Federal Judge Orders End to Warrantless Wiretapping

[Dos Equis]

Actually BeachBum, Bush knew it was illegal. He's been advised of that many times and has indicated he'd do it anyway. He just attorney shops til he finds an attorney who will give a skewed enough interpretation, then, acts based on advise from counsel. In the end, he just points to faulty advise from counsel.   Personally, I don't think the wiretapping is as serious an offense as some of his other offenses which are most definitely impeachable. They do have grave implications though. He really should be brought to justice.

Who advised Bush many times that his wiretaps were illegal? 

He can't "attorney shop."  He has a finite group of counselors:  AG, U.S. Attorney, White House Counsel, etc.  If his counsel tells him his actions are legal then he cannot "know" his actions are illegal, particularly if Clinton did the same thing.  I'll be very interested to see if one or more appellate court judges agrees with Bush.

Bush hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment and doesn't need to be "brought to justice."  I know you believe he is a "psychopath" and the head of an "evil cabal," but you don't have any facts to support that opinion.   

[OzmO]

Who advised Bush many times that his wiretaps were illegal? 

He can't "attorney shop."  He has a finite group of counselors:  AG, U.S. Attorney, White House Counsel, etc.  If his counsel tells him his actions are legal then he cannot "know" his actions are illegal, particularly if Clinton did the same thing.  I'll be very interested to see if one or more appellate court judges agrees with Bush.

Bush hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment and doesn't need to be "brought to justice."  I know you believe he is a "psychopath" and the head of an "evil cabal," but you don't have any facts to support that opinion.   

We don't really think the AG, U.S, Attorney, White House Counsel, etc. didin't know what they were advising was illegal do we? These are top attorneis in their fields.  Of course they knew.  And they knew they could get away with it.

[Dos Equis]

We don't really think the AG, U.S, Attorney, White House Counsel, etc. didin't know what they were advising was illegal do we? These are top attorneis in their fields.  Of course they knew.  And they knew they could get away with it.

No they didn't.  They came up with a legal argument to justify warrantless wiretaps, just like Clinton's advisers did.  A federal judge disagreed.  I agree with the federal judge, but one or more appellate court judges might not.

[Deedee]

its not illegal.  its in a legal gray area.  this judge is an idiot, they should keep this program going. they are not listening to you talkin to your aunt may in Iowa, they only use to to listen to int'l phone calls with known or suspected terrorists.  besides, do you really thyink they give a shit about your phone calls. 

i dont understand why this gets everybody so pissed off

The first group of people that could ostensibly be targeted are journalists.  Once you have successfully squashed the journalists, the road is paved with gold for any corrupt government.  Doesn't anybody read history books.  Look at how swiftly successful the Third Reich was with this tactic.

[24KT]

Not only that, ...but who is to say that the information gathered will not be abused by current or future authorities? You may not be committing crimes, ...but how would you like your information sold to marketers? It's conceivable.

[Deedee]

I think Karl Rove, the DM genius, was already on top of that, years ago. 

[240 is Back]

Not only that, ...but who is to say that the information gathered will not be abused by current or future authorities? You may not be committing crimes, ...but how would you like your information sold to marketers? It's conceivable.

Very true.

I'd pay some serious $ for a list of everyone who's ever muttered, "But where can we get a cheaper website?"

[24KT]

Very true.

I'd pay some serious $ for a list of everyone who's ever muttered, "But where can we get a cheaper website?"

{LOL} Nothing like key words huh? 

[OzmO]

No they didn't.  They came up with a legal argument to justify warrantless wiretaps, just like Clinton's advisers did.  A federal judge disagreed.  I agree with the federal judge, but one or more appellate court judges might not.

I see.  Well in any event, I'm still aginst it.

[Dos Equis]

I see.  Well in any event, I'm still aginst it.

So am I.  I just don't make it more than what it is. 

[Deedee]

No they didn't.  They came up with a legal argument to justify warrantless wiretaps, just like Clinton's advisers did.  A federal judge disagreed.  I agree with the federal judge, but one or more appellate court judges might not.

Are you sure? There have been more than a few news stories published that indicate John Yoo was given the specific task by the Bush government of finding the loopholes to facilitate justification for surveillance outside of FISA.

[Dos Equis]

Are you sure? There have been more than a few news stories published that indicate John Yoo was given the specific task by the Bush government of finding the loopholes to facilitate justification for surveillance outside of FISA.

Deedee I'm not certain, because I wasn't privy to everything that was said behind closed doors, but a loophole in a law means you can engage in certain conduct without violating that law.  Nothing wrong with that.  People do it all the time.  I do it every year when I sit down with my tax lady and we try to figure out how we can give as little of my money as possible to the government.  In other words, we're looking for loopholes.   

[Deedee]

Loophole was my word, and perhaps the wrong one to use in this case. (I know what it means lol, and one day I'm sure my accountant will agree that my hair appointments should be write-offs). I was under the impression that the Bush government was aware that what they were doing was illegal, that the NYT sat on the story for a year, then when they finally ran the story, it was John Woo's task to write the backstory, i.e. find any lawyerly blather to explain away these covert activities. 

[Al-Gebra]

any lawyerly blather to explain away these covert activities. 

ain't nothing wrong with a little blather.