Shawn Ray's First Experiences as a Promoters

[Hedgehog]

From the voracity that Keith has come with against shawn, I seriously believe that Shawn did skip out on that hotel bill.  It fits his character, and no way would Keith put that kinda venom out there unless it's true.

But the sad thing is, ppl are not held accountable for their actions.  bob Chick made horrible racist claims, was proven dead wrong, and just decided to "drop it".  Shawn prob did skip out on that hotel bill and his unwillingness to walk onstage to hand out a check at your show was a dick move too.  Pride or whatever on his part didn't seem to stop him from walking onstage this weekend.

So yeah, I think Keith is right about Shawn.  The best revenge would be to get a PDI show in HI and show em how it's done!

You think people should be held accountable?

YIP
Zack

[Chico_Holiday]

240 gotta go against you on this.  I was thinkning about having a semi-top name comedian come in and be my entertainment for my show.  The cheapest I found was Carlos Mencia at $10,000 plus expenses.  Howie Mandel is over $20,000.  The  Amazing Jonathan was $15,000.  The Regurgetator was $10,000.  I wanted to bring in those two brothers from Vegas who do the balancing act and are really built.  They are very expensive too, $10,000 apiece.  Plus expenses for all.  You need to find the most popular local person who the local audience just loves and have them be the emcee. It may cost a few grand but you save in travel expenses.  He can emcee and during any down time entertain.    Quick witted and fast talking guys are the best.

I'm sure Mencia's price will be going up soon........his show is getting more and more popular.  One of the funniest things on right now....

[onlyme]

But Keith, here's the thing - every person who attended the show says they had a good time.  I felt it was a great value for my money and  I'll be there again in 2007, perhaps even as a sponsor. 

The only people hatin' on the event are the ones who weren't even there.  No one is denying that they've got some areas to improve upon for next year, but they're SUPPOSED to have things to work on...every event does. 

I just don't believe you guys who were not present can give honest, well-founded critiques.  You're so caught up in your 'I told you so' business that you're totally missing the point...that the fans enjoyed themselves and the athletes are all getting paid within a reasonable time period. 

I am not saying the show was bad.  I got so many emails and letters from people telling me how great my show was too.  My website was packed with all positive feedback.  I have said I liked the webcast allot.  It even changed my whole outlook on it.  The show went fairly smooth.  The expo was small but theother stuff seemed good from what Ihave read.  The show itself was a success.  I admit that 100% and have said nothing to the contrary.  What I saying is it was a financial nightmare and failure.  Just like mine.  No matter how great the show is if it keeps losing money or you lose too much it won't go on.  The fans don't see this.  I got so much shit when I had to cancel my show you won't believe.  I still stick by what I say about Denver being a wrong place to have it at.  I think for now the convention center is not the place to have it at.  Guaranteed if he does this next year and it is a financila flop like this year, there won't be a year 3.  You can only lose so much money until you have to throw in the towel.

[onlyme]

In addition, I sound a little bitter about Sean yes but he started it.  Bashing me cause of a weight gain that I had receievd after an accident is pretty cool uh.  I couldn't attack his physical appearance cause his body is so nice.  But not anymore!  So I use what I had to defend myself.  I understand that Sean is a god to most of you but I have worked and became friends with many people who make Sean look like, well like Sean. 

You guys make it sound like I am bashing him for putting on this show, yet you didn't know I set him up with the military connection for his show that allowed him promote he is supporting the military.  Of course he won't mention that.  All my comments tohim as harsh as they sound are from exepreicne  had with my show, which is very similar to what he did.  I know how a convention center works and I know the costs and hidden costs.  I know how to promote and produce a show exactly like his.  I did it.  So my suggestions were real and were truly there to help him realize he needs to change if its going to make money. I defintiely learn from every mistake I make.  It might take me 2 or 3 times but I do learn.  And I always listen to people who have gone through the same thing.  Anyway, the show is over he is still alive and hopefully he'll listen to people and make it a financial success next year.

