STEVE REEVES- behind the scenes (only for getbiggers,,only on getbig!)

[GoneAway]

Exactly. It's all hearsay until we can prove that what he's saying is true, in which case, if we posted our "facts" we would be castrated by the same people who aren't in the know (just like we were before we found out the truth.)

gh15 could be telling the truth or lying, but arguing will solve very little without extremely solid evidence to support either case.

[NarcissisticDeity]

i suggest you ask yourself why no bodybuilders actually coming on here to argue on your behalf,,only few kids
i am not in arguments with you as i told you i like reeves too but the truth is stronger than anything my friend,,the fact of me answering you is to begin with showing that something is wrong with me youre a kid

This has NOTHING to do with me or anyone who is supporting me , this whole thread is about you and your claims of personal information that Steve Reeves experimented with steroids & insulin.

You refuse to provide ounce of proof , instead you offer up a lame story , you go about how heavily involved Dr John Zeigler was with Ciba labs in the 1940s and he didn't even start working with Ciba until 1954

You keep saying you like Reeves , but your outright contradictory statements about his natural status are a slap in the face of his bodybuilding legacy. you say you're not into arguments , its obvious you're not into evidence either .

[myseone]

5'10 8% completely drug and supp free can eat from the morning to the evening and from the evening to the morning and he wont see the number 200lb on the scale while remaining 8%. he might see the number 190 with 8%,, IF he got superman genetics which is not the case in 99% of the cases.

160-185 at 8% (or less) in majority of cases.

I think in general you are right, but you do have your rare individuals that exceed this without drugs and supps. Not bragging but I have been able to achieve a bodyweight of 205lb at 5ft 11in without drugs or supplements. With supplements (Creatine and Glutamine) up to 220lbs lightly clothed. At single digit body fat, aprox 6-7 percent.

With respect, I would argue that it is possible to achieve for some people.

[gh15]

I think in general you are right, but you do have your rare individuals that exceed this without drugs and supps. Not bragging but I have been able to achieve a bodyweight of 205lb at 5ft 11in without drugs or supplements. With supplements (Creatine and Glutamine) up to 220lbs lightly clothed. At single digit body fat, aprox 6-7 percent.

With respect, I would argue that it is possible to achieve for some people.

5'11 205 ~ 5'10 198 (~7lb/inch for male) = NOT possible 100% completely natural  with no supp while remaining at 8% no clothes on. (in the morning after 8 hour sleep no food in system with one single glass of water drank before weighin,, no clothes/shoes/pump which =3-8lb)

thus you were 5'11 ~198~7% which is parallel and will look very much alike as 5'10~190~8% = POSSIBLE COMPLETELY NATURALLY as i said before if ones have extra ordinary response to training which i assume you have if you were at those numbers at this body fat. 5'11 198lb 7% bf is SUPERB physiqe and only minority of trainees will be able to achieve it naturally.

guys you need to pay attention to the way i write and to the small details i put in. they are exteremly important. when you see the 5'7 guys in the bronx weighin 220 they are not 8% they are sitting at a good 18-20% bodyfat and in most cases been working out in the past with the intake of supplements and in many cases trial periods with hormones.

now as i said ,,again,, to the narcistst kid from mahem that loves reeves. every single word that come out of my mouth is truth. i provided more facts about the time period of the 40s and its hormonal/drug experiemtns in comparisson to what you provided (look in the first thread+official article i provided inorder to find it). i see this as a mute argument to make as i said in past posts of mine ON THIS THREAD. i will do you one last favor and repeat what i said in bold with explentaions:

1. ziegler did not work at ciba during the 40s,,he worked FOR ciba experiementing with athletes and few other individuals who had the means. ALL THROUGH THE 40S. you dont have to be officially employed by a company to work for it and experiemting for it. it is done BEHIND THE SCENES (look at the name of this thread!)   in many places with contracting out for research. ziegler was infamous for working with athletes and ESPECIALLY bodybuilders to achieve progress of the human physiqe. you must remember that within 10 years post the 1946 he officially created a drug by the name of DIANABOL. if you take your ass off the computer and research a little you will find out that any drug has been researched for years upon years before it goes out to the market. ziegler was experiemtngin with rough version of testosterone and its derivatives for years before he actually OFFICIALLY brought it out for the every day shmoe to use it and started to market it for the GENERAL PUBLIC. OFFICIALLY IS THE KEY WORD IN THE ABLOVE PARAGRAPH .

2. only the olympic AMERICAN team started using hormones OFFICIALLY IN post 1952. the bodybuilder steve reeves was experiementing with them all through the 40s

3. the bodybuilder steve reeves was experiemnting with insulin and dnp in addition to testosterone in rough version of its development. he not only experiemnted with test but also the other products mentioned which were available past 1930 to any one and every one.

4. the 30s and 40s were for testosterone what the 90s and 2000s are for igf1lr3. (i stopped counting how many guys now days coming to me for advice tellin me they are natural and only using igf1lr3 ) only diff is testosterone works a hell of a lot better! it is natural to the body and can maintain its potency through synthetic formulations. it is the most natural compound to the body you will ever find,,,indeed la cour is right in many ways saying to the world he is "natural" during the 30s and 40s ziegler who was a doctor, and an athlete himself that loved bodybuilding, had to chose someone to experiement on in his clinic beside himself. someone marketable that trains hard and is a bodybuilder in all essense of the word (not to forget! the drug dianabol/testosterone was supposed to be mainly an athlete boost,, an "extra something" made mainly for athletes,, so what could be better than chosing an athlete,, and what an athlete could be better than an athlete with the love and marketable look for bodybuilding). reeves was the chosen one.
and to the ones who say "the glue" (not under no IFBB but under himself as a bodybuilding entrepenour "wanna be" and oh he sure became one ) had nothing to do with the pick up of reeves,,you dont know what youre talking bout willys

5. as you can see no bodybuilders come to argue your points. the reason is US bodybuilders know it to be true because we know what it is to be 215 at 5-6%. ask heath


i like the getbig board and i try to put some sense in your brain which will not work with you so i see it as mute point to argue anymore.

now you can go on and bring back the kids to argue your points again,,i think you are not trying to persuade me,,you are trying to persuade yourself. thats the sad thing but its ok it teaches you something about bodybuilding so its good.

[jwb]

Reeves was on gear.

He was the levrone of his time taking lots of time off training and then getting into shape superfast.

Had superb genetics though...

