a fact that I later said his chest lost some of its fullness in 01. His arms and delts looked the same size as 99. Furthermore, Ronnie weighed 10 lbs less at the 01 ASC - NOT 13 lbs.

To be honest, I'm tired of arguing with a guy who never admits that he committed a logical faux pas, and that grasps at semantics to manipulate every word he wrote to make it seem like he didn't say something that he did. What's the point of continuing this? I'm absolutely, positively convinced that I owned you, and you'll deny it to the very end. There was no double entendre in what you wrote; you're just trying to save face from a losing proposition.

I'm absolutely convinced that I, along with everyone else at getbig, owned you. What's your point?

[Bear]

Do you reall think thats an accurate representation of how the two would appear? lol give me a break

Alright, I'll strike a compromise. I can accept that these are not the fairest pair of pics to compare, if you can accept that in these two pics Ronnie is winning. Not that Ronnie is better, but that he is in this comparison. At least then we know we're both not mental, and this can continue as a real debate and not just insults and stuff.?

[Scimowser]

seriously, 20,000+ posts and people are still arguing over the same photos! how many times can you air an opinion FFS?

[NarcissisticDeity]

completely irrelevant. Surely you agree that a large bilateral asymmetry is worse than a small one. Dorian had a torn bicep. If you want to nitpick at minor imbalances such as Ronnie's calves, then Dorian had a whole host of imbalances. His traps don't line up, each bicep is shaped differently (pre-tear), his abs are uneven, and one side of his Christmas tree is asymmetrical to the other. It may be true that nothing in nature is perfectly symmetrical, but in bodybuilding the judges reward physiques that display greater symmetry. Flex Wheeler was often referred to as "the sultan of symmetry" b/c each side of his body was a mirror half of the other.

Nobody said that Ronnie's calves were proportionate to his quads. As for his glutes, they are balanced with his equally huge thighs and upper body. His arms do not dwarf his delts. In fact, they are actually perfectly balanced if we use other legendary bodybuilders as a model. Larry Scott had arms that were just as big, if not larger, than his delts. Arnold had arms that were just as big, if not larger, than his delts. Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, and Kevin Levrone were also the same. Regarding his front and side delts overpowering his pecs in the side chest, this is an issue of posing. Most of the shots you see of him in the side chest are taken immediately after he hits this pose before he has time to rotate his torso. I can post a pic of Dorian hitting a side chest with his delts obscuring his pecs too. It's due to posing style - NOT a balance issue.

I agree that Dorian was more conditioned than 03 Ronnie. However, the difference wasn't that much. Ronnie carried more water than usual in his back and midsection, but the rest of him appeared dry and shredded. The definition in his arms and legs actually improved from previous years (not including 01 ASC). His hamstrings were even striated, which is something I've never seen anyone else have.

completely irrelevant. Surely you agree that a large bilateral asymmetry is worse than a small one. Dorian had a torn bicep. If you want to nitpick at minor imbalances such as Ronnie's calves, then Dorian had a whole host of imbalances. His traps don't line up, each bicep is shaped differently (pre-tear), his abs are uneven, and one side of his Christmas tree is asymmetrical to the other. It may be true that nothing in nature is perfectly symmetrical, but in bodybuilding the judges reward physiques that display greater symmetry. Flex Wheeler was often referred to as "the sultan of symmetry" b/c each side of his body was a mirror half of the other.

Dorian didn't have a torn bicep in 1993 and if symmetry only meant right/left exactness than Dorian would have never won ANY symmetry round in his career yet he never lost a symmetry round in his Olympia career despite all of his asymmetries and torn muscles , and the irony is each time he beat " The Sultan of Symmetry " they may look an right/left exactness to a degree but the meat & potatoes of the symmetry round in balance & proportional development

Nobody said that Ronnie's calves were proportionate to his quads. As for his glutes, they are balanced with his equally huge thighs and upper body. His arms do not dwarf his delts. In fact, they are actually perfectly balanced if we use other legendary bodybuilders as a model. Larry Scott had arms that were just as big, if not larger, than his delts. Arnold had arms that were just as big, if not larger, than his delts. Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler, and Kevin Levrone were also the same. Regarding his front and side delts overpowering his pecs in the side chest, this is an issue of posing. Most of the shots you see of him in the side chest are taken immediately after he hits this pose before he has time to rotate his torso. I can post a pic of Dorian hitting a side chest with his delts obscuring his pecs too. It's due to posing style - NOT a balance issue.