[littleguns]

The DVD is coming soon...........Stay tuned to: www.coloradoproshow.com
I had a Blast!
I'd like to thank the Academy, as well as the Sponsors and Athletes butmost of all I'd like to thanks the FANS!
All 3 of them! You guys are the reason I will be pulling out all the stops for the next 2 years as we signed on the dotted line last night!

1st Weekend of June 2007!

My review will be detailed in Flex Magazine, Muscular Development and on my web site: www.shawnray.com
Peace,
S. Ray

Shawn...you forgot to thank God, Allah and the almighty James T Kirk for making this all possible. 

[Hedgehog]

In addition, I sound a little bitter about Sean yes but he started it.  Bashing me cause of a weight gain that I had receievd after an accident is pretty cool uh.  I couldn't attack his physical appearance cause his body is so nice.  But not anymore!  So I use what I had to defend myself.  I understand that Sean is a god to most of you but I have worked and became friends with many people who make Sean look like, well like Sean. 

You guys make it sound like I am bashing him for putting on this show, yet you didn't know I set him up with the military connection for his show that allowed him promote he is supporting the military.  Of course he won't mention that.  All my comments tohim as harsh as they sound are from exepreicne  had with my show, which is very similar to what he did.  I know how a convention center works and I know the costs and hidden costs.  I know how to promote and produce a show exactly like his.  I did it.  So my suggestions were real and were truly there to help him realize he needs to change if its going to make money. I defintiely learn from every mistake I make.  It might take me 2 or 3 times but I do learn.  And I always listen to people who have gone through the same thing.  Anyway, the show is over he is still alive and hopefully he'll listen to people and make it a financial success next year.

Remember, he's short.

That's always funny.

You can never be funny, since you're tall.

When Shawn gets fat, he also per definition becomes jolly.

A tall and big guy is always up against tough odds. Look at Frodo and Boromir, David and Goliath.

The Smurfs vs Garfunkel.

Bridget the Midget vs any of her male co-stars.

You get the idea.

YIP
Zack

[rocket]

In addition, I sound a little bitter about Sean yes but he started it.  Bashing me cause of a weight gain that I had receievd after an accident is pretty cool uh.  I couldn't attack his physical appearance cause his body is so nice.  But not anymore!  So I use what I had to defend myself.  I understand that Sean is a god to most of you but I have worked and became friends with many people who make Sean look like, well like Sean. 

You guys make it sound like I am bashing him for putting on this show, yet you didn't know I set him up with the military connection for his show that allowed him promote he is supporting the military.  Of course he won't mention that.  All my comments tohim as harsh as they sound are from exepreicne  had with my show, which is very similar to what he did.  I know how a convention center works and I know the costs and hidden costs.  I know how to promote and produce a show exactly like his.  I did it.  So my suggestions were real and were truly there to help him realize he needs to change if its going to make money. I defintiely learn from every mistake I make.  It might take me 2 or 3 times but I do learn.  And I always listen to people who have gone through the same thing.  Anyway, the show is over he is still alive and hopefully he'll listen to people and make it a financial success next year.

Listen I think what people are trying say Keith is that you've led an interesting life so far and its a drag to see you wasting your time with petty differences on getbig.  We know you've had a setback and a lot like arvilla everybody wants to see you back in shape.  We'd rather not see you wallowing in the mediocrity that is sniping at each other here.  If you were kicking ass and taking names you wouldn't be caught dead arguing over this with Shawn, you'd be too busy skullcrushing.

