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Author Topic: STEVE REEVES- behind the scenes (only for getbiggers,,only on getbig!)  (Read 50484 times)
Casey Butt
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« Reply #200 on: December 09, 2006, 02:17:39 PM »

Reeves carried just under 25% more lean body mass than the average "fit" man of his height and structure ...as do I. That assessment is based on about 10 years of research into, and analysis of, anthropometric data. I have degrees in mathematics and statistics, physics and engineering that allow such analysis. I don't mean to throw credentials around, I mention it merely to assure you that I'm no stranger to the scientific process or the analysis of data ...in fact, it's my "job".

Many natural trainees around the world, carry a similar (and greater) level of development than me. I didn't claim that I have a better physique than Reeves, that my "achievement" is in any way equal to his, or that we are "alike". I simply stated that, proportionally, we have added roughly the same amount of muscle mass to our frames. I will also state that with the proper training, dedication and patience almost anybody can do the same thing. If that offends some people then I think they probably aren't mature enough to warrant a response anyway. But I would also add that it is easy to call me delusional, but I am one of the few people here who is posting under his real name with his real photo in the corner. I may be under a "delusion", but I am not attempting to hide behind an "illusion" of any sort.

How I compared Reeves and Park: There is nothing funny about it. Reeves weighed 213 when he won the Mr. Universe in 1950. Park weighed 214 when he won it the following year. They are both the same height, however Park had an 8" wrist versus Reeves' 7.5" wrist. They both had the same ankle measurement. Also, Park was slightly leaner in 1951 than Reeves was in 1950. Therefore, Park carried, at most, only a few pounds more muscle mass than Reeves, and his heavier upper body bone structure would predict that.

It really doesn't matter to me if Reeves used drugs or not. However, for some people it does because strong positive role-models are necessary for drug-free beginners and intermediates. People need to know what is capable without drugs so they know where to set ambitious, but realistic, goals for themselves ...without the use of drugs.

I joined this board compulsively when I saw some obvious misinformation being spread by people who, quite honestly, aren't qualified to speak authoritatively on this subject. I don't consider myself an "authority" but I do know a lot more than most people about this - I've been at this for a long time and I've seen this stuff hashed around for years. At the same time, there are some people on here who do speak with some authority on these matters. I cannot state emphatically that any of these men did or did not use drugs. However, given the history of anabolic steroids, and the level of development they carried, I can say that it was highly unlikely that they were drug-users.

Ahhh Jay -- a perfect example of a man with a well-developed physique who feels no need to doubt or slander the "old-timers". Thanks for the "support", by the way, but I'm afraid this thread definitely has that "gettin' ugly" smell to it. Wink
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Jay Em
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« Reply #201 on: December 09, 2006, 06:39:19 PM »

Yea, GH15, and while connecting the DOTS as you said doesn't take a
rocket scientist, it apparently takes more than some people on this thread are
capable of surmising??

Regarding your comments about health and longevity, where Steve has taken
additional knocks from you. I can relate to anyone's frustration over Steve's
death, at his age. Afterall, he exemplifies the strong, heathly, robust male, to
say the least. The screen Hercules who looked the part in real life.

Remember health crusader Paul Bragg? He died at 94. And even then people
wondered WHY? Larry Lewis (S.F. jogger) was 104 and worked full-time and
was a picture of health...and died one day in his sleep (just as I was to get
set to interview him). People couldn't believe it, even though he was 104.
On the flip side of that coin, entertainer Bob Hope, anything but a fitness
follower died at 100. Nobody was surprised except those who wondered how
he lasted that long? Comedian George Burns, a heavy cigar smoker his whole
life, who once admited his only exercise was trying to get uP to exercise, also
died at 100!

But there are elements--as I'm sure you must realize--that play a major role
in someone's life, far, far above all the material factors we all consider so vital
in predicting someone's existence, including fate.

Think of it this way, other than the obvious that when its your time, its your
time (out of your control, perhaps circumventing your own determined destiny)
had Steve Reeves NOT been so proactive in his fitness, bodybuilding life, and
had Larry Lewis not been the same, Steve may have passed at...58, 60...and
Larry Lewis at 85-90. In otherwords, as much as it will probably assist people
to live longer and healthier, exercising and diet and lifestyle is not an absolute
guarantee to live to a riper, older age. Nothing is absolute but death itself.
And often, there's no rhyme or reason to it. People who live like Geoege Burns
and are lucky to do everything and still live to a 100, would probably have
lived to 110-115 had he been a fitness bug like Lewis was. It goes both
ways. But it always boils down to personal genetics, life's destiny, fate and the spiritual aspects, however one defines that (or if they even do).

