- As most people know, the IFBB makes rules as they go. There should be no reason Levrone should have been able to compete. Every other athlete had to have their contract and IFBB dues paid on time. They bent the rules for him and actually, every athlete who placed below him could file a lawsuit against the IFBB for allowing him to compete because there is no stipulation that if an athlete decides at the last minute to compete that he may do so by paying a fine. Also, every Weider athlete has a contract that states their contract may be terminated if..."your reputation is diminished by reason of, for example, without limitation, criminal conviction, involvement with drugs or other controlled substances, or any other conduct involving moral turpitude,..." If the IFBB wants to enforce rules then every Weider athlete needs to be tested for ALL controlled substances. The IFBB also always refers to its "rules," which to my knowledge, no athlete has ever been furninshed a copy and on the
official IFBB website, the "Rules" section has said "coming soon" for at least a year. How are any of the athletes to know what the official rules are if they have never been furnished a copy or given the resources to review them? Also, This is directly for the IFBB Constitution's Code of Ethics: "to oppose the use of banned substances and to compete drug-free" Jay should not be singled out.
- I am betting that Iron Jay is confident that he shouldn't or couldn't have failed the test and he is being blackballed by the IFBB and Weider for being an ISS Research sponsored athlete and beating Ronnie Coleman! This is getting stupid??? If he knew he took
them and did fail, why hire an attorney??? Just my .02 cents........
- I fail to understand why everyone going crazy about this? It's Joe's show. Its a part of his $100M per year corporation. ISS Research gets the Mr. O on their products, and he helps boost their sales. Joe, Aka the Bill Gates of Bodybuilding, is the doing the same thing you would do if it were your company. He doesn't have to say shit to the judges, because they know the score if this whole conspiracy theory is even true.
- I am a lawyer in Southern California and bodybuilder who would love to rep someone like a Jay Cutler. Word among our firm is he, as of last week, put a very strong firm under retainer and plans to win his case. Word is Cutler's lawyers plan to subpeona Wayne Demilia, the promoter.
- If this is true, Jay should leave things alone. Challenging the promoters doesn't sound like a very good career move to me. Shawn Ray survived a drug test DQ in which he lost the Arnold in the early '90s. He wrote it off and moved on. It was good for his career. Cutler should move on if he wants to be Mr. O one day. Remember all the people who challenged the IFBB and never placed in the money again. Cutler could easily win the case and lose his entire career. Shawn Ray was actually thinking of sueing the IFBB after he failed the drug test at the Arnold Classic in 1991. Shawn won the show, then he got DQ'ed. He failed along with 6 others. He didn't sue them though. We'll see what happens with Jay
- Is this a first, someone bringing the I.F.B.B. to court? And I wonder what Weider thinks of this whole thing, one of the competitors is standing up to them. I hope Jay wins, but its too bad it will probably end amiacably because of politcs
- Unlike Shawn Ray, who admitted there was a possibility that diurectics may has lingered in his system for a long time which caused him to fail. Cutler is claiming innocence. Ray would have sued having admitted using diuertics in the past. Cutler is taking the opposite claim; he's claiming he didnt use diuretics. and if he did, too bad, he should have had Chad Nichols, the bodybuilding guru, hook him up.
- I fail to see how Jay Cutler would fail the diurectic test. He knew, as many other competitors, which diurectics the IFBB tests for, and therefore would never have used them. For them to disqualify Jay is absolutely amazing. It seems there is a conspiracy theory out there, or something was wrong with the testing or samples. All competitors know which diurectics to use, and what not to use. What is really going on?