So suck it up princess and get back to doing interesting stuff 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Seanie, just think your show sucked more than mine.  And from the way you look in the pictures, on TV, on stage and in those ghetto sweatsuits you are just as fat as me just allot shorter.  When is that seminar you are giving on BB Show Promotion.  That should be funnier than all hell.  You should do a DVD on it.  The title can be How to Waste Spend Sponsor Money Not Your Own and Not Come Close to Filling the House

By the way, the best way to hide your pain is to laugh.  So at least you are doing one thing right.  Great show by the way

Onlyme, you only run an NPC show and the overhead is absolutely nothing compared to an actual pro show.  Not only that, you've been running it for a while if I'm not mistaken.  I can't believe you are actually comparing the latter of the two.  Its a lot less expensive to run an NPC show than a IFBB pro show

[FOR REAL]

The funny thing is, I honestly think 240 has some pretty good ideas for Shawn... I do not agree with all that he is saying, but he does make a lot of good points and i think Shawn could benefit from listening to him, or at least considering some of his advice... But Shawn is just your typical guy with an over-inflated ego who always thinks he is right, so i am sure he won't even think for a second that a "nobody" like 240 might actually help him make more $$$...

[Captain Equipoise]

Listen I think what people are trying say Keith is that you've led an interesting life so far and its a drag to see you wasting your time with petty differences on getbig.  We know you've had a setback and a lot like arvilla everybody wants to see you back in shape.  We'd rather not see you wallowing in the mediocrity that is sniping at each other here.  If you were kicking ass and taking names you wouldn't be caught dead arguing over this with Shawn, you'd be too busy skullcrushing.

So suck it up princess and get back to doing interesting stuff 

Well put!

[joshberry2000]

the comedian was a big mistake stick to the sport and not to cheap gimmicks

give the people what they came to see.

[onlyme]

Onlyme, you only run an NPC show and the overhead is absolutely nothing compared to an actual pro show.  Not only that, you've been running it for a while if I'm not mistaken.  I can't believe you are actually comparing the latter of the two.  Its a lot less expensive to run an NPC show than a IFBB pro show

Vince I will you a lesson since you have absolutely not one idea what you are talking about. You are right in only one point, but forgot the most important part.  Most NPC shows are not big dollar shows.  Probably around $40,000 or so if that.  But, since you don't read yet or good or just don't comprehend what you read, let me enlighten you.  My show was a mini-ASC.  I rented the Hawaii COnvention Center for $48,000 for three days (that is rent ONLY).  So just to rent my location alone cost more than any NPC show has ever cost in Hawaii and more than probably almost any other NPC show out there except for a few.  I gave away a total of $40,000+ in CASH for various events at my show including $18,000 in CASH for my Bikini Contest and $14,000 for the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Tournament.  Booths, decorations and carpet cost another $35,000.  Sound, stages (4 of them), lighting and video cost another $22,000.  I paid for 16 VIP's and their wives to come to the show plus hotel rooms (some for a week), rental cars and cell phones were provided.  Not sure the total cost but it was around $20,000.  Plus appearance fees for all these guys that ranged from $2,000 to $3,500. 

So before you open you dumb sounding mouth think before you type or at least read cause I have posted this several times.  The following year I downsided and spent probably around $75,000.  Sean's show is based allot like mine.  In fact he even said on here somewhere I inspired him to do a show.  Now that was probably a jab at me but whateever.

SO when I talk about his show I know exactly to the tee what he is going through.  I have promoted several other shows (BB) here in Hawaii but nowhere else.  Other than the prize money he gave for the BB (which n reality is only $32,000 more than I did) and the Hummer, our costs are very close.  But if you add the cost of me bringing in so many pros and VIP's then that brings it closer. 

So thank you for your insight but again you are wrong.

[onlyme]

Listen I think what people are trying say Keith is that you've led an interesting life so far and its a drag to see you wasting your time with petty differences on getbig.  We know you've had a setback and a lot like arvilla everybody wants to see you back in shape.  We'd rather not see you wallowing in the mediocrity that is sniping at each other here.  If you were kicking ass and taking names you wouldn't be caught dead arguing over this with Shawn, you'd be too busy skullcrushing.

So suck it up princess and get back to doing interesting stuff 

Yes I know what you are saying.  I am gettng PM's and emails telling me why I am doing this. First off all along even when I was competing or after and ding appearance or whatever I never ever once thought I was better than anyone.  The thing everyone seemed to like about me was how easy it was to talk to me and approach me.  I would always get the "man you are easy to talk to" or something like that. 