Speaking of which, you said, "thank you lord".

I'm certainly no expert in this area but shouldn't a person so "aligned" with the
lord be more accepting and unconditional in accepting other people, and less
critical and judgemental?

Or, I'm I being too judgemental myself?
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« Reply #202 on: December 09, 2006, 08:31:14 PM »

no my friend,,as i said over 100 times before,,im a CURRENT IFBB pro bodybuilder. i LIKE steeve reeves the bodybuilder
but i know what it takes since i been there and still are (Thank you lord)

yes steve reeves didnt have my muscle mass,,but so are many other wonderful physiqes around the usa and the rest of the world,,,that visit gyms day in day out and are hormonized to some degree.

the reason i mentioned children here is to show you how selfish one can be,,,you know you can adopt kids at your late 40s,,,you dont have to actually make them,,,he didnt bother with kids because he was self centered,,,no time for kids in his world,, period.

the reason i mentioned age 73,,,,is to demonstrate how an "amazing genetics" went kapoot at quite young age for this times. its not like he was born in 1824,,,you are talking here about a "HEALTH" freak that passed away before he touched the number 75. you got ronald reagan with ALZHEIMER living to see age 94!! you gotta get back to reailty my friend,,,this sport is very concited full of blown egos and fragile self esteems,,,when you build your career as a "natural",,,you wont let any one destroy you,,,even as of 2000s,,just ask skip,,,or maybe not Wink

you dont need to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots. listen to someone who is in the game and big big time in the game,,sandow was natural,,,jack L was natural (not london Wink) ......reeves,, ummm he was what we call today clean.
 

Not having kids indicates nothing.  One of the main reasons why Jeff and Cory broke up is because she wanted kids and he noway wanted any kids.  Some poeple just don't want kids. It doesn't mean they are self-centered.  I have two awesome kids but they too weren't planned.  And if I didn't have them I probably wouldn't have had any either.  I love kids but my lifestyle back then just wasn't targeted towards kids. I believe Steve took roids maybe once in his life.  Just to see what would happen.  His lifestyle and the way he embraced healthy eating and living just doesn't coincide with someone who takes roids regularly.  Huge mass was not something he wanted.  Outrageous strength is nothing he needed.  And to me the only reason to take roids is to either get stronger or get bigger.  Why else take them.
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BEAST 8692
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« Reply #203 on: December 10, 2006, 05:01:52 AM »

Casey:

'this thread is getting an ugly smell'? ok, i thought it was pretty confrontational from the outset, but there you go.

i don't buy your body weight theory and i certainly don't think your studies, physique or 'real name/pic' make you anything but someone that wants to talk about themselves.

no offence, but i'm sure the intention of this thread was not to discuss you and your 'credentials' Casey Butt.

it's quite simple, reg park much more heavily muscled at his peak than steve reeves. any way you want to spin it that's what it comes down to and, as for you and reeves? well, refer above.

some people always want to complain about message board opinions and the anonymity of it all Huh

hello, this is a message board people. it's what happens around here. we don't just sit down and read a seminar from Jay Em, Casey Butt or gh 15, we argue about shit Grin or should i say, debate topics in a very mature and sensible way?

anyway, i disagree with gh re age and genetics. it is very conceivable that steve had the genetics for a superb physique minus those required for longevity. in any case, imo, 73 aint bad.

i agree with gh's assertion that reeves was self absorbed. that much is obvious to me. i will also agree that, IMO, steve would have taken something to aid his performance given the chance, so the dependant factor, to me (can i stop with the caveats now? i think so), would be the availability of these substances which is currently fruit for some debate.

you see, reeves was a competitor. in fact he was a top competitor, the best in the world to be exact and he was very aware that this was his entire selling point since he didn't seem to advance from the product being entirely based on his physique, unlike schwarzenegger for example.

it is entirely within reason that this man was ready to take something (that wasn't considered dangerous at the time btw) to help him stay slightly ahead of the competition so to speak. again, this man's physique was his livelihood and legacy and yes, he was self absorbed. perhaps, maybe even extremely narcissistic.

yes, depending on the availability of hormones at the time, i believe there would be nothing stopping him taking them and, maybe at the same time still chew his food 20 times.

