Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Royal Lion]

Ronnie's physique looks like polish marble to me while Dorian's looks like dough mashed together with a sledgehammer.

Lol, yeah....like dough.  And there goes your credibility.

[NeoSeminole]

My understanding is that graininess has to do with water retention.  The "drier" a bodybuilder is, the less water he is holding.  Muscle shape and separation is a different criteria.  It is genetic.  For example, Ronnie could be holding more water than Dorian and have more separation through his arms/delts and yet still not be as conditioned.  This is because genetically, he has more distinct muscle separation in his arms delt tie-in.

you're absolutely right about muscle definition coming down to genetics. However, you're missing the forest for the trees. Genetics determine separation and striations via fat distribution, water levels, and skin thickness (this is anatomy 101). For example, a person with defined arms will have fat redistributed to other parts of the body. You cannot have defined arms + defined shoulders + defined chest + defined legs... etc without simultaneously carrying less overall body fat or water. Remember, the fat and water has to go somewhere! Genetics is the reason why Ronnie has defined arms and Dorian had a defined back even in the off-season. Hope this clears up some confusion.

[Royal Lion]

So if Dorian was even more conditioned he would have better separation in his arms/delts?  I don't think so.  I think he doesn't have the genetic shape and tie-ins that Ronnie does there, so it isn't a matter of conditioning, but more a matter of genetic muslce shape.  I surely don't think Dorian ever had a problem losing bodyfat.

[NeoSeminole]

So if Dorian was even more conditioned he would have better separation in his arms/delts?  I don't think so.  I think he doesn't have the genetic shape and tie-ins that Ronnie does there, so it isn't a matter of conditioning, but more a matter of genetic muslce shape.  I just don't think Dorian ever had a problem losing bodyfat.

broscience =/= science

broscience: anecdotal evidence presented as fact by unqualified, yet confident individuals in the body building community. Rampant within lifting forums and message boards, the information is usually based on hearsay with little to no scientific evidence to support the claims made by the individual.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broscience

[Hulkster]

Hulkster, compare your screencaps to the video and you can see they are clearly sharpened.  And besides your little illustration with Dorian's MM means nothing as neither one is sharpened.

lol so according to you morons, ForcedReps sharpened his Ronnie shots but left his dorian shots untouched? those are both his.

LOL this just keeps getting better and better..

 

[Hulkster]

I love it when you idiots try and revive the old '99 ronnie shots are touched up/faked' argument

each time you do, you find new ways to look even more stupid. just like above.

[Royal Lion]

broscience =/= science

broscience: anecdotal evidence presented as fact by unqualified, yet confident individuals in the body building community. Rampant within lifting forums and message boards, the information is usually based on hearsay with little to no scientific evidence to support the claims made by the individual.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broscience

Yes, my claiming that Dorian had outstanding conditioning is based only on "broscience."   

[NeoSeminole]

Yes, my claiming that Dorian had outstanding conditioning is based only on "broscience."

when your sole claim and counter-argument to a scientific explanation is hearsay, then yes... you're using broscience.

[Royal Lion]

I love it when you idiots try and revive the old '99 ronnie shots are touched up/faked' argument

each time you do, you find new ways to look even more stupid. just like above.

I don't care what ForcedReps did.  Simply look at the vids on YouTube and compare them to the screencaps you regularly post.  You are in blind denial if you can't see the difference.

[Royal Lion]

when your sole claim and counter-argument to a scientific explanation is hearsay, then yes... you're using broscience.

Do you even know what hearsay is?  It is a legal term defined by 3 parts/elements: (1) an out of court statement; (2)the declarant of which intended to assert a fact; and, (3) the assertion of that fact is offered at trial or hearing to prove the truth of the fact.  

So how exactly is my counter-argument to a scientific explanation hearsay?  

And, in all seriousness, are you claiming that Dorian wasn't grainy because of excess bodyfat?  That if he was only leaner he would have better arm/delt separation?  That if Dorian was leaner and grainier he would have the exact same tie-ins and muscle shape as Ronnie?

[NeoSeminole]

Do you even know what hearsay is?  It is a legal term defined by 3 parts/elements: (1) an out of court statement; (2)the declarant of which intended to assert a fact; and, (3) the assertion of that fact is offered at trial or hearing to prove the truth of the fact.

that's one definition of several. It can also mean "unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge."

So how exactly is my counter-argument to a scientific explanation hearsay?

b/c you're not using factual information confirmed by you but, instead, the unofficial opinion of others to counter scientific evidence.

And, in all seriousness, are you claiming that Dorian wasn't grainy because of excess bodyfat?  That if he was only leaner he would have better arm/delt separation?  That if Dorian was leaner and grainier he would have the exact same tie-ins and muscle shape as Ronnie?

I can't comment on Dorian being "grainy" b/c I'm still waiting for you to explain what it means. Regarding your other questions, my answer is "maybe."