No one can argue that Ronnie's calve are proportionate to his quads thats obvious , and I disagree about the glutes they're overdeveloped to the point they stick way out and thats not proportionate , not when they can be seen from the front , and his arms in the back double biceps pose do make his delts appear small this has been shown countless times and I don't care whos delts were like that , that doesn't mean its not a fact , today most bodybuilders have calves to small for their quads should we all now think this is desireable ? most Pros today have giant guts is this now preferable? and the front & side delts its NOT a matter of just posing its a matter of proportion , remember its called the side chest shot , not the twisting chest shot ( although guys do it ) the side chest shot if supposed to be IN PROFILE

I agree that Dorian was more conditioned than 03 Ronnie. However, the difference wasn't that much. Ronnie carried more water than usual in his back and midsection, but the rest of him appeared dry and shredded. The definition in his arms and legs actually improved from previous years (not including 01 ASC). His hamstrings were even striated, which is something I've never seen anyone else have.

Well I mean its obvious that Ronnie 03 if not as conditioned as he was in 1998/2001 and those are the best two examples of Ronnie coming close to Dorian's level of conditioning and I disagree he wasn't off by much , he was noticebaly off he wasn't as close as he was and why? he was too big , and his arms & legs didn't improve from previous years 1998/2001 ASC take a look at the separation in both these years VS 03 NO CONTEST and please show me the ' striations ' in the hams you posted this before and honestly if he had them I would admit it I don't see them

[Necrosis]

I agree that Dorian was more conditioned than 03 Ronnie. However, the difference wasn't that much. Ronnie carried more water than usual in his back and midsection, but the rest of him appeared dry and shredded. The definition in his arms and legs actually improved from previous years (not including 01 ASC). His hamstrings were even striated, which is something I've never seen anyone else have.


Dorian didn't have a torn bicep in 1993 and if symmetry only meant right/left exactness than Dorian would have never won ANY symmetry round in his career yet he never lost a symmetry round in his Olympia career despite all of his asymmetries and torn muscles , and the irony is each time he beat " The Sultan of Symmetry " they may look an right/left exactness to a degree but the meat & potatoes of the symmetry round in balance & proportional development

dude you dont know what symmetry means. bilateral symmetry means right left, or in some species equivalent bodyparts being mirror images of each other. take the biceps, they are composed of the same two muscles on both sides and in an ideal world should be the same shape size etc. please tell me how symmetry as i defined above can be measured between biceps and calves, when the natural muscle shape, amount of fibers and positioning,ligaments,tendons and connectivity arent even remotely the same.you can say your arm and leg are symmetrycal there is no guidline since the two bodyparts arent equivalent. proportion is the word your looking for, the symmetry round does measure right left, or two complimentary muscles exactness, wether right/left diagonal/striaght decahedron/tetrahedron 2,3-dimethyl-4,8-nonadiyne/butane black/white, hispanic/jewish prairie vole/montane vole it doestn matter. if the judges are using the word symmetry to describe non-exact muscles then they are not using the word correctly, a better word is proportion. symmetry and proportion are a round and mean two different things. the bicep ruins right to left symmetry and proportion as one arm is to small say for the back, chest, forearms etc.. they ignored his tear, once a guy wins the olympia,arnold etc the judges have a tendency to reward them unfairly. look at jay in his thrid arnold, he clearly lost. if ronnie won this year it would have been a farce. his symmetry was bad, as was his conditioning.

the definition round as outline in my earlier post has nothing to do with hardness nor dryness. if you show "cuts" or striations, seperation both within a muscle(striations are seperation within a group) and between muscles(tie-ins) it doesnt matter if your dry,hard,low in bodyfat, you are conditioned. they dont say he is dry,or he is low in bodyfat, they say he has great definition which comprises all the things above. while dryness and low bodyfat aid in these areas they arent the criteria being judged they are epiphenomenal as i have already stated, the ingredient that creates the final end(defintion) but the sum isnt important(dryness, bodyfat) just the whole(a striated, seperated,cut body). as you see the more water ronnie holds the less defined he is, same with bodyfat. applying this same logic to dorian, his quads aren't greatly defined nor seperated hence, he is not defined, hence he is not that low in bodyfat in that area or he holds water in the area blurring definiton.