[JPM]

Actually Reeves served in the US army during WWII, where he contracted malaria in the Philippines. So I don't believe he was indulging with gear, or anything like that, while in the service. And you said all through the '40's, which would mean that Reeves started when he was 14 years old, in 1940.  In his first Mr America win ('47) he narrowly beat out Eric Peterson (all the golden boy qualities of Reeves) by a half a point. Peterson must have missed the conspiracy train, which involved The Brain, the Glue and The Golden Boy, by that loss.

 gh15 may want to list his source of information if he expects to be taken seriously. A complete dossier, verifying names of persons, places and dates involved with Reeves drug taking, for example. These  documents would be helpful. If gh15 had the good grace to identify himself, rather than the cowardly manner in which he hides behind a false name, than there might be a chance that someome may believe him. Otherwise he is just another babbling, self absorbed, attention seeking idiot on the net. Someone who  feels the need to slander and give false witness against the good character of others. Good Luck.

[NarcissisticDeity]

5'11 205 ~ 5'10 198 (~7lb/inch for male) = NOT possible 100% completely natural  with no supp while remaining at 8% no clothes on. (in the morning after 8 hour sleep no food in system with one single glass of water drank before weighin,, no clothes/shoes/pump which =3-8lb)

thus you were 5'11 ~198~7% which is parallel and will look very much alike as 5'10~190~8% = POSSIBLE COMPLETELY NATURALLY as i said before if ones have extra ordinary response to training which i assume you have if you were at those numbers at this body fat. 5'11 198lb 7% bf is SUPERB physiqe and only minority of trainees will be able to achieve it naturally.

guys you need to pay attention to the way i write and to the small details i put in. they are exteremly important. when you see the 5'7 guys in the bronx weighin 220 they are not 8% they are sitting at a good 18-20% bodyfat and in most cases been working out in the past with the intake of supplements and in many cases trial periods with hormones.

now as i said ,,again,, to the narcistst kid from mahem that loves reeves. every single word that come out of my mouth is truth. i provided more facts about the time period of the 40s and its hormonal/drug experiemtns in comparisson to what you provided (look in the first thread+official article i provided inorder to find it). i see this as a mute argument to make as i said in past posts of mine ON THIS THREAD. i will do you one last favor and repeat what i said in bold with explentaions:

1. ziegler did not work at ciba during the 40s,,he worked FOR ciba experiementing with athletes and few other individuals who had the means. ALL THROUGH THE 40S. you dont have to be officially employed by a company to work for it and experiemting for it. it is done BEHIND THE SCENES (look at the name of this thread!)   in many places with contracting out for research. ziegler was infamous for working with athletes and ESPECIALLY bodybuilders to achieve progress of the human physiqe. you must remember that within 10 years post the 1946 he officially created a drug by the name of DIANABOL. if you take your ass off the computer and research a little you will find out that any drug has been researched for years upon years before it goes out to the market. ziegler was experiemtngin with rough version of testosterone and its derivatives for years before he actually OFFICIALLY brought it out for the every day shmoe to use it and started to market it for the GENERAL PUBLIC. OFFICIALLY IS THE KEY WORD IN THE ABLOVE PARAGRAPH .

2. only the olympic AMERICAN team started using hormones OFFICIALLY IN post 1952. the bodybuilder steve reeves was experiementing with them all through the 40s

3. the bodybuilder steve reeves was experiemnting with insulin and dnp in addition to testosterone in rough version of its development. he not only experiemnted with test but also the other products mentioned which were available past 1930 to any one and every one.

4. the 30s and 40s were for testosterone what the 90s and 2000s are for igf1lr3. (i stopped counting how many guys now days coming to me for advice tellin me they are natural and only using igf1lr3 ) only diff is testosterone works a hell of a lot better! it is natural to the body and can maintain its potency through synthetic formulations. it is the most natural compound to the body you will ever find,,,indeed la cour is right in many ways saying to the world he is "natural" during the 30s and 40s ziegler who was a doctor, and an athlete himself that loved bodybuilding, had to chose someone to experiement on in his clinic beside himself. someone marketable that trains hard and is a bodybuilder in all essense of the word (not to forget! the drug dianabol/testosterone was supposed to be mainly an athlete boost,, an "extra something" made mainly for athletes,, so what could be better than chosing an athlete,, and what an athlete could be better than an athlete with the love and marketable look for bodybuilding). reeves was the chosen one.
and to the ones who say "the glue" (not under no IFBB but under himself as a bodybuilding entrepenour "wanna be" and oh he sure became one ) had nothing to do with the pick up of reeves,,you dont know what youre talking bout willys

5. as you can see no bodybuilders come to argue your points. the reason is US bodybuilders know it to be true because we know what it is to be 215 at 5-6%. ask heath


i like the getbig board and i try to put some sense in your brain which will not work with you so i see it as mute point to argue anymore.

now you can go on and bring back the kids to argue your points again,,i think you are not trying to persuade me,,you are trying to persuade yourself. thats the sad thing but its ok it teaches you something about bodybuilding so its good.

The more you type the more you incriminate yourself . some of your facts that are outright wrong.

1) Ziegler wasn't associated with Ciba until 1954
2) Ziegler didn't ' offcially ' create Dianabol until 1958 NOT 1956 like you claim
3) Ziegler was NOT a doctor as you claim ' during the 30s and 40s ziegler who was a doctor ' he didn't finish college until 1942 and after that he went into the Marine Corps and served in World War II and he didn't attend medcial school until after the war , so your claim he was a doctor in the 1930s is again WRONG

Now ontop of being outright wrong on those points , you've still have NOT provided one ounce proof what so ever , and you contradict youself in your other posts. these are your quotes

steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.


How can we consider Reeves to be natural when according to you he used testosterone/pre-testosterone tablets , isulin and now DNP? thats a direct and total contradiction , at first you just claimed Reeves did testosterone , then a few posts later you claimed pre-testosterone tablets and a few posts later you added insulin and finally we're up to DNP , you keep changing your story. whats next snythol?

You claimed he could be called natural yet again you elude that his life was cut short " if im not mistaken reeves died at age 73? unnatural death right?  thats not the healthiest thing ive seen in the around the block my friend " by all his hormone use?


You claim his use was nothing to write home about and he could be called natural and then make this statement ' it is exteremly hard to be 6 feet 215 with 5-6% natural. as i said many times before original genetics got nothing to do with size and conditioning achieved through training and "supp". ' you claim his used was so small that he could be considered natural and then go onto say its almost impossible to be 6'0" and 215lbs without ' supp ' so which is it? is he natural or could his 215lbs only be built with use?  