Well now I am a nobody and I really don't feel like anythng special at all.  And even if I did I would never act like I "all that".  I enjoy talking and I enjoy typing.  I may have a size 14 ring finger but I can type very fast.  So coming on here and going through all this with Sean or whatever doesn't bother at all as it probably doesn;t bother him.  I do think he respects my posts no matter how bad they are against him cause I am not a internet troll like some people on here who have never done anything in their lives (yet).  At least at one point I did something.  So I think that is why he pays more attention to me.  All along I have said he HAD one of the best bodies ever.  I would take his body look over Coleman, Cutler, Ruhls or anyone like that in a heartbeat except for the height.  I don't think I could like being that short.  But other than that he WAS great at one time.  He needs to realize he is not that same guy anymore.  I know it took me some time but I am living with it.  He maes fun of how I look now and actually I am looking a whole lot better now than I did when I last saw him.  Come Olympia I will be a whole lot better.

But sorry for the people who thnk I am lowering myself.  I am just being real.  I have had 435+ PM's.  People asking me how to train to how is was to meet Ali.  And I answer everyone of them.  And I get back from allot of them a big thank you for taking the time out to respond.  That is what I like to do.  Sorry but can't change that about me.

[divcom]

Vince I will you a lesson since you have absolutely not one idea what you are talking about. You are right in only one point, but forgot the most important part.  Most NPC shows are not big dollar shows.  Probably around $40,000 or so if that.  But, since you don't read yet or good or just don't comprehend what you read, let me enlighten you.  My show was a mini-ASC.  I rented the Hawaii COnvention Center for $48,000 for three days (that is rent ONLY).  So just to rent my location alone cost more than any NPC show has ever cost in Hawaii and more than probably almost any other NPC show out there except for a few.  I gave away a total of $40,000+ in CASH for various events at my show including $18,000 in CASH for my Bikini Contest and $14,000 for the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Tournament.  Booths, decorations and carpet cost another $35,000.  Sound, stages (4 of them), lighting and video cost another $22,000.  I paid for 16 VIP's and their wives to come to the show plus hotel rooms (some for a week), rental cars and cell phones were provided.  Not sure the total cost but it was around $20,000.  Plus appearance fees for all these guys that ranged from $2,000 to $3,500. 

So before you open you dumb sounding mouth think before you type or at least read cause I have posted this several times.  The following year I downsided and spent probably around $75,000.  Sean's show is based allot like mine.  In fact he even said on here somewhere I inspired him to do a show.  Now that was probably a jab at me but whateever.

SO when I talk about his show I know exactly to the tee what he is going through.  I have promoted several other shows (BB) here in Hawaii but nowhere else.  Other than the prize money he gave for the BB (which n reality is only $32,000 more than I did) and the Hummer, our costs are very close.  But if you add the cost of me bringing in so many pros and VIP's then that brings it closer. 

So thank you for your insight but again you are wrong.

Did you really think you'd break even or profit?  I'm not taking a jab at you.  I dont see the money exchanging hands like that other than the ASC and O.

[phyxsius]

  I do not know what started it exactly...but Shawn has not exactly been Mr. Niceguy toward Onlyme either.

because Sasha dumped Shawn for onlyme?

[onlyme]

Did you really think you'd break even or profit?  I'm not taking a jab at you.  I dont see the money exchanging hands like that other than the ASC and O.

Actually yes.  Shows here do very good cause the locals are attracted to celebrities here usually.  We are on an island and isolated from allot of stuff.  I went to the ASC and saw what they had.  I tried to model the show after that with many different things going on so that we hit a wider market.  I had originally had the Hawaii State Gymnastics champinships scheduled but at the last moment it changed to a local show.  That hurt a little.  On top of that the parents of the kids came to the show and threatened not to let their kids do the show unless they got in free like at other shows they do.  The Gracie event was going to be their State championships all the way up to just a couple weeks before the show but they decided they wanted to make it bigger so they invited everyone.  Well the guys who mostly showed up were from Brazil.  The local guys just didn't have the experience so the backed out.  We still had 140 competitors.

