Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3520858 times)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4175 on: June 13, 2006, 03:03:23 PM »
169 pages and ND and Co. have still not acknowledged all those posts that I keep mentioing.

After 169 pages, the following is obvious:

1. When ND and Co. can't answer to evidence, they ignore it.

2. They never really watched the videos posted in this thread.

3. They go on about things that don't matter (ie dorian's "dryness") because other things (ronnie's far superior detail and shape) make them meaningless.

4. Almost every "bad" pic shown of Ronnie is when he was 280+ pounds.

5. dorian looks bad standing next to Flea Labrada, even when in great shape!

6. After it is all said and done, I think we have made it pretty clear that with 5423342 pics and a few videos, that dorian really was overrated.

oh, and this was the funniest thing I have read in a while:

(directed at ND:)

Quote
Show me one f*cking contest where striations don't matter! Jesus Christ, how delusional are you?I don't know how they run things in Denmark or wherever the hell you are from, but in the states, striations are an exceptionally important element of bodybuilding criteria. They are the focal point of muscle detail!

;D

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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4176 on: June 13, 2006, 03:07:41 PM »
Add one more to the list: in defeat focus on Yates' calves, forearms and six-pack. ;)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4177 on: June 13, 2006, 03:11:15 PM »
oh yeah, i almost forgot:

8. ND would rather quote someone's opinion (lee priest) rather than show a pic or video to show something about dorian's physique. In doing so, he ignores other pros like Sergio, Flex, Dillett and Shawn Ray who hold a different opinion... He holds Priests opinion as the Gospel, and others as worthless.
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suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4178 on: June 13, 2006, 03:36:27 PM »
SUCKMYASSHOLE still doesn't grasp that the picture he keeps posting of Coleman looks great; certainly comparable to Yates re: cuts & shape, with far more size.

  Poop, I chose this comparison because it clearly illustrates the genetic inferiority of Coleman's triceps: his muscle belly is really short! :o :-\ ;D. Dorian simply RAPES Ronnie in the side-triceps shot. ;)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4179 on: June 13, 2006, 03:38:44 PM »
Watch the 2003 Olympia pre-show. Manion is interviewed on this subject backstage.

You said 1) Muscularity and 2) Musculo-Skeletal Balance.
Your definition of muscularity, based on this paragraph, is identical to musculo-skeletal balance.
I'm a newb for identifying a blantantly obvious inconsistency in your terminology?

Besides, sheer muscle size DOES matter in the IFBB. Mass monsters fill the auditoriums.
Athletes like Markus Ruhl & Gunther Schlierkamp would not be professionals, let alone top 5 finalists, if total muscle mass was not taken into account.

It is not the only factor, but you are in error by assuming that it has no bearing. Athletes are never penalized for "too much muscle", only for obvious muscle imbalance (ex: Ruhl's biceps/triceps), poor symmetry (ex: Atwood), and/or poor conditioning (ex: Ruhl).

In 2003, Coleman's symmetry was nearly perfect, his only muscle imbalance was the quadriceps/calves size differential, and his conditioning was evidently good enough to showcase incredible vascularity, stacked striations, and amazing muscle density (particularly chest and biceps, composed of thick heavy layers of proportioned striated muscle).

Once again, there is zero evidence that Yates was harder, as evidenced by:
1) Your/ND's refusal to address Hulkster's multiple posts on the subject.
2) No visual evidence provided through relevant pictures or videos.

Dorian WAS dry. Granted. However, he did not match Coleman's level of muscle detail.
The entire point of coming in dry is to showcase vascularity, striations, and muscle density.
Dorian lacks vascularity in important regions and he has exceedingly few striations.

Regardless, muscle size and muscle condition are two separate facets. A lack of muscle condition will not result in a loss of points for sheer muscle size, or else Markus Ruhl would have never made the Olympia posedown. Likewise, Dexter's condition cannot compensate for the larger athlete's size (like Coleman and Cutler).

Nasser did not have Ronnie Coleman's back. Dorian himself has admitted than Nasser had him beat from the front. From behind, Coleman in 2003 exhibited superior lat width/thickness, superior trap thickness (especially with arms raised i.e. front double bicep), as well as upper back density (3Dimensional). Dorian had him in the lower back no doubt, but that would not be enough to compensate for Ronnie's superior hamstrings, glutes, AND biceps from behind. Simply wouldn't. Dorian's lower back conditioning was better, but Ronnie's hamstrings and glutes have always been far better conditioned.

Ronnie was never 285+ lbs and he was not working with Chad Nichols then either.
You ignore symmetry. Ronnie has better symmetry, even ND's quote he uses AGAINST us has Lee Priest agreeing that Ronnie had better symmetry. You overlook muscle detail too. You overlook Ronnie's superior hardness and conditioning in the quadriceps, hamstrings, glutes, biceps, deltoids and chest.