       

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Casey Butt
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« Reply #204 on: December 10, 2006, 01:46:55 PM »

"BEAST 8692", I'm forced to conclude that you either have insecurity issues or a learning disability.
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stuntmovie
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« Reply #205 on: December 10, 2006, 05:41:45 PM »

Casey, I've noticed that a lot on here, but it could be possible that a lot of this input is coming from kids who are either bodybuilding fans with a desire to sound important or from bodybuilding anti-fans who have no business here in the first place.

I, myself, am not concerned whether Reeves took roids or not, but my concern lies in the fact that people can come on here and make accusations against anyone and everyone and not be held accountable for their actions.

In the old days before we had free speech on the computer, you were most likely free to confront the individual after school if you had something adverse to state and he would be free to retaliate with a punch in the nose. And no one would ever speak adversely in public about an individual who had passed away no matter what the circumstances were.

Back when Steve was a kid, we were all held accountable for actions and suffered the consequences when we f----k'd up.

In Steve's day, parents took measures to insure that their kids followed the straight and narrow.

And if we got pulled before a judge, or confronted by a police officer; our parents were right there beside us getting lectured by the same authoritiy because they were responsible for the way we carried on.

Back then, no one except major drug users, even thought of sticking a needle in their ass or in their arm.

Even in the early 60's the athletes I knew were extremely adverse to the use of needles and it took a while to make that transition way after Reeves was out of the picture.

K, good talken to ya all. Heading out to sea for a couple of weeks.




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BEAST 8692
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« Reply #206 on: December 10, 2006, 07:51:34 PM »

ha ha, now i've ruffled some feathers.

i have no idea how anyone can take offence to my comments. please point out exactly where i have accused mr reeves of anything???

what i've done is, perhaps, offend a couple of egos on a message board. to have an ego on a message board is truly pathetic.

take a breath and think about that for a moment and then remove your head from your ass.

stunt, i assure you, i would have no problem at all stating what i have stated in person. in fact i am very much prepared to meet up and state it in person. if, then, you or anyone else are offended by what i say and want to punch me in the nose, please go ahead and do your best. invitation is actually a defence to assault so you have a green light to go ahead and make me accountable for my actions tough guy.

i did not want to turn this into a pissing contest and if anyone bothers to take the time to read what i have said with an open mind they will see that.

i have stated that i don't know anywhere near the knowledge of bbing history and steve reeves that some on this thread have, nevertheless i have no problem giving my opinion on specific matters pertaining to and will continue to do so.

i hope i have made myself clear enough that we can get off the subject of me and get back to the topic.

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« Reply #207 on: December 10, 2006, 08:13:15 PM »

ha ha, now i've ruffled some feathers.

i have no idea how anyone can take offence to my comments. please point out exactly where i have accused mr reeves of anything???

what i've done is, perhaps, offend a couple of egos on a message board. to have an ego on a message board is truly pathetic.

take a breath and think about that for a moment and then remove your head from your ass.

stunt, i assure you, i would have no problem at all stating what i have stated in person. in fact i am very much prepared to meet up and state it in person. if, then, you or anyone else are offended by what i say and want to punch me in the nose, please go ahead and do your best. invitation is actually a defence to assault so you have a green light to go ahead and make me accountable for my actions tough guy.

i did not want to turn this into a pissing contest and if anyone bothers to take the time to read what i have said with an open mind they will see that.

i have stated that i don't know anywhere near the knowledge of bbing history and steve reeves that some on this thread have, nevertheless i have no problem giving my opinion on specific matters pertaining to and will continue to do so.

i hope i have made myself clear enough that we can get off the subject of me and get back to the topic.