[beefcakeblake]

The only one who should be embarrassed is you...

For instance, pause the video of Ronnie's 99 routine at 3:45 and compare the color to the pic you frequently post below  

ahahahahahaahh hulkster must feel like an idiot, it doesn't even look like the same person.

[Shockwave]

ahahahahahaahh hulkster must feel like an idiot, it doesn't even look like the same person.

Incorrect. Remember Forcedreps said his screencap was legit. Thats enough for Hulkster. 

[Royal Lion]

that's one definition of several. It can also mean "unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge."

b/c you're not using factual information confirmed by you but, instead, the unofficial opinion of others to counter scientific evidence.

I can't comment on Dorian being "grainy" b/c I'm still waiting for you to explain what it means. Regarding your other questions, my answer is "maybe."

What scientific evidence?  The entire Dorian/Ronnie debate is based on each our subjective opinions...there is no scientific evidence as to who has a better physique.   My opinion is based on my own perceptions and preferences for a bodybuilding physique.  It has nothing to do with the opinion of others -- "official" or "unofficial."  It is simply my opinion that Dorian at his best would beat Ronnie at his best.  If this is somehow based on hearsay as you claim, how is your opinion that Ronnie > Dorian not based on hearsay?  Neither is hearsay as they are our own entitled opinions.

What is your definition of graininess?  To me it is the combination of muscular development, low bodyfat, and water elimination.  A bodybuilder who has extreme levels of each of these simultaneously is grainy, as both Ronnie and Dorian were.  The more conditioned a bodybuilder is, the more grainy he is.  Condition and graininess are essentially analogous as the greater the condition, the greater the graininesss.

I understand your position that one must be lean to see muscle definition.  However, you lose me when (and if?) you claim that because Ronnie has better arm/delt separation he is grainier or leaner than Dorian.  I can't imagine Dorian getting any leaner than he was at his peak.  Yet he still admittedly didn't have Ronnie's delt/arm tie-ins (Ronnie's are especially impressive in the 01 ASC shot).  I see this as being a result of genetic muscular structure rather than conditioning.  Just my 2 cents.  

[beefcakeblake]

this has already been done to death. and the nuthuggers lose every time.

screenshots from a dvd are going to look different than magazine photographer scans with a camera flash.

the videos do not lie.

just because ronnie is that much better does not mean that the screenshots are fake.

oh, and just so you know, the same applies to screenshots of dorian vs magazine scans, the same applies to everyone.

its just different media.

but ironically, the nuthuggers don't claim the dorian shots are faked, even though they look just as different..

typical hypocrisy, knowing that they are arguing a losing battle..

shut up fan boy, Dorian in your pic looks the same to me, just different lighting.

Ronnie literally looks different in your pics, like almost not the same person, let alone same contest. lol

 

[Hulkster]

LOL the nuthuggers are back to posting the old blurry 99 youtube video (which is so bad it looks like someone filmed their tv -its so bad ronnie looks orange for fuck sakes.. ) to try and save their argument after I embarassed them yet again..

[Hulkster]

Incorrect. Remember Forcedreps said his screencap was legit. Thats enough for Hulkster.  

not only did he say it, he proved it. although the links probably don't work anymore as that post is a few years old.

but of course, the nuthuggers ignored the proof so that dorian still had a chance in their delusional minds..

how sad.

[Shockwave]

not only did he say it, he proved it. although the links probably don't work anymore as that post is a few years old.

but of course, the nuthuggers ignored the proof so that dorian still had a chance in their delusional minds..

how sad.

How do you figure when his video and your pics don't match up to anyone elses?

[Shockwave]

One of his worse years.. and he still looks rediculous.

[Shockwave]

Muscle looks painted on. Rediculous.

[Hulkster]

How do you figure when his video and your pics don't match up to anyone elses?

what you don't understand is that every person that has taken screenshots (iceman, bizzy, forcedreps) has had their shots look slightly different from each other. Hell, Forced Reps posted two sets from two difference sources (VHS and DVD) and they were a bit different.

does that mean they are all fake? hell no.

different sources, different programs, etc etc. will lead to slight differences in how they turn out.

but what you fail to realize is that ronnie's physique looks identical in all of them.

so all the bickering on the guy side is nothing but a pathetic waste of time that is not fooling anyone.

[Hulkster]

Muscle looks painted on. Rediculous.

they forgot to paint on the detail. that is one of the smoothest lat spreads ever.

not even close to this:

[Shockwave]

they forgot to paint on the detail. that is one of the smoothest lat spreads ever.

not even close to this:

Too bad hes those balance problems, and ya know, since he wasnt quite as conditioned in 99 as he was in 98. LOL.
You can actually see where Dorians lats actually hook into his lower back. Talk about conditioning.

[Shockwave]

Owning the shit outta El Sonbaty and Levrone. Man Levrone was off this year.

[Shockwave]

Win!