This is yet another one of your gems " stevve reeves as i said before ONLY experiemnted with steroid use,,only later in his movie career he was more of so called juicer. so yes he was natural in his competetive career '  now you're claiming he was more of a so called ' juicer ' durring his movie career , despite the fact the he was actually smaller durring this time lol in his competitive heyday he was 215lbs , durring his film career the directors & producers had him drop weight because he was litteraly dwarf his costars , he was down to 187lbs for his movie roles , so this is once again contradictory to your claim he could be called natural at his biggest and he was more of a juicer at his smallest lol

You're story his full of holes , contradictions and outright lies , couple that with the fact that you've still yet to provide one-single-ounce of proof and its easy to come to the conclusion that your full of shit !  

[gh15]

if i put my name out my career will be over my friend,,so you see how good it is to stay annonymousousous

there are "friends" of mine that are sitting with fists and smoke coming out of their ears when reading me. the truth shall set you free! and i chose this route called getbig. it is safe,, it has the right crowd that wanna hear about REAL bodybuilding,,and i chose it over mayhem because i didnt consider mahem a bodybuilding board and the steroid boards already know it.

jpm, when i said read my words carefully i meant it! all through the 40s can be from 1940 to 1950 and in between i did not state date and time because for date and time i would have to be there and as i said none of us was there age 14 is not the key here,, the key here is that steve reeves pre competition and during competition experiemented with hormones wether you get angry by it or not. 10 years is a very long time.

in bodybuilding you dont just pop out of no where,,it never happen this way!,,look at how long the kids kuclo and that other english kid working with drugs inorder to achieve decent national competetive physiqe. it involves a lot of quality time in the gym that is done PRE EXPOSURE.

 today it is not much of a hard work due to the enourmous drugs we surround ourselves with,,,,then, during the 30s 40s and 50s it was a lot of hard work in the gym mixed with experiemting with hormones through trial and error method.

now,, i dont come here and discover a new america,,,i just state it and clarify it for the average joe. if you want to become a bodybuilder you GOTTA  do what it takes and it takes more than just lifting weights and eat chiken and brown rice. was true then and still true now. we are humans we all look somewhat alike while training naturally (yes even samoans ) and we whole have a complete diff look when we go on hormones (pay attention us at the higher level of bodybuilding look the same!)

steve reeves had the "inbetween look" because as i said before he ONLY experiemnted and did not take the doses larry, arnold, dorian and myself included were/are taking (ranging from ave to high) he only EXPERIEMNTED. he was the BEGGINING of what known as MODOERN BODYBUILDING,,,it dont mean he would win every competition it dont mean he would become the best,,,it only mean he was the beggining of ron coleman thus considered by many INCLUDING me to be natural.

end

[gh15]

another thing,,if what i said was not 100% true it would be gone and erased LONG TIME ago. pay attention to the section it is in !

erasing it now by a mod that is a friend of yours wont change the fact every one read it consistently and it is now on 2 other boards

there are other proffessional bodybuilders and gurus on this board. they got to be proffessional by specific methods that is known to us who have pro cards. the only debaters are few clowns that i gestimate sit at age 19-23,,clowns i try to help,,silly me

[NarcissisticDeity]

another thing,,if what i said was not 100% true it would be gone and erased LONG TIME ago. pay attention to the section it is in !

erasing it now by a mod that is a friend of yours wont change the fact every one read it consistently and it is now on 2 other boards

there are other proffessional bodybuilders and gurus on this board. they got to be proffessional by specific methods that is known to us who have pro cards. the only debaters are few clowns that i gestimate sit at age 19-23,,clowns i try to help,,silly me

Oh there is NO ifs involved , you're dead wrong about Ziegler being a doctor in the 1930s , about him working for Ciba in the 1940s , about Dianabol being made in 1956 ! you're dead wrong and the mods don't care about your bullshit claims.

And what ironic is if you truly had evidence of your claims all you'd have to do it post it and shut me up , but your silence speaks volumes 

You say you like Reeves and then come on here and outright lie to impress everyone with your suposed knowlege but you make yourself look like an idiot by making such outrageous claims with zero evidence .

[gh15]

you are playing a word game. it is typical of guys that have nothing to do with bodybuilding. i said ziegler was a doctor during the 40s and you read the sentences as you chose to,,you take advantage that my english written ability is only 9 out of 10 and not 10 out of 10 anything i write about the steve reeves era belong between 1930-mid 50s. any book nerd knows dianabol was available commercially in 1956

you sound like a typical mayhem kid from the pms i get about you. you are premitive in your thoughts and even with my broken english which is perfect as any one can tell,,, i bring a point out better than you.

i never try to impress anyone i already got my pro card and i know what it takes.

again,,if this was that mahem board you would bann me although i am the reason you are big,,(if you are which i severly doubt that you are anything but a fan).  reality dont belong in mahem,,,here you cant do nothin about it

the only reason i answer you now is because it makes it interesting and funny to me that you sit there and arguing with me,,youre a joke

[bmacsys]

 the truth is stronger than anything my friend

That is why we know you are full of hot air.

[NarcissisticDeity]

you are playing a word game. it is typical of guys that have nothing to do with bodybuilding. i said ziegler was a doctor during the 40s and you read the sentences as you chose to,,you take advantage that my english written ability is only 9 out of 10 and not 10 out of 10 anything i write about the steve reeves era belong between 1930-mid 50s. any book nerd knows dianabol was available commercially in 1956

you sound like a typical mayhem kid from the pms i get about you. you are premitive in your thoughts and even with my broken english which is perfect as any one can tell,,, i bring a point out better than you.

i never try to impress anyone i already got my pro card and i know what it takes.

again,,if this was that mahem board you would bann me although i am the reason you are big,,(if you are which i severly doubt that you are anything but a fan).  reality dont belong in mahem,,,here you cant do nothin about it

the only reason i answer you now is because it makes it interesting and funny to me that you sit there and arguing with me,,youre a joke

Your information is a joke , you've been caught in a handfull of lies already , this is your direct quote ' during the 30s and 40s ziegler who was a doctor '  you're outright wrong he was NOT a doctor in the 1930s as you claim , he didn't even start medschool until the mid 1940s . so I read the sentences as you type them , and I point out your numerous lies .


Dianabol wasn't even created until 1958 I don't care what you say , and when it was no one outside of York knew what it was or what it even did , and Zeigler himself at the time didn't even know how well they worked until much trial and error when working with Bill March slowly on a month to month basis did they finally learn how much they really worked .

The only reason you keep responding is because you're trying to save face , because you know damn well you're wrong and I've proved you wrong . your story is nonsense and contradictory , your claims about Steve Reeves are fanciful lies and a slap in the face of a bodybuilding icon who accomplished more naturally than you could ever hope to on all your cocktails .

