Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[beefcakeblake]

Quote from: beefcakeblake on March 15, 2010, 08:06:38 PM

both the pics you posted look weird and plus thats the worst Dorian pick ive ever seen.



its not dorian at his best but at least it's better than your pic

Shawn>Dorian in that pose.

how does Shawn win in that pose? cut abdominals, bigger quads, thats all he has on dorian. Dorian has proportion, mass, balance. Plus shawn looks like a small marsh mellow standing beside a granite like Dorian.

[JP_RC]

Ronnies balance and proportion is terrible.  Quads dwarf calves, Upper arms dwarf forearms. Short torso, fucked up midsection. Id say bloated gut, but really he held it in check in his poses as well as Dorian so thats a non issue.

Ronnie's balance and proportion terrible? I'm no expert, but from what I see he had better balance and proportion than Yates.
Quads dwarf calves? How about Dorian's calves too big for his quads. Both of them had a short torso/long legs type of structure.

Your scoring Ronnie exactly how Hulkster does,... Looking at personal opinions and not what a bb show is judged by. Muscular Bulk - Dorian is heavier than Ronnie at their respective bests, assuming your not claiming 2003 is Ronnies best. He IMO carries slightly more mass.

I thought a bodybuilding show was judged more by visual impact of a physique, not on who is the heaviest.
In this case why didn't competitors heavier than Dorian beat him in the past? Dillet, Nasser?

Balance and Proportion - Dorian is much more complete, everything is balanced. Quads to Calves, Upper arms to forearms, Upper body to lower body.

I can't believe you're calling Dorian a balanced bodybuilder   What about the balance of each bodypart to the next?

Taper is not a juding criteria. Its a non issue. If the best taper won, Orville Burke would be Mr. Olympia.
Just because you look at Ronnie and he is more pleasing to your eye doesnt make him the better  BB by the judging standard. BTW you cannot look at individual bodyparts because then simply the person with the better bunch of bodyparts wins.

Taper alone doesn't win a contest, but it should be part of the criteria of a complete physique.  Its true, judging criteria doesn't take things like taper or aesthetics into consideration anymore and has not done so since some point in the 90's. Thiss is why I always question is the judging criteria correct? Its seems kind of flawed.
By the way, whenever I think about a collection of big bodyparts, Dorian is one of the first that come to mind.

Conditioning - Ronnie never displeyed the kind of conditioning Dorian carried in 95. I dont think he did in 93. Dorian back in 93 and 95, looked like a fucking road map carved out of granite. Ronnie had that marshmellowy looking subqutaneous water Musculature in 99. In 98 he was much drier and tighter, but lacked the size to knock Dorian off.

I think Ronnie's conditioning in 98-99 was just as good as Dorian's. Dorian looked like a road map from the back, but what about the front? He had little detail and striations, how is the density going to cover up those flaws?

IMO Dorian simply has less flaws than Ronnie. He is the more complete package at his best, with at worst equal conditioning. Dorians only weak point was truely his biceps. Thats it.

Dorian has less flaws than Ronnie? Sorry, but its actually the other way around. Ronnie, in my eyes, had the most complete package of the two.
Dorian's flaws were not only his biceps, how about his weak quads and chest? How about a lack of detail and striations from the front?

[beefcakeblake]

Dorian has less flaws than Ronnie? Sorry, but its actually the other way around. Ronnie, in my eyes, had the most complete package of the two.
Dorian's flaws were not only his biceps, how about his weak quads and chest? How about a lack of detail and striations from the front?

weak quads: yes they were mis shapen but not weak

chest: never heard that one before, I always thought it was one of his strong points from the front.

detail and striations from the front: maybe in '94, but other than that he had so much going on for him it didn't even matter

[JP_RC]

how does Shawn win in that pose? cut abdominals, bigger quads, thats all he has on dorian. Dorian has proportion, mass, balance. Plus shawn looks like a small marsh mellow standing beside a granite like Dorian.

Shawn wins this pose simply because he looks better. Bigger and more detailed quads, better midsection, better arms and shoulders, better taper, much better aesthetics and symmetry.

I think I'm not getting this whole balance and proportion thing you guys say Dorian is so great at. Lower legs just as wide as his upper legs, Chest too narrow compared to his super wide back, a torn bicep, etc. Is that good balance and proportion?
Dorian has mass over Shawn, but the visual difference is not very apparent despite how heavier he was. I think bb is more visual than a numbers game.

Shanw looks like a small marshmellow you say? Its funny since his conditioning at this show was just as good as Dorian's. Dorian had density over Shawn, but like I always say: How good can density be when you lack detail and striations?
From this picture alone, I would say Dorian looks like a big bloated "marshmellow" mess.

