Wing Chun

[torquemada]

"Realkarate blackbelt", should get in the cage and show them the true power of Tae-ko-ku-shodan and chinto.

I'm completely serious, show them the power of traditional martial arts and the dedication it takes to get a blackbelt in shotokan karate.  Obviously your vast knowledge of kata will protect you from those morons who just do thai boxing and bjj.

Agreed; call out Ortiz since he's just a sport pussy

[Oldschool Flip]

"Realkarate blackbelt", should get in the cage and show them the true power of Tae-ko-ku-shodan and chinto.

I'm completely serious, show them the power of traditional martial arts and the dedication it takes to get a blackbelt in shotokan karate.  Obviously your vast knowledge of kata will protect you from those morons who just do thai boxing and bjj.

I totally agree with you an123. realkarateblackbelt reminds of this guy who "renders people unconcious" without striking them, but using a "chi blow"! George Dillman was shown on the National Geographic Channel displaying his "knockout art" until he was tested by a sceptic. Of course he couldn't knock him out and gave an excuse to why.
I've gone to Fairtex school in SF (Muay Thai) and another in Concord CA (BJ Penn used to train there) and got a taste of how combative the competitors are. In a street fight, with no weapons, most of these guys would jack you up. I've be tinkering with Bjj and muay thai for a while now, and in my opinion, I could care less if someone was a blackbelt in almost any martial art, because once taken to the ground, their stand up technique is useless. As for realkarateblackbelt's claim that MMA and Pride fighters are sport fighters, because they wear gloves and don't do groin strikes and eye gouge, the rules were implemented so that there wouldn't be fighters that would be hindered to fight in future bouts. Take a guy's eye out and what? That's guys no longer a competitor.

My question to him is what I ask of most "martial arts experts". When you compete (not kata, but actual striking and fighting competions) if what you claim MMA and Pride fighters are just "sport fighters", why the hell do they wear headgear, foot and hand protection and in some cases body protection at the competitions? Isn't that sport fighting? If your claim is to be able to "maim" your opponent, why are there also rules in those competitions?

Just like in all "martial arts classes" when training they teach you to "pull up" on a kick or punch so you don't harm your training partner. Wow, what good will that do when you get in a real brawl.

[Oldschool Flip]

You say Hackney in his prime couldn't compete, but that's your opinion. Hackney was a true "street fighter" not a sport fighter like the current crop.

Lol, wow your opinion must not be shared by Keith Hackney! His website even says MMA is the better way to go than traditional martial arts! Guess that means your claims are BS. Oh and I provide sources:

http://www.hackneyscombat.com/default.asp?page=4

What is Mixed Martial Arts?

Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) is really not a style. It is a mind set for the type of training that you do. It combines various aspects of different styles with a more western approach to training. So what does that mean? Simple, we train people to use what ever works period. Although many look at MMA as a sport, which it is, it is much more and meant to give you well rounded skills that can be applied to self defense.


Why Mixed Martial Arts instead of Traditional?

In the Martial Arts community, many have said that if you take a boxer against a traditional martial artist, of the same experience, the traditional martial artist is at a disadvantage. Why? Well it's not that the traditional martial artist doesn't have the tools to win, he just didn't train as realistically as a boxer. Boxers know what works and what doesn't because their training is "live" and not worked against a static willing partner. MMA training follows the same guidelines except that besided using only our fists as weapons, we teach you to use all of your body and at all ranges of defense.


[/quote]Again I said that in an earlier post:

Just like in all "martial arts classes" when training they teach you to "pull up" on a kick or punch so you don't harm your training partner. Wow, what good will that do when you get in a real brawl.

Now what? You going to come up with another "stand up traditional martial artist" that can compete in UFC and Pride?

[realkarateblackbelt]

You don't understand what Keith is saying. By MMA, he means you should learn to fight stand up and on the ground. I'm sure he's confident in his standup skills.

[realkarateblackbelt]

"Realkarate blackbelt", should get in the cage and show them the true power of Tae-ko-ku-shodan and chinto.

I'm completely serious, show them the power of traditional martial arts and the dedication it takes to get a blackbelt in shotokan karate.  Obviously your vast knowledge of kata will protect you from those morons who just do thai boxing and bjj.

Keith Hackney, Bas Rutten, and Andy Hug have proven this already.

[Oldschool Flip]

You don't understand what Keith is saying. By MMA, he means you should learn to fight stand up and on the ground. I'm sure he's confident in his standup skills.

How much don't you understand? Here I'll break down each statement for you:

http://www.hackneyscombat.com/default.asp?page=4
Why Mixed Martial Arts instead of Traditional?

In the Martial Arts community,

Meaning the teachings of Maritial arts.

many have said that if you take a boxer against a traditional martial artist, of the same experience, the traditional martial artist is at a disadvantage.

That means a martial artist is in trouble.

Why? Well it's not that the traditional martial artist doesn't have the tools to win, he just didn't train as realistically as a boxer.

Meaning Martial Artists make up a scenario and then "step by step" show how to defend against it. First in slow motion and then in regular motion with the assailant not fighting back.

Boxers know what works and what doesn't because their training is "live" and not worked against a static willing partner.

Meaning a paid assistant does whatever you want them to do.

MMA training follows the same guidelines except that besided using only our fists as weapons, we teach you to use all of your body and at all ranges of defense.

Meaning MMA is dominant against martial arts.


Maybe that will help you to understand what Hackney meant.

[realkarateblackbelt]

I don't really care. MMA is not a style. MMA means "mixed-martial-arts" it simply means a mixture of styles. Of course you can't just do kata and expect to win a real fight. There are some mall karate schools that do this. Karate teachers like Mas Oyama had his students compete full contact and they were used to getting hit. These guys(Oyama's full contact fighters) would destroy most boxers easily. One roundhouse kick to the stomach and the stupid boxer would be down for the count. I've done it. I kicked some street fighter right in his head and knocked him out cold. How many guys that just do boxing win in MMA?

