Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NeoSeminole]

You cannot not say with 100% certainty that Ronnie 01 ASC had better overall conditioning , you just can't especially taken into account Yates , Priest and McGough who all say Yates has better conditioning , you make an empty claim and then you think you accomplished something and you haven't . try backing up your claim it might help.

I can say with 100% certainty Ronnie had better conditioning than Dorian. Ronnie at the 01 ASC displayed all the tell-tale signs of Dorian's level of conditioning and then some.

[NeoSeminole]

cheekbones anyone?

[Hulkster]

I understand that the opinion is popular and you wont get an argument from me about that but the moment you cling to the argument ad populum , claiming its a fact because its popular you will get corrected . 

read this about ad populum and the valid case of it:

The main problem with this fallacy is the fact that many people agree on something does not imply that what they agree on  is true; nevertheless, the fact that many people agree, can be relevant evidence for the truth in some instances.  The trick is to understand the nature of the relevance of the premisses to the conclusion.

we are NOT saying that ronnie will win just because the opinion is popular. we are saying he will win because he is better, as shown in the comparisons.
do you understand the difference?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Sure it's what I'm saying. I never said that the majority of opinions translate into a fact.
Also you can't use the word "right" when referring to the outcome of a bodybuilding competition, at least not in an objective sense. Opinions about subjective matters are not objectively right or wrong. What I'm trying to say is that the outcome of this subjective debate seems to be in Ronnie's favor because way more people (and these are not only getbiggers but also many experts) prefer him over Dorian.
Is it right or wrong? The question is not even appropriate because bodybuilding is a subjective sport. What we can say is that for the majority of the readers of this endless thread the arguments in Ronnie's favor are stronger. Period.

You'll get no argument from me that in popular opinion Ronnie is ' better ' but that still doesn't mean its true , now look at why this may be , and sucky touched up on it , Yates won his last Olympia 10 years ago before the strong advent of the internet , when I first started coming on the boards there were a LOT more  Coleman pictures than Yates , and couple that with the fact Ronnie was the current Mr Olympia and its easy to see why , and your average fan is clueless about how bodybuilding contests are judged , hence why fan reaction to judges picks is often the 180 degrees , and most people go on personal perference and not what contests on judged upon

Perfect example the 2002 Mr Olympia , the judges choose Ronnie as the winner and the crowd collectively Booed Ronnie everyone wanted Kevin to win does this mean that he should have won? NO Ronnie meet the criteria better than Kevin that particular day but it would be faulty to claim because some many people agreed Kevin should have won its a fact he should have won .

[NarcissisticDeity]

I can say with 100% certainty Ronnie had better conditioning than Dorian. Ronnie at the 01 ASC displayed all the tell-tale signs of Dorian's level of conditioning and then some.

You've proven nothing , zero lol not a thing you posted a few pictures and made an empty claim  , Neo thats NOT a way to make an argument lol keep trying.

[NeoSeminole]

ND actually thinks Dorian had better conditioning than this.

this is as dry and shredded as you can get. With Dorian, I still see room for improvement in a few areas.

[NarcissisticDeity]

read this about ad populum and the valid case of it:

we are NOT saying that ronnie will win just because the opinion is popular. we are saying he will win because he is better, as shown in the comparisons.
do you understand the difference?

Its NOT a valid point any appeal to numbers is wrong in its essence , and again the vehicle in which you got to your popular opinion does NOT matter , because in the end you're claiming he's better because everyone agrees he is , faulty logic its a weak argument , and I've addressed all of the reasons why you think he's better and on top of your faulty argument ad populum , the means in which you reached your popular opinion is just as faulty , slanted comparisons , ignoring the real facts that you can't base an opinion of Dorian based on pictures because he looks much better in person , the fact that none of you have the first clue of how contests are judged ( another proven fact by me ) and you're still behind the 8 ball and have proven nothing , other than the fact that more people believe Ronnie is better , which I'm not arguing.

[NeoSeminole]

You've proven nothing , zero lol not a thing you posted a few pictures and made an empty claim, Neo thats NOT a way to make an argument lol keep trying.

yes, photographic evidence in a sport based on visuals is "not a way to make an argument."

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND actually thinks Dorian had better conditioning than this.

this is as dry and shredded as you can get. With Dorian, I still see room for improvement in a few areas.

Neo I'm surprised at you , you usually make an effort to try and back up you claims , maybe its obvious you can't , you're taken the Hulkster route , post pictures and claim you're right

Lets start with there is NO honest and accurate means of you ascertaining Dorian's level of conditioning via pictures and videos , if you say this is nonsense you admit defeat

Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.

Chris Cormier  You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example). Despite that caveat, and despite the fact that these peepers

Now please couple that with the quotes from Dorian Yates who said when directly compared to Ronnie he has better conditioning , the quote from Lee Priest who said once again he has better conditioning when directly compared to Ronnie and finally Peter McGough's quote that sucky posted about NO ONE ever matching Dorian's hardness , we have to take it on the authority of others knowing that Yates doesn't translate well in pictures and the authority has spoken and the consensus is Dorian is the better conditioned of the two

Ronnie 2001 was very well conditioned along with 1998 probably his best and I think probably on par with Dorian at his best but surpass it NO and according to the above quotes Dorian is better conditioned than Ronnie period , so taking all that into consideration you're proven dead wrong and I have the quotes to back me up not just pictures .