[gh15]

if anything i said was wrong it would not be in the history section. if anything i said was wrong it would be deleated and gone long ago. if anything i said was not true,,,you would not try to persuade yourself so hard,,im surprized you havent brought richard jones yet to help you bring out your point of view you got a big problem when you try to talk bodybuilding to a bodybuilder,,next time try the average joe.

you made steve reeves look like a heavy user  with out a single backup from a guru,,getbig expert,,or 5 "blue star" individuals,,thats sad for a fan to do. if i didnt know better i would think that yo uare that adnonis guy,,but even he got some brains to know when enough is enough

drugs are being experiemented every day. drugs were are and will be experiemnted every day untill their commercial availability for years to come. ziegler was a doctor and an athlete during the 40s,,nothing stood in his way and any moron from one look at reeves can tell he was on. the reason i give him the title natural is because he wasnt on long enough and high enough to make a difference. he was the BEGGINING

steve reeves was the beggining,, reg,,bill,,larry,,were the continuation,,nubret and zane were when you couldnt hide it no more,,and labrada and ray were when drug use was like eating popcorn in a movie theatre.

always ask yourself how come no PROFFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER come here to back you up. not untill now as of yet! i dont back you up i make a joke of you everytime you open your mouth and you make a joke of reeves the longer you go on,,but hey feel free



*what is lol i see this" lol" in many of the wirtten comments out of this kid mouth

** "he didn't even start medschool until the mid 1940s . so I read the sentences as you type them " 

this is a good example how you take reality out of context. look at when steve reeves competed. mid 40s,,,now i got a mission for you,,,go and interact with med school guys/girls now days,,,half of them work for UG labs as "chemist" along usa and many of them experiemnting with diff researches,,ofcourse they continue when they officially become doctors or whatever other occupation they chose in the medical field.

you are failing in seeing the RISE of steve reeves that is HIGHLY connected with the rise of DOCTOR ziegler. stever reeves competed at his best when ziegler was researching and experiementing at his best. steve reeves was NOTHING before he started experiemnting,,see pictures of him from age 14-16. he was nothing but a skinny boney boy with little muscle mass and lot of potential due to good frame and bone structure (very good ribcage)  and ofcourse good face. thats sums up the reason for his choice as a center of a "revolution" later on during the 40s called MODERN BODYBUILDING.

*** one more thing,,are you um how do i say this here um,,,are you a homo sexual? (dont take it too hard im just playin with you )

[Heywood]

According to John Fair of Auburn University, (Isometrics or Steroids? Exploring New Frontiers of Strength in the Early 1960s, published in the Journal of Sports History, Vol 20 #1, Spring 1993), there does not appear to be any record of Ziegler experimenting with testosterone until 1954, when he moved to Olney, and specialized in the treatment of seriously injured patients. 

Ziegler's initial contact with York was in 1954, and he worked his off days for CIBA, which was supplying him with experimental amounts of testosterone.  CIBA also provided him with books and records from Germany where similiar experiments were carried out by the Nazis. 

Fair reports that according to Grimek, Ziegler's first application of testosterone was in treating an appendectomy patient, then a burn victim, and even administered doses to himself.

Bill Starr states that Ziegler traveled with the York team to Vienna in 1954 for the World Championships.  Ziegler was very gregarious and joined in with the Russians to drink vodka during the evenings.   During these drinking bouts, Ziegler learned that the Russians were using isometrics and experimenting with a new strength-enhancing drug.

Starr states (IM, 7/2005) that "what he learned there [Vienna] set in motion events that ultimately changed strength training, bodybuilding and competitive sports forever."

[NarcissisticDeity]

if anything i said was wrong it would not be in the history section. if anything i said was wrong it would be deleated and gone long ago. if anything i said was not true,,,you would not try to persuade yourself so hard,,im surprized you havent brought richard jones yet to help you bring out your point of view you got a big problem when you try to talk bodybuilding to a bodybuilder,,next time try the average joe.

you made steve reeves look like a heavy user  with out a single backup from a guru,,getbig expert,,or 5 "blue star" individuals,,thats sad for a fan to do. if i didnt know better i would think that yo uare that adnonis guy,,but even he got some brains to know when enough is enough

drugs are being experiemented every day. drugs were are and will be experiemnted every day untill their commercial availability for years to come. ziegler was a doctor and an athlete during the 40s,,nothing stood in his way and any moron from one look at reeves can tell he was on. the reason i give him the title natural is because he wasnt on long enough and high enough to make a difference. he was the BEGGINING

steve reeves was the beggining,, reg,,bill,,larry,,were the continuation,,nubret and zane were when you couldnt hide it no more,,and labrada and ray were when drug use was like eating popcorn in a movie theatre.

always ask yourself how come no PROFFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER come here to back you up. not untill now as of yet! i dont back you up i make a joke of you everytime you open your mouth and you make a joke of reeves the longer you go on,,but hey feel free



*what is lol i see this" lol" in many of the wirtten comments out of this kid mouth

** "he didn't even start medschool until the mid 1940s . so I read the sentences as you type them " 

this is a good example how you take reality out of context. look at when steve reeves competed. mid 40s,,,now i got a mission for you,,,go and interact with med school guys/girls now days,,,half of them work for UG labs as "chemist" along usa and many of them experiemnting with diff researches,,ofcourse they continue when they officially become doctors or whatever other occupation they chose in the medical field.

you are failing in seeing the RISE of steve reeves that is HIGHLY connected with the rise of DOCTOR ziegler. stever reeves competed at his best when ziegler was researching and experiementing at his best. steve reeves was NOTHING before he started experiemnting,,see pictures of him from age 14-16. he was nothing but a skinny boney boy with little muscle mass and lot of potential due to good frame and bone structure (very good ribcage)  and ofcourse good face. thats sums up the reason for his choice as a center of a "revolution" later on during the 40s called MODERN BODYBUILDING.

*** one more thing,,are you um how do i say this here um,,,are you a homo sexual? (dont take it too hard im just playin with you )

if anything i said was wrong it would not be in the history section. if anything i said was wrong it would be deleated and gone long ago. if anything i said was not true,,,you would not try to persuade yourself so hard,,im surprized you havent brought richard jones yet to help you bring out your point of view you got a big problem when you try to talk bodybuilding to a bodybuilder,,next time try the average joe.