- I am not sure what testing all Weider athletes has to do with "their reputation being dimenished." It didn't say they couldn't do drugs. It said they shouldn't embarrass Weider (their employer). This is a standard employer/employee clause. Also, what did the athletes think they were being tested for? They've been tested for diuretics for years now. If Cutler got caught (as many others have before him), tough crap, he got caught and should deal with it. Finally, Joe Weider is very old and has very little to do with bodybuilding now. Ben Weider is so sick he didn't even show up at the Mr. O this year. Weider the company isn't as evil as most here seem to think. They (very generously) employee pro bodybuilders
though they don't get nearly as much out of them promotion-wise as they pay them. (Are most of these guys really worth $30k-$40K per year to the company. NO!) Weider spoils them. IF THERE WAS A CONSPIRACY, Weider the Company would want Cutler, the Great White Hope and a much more articulate man than Coleman to be Mr. O for the next 10 years. It would be much better for them in the long run.
- Regarding Weider contracts, the language quoted from the Weider contract is actually not standard employer/employee language, although it is used in some contracts, it is specically used here in case Weider wants to dismiss one of their athletes knowing that none of them would be able to pass a test. Second, the athletes are told that they will be tested for cocaine, clenbuterol, and certain diuretics. Is it a coincidence that Chad Nichols has a Weider contract and the top Weider athletes have access to his proven expertise in passing these tests? Also, no one Weider was evil, but they only began offering contracts after they saw athletes defecting to the WBF for more lucrative opportunities and they felt forced to do something to keep more athletes leaving the IFBB. Many agree that not all of the athletes deserve what they are getting, but this is their career and they are considered professionals at what they do. Considering the billions of dollars that the sale of supplements and magazines brings in by using these athletes as contracted endorsers, the amount they are paid can be justified. No one is saying that this is a Weider conspiracy against Jay, but rather saying the IFBB only enforces their "rules" randomly.
- Regarding Jay Cutler: Well technically you can file suit for just about anything these days. In a criminal law suit you have to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. In a civil suit all you have to do is create doubt to win, and I would argue that ANY person denied placing or money based on a drug test taken outside of a professional facility could most certainly create reasonable doubt and win. (This is why most promoters HATE drug tested shows. More than the expense alone, you have to worry about a possible law suit.)
Is Cutler crazy to file suit? Depends. Who is he looking to go after? Demilla? The testing organization for lack of protocal? Ihave seen some pretty shabby testing myself. The IFBB? Weider? Who? Maybe Cutler feels he has nothing to lose. Maybe he is tired of ruining his body for the sport and wants to prove a point and move on to bigger and better things.
Think about the money Cutler could win in a rather simple law suit (or most likely settle out of court for). You are looking at $60,000 in contest earnings alone. What price could be put on his mental anguish and embarrasement? What price for this unfair drug testing that has ruined his name in the sport and cost him future income? (In general you can assume two to three years to regain income in wrongful termination cases so I would assume he could ask this as well for lost wages.) My guess would be a minimum $200,000 law suit. Not bad if he was ready to quit anyway. Some questions to ponder that could easily win a civil court case:
First and formost this information was leaked to the public before official announcement was made to Cutler of his re-test results. (Or so it seems. This information may have been leaked by Jay himself and not the IFBB however.) That can be seen as deformation of character, and loss of income as a result. Was it an inappropriate test site? Some could argue a restroom backstage is not appropriate for proper collection. So where were they tested? Was it an actual doctors office? Anywhere but, and you could argue inappropriate testing procedure and
unreliable results. Was there improper collection and storage on site? Were the same devises available for storage as at a professional lab therefore diminishing a chance for speciman damage or tampering? Or were these specimans just left out in the open without an overly organized supervisor? Again argue that the test is unreliable and unfair. Was there monitored testing of all individuals? Did the SAME impartial tester SEE each guy produce his OWN urine? If not it was not a quality controlled testing environment, and therefore not fair or impartial testing.
It would be incredibly easy for these guys to use a vial of urine from a friend stuck in their posing suit to produce a urine sample. Laugh if you want I have even seen little guys on a local level do this to pass a urine test. And if you ever had to pee for a
probation drug test you know the same. No one would even know the difference unless they watched the guy pee in the cup straight on in front of them. A VERY good case for unfair testing procedure.