 

[Necrosis]

also conditioning(wich there is no round for) or definition as it is called in the judging criteria isnt a global thing like you would have us beleive. take 06 ronnie, his arms, namely biceps were greatly seperated, vascular(a by-product of thin skin, dryness) while his back was soft(high bf or water) that blurred definition(the criteria). some parts can be better conditioned then others, another example is lee priest with upper and lower body differences.

dorians back was dry and low in bf equaling greatly striated, seperated muscles and groups. however, his leg were not dry, nor conditioned to the level of his back hence the lack of seperation and striations, along with his arms and delts. his chest is striated another example of local conditioning.

[Hulkster]

the definition round as outline in my earlier post has nothing to do with hardness nor dryness. if you show "cuts" or striations, seperation both within a muscle(striations are seperation within a group) and between muscles(tie-ins) it doesnt matter if your dry,hard,low in bodyfat, you are conditioned. they dont say he is dry,or he is low in bodyfat, they say he has great definition which comprises all the things above. while dryness and low bodyfat aid in these areas they arent the criteria being judged they are epiphenomenal as i have already stated, the ingredient that creates the final end(defintion) but the sum isnt important(dryness, bodyfat) just the whole(a striated, seperated,cut body). as you see the more water ronnie holds the less defined he is, same with bodyfat. applying this same logic to dorian, his quads aren't greatly defined nor seperated hence, he is not defined, hence he is not that low in bodyfat in that area or he holds water in the area blurring definiton.

very true.

ND just cannot accept the fact that dorian (or 'Doughian' if you prefer hehe) had arms and quads that were dough-like and smooth compared to Ronnie, and especially compared to his own abs and lower back..

sorry Doughian:

[Hulkster]

again, Doughian doesn't hold up in the definition and detail department compared to Ronnie:

and yet ND just keeps posting about Doughian's better 'conditioning" 'density' and 'detail' as if nothing is happening.

he really has no clue..

[Hulkster]

and proportion as one arm is to small say for the back, chest, forearms etc..

what about BOTH arms?

hahahahaha

[Necrosis]

again, Doughian doesn't hold up in the definition and detail department compared to Ronnie:

and yet ND just keeps posting about Doughian's better 'conditioning" 'density' and 'detail' as if nothing is happening.

he really has no clue..

from these pics you can see that ronnies biceps are better defined, you can see the split in the MM i posted earlier thus he has better seperation in that group. the sep. bt his bis and tris are much more clealy defined in that pose with deep division bt the groups, thus better seperation. his quads are obvious. his delts are much more striated(better intramuscle definition) and have better definition between the groups(intermuscle seperation). his chest has more striations, and you can see connectivity postions indicating deeper seperation, dorian has the same complex, and because you cant see the connection bt the major and minor it is logical to conclude more superficial and less seperated muscle. his tie-ins are poor based on the assertions above.however, for example look at ronnies right delt to chest tie in. the anterior deltoid is seperated and raised above his chest insertion(as would be correct for that pose) and they appear as two totally different muscles with clear boundaries, something not even remotely evident on dorian.