I also went to the local car show.  I have been to several car shows on the mainland like Miami, LA and San Diego but the Honolulu car show sucks.  It is so small.  It literally took us 20 minutes to see the whole show.  Well for the weekend they drew 30,000 people.  The health expo here in Oct.  draws 50,000+ for 4 days.

So I thought absolutely no problem drawing around 30,000 people especiall since I have so much going on.  And different things.  I sceduled it for Memorial Day weekend.  Thinking because of my militay conections and the promotions I do with the military I could draw a good number of military.  I even had 16 teams to goup against Dragan for his challenge he does. I was offering $1,000 for the military team that does the most reps even if they don't beat Dragan.  I had 4 bikini models handing out flyers on Pearl Harbor and Kaneohe Marine Base.  The response from them was unreal.  I had sevral seminars done on bases too.  But, that weekend was Rimpac (a military exercise) and on Memorial Day they give tours of the bases and most personel is not allowed to leave the base.  So, I basically had NO military there.  Just a few voluteers that helped allot.  So, instead of 30,000 we ended up with aruond 6,000 paid tickets to the expo.  That doesn't included mostof the first day everyone got in free cause the security ad door people provided me by the center did not take tickets and let everyone in free.

So basically I lost big time.  It was defintiely worth taking the chance.  I truly believe the biggest reason was the date.  Never on a holiday especially in Hawaii.  They are so regimented here.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Vince I will you a lesson since you have absolutely not one idea what you are talking about. You are right in only one point, but forgot the most important part.  Most NPC shows are not big dollar shows.  Probably around $40,000 or so if that.  But, since you don't read yet or good or just don't comprehend what you read, let me enlighten you.  My show was a mini-ASC.  I rented the Hawaii COnvention Center for $48,000 for three days (that is rent ONLY).  So just to rent my location alone cost more than any NPC show has ever cost in Hawaii and more than probably almost any other NPC show out there except for a few.  I gave away a total of $40,000+ in CASH for various events at my show including $18,000 in CASH for my Bikini Contest and $14,000 for the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Tournament.  Booths, decorations and carpet cost another $35,000.  Sound, stages (4 of them), lighting and video cost another $22,000.  I paid for 16 VIP's and their wives to come to the show plus hotel rooms (some for a week), rental cars and cell phones were provided.  Not sure the total cost but it was around $20,000.  Plus appearance fees for all these guys that ranged from $2,000 to $3,500. 

So before you open you dumb sounding mouth think before you type or at least read cause I have posted this several times.  The following year I downsided and spent probably around $75,000.  Sean's show is based allot like mine.  In fact he even said on here somewhere I inspired him to do a show.  Now that was probably a jab at me but whateever.

SO when I talk about his show I know exactly to the tee what he is going through.  I have promoted several other shows (BB) here in Hawaii but nowhere else.  Other than the prize money he gave for the BB (which n reality is only $32,000 more than I did) and the Hummer, our costs are very close.  But if you add the cost of me bringing in so many pros and VIP's then that brings it closer. 

So thank you for your insight but again you are wrong.

Ok, I'll give you points on that because I haven't track of your shows as of late and your show has pretty much expanded a great deal.  I was going by the "general NPC events and you know exactly what I'm referring too.

But seriously, your show couldn't have cost more than Shawn's.  There may have been more people but give me a break.

[onlyme]

Ok, I'll give you points on that because I haven't track of your shows as of late and your show has pretty much expanded a great deal.  I was going by the "general NPC events and you know exactly what I'm referring too.

But seriously, your show couldn't have cost more than Shawn's.  There may have been more people but give me a break.

I don't think I said it cost more than Seans but it did cost allot.  Seans had allot of prize money and the hummer.  right there is $102,000. 