[Royal Lion]

After watching this, I'm not sure anyone can argue that Dorian dominated and would likely beat Coleman (we'll never know for sure).
I don't see any real weaknesses here other than the torn bicep...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5049884837576382067#

[Shockwave]

Obviously there is no way you can logically argue if you think Ronnies calves are balalnced to his legs.
Detail and striations are not judged, again.
Size doesnt win. Size, conditioning, and lack of flaws wins.
Again, Calves to small for quads (Universally acknowledged), Forearms to small for upper arms, and a fucked up abdominal structure.
Dorian simply had equivalent to, or slightly more mass, with almost perfect balance between bodyparts. His weakness was simply biceps.
Its fine if you dont agree with the judging criteria. But you have exactly the same flawed arguments as Hulkster.

Trying to argue that Ronnie's calves are in balance with his quads is ludricrous, and that is what shows your obviously biased and incapable of looking at things logically.

[JP_RC]

weak quads: yes they were mis shapen but not weak

chest: never heard that one before, I always thought it was one of his strong points from the front.

detail and striations from the front: maybe in '94, but other than that he had so much going on for him it didn't even matter

Ok, weak quads compared to his competiton. His quads, by himself, are not that weak.

I always saw Dorian's chest as weak, maybe you don't.

Details and striations didn't matter? Well, they do from what I see as a complete physique.

[JP_RC]

Obviously there is no way you can logically argue if you think Ronnies calves are balalnced to his legs.
Detail and striations are not judged, again.
Size doesnt win. Size, conditioning, and lack of flaws wins.
Again, Calves to small for quads (Universally acknowledged), Forearms to small for upper arms, and a fucked up abdominal structure.
Dorian simply had equivalent to, or slightly more mass, with almost perfect balance between bodyparts. His weakness was simply biceps.
Its fine if you dont agree with the judging criteria. But you have exactly the same flawed arguments as Hulkster.

Trying to argue that Ronnie's calves are in balance with his quads is ludricrous, and that is what shows your obviously biased and incapable of looking at things logically.

I don't think Ronnie's calves are balanced to his upper legs, not at all. Sorry if it came off that way, I guess I was misunderstood.
What I said was: Just as Ronnie's weak calves are a flaw to his overall legs, so are Dorian's weak quads to his overall leg development.
Ronnie's forearms were not weak, they matched up pretty good to his upper arms. His abdominal structure was messed up though, I'll give you that.

Dorian did not have perfect balance between bodyparts. In my eyes, his quads did not match the rest of his legs, his biceps were weak and his chest did not match up to his width.

[beefcakeblake]

I don't think Ronnie's calves are balanced to his upper legs, not at all. Sorry if it came off that way, I guess I was misunderstood.
What I said was: Just as Ronnie's weak calves are a flaw to his overall legs, so are Dorian's weak quads to his overall leg development.
Ronnie's forearms were not weak, they matched up pretty good to his upper arms. His abdominal structure was messed up though, I'll give you that.

Dorian did not have perfect balance between bodyparts. In my eyes, his quads did not match the rest of his legs, his biceps were weak and his chest did not match up to his width.

his quads did not match the rest of his legs: i can see where your going with that.


chest did not match up to his width:  lol i have no idea where your getting this chest thing from i just don't see it.

[Shockwave]

I don't think Ronnie's calves are balanced to his upper legs, not at all. Sorry if it came off that way, I guess I was misunderstood.
What I said was: Just as Ronnie's weak calves are a flaw to his overall legs, so are Dorian's weak quads to his overall leg development.
Ronnie's forearms were not weak, they matched up pretty good to his upper arms. His abdominal structure was messed up though, I'll give you that.

Dorian did not have perfect balance between bodyparts. In my eyes, his quads did not match the rest of his legs, his biceps were weak and his chest did not match up to his width.

Dorian had huge quads, they just had a funky shape. Especially in the ab/thigh, his quads were awesome.

[beefcakeblake]

ok after looking at bunch of dorian pics i can kinda see where your coming from with the chest thing, but I don't think its that bad.  

this is the only pic where it really took notice for me.

[Valane]

how does Shawn win in that pose? cut abdominals, bigger quads, thats all he has on dorian. Dorian has proportion, mass, balance. Plus shawn looks like a small marsh mellow standing beside a granite like Dorian.

Size and cuts in legs, better taper, tiny waist, shredded midsection, better balance, Better arms, better chest, better proportion, miles better aesthetics.

Dorian as normal looks a bloated dissproportinate mess. It's funny that you cite hardness, because Dorian looks like michelin man, zero striations or cuts.

[Shockwave]

Size and cuts in legs, better taper, tiny waist, shredded midsection, better balance, Better arms, better chest, better proportion, miles better aesthetics.