You think the mods are going to moniter ever single word typed and research it and then delete it? get serious. you're surprised I haven't brought up Richard Jones? why? he has NOTHING to do with your claims about personally know Steve Reeves was on testosterone/pre-testosterone tablets , insulin and DNP . again thats another one of your deversionary tactics.

you made steve reeves look like a heavy user  with out a single backup from a guru,,getbig expert,,or 5 "blue star" individuals,,thats sad for a fan to do. if i didnt know better i would think that yo uare that adnonis guy,,but even he got some brains to know when enough is enough

Another outright lie. its you who are insisting without proof that Reeves was on a drug-cocktail , its YOU who claimed to have this personal information. and I don't know when enough is enough my other thread is 340 pages and I will continue to call you out on your bullshit as long as you keep typing it.

drugs are being experiemented every day. drugs were are and will be experiemnted every day untill their commercial availability for years to come. ziegler was a doctor and an athlete during the 40s,,nothing stood in his way and any moron from one look at reeves can tell he was on. the reason i give him the title natural is because he wasnt on long enough and high enough to make a difference. he was the BEGGINING

I noticed that you left out the part that Ziegler was a doctor in the 1930s which is a lie , now you're just saying it was during the ' 40s ' because you know you're wrong. and anyone can look at Steve Reeves and tell he was on ?   the man was 6'1" and weighed just 215lbs thats NOT very big for a man his height , lets say Paul Dillett was 215lbs how many people would be claiming he was ' on ' ? not many . and your again claim he could be considered natural because he wasn't on long enough or his dosages wern't high enough to make an impact , yet you contradict yourself by saying ' anyone can tell he was on ' and how its ' extremely hard for a man 6'0' to weigh 215lbs naturally ' which is it?  either the drugs are responsible for his size or they wern't?

steve reeves was the beggining,, reg,,bill,,larry,,were the continuation,,nubret and zane were when you couldnt hide it no more,,and labrada and ray were when drug use was like eating popcorn in a movie theatre.

always ask yourself how come no PROFFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER come here to back you up. not untill now as of yet! i dont back you up i make a joke of you everytime you open your mouth and you make a joke of reeves the longer you go on,,but hey feel free

You keep claiming Reeves was the begining , yet you've provided NO proof . and now you're further speculating on the drug use of Labrada & Ray unless you know firsthand this like your Reeves claims are nothing more than hearsay. and I don't need any PROFESIONAL BODYBUILDERS to back me up , no real Professional bodybuilder would slap the face of a great bodybuilding legend like Steve Reeves . and again this is called deflection , you're quilty of exactly what you're accusing me of , making Reeves look bad. I'm not contradicting his natural status you are , I'm not saying he used multi-drugs to build his physique you are. nice try but you've failed yet again.

*what is lol i see this" lol" in many of the wirtten comments out of this kid mouth

** "he didn't even start medschool until the mid 1940s . so I read the sentences as you type them "  

this is a good example how you take reality out of context. look at when steve reeves competed. mid 40s,,,now i got a mission for you,,,go and interact with med school guys/girls now days,,,half of them work for UG labs as "chemist" along usa and many of them experiemnting with diff researches,,ofcourse they continue when they officially become doctors or whatever other occupation they chose in the medical field.

Again you claim Ziegler was experimented with testosterone on Reeves and by backwards reasoning you're trying to tie the two together and you've failed . now seeing you know this for a fact , tie it all together , when did they meet ? how did they meet? when was the first time Reeves experimented? where did he experiment? seeing Reeves was west coast and Ziegler east coast. you make vauge claims with NO specifics. typical of those NOT in the know. stop trying to use examples of today as the what happened back then , if you have proof that he interned with Ciba before 1954 than provide it .

you are failing in seeing the RISE of steve reeves that is HIGHLY connected with the rise of DOCTOR ziegler. stever reeves competed at his best when ziegler was researching and experiementing at his best. steve reeves was NOTHING before he started experiemnting,,see pictures of him from age 14-16. he was nothing but a skinny boney boy with little muscle mass and lot of potential due to good frame and bone structure (very good ribcage)  and ofcourse good face. thats sums up the reason for his choice as a center of a "revolution" later on during the 40s called MODERN BODYBUILDING.

No you claim the RISE of Steve Reeves was HIGHLY connected with the rise of DOCTOR ZIEGLER , and you've yet to connect the two. Reeves retired in 1950 , and Ziegler didn't start working for Ciba until 1954 and he only started working there in 54 on his days off !! not as a full-time employee.  and in conjunction with Ciba he developed the worlds first anabolic steroid Dianabol in 1958 thats a full eight years after Reeves retired .

And Steve Reeves showed excellent development for a 16 year old , his was certainly ahead of his time and you claim he was a skinny boney boy , which judging by the pictrures is nonsense .

in closing stop with the bullshit ! provide proof of your claims that Reeves worked with Ziegler , experimented with testosterone/pre-testosterone tablets , insulin and DNP you're running a circular argument which is indicitive of people who don't have anything to work with.

*** one more thing,,are you um how do i say this here um,,,are you a homo sexual? (dont take it too hard im just playin with you )

Its ironic you should ask , because most IFBB professionals supplement their income by doing gay-for-pay , entertaining wealthy gay gentlemen to buy their drugs , and hey wait aren't you a ' pro ' bodybuilder? lol  

[NarcissisticDeity]

According to John Fair of Auburn University, (Isometrics or Steroids? Exploring New Frontiers of Strength in the Early 1960s, published in the Journal of Sports History, Vol 20 #1, Spring 1993), there does not appear to be any record of Ziegler experimenting with testosterone until 1954, when he moved Olney, and specialized in the treatment of seriously injured patients. 

Ziegler's initial contact with York was in 1954, and he worked his off days for CIBA, which was supplying him with experimental amounts of testosterone.  CIBA also provided him with books and records from Germany where similiar experiments were carried out by the Nazis. 

Fair reports that according to Grimek, Ziegler's first application of testosterone was in treating an appendectomy patient, then a burn victim, and even administered doses to himself.

Bill Starr states that Ziegler traveled with the York team to Vienna in 1954 for the World Championships.  Ziegler was very gregarious and joined in with the Russians to drink vodka during the evenings.   During these drinking bouts, Ziegler learned that the Russians were using isometrics and experimenting with a new strength-enhancing drug.

Starr states (IM, 7/2005) that "what he learned there [Vienna] set in motion events that ultimately changed strength training, bodybuilding and competitive sports forever."

Great post ! exactly where I've been getting my information.