Beast don't threaten people on this board.  Cause I would have NO problem to telling you when I am on the mainland and we can talk.  Till then no more threats or I will ban you from this board.  This board is different from the others.  So play right or don't come back.
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« Reply #208 on: December 10, 2006, 08:41:10 PM »

Beast don't threaten people on this board.  Cause I would have NO problem to telling you when I am on the mainland and we can talk.  Till then no more threats or I will ban you from this board.  This board is different from the others.  So play right or don't come back.

i know you are good friends with stunt, but i don't think you've read all the comments onlyme.

i have not/am not threatening anyone here and won't ever.

i was responding to comments that i would not say this in person and that, at one time, if you did you would get 'punched in the nose'.

all i'm saying is that i WOULD say what i have said in person (to stunt, you or anyone else). it is someone else's perogative if they want to try punching me. i don't know you or stunt and you guys don't know me so it is would be completely ridiculous to play key board tough guy.

onlyme, i have said i don't want to turn the thread into a pissing contest and i do have respect for this board and appreciate the vast knowledge displayed here by the likes of stunt and yourself. i call a spade a spade and sometimes people get offended by that, both in reality and on here. maybe, in some people's opinion, my communication skills suck but my intention is anything but provocation. i come here to learn things not get sidetracked with keyboard egos. i assure you i have the best intentions on this board and you can just take a quick look back at the thread and you will see that i have ignored a gossip section troll taking repeated shots at me because i DIDN'T want the thread to get buried in bull shit.

maybe you could point out what i have done to inflame and i will avoid it in future?
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« Reply #209 on: December 10, 2006, 08:50:31 PM »

i know you are good friends with stunt, but i don't think you've read all the comments onlyme.

i have not/am not threatening anyone here and won't ever.

i was responding to comments that i would not say this in person and that, at one time, if you did you would get 'punched in the nose'.

all i'm saying is that i WOULD say what i have said in person (to stunt, you or anyone else). it is someone else's perogative if they want to try punching me. i don't know you or stunt and you guys don't know me so it is would be completely ridiculous to play key board tough guy.

onlyme, i have said i don't want to turn the thread into a pissing contest and i do have respect for this board and appreciate the vast knowledge displayed here by the likes of stunt and yourself. i call a spade a spade and sometimes people get offended by that, both in reality and on here. maybe, in some people's opinion, my communication skills suck but my intention is anything but provocation. i come here to learn things not get sidetracked with keyboard egos. i assure you i have the best intentions on this board and you can just take a quick look back at the thread and you will see that i have ignored a gossip section troll taking repeated shots at me because i DIDN'T want the thread to get buried in bull shit.

maybe you could point out what i have done to inflame and i will avoid it in future?

I take the following you put as a threat. 

Quote
stunt, i assure you, i would have no problem at all stating what i have stated in person. in fact i am very much prepared to meet up and state it in person. if, then, you or anyone else are offended by what i say and want to punch me in the nose, please go ahead and do your best. invitation is actually a defence to assault so you have a green light to go ahead and make me accountable for my actions tough guy.

This case is close and back about Steve.  Stunt is my friend and have known him since 1989 or so.  He is one of the most honest people I know and if you knew who he really was and what he has done in the BB industry and his direct connection with BB then I am pretty sure you would read his posts with a more open opinion.  His memory sometime goofs up but most of the time it is remarkable.  Lets stay on with Steve.  I think even Stev would laugh at how long this thread is about this issue.
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« Reply #210 on: December 10, 2006, 09:04:53 PM »

I take the following you put as a threat. 

This case is close and back about Steve.  Stunt is my friend and have known him since 1989 or so.  He is one of the most honest people I know and if you knew who he really was and what he has done in the BB industry and his direct connection with BB then I am pretty sure you would read his posts with a more open opinion.  His memory sometime goofs up but most of the time it is remarkable.  Lets stay on with Steve.  I think even Stev would laugh at how long this thread is about this issue.


you're right, i have fell into the bullshit trap and taken things the wrong way.

apologies to you and stunt.

reeves, well i didn't know him at all and it is clear some here did (which is amazing). i can see how, knowing the man, they can take offence to what i have assumed about his personality. maybe i deserve a punch in the nose just for that.

i do like open debate though, where people just throw it all in there uninhibited by religion, politics, etc, but i guess you do NEED to get that balance with respect, especially when it comes to a deceased legend like Steve Reeves.
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« Reply #211 on: December 10, 2006, 09:05:59 PM »