Dorian as normal looks a bloated dissproportinate mess. It's funny that you cite hardness, because Dorian looks like michelin man, zero striations or cuts.

Shawns back has no width, and he is simply to small to compete with Dorian.
Combination of Mass, Conditioning and Balance and proportion is what wins contests.

[beefcakeblake]

Size and cuts in legs, better taper, tiny waist, shredded midsection, better balance, Better arms, better chest, better proportion, miles better aesthetics.

Dorian as normal looks a bloated dissproportinate mess. It's funny that you cite hardness, because Dorian looks like michelin man, zero striations or cuts.

it just looks like your naming off random things which half of them not even valid

better balance? i see Shawns legs dwarfing upper body in that pic

better arms?   they look the same in the pic i posted

better chest?   dorians looks better IMO

better proportion?   defs don't see that

but ill give you the rest of em

[Shockwave]

it just looks like your naming off random things which half of them not even valid

better balance? i see Shawns legs dwarfing upper body in that pic

better arms?   they look the same in the pic i posted

better chest?   dorians looks better IMO

better proportion?   defs don't see that

but ill give you the rest of em

And thats 94, notoriously one of Dorians worst years.  
Yeah Shawns legs were way to big for his upper body. Thats why he decided to stop training to downsize them! Lol. Everybody gets so used to these pros having these rediculously out of proportioned legs now that they don't know what real proportion looks like. Fuck calves arent even an important bodypart nowadays.

[JP_RC]

Dorian had huge quads, they just had a funky shape. Especially in the ab/thigh, his quads were awesome.

And you said I'm biased?
So all that matters is huge quads? What about shape, detail, separation, etc?
In the ab/thigh his quads looked awesome when he was standing alone, but once I started comparing him to the rest of his competition not so much.

[beefcakeblake]

And thats 94, notoriously one of Dorians worst years.  
Yeah Shawns legs were way to big for his upper body. Thats why he decided to stop training to downsize them! Lol. Everybody gets so used to these pros having these rediculously out of proportioned legs now that they don't know what real proportion looks like. Fuck calves arent even an important bodypart nowadays.

Fuck calves arent even an important bodypart nowadays: so true it started with Ronnie winning the Olympia, now no one has good development in the calves heck dexter won a olympia with out them.

once ronnie started winning, bodybuilding started to go down a slippery slope

[JP_RC]

ok after looking at bunch of dorian pics i can kinda see where your coming from with the chest thing, but I don't think its that bad.  

this is the only pic where it really took notice for me.

Yes, this picture is one example.
Another example is: look at a front relaxed pose of Dorian and compare it to a front relaxed pose of Ronnie or even Shawn Ray, you'll see the difference in the chest development. Dorian's chest chest looks a bit narrow and flat in proportion to his massively wide back.
Ronnie's doesn't.

[JP_RC]

once ronnie started winning, bodybuilding started to go down a slippery slope

Once Dorian Yates won in 94, bb went down a slippery slope. How can someone win with a torn biceps?

[JP_RC]

it just looks like your naming off random things which half of them not even valid

better balance? i see Shawns legs dwarfing upper body in that pic

better arms?   they look the same in the pic i posted

better chest?   dorians looks better IMO

better proportion?   defs don't see that

but ill give you the rest of em

Do you actually see Shawn's legs dwarfing his upperbody? I actually see Dorian's legs looking a bit too narrow for his upperbody. I guess this is a difference of what a complete physique looks like to everybody.
Shawn's arms look a bit bigger than Dorian's, specially Dorian's torn bicep arm.
In my opinion Shawn has a better chest.
Finally, I ask again: is having a torn bicep, weak quads and chest a sing of good proportions?

[beefcakeblake]

Finally, I ask again: is having a torn bicep, weak quads and chest a sing of good proportions?

well first off IMO Shawns stubby short legs don't go with his  long torso and narrow shoulders.

Once Dorian Yates won in 94, bb went down a slippery slope. How can someone win with a torn biceps?

cause the rest of him was just that good, lol same could be said with 2004, 2005 ronnie with screwed up left lat.

you could only really notice the torn biceps in the front double biceps any way.

[beefcakeblake]

even in the front double biceps Dorian is annihilating everybody with the exception of Shawn

[beefcakeblake]

sic pic of greatest olympia of all time

[Valane]

well first off IMO Shawns stubby short legs don't go with his  long torso and narrow shoulders.

cause the rest of him was just that good, lol same could be said with 2004, 2005 ronnie with screwed up left lat.

you could only really notice the torn biceps in the front double biceps any way.

Cormier is destroying Dorian.

[beefcakeblake]

Cormier is destroying Dorian.

lmao yeah right cormier, with his crazy long core, fluffy whip muscles, plus he looks like he's 170 lbs compared to dorian in that pic