The arguments in favor of Dorian are few:
- Calves, forearms, lower back thickness, overall dryness, lower back conditioning. Thats it!

I wrote like 10 paragraphs outlining precisely why Ronnie has superior muscle size, superior symmetry, superior balance, superior detail, and superior separation. Please address some of the specific points I made and why you disagree. Its hard to respond to a general statement like "lolz ronnie would lose in everything." Be specific like I was earlier.

Now you are just being foolish. He beat Cutler and Jackson with straight firsts. Sorry.
The mandatories are only 50% of the show, and Ronnie is notorious for dominanting the last 2 rounds (as evidenced by his come-from-behind victory over Jay Cutler in 2001).

Regardless, its a moot point, because Dorian would not win the mandatories.
He is hopelessly outclassed in every pose. Lets argue a few specifics please. I'll start:

Ab & Thigh:
- Quadriceps (Coleman ... hands down: size, striations, vascularity, superior sweep, separation)
- V-Taper (Coleman ... wider delts, wider lats, smaller waist)
- X-Frame (Coleman ... Refer to V-taper and Quad Sweep)
- Calves (Yates ... very very minor portion of the Ab&Thigh assessment)
- Arms (Coleman ... minor portion of assessment as well)
- Obliques (Coleman ...  Yates are too developed)
- Rectus Abdominis (Draw ... both have good development, symmetry, and separation)
- Intercostals/Serratus (Yates ... slight edge due to conditioning)

Besides, Yates could never, NEVER, in a million years, compensate for the superior of Coleman's quadriceps. That aspect alone would cause Yates to lose the pose.

No, I am not interested. I'm sure Hulkster will indulge you on this however.

Don't even put Kovacs in the same sentence as Coleman.
Kovacs' arms and legs are grossly underdeveloped relative to his trunk, he had no lower body detail whatsoever (worse than Yates even  ;D), his waist and abdomen were enormous, he had weird discolored indentations on the side of his ribcage, etc etc. Very poor comparison.
You are really grasping for straws with this one suckmymuscle.

None of these large guys you are comparing Coleman with would have his balance, symmetry, or complete development. Coleman DOES have details (striations, vascularity), DOES have balance (the only imbalance, like I said, is quadriceps/calves differential).

You still haven't proven that Ronnie isn't hard, or for that matter, not as hard as Yates.
The etchiness argument is a joke since Yates had minimal underlying detail.

It is clear as day that you think 2003 Ronnie Coleman was garbage. That's fine.
Fact is ... based on standard IFBB protocol ... he was good enough to win the show with straight 1st's. If put up against peak Dorian, an athlete who's prime was 13 years ago, it would be no contest. This sport has changed. The athletes are larger AND harder.

Yates does not have enough muscle, symmetry, or detail to defeat Coleman. Case closed.





  I stopped reading on the part where you say, that the 280+ lbs Ronnie, has better symmetry than Dorian. That is just too stupid and outrageous to stomach. Good bye.

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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4180 on: June 13, 2006, 03:41:20 PM »
Quote
I chose this comparison because it clearly illustrates the genetic inferiority of Coleman's triceps: his muscle belly is really short!

NO ONE ELSE HAS NOTICED THIS, SHERLOCK. THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A BIG HINT TO YOU THAT YOU'RE IN LEFT FIELD-AGAIN! ::)

Yates has a slight edge in lateral & medial head definition, but they're close. Couple that with Coleman's HUGE triceps size advantage and it's game over on tris AND bis.

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4181 on: June 13, 2006, 03:42:01 PM »
SMA: but your comparisons illistrate what the Colemaniacs have been saying all along:



ronnie has much better aesthetics and much better lines. Dorian's physique is just plain ugly.. sorry, but tis true..

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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4182 on: June 13, 2006, 03:45:56 PM »

(uggggglllllyyyy)
how anyone can argue that this...

is better than this:


is beyond all comprehension..
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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4183 on: June 13, 2006, 03:49:23 PM »
Not a big difference in side-tri definition, but a HUGE difference in size; Yates has nothing on any shot other than side-tri:

toty21

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4184 on: June 13, 2006, 03:51:58 PM »
It is so funny ho this thread is called "Calling for a Truce"...and it became one of the biggest wars ever seen on getbig.com  ;D

Praetor Fenix

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4185 on: June 13, 2006, 04:27:39 PM »
  I stopped reading on the part where you say, that the 280+ lbs Ronnie, has better symmetry than Dorian. That is just too stupid and outrageous to stomach. Good bye.