[NarcissisticDeity]

yes, photographic evidence in a sport based on visuals is "not a way to make an argument."

See above post !! 

[Hulkster]

yes, photographic evidence in a sport based on visuals is "not a way to make an argument."

ND has no fucking clue how to provide evidence, premises, support, what ever you want to call it, for a particular conclusion.

he just does not understand how to defend his position.

this has been painfully obvious since he came back.

its worse now than before his hiatus.

[NeoSeminole]

ND, all you did was post pics of Dorian's back and 1 shot of his midsection. Whoop-tee-doo!!! Ronnie matches Dorian's level of conditioning from the back and exceeds him from the front.

[IceCold]

ND, all you did was post pics of Dorian's back and 1 shot of his midsection. Whoop-tee-doo!!! Ronnie matches Dorian's level of conditioning from the back and exceeds him from the front.

even if ronnie did match dorian's conditioning for arguments sake, he still is 10 lbs lighter than yates at his best.

[NeoSeminole]

Ronnie's flexed midsection looked damn good at the 01 ASC. Here he is compared to Dorian at his prime.

[NeoSeminole]

even if ronnie did match dorian's conditioning for arguments sake, he still is 10 lbs lighter than yates at his best.

10 lbs means nothing. According to ND, a 275 lbs Paul Dillet and 315 lbs Lou Ferrigno couldn't make Dorian look small. What makes you think a 257 lbs blocky Dorian would make a 247 lbs Ronnie with smaller joints, fuller muscles, and better taper look small?

[IceCold]

Ronnie's flexed midsection looked damn good at the 01 ASC. Here he is compared to Dorian at his prime.

not really.

yates is still dryer.

[Get Rowdy]

Personally, I think Ronnie's midsection looks like shit in that pic.

[Hulkster]

and 315 lbs Lou Ferrigno couldn't make Dorian look small

yes, but this is ND and he is in his own little world of misunderstanding and avoidance of reality..

[Hulkster]

ND, all you did was post pics of Dorian's back and 1 shot of his midsection. Whoop-tee-doo!!! Ronnie matches Dorian's level of conditioning from the back and exceeds him from the front.

exactly.

all ND does is post shots of yates from the back to avoid posting his arms and legs...

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND has no fucking clue how to provide evidence, premises, support, what ever you want to call it, for a particular conclusion.

he just does not understand how to defend his position.

this has been painfully obvious since he came back.

its worse now than before his hiatus.

All you do is make empty claims , you've never once proven me wrong , all you do is type I'm wrong but you've supported it nothing at all , again put up or shut up , stop making empty claims .

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, all you did was post pics of Dorian's back and 1 shot of his midsection. Whoop-tee-doo!!! Ronnie matches Dorian's level of conditioning from the back and exceeds him from the front.

Again you type empty claims give me a break , one the means in which you reached your conclusion is inaccurate unless you seen Dorian live and in person in 1995 and Ronnie live and in person in 2001 you have NO clue what so ever if Ronnie matches him from the back and exceeds his from the front , its an empty claim with nothing to support

and again what part of this quote by Peter McGough did you miss?


  "These words should not be taken lightly, because no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows."

what part of no bodybuilder give you get stumped on? and let me quote you for a moment '

the man knows a hell of a lot more about bodybuilding than you ever will. It's his job to attend shows, have front row seats, and write reviews.

and let me ad insult to injury

Kevin Horoton GetBig Dec 30th 2006

The photo is technically terrible, fortunately the physique is awesome.
I'd agree with Kris about Dorian showing up on stage how he looked a few weeks out. There are some shots of him at around 280 - 285 shredded. That conditioning has not been surpassed.

See a trend here? Dorian is the yardstick in which conditioned mass is measured by . you present a very weak argument my friend .

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie's flexed midsection looked damn good at the 01 ASC. Here he is compared to Dorian at his prime.

Ronnie's flexed midsection does look good ( although you can see it pushing out ) however this is Dorian's pose , Ronnie is making NO impact on Yates in this shot despite having the smaller waist & hips

[NarcissisticDeity]

10 lbs means nothing. According to ND, a 275 lbs Paul Dillet and 315 lbs Lou Ferrigno couldn't make Dorian look small. What makes you think a 257 lbs blocky Dorian would make a 247 lbs Ronnie with smaller joints, fuller muscles, and better taper look small?

He's not 10 pounds lighter he's anywhere from 13 to 16 pounds lighter ( 1995 he was 260 lbs ) and it wasn't according to me it was according to an IFBB judge  and let me get this straight a couple of guys who weighed much more than Dorian couldn't make him look small and a guy who weighs less could? lmfao you're heading down meltdown lane kid .

[NarcissisticDeity]

yes, but this is ND and he is in his own little world of misunderstanding and avoidance of reality..

No this is reality kid ! this if from an IFBB Judge who was there live & in person you know ( reality ), and ironically the picture you posted is from the contest on which this quote is from

I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab

Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.


It doesn't get better than this 

[NarcissisticDeity]

exactly.

all ND does is post shots of yates from the back to avoid posting his arms and legs...

Oh boy lol you just post the most absolute nonsense , kid get in the game or sit on the side lines .