[Hedgehog]

If you met 6000 people at local gyms (200 per gym for 30 appearances), at least half of them would show up, and probably bring a friend or two!

Bumping this question:

What do you base this statement on?

Seems like all those people teaching marketing and sale ratios actually have no clue.

A 50% turnout. Wow.

YIP
Zack

[240 is Back]

ok, my math was skewed and i type and think way too fast sometimes-

I think 5000 to 6000 could have been a realistic number for the Colo Pro if a long term grassroots gym campaign was launched. Not 50%, that is too high an estimate.  But 5-6000 could be grabbed with 1) tix sales in gyms on commission 2) tix sales on SRay appearance 3) some print ads, specialized.

[Hedgehog]

ok, my math was skewed and i type and think way too fast sometimes-

I think 5000 to 6000 could have been a realistic number for the Colo Pro if a long term grassroots gym campaign was launched. Not 50%, that is too high an estimate.  But 5-6000 could be grabbed with 1) tix sales in gyms on commission 2) tix sales on SRay appearance 3) some print ads, specialized.

Look man.

There is probably a lot of things that could've been done better with the promotion and marketing for the CO competition. It's a learning experience.

But there is one truth that almost always holds for all businesses, and I think it does here too:

THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES.

Most of the time, it's gonna be hard ass labour and wise decisions that will bring prospective future.

And forgive me if I say so, the suggestions of comedian and appearances with the 50% turnout expectancy, it smells a bit too much wishful thinking -hoping of quick fixes.

As long as there is a solid evaluation, the CO Pro has every chance of improving.

People are whining about Shawn Ray not taking any personal economical loss? Are you kidding? This to me indicates that he is a guy that should be in charge of promoting these events. He will look to get business involved.


YIP
Zack

[divcom]

It seems like a lot of numbers are being thrown around... so I'm assuming this comment was based on the comparsion between radio and general pop advertising vs meeting the fitness people at gyms. 

Denver doesnt have any Gold's gyms or the smaller hardcore locations but has about 7-9 Ball's, 24hr Fit and Better bod locations with 20 miles of downtown Denver with very, very large membership bases.

Again... they are composed of people more interested in general fitness than bbing on the pro-level. Maybe the IFBB  needs to pick up on sponsors and advertisers that cover the weight watcher  type market and so forth.  Stilll believe the fit/fig girls are the key to the marketing problems with bbing.  Maybe in the end they become the headliners over men's bbing if the IFBB sits down with marketing companies and figures out a formula. 

But that might bring in competition and I'm not sure the few that have their hands in the pie are looking for that.  Plus some of the fossils have to go... so new ideas can be brought forth.   

[Lift Studios]

I'm not going to go into depth and detail on this but there are MANY MANY factors involved that you guys have no clue on.

Example... You think it's as easy as just going to 24 hour fitness and putting on a seminar? 24 hour fitness as more coporate rules and regulations then imaginable. Basically, if it isn't the Olympics or Lance Armstrong it won't happen in their clubs. Jeff wasn't allowed to hang posters in any 24 hour fitness gym because of their rules. Passing out flyers and information had to be done outside of the gym and not allowed in the gym.

[divcom]

Just  putting ideas out there!  It's up to the fossils that run the industry to find a new formula that works.  Maybe the fit/fig girls should be moved to the front of the line.  Promote them first than bbers including the men.  Avg person can relate to Monica, Dina, Bethany, DJ and so forth more than Ronnie, Jay and Phil.  Take a weight watchers approach to the whole thing than hardcore bbing.  Just ideas.  The companies have the dough. That's what god made marketing companies for!  Maybe the fossils dont wont real competition coming in.

[HowieW]

Atendance? Ticket sales? NPC div entrants, expo traffic, etc?
If a smart guy that is a legend in the sport can't make a go of this the sport is doomed.
I hope it went well, but due a death in my wife's family I did not go or follow the show.