[gh15]

are you over 16?  you have a lot of time on your hands. you already killed steve reputation and what left of it is long boring chasing and proving to yourself what ever you want to believe in. you are delussional my friend,,i do admire your fight for reeves but your knowledge of the every day life of a bodybuilder during the 40s or now is close to zero.

i stand by any word that came out of my mouth in regards to steve reeves,,and i am not willing to argue with you anymore because you are creating a very long posts for me to write. if you were any one i could consider as relevent to me or my reputation i would maybe call you on the phone and give you the fuckin number of an individual THAT I KNOW DIRECTLY AS A FUCKIN FRIEND from the ziegler's family.

you doubting my knowledge just show how ignorent you are. this thread is not erased and every one reads it and learn and that is what you cant stand,,that is why you keep on coming back here to try to change the mind of people who read it. you cant because the thread is very strong and logical.

you are the same person who buy waxy maize too....oh wait it does work,,, i forgot it doesnt = dextrose and malto,,, it is a magic super carb super fast complex carb,,,super high molecular absorbtion peptide called maltodextrin

you know,,,you sit there and living a lie. the reason im one of the pros that never come on mahem is because of kids like you,,you learn bodybuilding out of books insted of learning it out of your own body and THAT is why you never achieve anything in the sport. that is why you always look the same!

i know what labrada took and i know what ray took (not to the exact doses) they wont come on here to argue and they are alive. try to make any one with credebility coming to point me wrong. call lee he will gladly correct your complete distortion of  reailty and he will do it to yoru face too probably not in the public eye (due to labrada company

you are a shame for bodybuilding. there is one thing to live a lie but there is another competely diff pathetic thing to argue it!


a bodybuilder is one willing to take his phsyqe to a uniqe level of development. this uniqe level of develoment can only be achieved to its full potential by taking the hormones and stimulants available for the athlete in his/her era. and test and dnp and insulin were available in the 40s (wether rough forms or not dont matter) they were available,,infact they were available in some form or another since 1935 all over the world for experiemting with.

look for a new post about how to stay natural via hormones in the main motherboard. i will reveal secrets and i will demonstrate a source list that will shock you. it will be interesting even more interesting than this thread so you will have something to do with your free time.

[Chamorrita]

http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

[gh15]

http://www.slate.com/id/2113752/

the article below is the only one needed to look at to know that the fish stinks, the saying there is no smoke with out fire is true in this case. take a look at bodybuilders past 1940 and bodybuilders from pre 1925 to find the difference look wize,, size wize and muscle wize. if every one would go natural for real then you would see a lot more eugenes in a good case,,and joe shome bodybuilder in bad case around you.

the genetics of eugene was as good as reeves which tell you that it has nothing to do with genetics,,,it has to do with your response to hormones. marketabily,,,now thats a diff aspect of the sport,,for that you gotta have the over all look and genetics will count there because you will not see palumbo making good money from fitness/bodybuilding for the general public kind of endorsments while oharen will. learn the difference then aborb my style of writing,,and only then comply

article

Testosterone Dreams

Sex, doctors, and the male hormone


Testosterone dreams are the fantasies of hormonal rejuvenation, sexual excitement, and supernormal athletic performances that have been inspired by testosterone drugs since the “male hormone” testosterone was first synthesized in 1935. Shortly after testosterone was produced in a European laboratory, following a competition among three pharmaceutical companies, Time magazine reported that: “German and Swiss chemical laboratories are already prepared … to manufacture from sheep’s wool all the testosterone the world needs to cure homosexuals (and) revitalize old men.” Imaginative interpretations of the power of hormones—a word that was invented in 1905—proliferated for decades even before the eventual synthesis of testosterone. “Attempts have been made to explain even psychic processes such as emotions and states of mind through the increase or diminution or alterations of this or that gland,” as one scientist noted in Endocrinology in 1919. In short, hormonal substances were granted a power to shape personality and produce euphoric states that they have retained to this day.

Over the past seven decades, the growing use of testosterone and its derivatives, the anabolic-androgenic steroids, have demonstrated that many people around the world are interested in using testosterone products for a variety of purposes. These practices run the gamut from legal procedures such as “anti-aging” therapies, which employ these androgenic drugs with synthetic human growth hormone, to the illegal use of anabolic steroids by many bodybuilders, athletes, and some policemen, who view physical strength and aggression as requirements for performing on stage, in the stadium, or on the street. The use of synthetic testosterone as a sexual stimulant is also becoming increasingly common among older people who belong to a generation that increasingly regards sexual fulfillment as a lifelong entitlement.

Sexuality in conservative times
Testosterone became a charismatic drug during the 1940s because it promised sexual stimulation and renewed energy. Physicians described the optimal effect of testosterone drugs as a feeling of “well-being,” a term that has been used many times since the 1940s to characterize their positive effect on mood. In the early 1940s testosterone was hailed in pharmaceutical advertising as a mood-altering drug whose primary purpose was the sexual restoration and reenergizing of aging males. It appeared at that time that an inexpensive supply, widespread demand, and favorable medical opinion would soon produce a major market for testosterone products.

The first public advocate of testosterone therapy for aging men was the popular science journalist Paul de Kruif, whose manifesto The Male Hormone was published with some fanfare in 1945. Excerpted in Reader’s Digest and promoted by a full-page review in Newsweek (“Hormones for He-Men”), The Male Hormone was in some respects a prophetic book. The potential market for a rejuvenating male hormone seemed to be enormous: “How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’”

Testosterone did not become a mass market drug in the 1940s due to the sexual conservatism of most American physicians and the society they served. The belief that testosterone was a stimulating drug made it a potential threat to sexual morality as well as a promising therapy. Sensational coverage had given the male hormone a quasi-pornographic image that its female counterpart estrogen had never acquired. Commenting on testosterone’s unsavory reputation in 1946, Science Digest reported that “the uninformed continue to believe that the sole use of this innocent chemical is to turn sexual weaklings into wolves, and octogenarians into sexual athletes.”

The 1940s also saw the use of testosterone therapy as an experimental “cure” for homosexuality. The medical view of homosexuality as a type of endocrine deficiency made the use of testosterone propionate to reverse homosexual orientation virtually predictable. As one physician in 1940 put it: “If homosexuality is merely the result of an endocrine disturbance, the prospect for its cure must be excellent today.”

The idea that the bodies of homosexuals contained less male hormone and more female hormone than those of heterosexuals first appeared in 1935. By 1940 a number of investigators were confident enough in their ability to assay hormone levels to claim that homosexuality was rooted in abnormal sex hormone ratios rather than the psychological complexes hypothesized by Freud and others. “It seems,” one research team wrote, “that the constitutional homosexual has a different sex hormone chemistry than the normal male.” The fallacy of this therapeutic rationale became evident soon enough. Testosterone propionate combined with chorionic gonadotropin was not curing homosexuals, even in studies that encouraged belief in the drug and did not compare its effects with those of a placebo. In fact, it was becoming increasingly clear that androgens did not reverse but actually intensified homosexual libido, so that “sometimes instead of helping one gets a worsening of the condition.”