Size has no bearing on symmetry. Symmetry has 2 elements:

1) Left To Right: How well does the left match the right?
The sheer amount of muscle isn't relevant. The ONLY matter of importance is that the quantity of muscle on the left is perfectly mirrored on the right.

2) Top To Bottom: A physique's balance and flow.
Does the lower body overpower the upper body?
Does the athlete have an elegant V-taper (small waist, wide lats, wide delts)?
Does the athlete have an X-frame (V-taper w/ good quad sweep)?
Lastly, how do the individual muscles look relative to the physique as a whole.

As I said, the only imbalance is the quadriceps/calves size differential.
Every muscle, no doubt alarmingly huge on its own, is well proportioned next to the adjacent.
As I said, aside from quads/calves, Coleman has little symmetrical weakness.

Don't confuse symmetry for aesthetics. You may not consider Ronnie aesthetic, but there is no way to really factor this into standard IFBB protocol since it is so subjective. Some fans love sickening vascularity (example: Dillet), whereas others prefer Arnold's "less imposing" vessels.
You mistakenly correlate symmetry with smaller muscle size, when in fact they are unrelated.

In summary, aesthetics are entirely a value judgment. There is no provision for it in the judging.
Professional physique assessment, although subjective too, does have fairly rigid standards.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4186 on: June 13, 2006, 04:39:02 PM »
oh yeah, i almost forgot:

8. ND would rather quote someone's opinion (lee priest) rather than show a pic or video to show something about dorian's physique. In doing so, he ignores other pros like Sergio, Flex, Dillett and Shawn Ray who hold a different opinion... He holds Priests opinion as the Gospel, and others as worthless.


Watch the 1993/95 Mr Olympia to see Dorian Yates at his peak , obviously its NOT floating around on YouTube they only show breif clips from 93/95 and I have watched the videos you posted in fact I've seen clips of Ron if not all of his Mr Olympia contests I have them on P2P but You tube only allows you to post 10 minutes , and even if you seen the videos it wont make a difference you're convinced of your opinion and wont be changing it anytime soon




I've quoted , Preist , Flex , Dillett , Ronnie , Samir , Ernie Taylor  and more and I have more quotes but obviously to you , your opinion is better than theirs even though they were there  ::) here are some more quotes NOT that they change anyones opinions

here is a quote from Mike Christian from Muscular Development Febuary 1994
Quote
I think Dorian meet all the IFBB terms. He had mass , he was symmetrical and he had lots of definition. I thought he won. Can he be beaten? That depends on how you look at it. I say yes. But under the IFBB terms of juging -no. Number one is mass, He has that. Number two is symmetry. He is symmetricalUnder the IFBB rules , he'll keep winning and winning."

Here is one from Mike Matarazzo Oct 2003
Quote
DESCRIBE DORIAN YATES: The ultimate warrior. A straight-up no-bulls-t bodybuilder. He backed up everything with his physique. He silenced his critics with action. He bowed out at the end of his career with grace and style. He may go down in history as the greatest bodybuilder of all time.


From Lou Ferrigno
Quote
I can honestly tell you, the way Dorian looked tonight, I don't think Haney could beat him. He's unbeatable.

So obvious just like the Pro we have different opinions again NO ONE is RIGHT or WRONG only a panel of judges would be able to decide who was the better , so back to square one  ;)

  

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4187 on: June 13, 2006, 04:48:14 PM »


4. Almost every "bad" pic shown of Ronnie is when he was 280+ pounds.


6. After it is all said and done, I think we have made it pretty clear that with 5423342 pics and a few videos, that dorian really was overrated.

oh, and this was the funniest thing I have read in a while:

(directed at ND:)
 ;D





4) I've posted pics from the 2001 Mr Olympia where Coleman was 264lbs and looked bad , and in the 240s from the 2002 S.O.S and 2002 Olympia where he was 260s so that statement is NOT true

6) bodybuilding history is correct and Hulkster is wrong , you really have no basis to claim he was overrated when he never finished below 2nd in a Pro contest and won 15 out 17 in the process defeating some the the sports best atheltes who were a higher quality than almost anytime in the sport , for you to claim he is overated after seeing some magazine scans and compressed video shows your ignorance whever you type that it brings me back to what Royalty said about you , you're an internet bodybuilding fan and thats it , and he's seen both in person

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4188 on: June 13, 2006, 05:21:20 PM »
Quote
bodybuilding history is correct and Hulkster is wrong , you really have no basis to claim he was overrated when he never finished below 2nd in a Pro contest and won 15 out 17 in the process defeating some the the sports best atheltes
Immediately discredits himself once again..

-Forever with the data-nerd focus on numbers. We ALREADY know the dubious results in which Yates actually looks like a solid 3rd or 4th place!  ::)
-Refers to BB as a "sport", immediately throwing the rest into question.
-Athletes is also debatable in BB. Some are, some aren't.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4189 on: June 13, 2006, 05:44:14 PM »
Immediately discredits himself once again..

