for one im not going to post the pro ronnie quotes because there are many, and they have nothing to do with our discussion, when the pics are the best comparisons we have, this point seems to have fallen on deaf ears. if i wanted to argue i would own you like i did in the past because you cant even maintain consistency.
when you look at that lat spread how do you judge that he has superior conditioning, what about that is perfect? please explain or avoid the question again.
Oh boy where should I begin? lets start with pictures and how they're not the best comparisons we have because they're not an accurate means to start with . now I'm going to post quotes as to why pictures aren't an accurate means please follow and learn because this is how its done
Bob Chick GetBig 10 - 05 - 2007
THis is why pictures will never replace actually being there, in person and close to the stage....Bob Chick on this site commenting on how and why pictures don't replace being there
Mr Gethin GetBig Steptember 10 , 2007
Beat Ronnie fare and square on the european tour...Huh? Were you there? Did you know anyone who was there, or are you speculating via pics? I'm a contest photog and can tell you that pics dont always give a true depiction.Again from this site and he's a contest photographer again commenting on on how picture don't give a true depiction of the events
Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007
The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...Again ' pictures mean nothing '
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.follow these quotes if you can , Dorian is ' light years ahead of the way he looks in photos ' couple this fact with the above facts of pictures not being an accurate means to begin with
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.' 10 TIMES ' more impressive than pictures & video
This is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.Cormier echoing the previous statements
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).
McGough specifically mentioning Dorian doesn't translate as well in pictures
Now this is what is called converging evidence all different sources converging to a single point. however with these quotes we kill two birds with one stone. anyone who claims pictures are an accurate means to ascertain a persons level of conditioning and to compare to other competitors ( especially other competitors from other contests with different lighting ) is flat out wrong this point is proven with quotes from people who were actually there , so while bodybuilding is a visual sport its one based LIVE and in PERSON , hence why contests aren't judged by pictures
Now to address your claim I lack ' consistency ' first of all how would know even if that were true? you're a casual poster in this thread and my argument has remained consistent from the beginning I always maintained the same thing , Dorian would beat Ronnie because he meets the criteria better , he has better balance & proportion , better conditioning and density and he's a better technical poser and the best parts is I've supplemented my claims with quotes from other sources that verify my claims thats how its done
now to address this claim of yours
when you look at that lat spread how do you judge that he has superior conditioning, what about that is perfect? please explain or avoid the question again.I don't need to avoid your questions and I have explained my point many times you being the Johnny-come-lately to this thread you may have missed it , hell you missed the part where I said the quote from from an IFBB judge so your attention skills leave a lot to be desired
Now how do I judge what is superior conditioning from that pic ? I don't for a few reasons which I though you about above , pictures aren't an accurate means to ascertain such a thing so what do we do? we rely on people who were there and this is a quote specific to that particular contest the 1995 Mr Olympia on his conditioning
Flex magazine Dec 1995
Dorian Yates : Skin like tissue paper. In the crucial front double-biceps shot , the left bicep is short , but NOT fatally so. Traps look as if they have the capacity to render him deaf. Back , upper and lower , is sensational in EVERY respect : width , thickness and detail. Side triceps is a masterpiece that he's made into a Broadway production number. Thighs have more sweep than before . Calves? Yates wrote the book on calves . In muscle thickness , he's in a class of his own . Today's combination of size , proportion , shape and condition make this his peak form.
Now the first hint he may have great conditioning in this shot is the quote ' skin like tissue paper ' meaning he's as dry as one gets and the fact that he mentions that his combo including conditioning make it his peak form and then I can supplement that with this quote on Dorian's conditioning in general
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.To recap seeing I wasn't there ( and neither were you ) and pictures aren't accurate we have to rely on the authority of others and in this case as far as conditioning is concerned Dorian is bone dry & rock hard in that picture of the front latspread from the 1995 Mr Olympia .
Now from a conditioning standpoint I proved my point on Dorian's front latspread being textbook and I'll continue to do so from the standpoint of balance & proportion , now this we can ascertain much easier than conditioning via pictures and it seems you and I differ on what we see , you think his arms are to small I think they're just fine I think his arms are in proportion with the rest of his physique and especially in this pose they don't detract from the lats like Ronnie's do , I think you're basing Dorian's balance on Ronnie's physique and because Dorian's biceps/triceps don't look like Ronnie's his arms are to small I disagree. now in matters like this I can supplement my claim from a few sources which verifies my claim , such as and IFBB judge who praises his ' near perfect symmetry '
Bev Francis : Bodybuilder's phsyique you most admire ?
The man Dorian Yates , his combonation of size and shape makes for an awesome physique , unlike a lot of big guys he's not a load of massive parts just thrown together , His symmetry is almost perfect , Everything is in proportion , no weak bodyparts . Now mind you she is an I.F.B.B judge so she would know what she's looking for and again when I look at Dorian's front latspread from 1995 this is what I see , great balance & proportion from head to toe every muscle complementing each other to make one outstanding pose the difference between you and I , is I can back up my claim can you?
On paper Ronnie should have a better front laspread because he has better symmetry from the point of having a naturally small waist & hips than Dorian , smaller joints and better taper , but overall his front latspread has never been as great as Dorians , because he lacks that great balance & proportion that Dorian had and ontop of not even hitting the pose properly Ronnie always looks awkward in this pose
Now I'll supplement my claim on Dorian's great balance from other sources which converge to prove my point
Interview with David Robson
[ Q ] What were some of your better physical qualities as a bodybuilder, do you think?
Obviously I carried a lot of muscle mass and my trademark was to come into a show in super hard condition. I think my muscles had a certain quality and density from all the years of heavy training that a lot of guys didn't have.
One thing that I think people underrated me on - it was never really mentioned because of my sheer physical size and condition - was my balance and proportion. Not only from muscle group to muscle group, but from upper body to lower body. My skeletal structure and everything else was there and in good balance. Dorian Yates himself commenting on his great balance & proportion ( and notice the reference his great conditioning ) on Pro Bodybuilding Weekly when asked how he would fair against Coleman now , Dorian said specifically he had better balance and McGough has commented on Dorian's great balance & proportion . again converging evidence supporting my claim .
Now all your claims are addressed , and unlike you I've proven my point instead of just making blanket statements without any verification after the fact .