Prescription for women?
Testosterone drugs were also the favored pharmacological technique of the 1940s for treating sexual “frigidity” in women. Testosterone propionate ointment could be applied to the vulva or clitoris to increase genital sensitivity. Testosterone could be injected or pellets implanted under the skin to intensify libido. By 1943 testosterone propionate was reported to be in widespread use to treat women with sexual and other endocrine disorders. In 1947 a team of authors noted that over the previous decade “the effect of androgens in increasing libido in women has been an almost universal observation.” It appeared that androgens influenced libido in three ways, “causing a) a heightened susceptibility to psychic stimulations; b) increased sensitivity of the external genitalia, particularly of the clitoris and c) greater intensity of sexual gratification.” Perhaps the most interesting point about these scientifically primitive observations is that they have been repeatedly confirmed by later investigators."......

....The idea that women are the principal cause of sexual problems in marriage has been a staple of medical folklore for more than a century. Men were assumed to have a stronger sexual impulse than women. Over the many years the term was in circulation, the medical literature always assigned sexual “frigidity” exclusively to women. The disorder once known as male “impotence,” and that was eventually rechristened “erectile dysfunction,” never carried the same stigma of emotional deficiency and personal inadequacy. Impotence was an unfortunate physiological problem, while “frigidity” signaled a defective personality and a failure to live up to a wife’s marital obligations. Some (male) doctors knew perfectly well that a great deal of the “frigidity” displayed by wives was the direct result of sexually ignorant or indifferent husbands. A 1931 JAMA editorial, for example, argues that most female “frigidity” is caused by the emotional disinterest of husbands who had “obtained their premarital knowledge of the sexual act from intercourse with prostitutes” whose sexual gratification was of no interest to the paying customer.

The medical literature offered various cures for female “frigidity.” During the 1930s and 1940s these included the use of electricity to sensitize the vaginal mucous membrane: “The treatment consists in inserting a large vaginal electrode into the vagina, connecting it with the negative pole, while the positive pole is connected with a wet abdominal electrode, the galvanic current is allowed to pass for about ten minutes. Without disturbing the electrodes, we now give the sinusoidal-galvanic current for another ten minutes. No pain must be caused by the treatment.” Other commentators, as noted, recommended sexual education for the many husbands who appeared to know nothing about female sexual anatomy or psychology. It was during the 1930s that proposals to use hormonal substances to boost female sex drive began to appear with increasing frequency in the medical literature.

By the end of that decade synthetic testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone had become, in effect, experimental drugs that were being used for various (and, in retrospect, usually mistaken) clinical purposes. Megadoses sometimes amounting to thousands of milligrams that were intended to neutralize estrogen-driven breast cancers were one application. One of the unofficial dogmas of this early period was that the male hormone would sexually stimulate men and that estrogens would have a similar effect on women. Androgens were sometimes applied to the penis, while estrogens were applied to the clitoris. The discovery that testosterone sexually stimulated females thus came as a shock to the physicians who observed this effect. A 1941 paper reports the author’s reaction to this phenomenon in both young and old women: “My attention was first drawn to it by several elderly women who found the resurgence of libido distressing. The phenomenon is equally as striking among young women. A number of married women, who had considered themselves frigid, stated that after receiving the testosterone propionate injections they experienced a marked increase in coital gratification, culminating in an orgasm.”

[NarcissisticDeity]

are you over 16?  you have a lot of time on your hands. you already killed steve reputation and what left of it is long boring chasing and proving to yourself what ever you want to believe in. you are delussional my friend,,i do admire your fight for reeves but your knowledge of the every day life of a bodybuilder during the 40s or now is close to zero.

i stand by any word that came out of my mouth in regards to steve reeves,,and i am not willing to argue with you anymore because you are creating a very long posts for me to write. if you were any one i could consider as relevent to me or my reputation i would maybe call you on the phone and give you the fuckin number of an individual THAT I KNOW DIRECTLY AS A FUCKIN FRIEND from the ziegler's family.

you doubting my knowledge just show how ignorent you are. this thread is not erased and every one reads it and learn and that is what you cant stand,,that is why you keep on coming back here to try to change the mind of people who read it. you cant because the thread is very strong and logical.

you are the same person who buy waxy maize too....oh wait it does work,,, i forgot it doesnt = dextrose and malto,,, it is a magic super carb super fast complex carb,,,super high molecular absorbtion peptide called maltodextrin

you know,,,you sit there and living a lie. the reason im one of the pros that never come on mahem is because of kids like you,,you learn bodybuilding out of books insted of learning it out of your own body and THAT is why you never achieve anything in the sport. that is why you always look the same!

i know what labrada took and i know what ray took (not to the exact doses) they wont come on here to argue and they are alive. try to make any one with credebility coming to point me wrong. call lee he will gladly correct your complete distortion of  reailty and he will do it to yoru face too probably not in the public eye (due to labrada company

you are a shame for bodybuilding. there is one thing to live a lie but there is another competely diff pathetic thing to argue it!


a bodybuilder is one willing to take his phsyqe to a uniqe level of development. this uniqe level of develoment can only be achieved to its full potential by taking the hormones and stimulants available for the athlete in his/her era. and test and dnp and insulin were available in the 40s (wether rough forms or not dont matter) they were available,,infact they were available in some form or another since 1935 all over the world for experiemting with.

look for a new post about how to stay natural via hormones in the main motherboard. i will reveal secrets and i will demonstrate a source list that will shock you. it will be interesting even more interesting than this thread so you will have something to do with your free time.

are you over 16?  you have a lot of time on your hands. you already killed steve reputation and what left of it is long boring chasing and proving to yourself what ever you want to believe in. you are delussional my friend,,i do admire your fight for reeves but your knowledge of the every day life of a bodybuilder during the 40s or now is close to zero.


I'm well over 16 my friend  and how stupid can you be? I killed Reeves' reputation? lol you're the one claiming he's a liar and a multi-drug user and I killed his reputation? I knew you're fond of fantasy but this takes the cake.  you keep telling outright lies and I'm delusional? I may not know the every day life of a bodybuilder from the 40s but from your stories you sure as hell don't.  and when did we dicuss bodybuilding of now? and for you to guess about my knowlege of todays bodybuilding when I haven't commented on it is premature .


i stand by any word that came out of my mouth in regards to steve reeves,,and i am not willing to argue with you anymore because you are creating a very long posts for me to write. if you were any one i could consider as relevent to me or my reputation i would maybe call you on the phone and give you the fuckin number of an individual THAT I KNOW DIRECTLY AS A FUCKIN FRIEND from the ziegler's family.



Okay you want to stand by your outright lies & contradictions be my guest lol it shows how pathetic you are that you can't even admit when you're wrong. and you're NOT willing to ' argue ' with me anymore because you're having a trouble keeping your story straight and I keep pointing this out and will continue to do so .