[NarcissisticDeity]

dude you dont know what symmetry means. bilateral symmetry means right left, or in some species equivalent bodyparts being mirror images of each other. take the biceps, they are composed of the same two muscles on both sides and in an ideal world should be the same shape size etc. please tell me how symmetry as i defined above can be measured between biceps and calves, when the natural muscle shape, amount of fibers and positioning,ligaments,tendons and connectivity arent even remotely the same.you can say your arm and leg are symmetrycal there is no guidline since the two bodyparts arent equivalent. proportion is the word your looking for, the symmetry round does measure right left, or two complimentary muscles exactness, wether right/left diagonal/striaght decahedron/tetrahedron 2,3-dimethyl-4,8-nonadiyne/butane black/white, hispanic/jewish prairie vole/montane vole it doestn matter. if the judges are using the word symmetry to describe non-exact muscles then they are not using the word correctly, a better word is proportion. symmetry and proportion are a round and mean two different things. the bicep ruins right to left symmetry and proportion as one arm is to small say for the back, chest, forearms etc.. they ignored his tear, once a guy wins the olympia,arnold etc the judges have a tendency to reward them unfairly. look at jay in his thrid arnold, he clearly lost. if ronnie won this year it would have been a farce. his symmetry was bad, as was his conditioning.

the definition round as outline in my earlier post has nothing to do with hardness nor dryness. if you show "cuts" or striations, seperation both within a muscle(striations are seperation within a group) and between muscles(tie-ins) it doesnt matter if your dry,hard,low in bodyfat, you are conditioned. they dont say he is dry,or he is low in bodyfat, they say he has great definition which comprises all the things above. while dryness and low bodyfat aid in these areas they arent the criteria being judged they are epiphenomenal as i have already stated, the ingredient that creates the final end(defintion) but the sum isnt important(dryness, bodyfat) just the whole(a striated, seperated,cut body). as you see the more water ronnie holds the less defined he is, same with bodyfat. applying this same logic to dorian, his quads aren't greatly defined nor seperated hence, he is not defined, hence he is not that low in bodyfat in that area or he holds water in the area blurring definiton.

 

I know what symmetry means and while in the symmetry rounds they may look and left/right exactness its NOT the only criteria that falls under the term symmetry , and again it also muscle balance & proportion all of these are judged in the symmetry round

And again Dorian tore in quad in 1994 because it doesn't show great separation it does NOT mean its smooth in the context of holding water and unless you were live in person you're already behind the eight ball judging his TRUE conditioning/definition by means of photos and video and why?



Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.


MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia


" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .

Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.



s is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "

" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own.  Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.

Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007

The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...



Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).

So unless you were there spare me your thoughts on Dorian's conditioning based on pictures & video because these quotes crush your opinion and even if you were there you still don't know what you're talking about when you say Ronnie 2003 has better conditioning , so spare me your arm-chair assessments 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie 98 owning 03 in terms of separation , dryness & hardness

[natural al]

Ronnie 98 owning 03 in terms of separation , dryness & hardness

that right there is EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH BB TODAY.

[Hulkster]

ND, why do you keep falling back on quotes when someone proves you wrong using reality?

 

[natural al]

worst pics ever:

[Hulkster]

and dorian's quads were ALWAYS smooth long before any quad tear.


smooth arms. smooth quads. great abs. okay chest.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, why do you keep falling back on quotes when someone proves you wrong using reality?

 

Kid shut up about reality you're talking about viewing photographs online compared to someone who was the in REALITY you've melteddown to nothing your comments , these quotes SILENCE ANYTHING you and your friends can come up with in terms Dorian's conditioning and his general appearence , please don't comment on Dorian's conditioning based on pics & video you and usmoke CANNOT counter these quotes and thats exactlt why you hate them 

[NarcissisticDeity]

worst pics ever:

Are you kidding me? lol some guys were actually arguing he should have won those contests

[NarcissisticDeity]

This is the best quote man lol Hulkster it really sucks to be you always claiming look at the pictures Shawn smokes Dorian LMFAO


Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).

Shawn looks better in pics than in person and Yates looks better in person than in pics LMFAO

Hulkster go back and hide your head in the sand lol

[Necrosis]

I know what symmetry means and while in the symmetry rounds they may look and left/right exactness its NOT the only criteria that falls under the term symmetry , and again it also muscle balance & proportion all of these are judged in the symmetry round

And again Dorian tore in quad in 1994 because it doesn't show great separation it does NOT mean its smooth in the context of holding water and unless you were live in person you're already behind the eight ball judging his TRUE conditioning/definition by means of photos and video and why?



Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.


MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia


" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .

Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.



s is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "

" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own.  Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.

Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007

The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...



Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).

So unless you were there spare me your thoughts on Dorian's conditioning based on pictures & video because these quotes crush your opinion and even if you were there you still don't know what you're talking about when you say Ronnie 2003 has better conditioning , so spare me your arm-chair assessments 

horrible rebuttal, i accept your defeat, that was quicker then usual.

so i guess the photos you've been posting for 900 pages are pointless by your own account and somehow dorian is more seperated in real life(a strawman) but ronnie does not? this is ludicris and frankly a admission of lack of support for your claims.

also, i have the mag talking about RONNIE THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME?. top industry officials, competitors, journalists make statments about ronnie being the best of all time, and raising the bar. do they rebut your quotes? since it is an subjective sport opinons are like asshole and everyone has them, some opinions hold more water, but are not the be all end all, and who really knows the most, a phd in anatomy, a competitor, a judge, a judge who competed, a avid fan etc theres no standard to decide, the best we can do is come close to the ideal, but the defintion of subjectivity shows that quotes arent the final authority, plus i could post conflicting quotes from mags, officials etc.

the pics are the closest medium to real life we have(vids also, but they are hard to compare), so saying he looks better in person is another strawman, go look up the defiinition in a argumentative context, you are the master of them, except your strawman hasnt received his brain yet.

you've posted a thousand pics on the thread for proof of your claims, then whent he photos show otherwise, you attack there creduality, showing your lack of reasoning and logic.

all find the quotes from flex, lee, peter,female bbs,jounalist etc from that mag if that is now your only tactic.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Is this that idiot Preator? you and him sound like the same broken record lol , anyway the comments hold true please don't comment on Dorian's conditioning unless you were there and unless you know what you're talking about and you don't obviously when you think Ronnie's was better conditioned in 03 than Yates at his best , please spare yourself 

please tell me you're Preator fenix lol

[Hulkster]

horrible rebuttal, i accept your defeat, that was quicker then usual.

so i guess the photos you've been posting for 900 pages are pointless by your own account and somehow dorian is more seperated in real life(a strawman) but ronnie does not? this is ludicris and frankly a admission of lack of support for your claims.

also, i have the mag talking about RONNIE THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME?. top industry officials, competitors, journalists make statments about ronnie being the best of all time, and raising the bar. do they rebut your quotes? since it is an subjective sport opinons are like asshole and everyone has them, some opinions hold more water, but are not the be all end all, and who really knows the most, a phd in anatomy, a competitor, a judge, a judge who competed, a avid fan etc theres no standard to decide, the best we can do is come close to the ideal, but the defintion of subjectivity shows that quotes arent the final authority, plus i could post conflicting quotes from mags, officials etc.

the pics are the closest medium to real life we have(vids also, but they are hard to compare), so saying he looks better in person is another strawman, go look up the defiinition in a argumentative context, you are the master of them, except your strawman hasnt received his brain yet.

you've posted a thousand pics on the thread for proof of your claims, then whent he photos show otherwise, you attack there creduality, showing your lack of reasoning and logic.

all find the quotes from flex, lee, peter,female bbs,jounalist etc from that mag if that is now your only tactic.

excellent post!

ND will probably respond with either:

-'yawn'
-lol
-is that all you got kid?
- or post some random 12 year old quotes again..

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

excellent post!

ND will probably respond with either:

-'yawn'
-lol
-is that all you got kid?
- or post some random 12 year old quotes again..

 

No this will be my response 


Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).

what do you have to work with now Hulkster? NOTHING 

[Necrosis]

nope im not, ive read one post by him. so what is the point of this thread, i suppose again by your own admission unless you've seen them compete at there best(the poit of the debate) then you cant comment, another moot point since no one has. your truly a moron. i said ronnie is better conditioned fromt he MM pic in the splits then dorian and he is based on the criteria called definition which is the primary criteria in conditioning. shape would be the secondary as poorly conditioned muscles lack shape.

is this the best you have, im owning you badly. thank you for the compliment on intelligence by comparison to preator. heard he was a smart dude from suckmymuscle.