-Forever with the data-nerd focus on numbers. We ALREADY know the dubious results in which Yates actually looks like a solid 3rd or 4th place!  ::)
-Refers to BB as a "sport", immediately throwing the rest into question.
-Athletes is also debatable in BB. Some are, some aren't.

Yes you're right pumpster the internet judge deemed Dorian deserved no better than 3rd or 4th and the Weiders ochestrated a master plan lets get the pasty-white-workingclass-British-marketing-juggernaut to sell Weider products  ::) lets entertain your stupidity that the Weiders hand picked marketable athetles soley to sell their products why on God's green earth would the choose Yates? when they could have had Lee Labrada , handsome , clean cut , articulate , a marketable physique to the general public , a faimly man with an engineering degree for christs sake !! Lee Labrada is exactly what the sport needs a man with ingetrity and class he would appeal to a broad spectum of fans who will most certainly never have the genetics of desire to desire to be 260lbs , your conspircy theory falls flat on its face when you take a hard look at it .

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4190 on: June 13, 2006, 05:49:47 PM »
To quote ND:

"blah, blah, blah"

My points all stand despite desperate efforts to obfuscate.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4191 on: June 13, 2006, 06:11:27 PM »
To quote ND:

"blah, blah, blah"

My points all stand despite desperate efforts to obfuscate.

You know I honesty try to take your point with some legitmacy and you always prove why I'm sick of this whole thread lol you're helpless you really are .

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4192 on: June 14, 2006, 12:00:12 AM »
Quote
4) I've posted pics from the 2001 Mr Olympia where Coleman was 264lbs and looked bad , and in the 240s from the 2002 S.O.S and 2002 Olympia where he was 260s so that statement is NOT true

but there are very few photos of "peak" ronnie looking bad. Just because Ronnie weighed the same in 2002 as he did in 1998 does not mean that he was in good shape in 2002.

But it is true that there are shots of Dorian in great shape at the 1992 Olympia and he gets owned by Flea Labrada, among others..

Thats what happens when you are overrated... 8)
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4193 on: June 14, 2006, 01:29:31 AM »
but there are very few photos of "peak" ronnie looking bad. Just because Ronnie weighed the same in 2002 as he did in 1998 does not mean that he was in good shape in 2002.

But it is true that there are shots of Dorian in great shape at the 1992 Olympia and he gets owned by Flea Labrada, among others..

Thats what happens when you are overrated... 8)

This is where you can't admit you're wrong , you made the claim that all the bad pics of Ronnie are at 280+ thats not true , I've posted pictures of him looking bad at weights ranging from 240lbs - 265lbs

And there are shots of Labrada that you think he is owning Yates but in the end its the other way around and to be honest with you the sport would have been better off if Labrada won the Olympia but thats not how it turned out .


Al-Gebra

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4194 on: June 14, 2006, 01:32:49 AM »
occasionally visiting this thread has given me great insight on the Middle East "peace" talks. i'd like to thank all of you.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4195 on: June 14, 2006, 01:58:49 AM »
RAPE!

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4196 on: June 14, 2006, 02:04:07 AM »
Not a big difference in side-tri definition, but a HUGE difference in size; Yates has nothing on any shot other than side-tri:



Great job of posting pics of Dorian where he looked less than stellar.

Dorians triceps in 93 were fcuking great. No way around it.

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pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4197 on: June 14, 2006, 06:13:23 AM »
Quote
Great job of posting pics of Dorian where he looked less than stellar.

Dorians triceps in 93 were fcuking great. No way around it.

Easy to say; I provided pics and you haven't which renders your claim baseless. At this point you're just another Yates nut-hugger providing more empty rhetoric.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4198 on: June 14, 2006, 06:36:29 AM »
PUMPSTER DOESNT BELIEVE IT! OH SHIT ! GOD HELP US!


Pumpster do you think that you are valuable enough as a human being to warrant some need on our part to make you "believe it".  No one here gives a shit about you especially ND or me.  Gosh talk about narcissisitic.    You remind me of ZachG.  So go and have a mental breakdown for the love of god.

We work with being, but non-being is what we use.

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #4199 on: June 14, 2006, 06:41:26 AM »
I'm seeing some pronounced cognitive difficulties with those who think Yates is anything other than over-rated.

You really made yourself look stupid with that comment. I'm speaking in general, not for myself, and you couldn't figure that out. Without proof, his statement is meaningless-just more empty rhetoric without any basis in fact that ND & SUCKMYASSHOLE have established they're good at providing.

Because of your limited intelligence you weren't able to understand that. hahahahhahahahah