Kyokushin has Andy Hug - K-1 champion, and Bas Rutten - UFC champ

[Oldschool Flip]

I don't really care. MMA is not a style. MMA means "mixed-martial-arts" it simply means a mixture of styles. Of course you can't just do kata and expect to win a real fight. There are some mall karate schools that do this. Karate teachers like Mas Oyama had his students compete full contact and they were used to getting hit. These guys(Oyama's full contact fighters) would destroy most boxers easily. One roundhouse kick to the stomach and the stupid boxer would be down for the count. I've done it. I kicked some street fighter right in his head and knocked him out cold. How many guys that just do boxing win in MMA?

Kyokushin has Andy Hug - K-1 champion, and Bas Rutten - UFC champ

Lol, dude MMA is true competition fighting. Martial Arts competitions are nothing but that, Martial ARTS!
Lol and if you kicked a street fighter in the head and knocked him out, I assume he was an actual MMA competitor or just some "tough guy" who we all know in most instances don't really know how to fight?

Again Andy Hug and Bas Rutten became champs AFTER they left not during their stay. I was the spelling bee Champion in Middle school, do I accredit that to my elementary school?

[realkarateblackbelt]

This doesn't make sense. Your last post. Did Andy Hug suddenly forget how to do Karate when he entered K-1 and defeated everyone?

[realkarateblackbelt]

Andy Hug Kyokushin Karate fighter and K-1 champ

[realkarateblackbelt]

Andy Hug - full contact days - from masutatsuoyama.com

[realkarateblackbelt]

[realkarateblackbelt]

[Oldschool Flip]

This doesn't make sense. Your last post. Did Andy Hug suddenly forget how to do Karate when he entered K-1 and defeated everyone?

Lol, dude I am refuting what you have said. So let's go over it one at a time.

Can a Martial Artist (regardless of art form or discipline) with ONLY traditional art form fighting win in today's MMA competitions? Key word is ONLY.

[realkarateblackbelt]

Lol, dude I am refuting what you have said. So let's go over it one at a time.

Can a Martial Artist (regardless of art form or discipline) with ONLY traditional art from fighting win in today's MMA competitions? Key word is ONLY.

Depends on the rules. If head butts, elbows, ground kicks, and throat strikes are legal absolutely. In UFC it is unlikely. You should train ground and standup to be complete though. Strikers have many of their weapons taken away in MMA. Most MMA fighters are jack of all trades and master of none.

[Oldschool Flip]

Depends on the rules. If head butts, elbows, ground kicks, and throat strikes are legal absolutely. In UFC it is unlikely. You should train ground and standup to be complete though. Strikers have many of their weapons taken away in MMA. Most MMA fighters are jack of all trades and master of none.

So you say no?

[realkarateblackbelt]

So you say no?

All things being equal(height, weight) yes.

[Oldschool Flip]

All things being equal(height, weight) yes.

Okay we agree that a martial artist ONLY doing traditional arts from fighting would lose to an MMA fighter in competition.

Why do you view MMA as an undisciplined form of fighting?

[realkarateblackbelt]

Okay we agree that a martial artist ONLY doing traditional arts from fighting would lose to an MMA fighter in competition.

Why do you view MMA as an undisciplined form of fighting?

Like I said it depends on the rules. In something like Vale Tudo, a traditional fighter could do very well. In the current UFC a pure standup fighter would lose more often than not.

MMA is not a fighting style. It just means someone proficient in standup and ground fighting, or, open fighting. Most are jack of all trades fighters. They were good wrestlers in high school so they decided to take a cycle and cross-train but they never really master anything(standup or ground). In a competition like the UFC that penalizes standup fighters, that's all it takes.

[Oldschool Flip]

Like I said it depends on the rules. In something like Vale Tudo, a traditional fighter could do very well. In the current UFC a pure standup fighter would lose more often than not.

MMA is not a fighting style. It just means someone proficient in standup and ground fighting, or, open fighting. Most are jack of all trades fighters. They were good wrestlers in high school so they decided to take a cycle and cross-train but they never really master anything(standup or ground). In a competition like the UFC that penalizes standup fighters, that's all it takes.

Why is it that it penalizes stand up fighter in your opinion again?

[realkarateblackbelt]

Because Karate fighters are too dangerous. They are taught to strike the throat, groin, eyes, and headbutt - in addition to all the kicks utilized by kickboxers + front kicks, back kicks, crescent kicks, side-kicks, snap kicks, etc. UFC is biased to ground fighters. But it makes sense - because people would be crippled if they didn't do it that way.

[Oldschool Flip]

Because Karate fighters are too dangerous. They are taught to strike the throat, groin, eyes, and headbutt - in addition to all the kicks utilized by kickboxers + front kicks, back kicks, crescent kicks, side-kicks, snap kicks, etc. UFC is biased to ground fighters. But it makes sense - because people would be crippled if they didn't do it that way.

So you are saying there are competitions where these tactics are allowed?

[realkarateblackbelt]

Vale Tudo allows everything but eye gouges last I checked. It's in Brasil.

[Oldschool Flip]

Vale Tudo allows everything but eye gouges last I checked. It's in Brazil.

Well, maybe you need an update:

http://www.kamppailuopisto.com/fightfestival/valetudorules.pdf


But besides that, there are competitions that have those prerequisites?

[an123]

I found a super secret training class taught none other by "realkarateblackbelt".  Please watch and add these deadly moves to your arsenal, you will be the ultimate fighter (on tv or on your block) in no time!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7925292111832234698&q=karate