Reeves carried just under 15% more lean body mass than the average "fit" man of his height and structure ...as do I. That assessment is based on about 10 years of research into, and analysis of, anthropometric data. I have degrees in mathematics and statistics, physics and engineering that allow such analysis. I don't mean to throw credentials around, I mention it merely to assure you that I'm no stranger to the scientific process or the analysis of data ...in fact, it's my "job".
0

Hmmm so your using engineering to understand a question of biology. So could you please enlighten some of us on  what your data is. Or did you do a bunch of drawing's in AUTOCAD.
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« Reply #212 on: December 10, 2006, 09:15:42 PM »

you're right, i have fell into the bullshit trap and taken things the wrong way.

apologies to you and stunt.

reeves, well i didn't know him at all and it is clear some here did (which is amazing). i can see how, knowing the man, they can take offence to what i have assumed about his personality. maybe i deserve a punch in the nose just for that.

i do like open debate though, where people just throw it all in there uninhibited by religion, politics, etc, but i guess you do NEED to get that balance with respect, especially when it comes to a deceased legend like Steve Reeves.

I knew you were a good man under that screen name.  I screw off more than anyone on these boards.  But this board is different to me.  I was brought up to respect my elders.  But when they are not only older but are true legends and have done things I can only dream about then I try to give as much respect as humanly possible.  To be able to know or talk to any legend is a honor.  And unless I see with my own eyes something that one of my legends do wrong then I will always put them on a pedestal.  Arnold was an idol of mine as a kid.  I got a chance to meet and work with him on several occassions.  Now my respect has lessen but not gone away.
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« Reply #213 on: December 11, 2006, 12:30:35 AM »

No need to apologize to me, Beast. I take no offense to what you stated to me whatsoever. (Thanks for your courtesy though.)

I got to admit that I do feel strongly against any unproven accusations directed against good people who are unable to offer a rebuttal in defense. And that statement is directed to life in general and not merely about this topic.

Steve definitely falls into that non-defensible jurisdiction.

A couple of Steve's real good friends are still among the living and I am doing my best to contact one that I know well and  get his "viewpoint" but may not have access to a computer to locate him for the next few weeks.



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« Reply #214 on: December 11, 2006, 02:26:28 AM »

However, for some people it does because strong positive role-models are necessary for drug-free beginners and intermediates. People need to know what is capable without drugs so they know where to set ambitious, but realistic, goals for themselves ...without the use of drugs.

Very true, and I can surely relate to that need to be able to relate to an attainnable goal, via a positive role-model that sets the standard.
Unfortunately, eventually in life you learn not all is as it seems. Try finding a sport that hasnt been in the headlines in the past 3 decades for doping. Never mind other extra curricular activities our heroes indulge in...

One thing is for sure, although I wasnt around then, Steve Reeves is known as a real gentleman that conducted himself as the dignified role model, and athlete/actor he was, so was Reg Park, and I'm led to believe many others of their day. I'm pretty sure they werent perfect, but they kept the dirty laundry indoors. And thats how we like to remember our heroes, as dignified, distinguished individuals we can attempt to emulate.

I agree with onlyme, S. Reeves probably did take/experiment, but it wasnt what made him, it just doesnt appear that way.
One thing that did cross my mind (pure conjecture), when Reeves filmed in Italy, and other locations, what with hectic schedules, lack of good nutritional foods, shortage of training equipment, then, it would make sense to take substances to hold on to muscle and conditioning. To clarify, I'm not trying to make up stories, as I have no idea as to what I'm talking about(I wasnt there, and I didnt know them), but it would make sense towards the end of his filming career, for maintenance purposes, to indulge in hrt.

Either way, his physique was/is the standard, and I havent seen it duplicated, and its got a great deal to do with his perfect structure and genetics.
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« Reply #215 on: December 11, 2006, 02:22:00 PM »

Anyone got that Reeves book? Building a classic physique the natural way? i saw it on amazon for 90 bucks. where can you get it normal price?
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« Reply #216 on: December 11, 2006, 03:45:50 PM »

Yes, I have that book and it was personally sent to me by the Man himself
(in Valley Center), in 1999. I kept the hand printed envelope, too. I paid
around twenty bucks for it. It was also signed (autographed) personally by
Steve.

Stunt, have a nice, relaxing time out at sea. And don't let some steroid-
enduced monster fish pull you overboard (you better not Marine...).