Now this is what I've been waiting for lol your claim of how you know all this supposed inside information ! A FUCKIN FRIEND from the ziegler faimly !  what a lame and pathetic response , a friend of the faimly told you all this seceret information  you couldn't be a little more creative? you're a pathetic joke . your information entertaining your stupidty for a momment isn't firsthand , secondhand its thirdhand and you stated it so matter-of-factly 


you doubting my knowledge just show how ignorent you are. this thread is not erased and every one reads it and learn and that is what you cant stand,,that is why you keep on coming back here to try to change the mind of people who read it. you cant because the thread is very strong and logical.

I'm not just doubting your knowlege I proved it wrong , period.  the only strenght and logic in this thread isn't from YOU its from everyone laughing at your claims .


[you are the same person who buy waxy maize too....oh wait it does work,,, i forgot it doesnt = dextrose and malto,,, it is a magic super carb super fast complex carb,,,super high molecular absorbtion peptide called maltodextrin

you know,,,you sit there and living a lie. the reason im one of the pros that never come on mahem is because of kids like you,,you learn bodybuilding out of books insted of learning it out of your own body and THAT is why you never achieve anything in the sport. that is why you always look the same!

i know what labrada took and i know what ray took (not to the exact doses) they wont come on here to argue and they are alive. try to make any one with credebility coming to point me wrong. call lee he will gladly correct your complete distortion of  reailty and he will do it to yoru face too probably not in the public eye (due to labrada company

you are a shame for bodybuilding. there is one thing to live a lie but there is another competely diff pathetic thing to argue it!/b]

I've never been stupid enough to purchase any supplements with the sole exception of creatine and that worked , so I don't know what you're claiming here 

You claimed to be a pro I say based on your already proved outright lies I would say this is one as well , who cares about Mayhem ? I certainly don't and don't post there . and again you're assuming to know about me and my motivations and my accomplishments or lack there of in reguards to bodybuilding , and you know what they say about assumption. I'm in no way living in a fantasy world where all pros are 296lbs without the use of a cocktail of anabolics , HGH , IGF-1 , Insulin , plasma expanders and snythol , I'm NOT knew to bodybuilding and have followed it since 1985 when Lee Haney won his 2nd Mr Olympia , so stop assuming .

You don't know what Labrada or Ray took , thats more hearsay , you may have more of an educated guess about what they could have been taking but don't state again matter-of-factly you know for sure because your word isn't worth much after your contradictions & outright lies . and I don't need Ray or Labrada or anyone to confirm you're a liar I've done that all by myself.

a bodybuilder is one willing to take his phsyqe to a uniqe level of development. this uniqe level of develoment can only be achieved to its full potential by taking the hormones and stimulants available for the athlete in his/her era. and test and dnp and insulin were available in the 40s (wether rough forms or not dont matter) they were available,,infact they were available in some form or another since 1935 all over the world for experiemting with.

look for a new post about how to stay natural via hormones in the main motherboard. i will reveal secrets and i will demonstrate a source list that will shock you. it will be interesting even more interesting than this thread so you will have something to do with your free time.

See this is where you're contradicting yourself , you claim that one can ONLY reach his ' full ' potential by taking the hormones and stimulants , in your original claim you say Reeves could be considered natural because his use was nothing to write home about , it was so small that it didn't make much of a difference so he could still be labled as natural , now how can he reach his ' full ' potential if what he was using was so small it made no difference ? see this is where you can't keep your story straight lol and this is exactly why you're full of shit ( among other reasons )

And to be honest with you I personally feel Steve Reeves never reached his full potential , he retired at the age of just 24 because he won every major bodybuilding contest there was to win and he lacked challenges , can you imagine retiring at 24? he never reached the best he could ever be

And again you're working backwards on this one because the Germans synthesized testosterone than that means everyone did? nonsense and this is where your story falls apart , Dr John Ziegler didn't even learn about the use of testosterone in athletes until 1954 and the Russians were the ones who let him in on that little secrect , after learning this he returned to the United States he started using testosterone on himself and a few others and it had NO EFFECT and he abandoned the testing of testosterone , and then he created Dianabol in 1958 and even at that point he was having a hard time finding test subjects , there is a story where he went to York Gym and left a bowl full of Dianabol and when asked what they were supposed to do by the weighlifters , he said it was supposed to make you stronger and no one took any

This is documented his first real case study with a weightlifter/bodybuilder was Bill March and for months they wern't even sure it was the Dianabol responsile for his gains , they mistakingly thought it was hypnosis and isometrics , slowy after many months by process of elimination did they understand what was responsible for Marchs new found strenght and injuries

Your claims that Steve Reeves was one of the first bodybuilders handpicked by Dr Ziegler for testosterone experimentation is wrong , your claim that he was a Doctor in the 1930s is wrong , your claim Dianabol was in use in 1956 is wrong , your claim he used insulin simply because it was in use for legitmate use in the medical community in the 1930s is baseless , your claims he could be considered natural because he used sporatically and not much are contradictory to your claims the only way he could reach his full potential hsi by testosterone/pre-testosterone tablets, insulin and DNP , and all your information is based on what a ' faimly friend ' supposedly told you lol I'm laughing at your audacity & stupidty

before you try and impress some people with your knowlege at least research it beforehand this why you wont look so stupid when you make such outrageous claims , but you're used to looking stupid aren't you ? so you don't mind.

[gh15]

is there any one who still read this long thoughts you have? i cant read it it is too long,,,when i read between the lines i see the words creatine and such and i know you have no clue so its waste of my time.

1. you and bodybuilding have no connection
2. you write too long and shows too much of a fan style of writing rather than someone who knows his bodybuilding.
3. i will start paying attention the moment you bring a blue title individual to argue me. then i will try to pay attention because for real,, it is just too long of garbage to read,,,its like buying flex magazine

im sorry my friend you are just all over the place a.d.d like with out the back bone knowledge of bodybuilding-hormones relashionship.

[DK II]

is there any one who still read this long thoughts you have? i cant read it it is too long,,,when i read between the lines i see the words creatine and such and i know you have no clue so its waste of my time.

1. you and bodybuilding have no connection
2. you write too long and shows too much of a fan style of writing rather than someone who knows his bodybuilding.
3. i will start paying attention the moment you bring a blue title individual to argue me. then i will try to pay attention because for real,, it is just too long of garbage to read,,,its like buying flex magazine

im sorry my friend you are just all over the place a.d.d like with out the back bone knowledge of bodybuilding-hormones relashionship.

Lol, you're such a tool, gh15, it's not even funny anymore.
Next thing you tell us Marilyn Monroe had silicone tits.

What a burrito you are.

[bmacsys]

if i put my name out my career will be over my friend,,so you see how good it is to stay annonymousousous

What career? Why would this effect your job at Burgur King?

[DK II]

What career? Why would this effect your job at Burgur King?

hahaha, owned!