Beast, your bites didn't have rabies but your apologies were dignified. Just
realize some of us oldtimers like to protect others good name, especially when
it was/is deserved, like in Steve's case.

I'll stick with everything I said and wrote 100%.

Only, do you still turn wrists once in awhile??
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« Reply #217 on: December 11, 2006, 03:47:08 PM »

how can i get the book Jay? it's such a shame that it's out of print.
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Jay Em
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« Reply #218 on: December 11, 2006, 04:29:23 PM »

You should be able to get it STILL from the Steve Reeves International
Society, run by George Goates.

But I'm not sure. There was suppose to be a Reeves Room somewhere up
in LA, dedicated to his memory...with alot of keepsakes. But I've never heard
mention of it anywhere since his death in 2000.
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« Reply #219 on: December 11, 2006, 07:12:15 PM »

Jay, ship still in dock so I gotta ask ya this.......

Who was the young guy I met at the Arnold a couple of years back that was in the Steve Reeves Society Booth and bore a similar look to Steve and was quite proud of it? Do you know whom I am speaking of?
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« Reply #220 on: December 11, 2006, 07:33:20 PM »

While on the subject of Reeves ....... in 1954 he appeared in a major Hollywood movie called ATHENA with Jane Powell and Debbie Reynolds that was about a family of health nuts living in a nice house above Hollywood.

The storyline has Steve training for some movie bodybuilding contest and winning it at the very end

Steve was probably in top shape in that film if I recall correctly. I think it's still available in VHS format and will give you a good idea of Steve's prime condition back in those days (or damn close to it).

Nothing like the muscle on today's contenders.
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« Reply #221 on: December 11, 2006, 10:28:54 PM »

Boy, that's a puzzle Stunt on that society booth question of yours.

I don't have an earthly clue.

Obviously, it wasn't George Goates...

________________________ ________

And thanks for that info on ATHENA. I'm definately going to have to check it
out.
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« Reply #222 on: December 11, 2006, 10:59:51 PM »

Jay, Steve personally corrected me about the name of his first feature film and it is now available on DVD for some unknown reason.

It's called "Jail Bait" and really not too good and was one of Ed Wood's original films. (1954)

It would be interesting to find out how Steve got that part and then went directly to Athena.
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« Reply #223 on: December 12, 2006, 06:06:13 PM »

Quote
Hmmm so your using engineering to understand a question of biology. So could you please enlighten some of us on  what your data is. Or did you do a bunch of drawing's in AUTOCAD.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there, and your sarcasm tells me that you probably don't have the education or ability to understand this subject fully. But you probably deserve some credit for being familiar with a software program that most first-year engineering students are at least familiar with. However, if you were familiar with engineering you'd probably also know that after first-year, most engineers (outside of some mechanical, civil and naval courses) actually use AUTOCAD very little.

But, for the benefit of the people reading this board who actually are interested in this subject and have the statistics background to understand it:  I did a regression analysis on population data. Such statistics are readily available and statistical analyses have been performed by others as well. I took anthropometric data from many sources and used the averages to estimate lean body mass based on height and structure. Then I used data from several studies of drug-free and drug-using lifters and adapted the regression to fit them as well.  The results show clearly that most people can add, at most, 25% lean body mass before the use of anabolic steroids is necessary.  Some individuals can exceed this, but they would be relative outliers on the Guassian distribution. Above that amount and anabolic steroid use becomes more and more likely. With regards to Dr. Harrison Pope's work with the fat-free mass index (FFMI), this would indicate that drug-free genetically elite bodybuilders can achieve a FFMI of about 25 before steroid use becomes almost a guarantee. In very rare cases, a FFMI of 26 has been achieved by drug-free lifters of heavier bone structure.

Interestingly, Reg Park had a FFMI of about 26 in 1951 (when he first won the Mr. Universe), but he had a relatively heavy bone structure. Reeves FFMI was closer to 25, on a lighter bone structure. Grimek, Delinger and Eiferman also hovered around 25-26. In the early 1960s bodybuilders commonly exceeded this.
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« Reply #224 on: December 12, 2006, 07:03:47 PM »

Casey, in relation to Reg Park, are you performing your analysis of him at his peak or at the early stages of his career?
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