Another issue could be timing. Was Cutler tested at a different time? This would allow an unfair egde to those that could administer AFTER the testing and still make a difference. So an arguement here (if the this is the case) would be an unfair testing schedule and therefore biased testing procedure. If you want to speak conspiracy theory, think about this. How do we know Cutler was not pre-assured (by one of the powers that be) that there would be no problem with his test no matter what? That maybe Jay saved this communication? That it was a
total set up, and Jay can prove it? It will be interesting to see if an actual case is filed, and if it is put under gag order if settled out of court.
- What I have seen regarding the testing procedures at some of the pro shows is that all of the guys were required to give urine samples after the prejudging. I have seen these samples stay in a room all day unsupervised until the night show and then someone would stand outside the room. If you remember, it was the first time that Ruhl was disqualified that he was actually caught with a condom full of urine. From an e-mail from Jay, "I am in the legal process now, I am clean and stand at that, I will win." I don't think the disqualification will stand.
- I just read that Cutler was DQ'ed.. Sucks for him big time!!! That also means that now Dennis James is in the top 6, and Melvin Anthony went from gettin NOTHIN to 10,000 bucks and Qualifies for next years O. All I gotta say is Melvin is probably happy as hell, but sucks for Cutler. Ruhl also was DQ'ed for the second time. Wonder what the IFBB will say about that. Either way I dont think its that big of a deal for Jay, I'm sure he'll qualify for next year's O and if he can figure out what other diuretics aren't tested for, im sure he can duplicate his condition.. Shawn Ray failed the test at the 90-91 Arnold. And moved
on from there, im sure Jay will do that same.
- For those people who think this is not a huge deal for Jay Cutler, you are dead wrong. It us a huge deal! He worked his ass off getting ready for this show! He came into the Mr. Olympia, blew the crowd away, and beat Ronnie Coleman in the first two rounds! Lost the Mr. O by four points! In the final round! By biased judges who decided that since Ronnie went into the crowd, that was a better posing routine. Come on! If Jay is disqualified, he loses $60,000! His reputation is hurt! He is no longer qualified for next year Mr. Olympia! What do you think?
- Regarding the disqualificaiton, I am fed up with the IFBB. Just wondering if I am the only one who feels this way. I have closely followed pro bodybuilding and been a fan for about 13 years, in which time I have competed a bit and still faithfully train, but now I am at a point where I am almost so fed up with the politics and the state of pro bodybuilding that I don't really feel like its worth being a fan of any more. No disrespect to the
athletes, I have all the respect in the world for them, just not the way the I.F.B.B. chooses to run the sport.
- Hmmm, lets see. Jay Cutler works hard, comes from nowhere to smoke Ronnie Coleman. Kick his ass. That acording to the judges. Every judge had Jay first in both symmetry and Muscularity .All but one judge. Now suddenly, he flunks a diuretic test. Question: Is Jay Cutler that dumb, or do we sense a conspiracy!
- Come on everybody. Here is the truth! Jay's the only guy in the top ten who uses diuretics?
- Question: Does everybody take diurectics, or are some are just better at hiding/getting rid of it in their system???
- Being a bodybuilding fan for over 20 years, I always questioned decisions over the years, like why so-n-so didn't place higher. Now that I am actually an insider in the sport everything makes total sense. It is like any big business, it's got major political games going on. But like any business if you know how to play the game you can succeed. I'm not saying that it's right, that's just how it is, and I don't think a change in "management" will change it. Bodybuilding is still a business, and power always leads to corruption even if the intent going in is honorable.
- If you wanna talk about IFBB rules... According to IFBB rules since Markus was DQ'ed for Diuretics in 1999, he shouldnt have been allowed to compete for 1 full year. But yet he still did? Whats up with that? If you are gonna nit pick every rule to the very T, then as people was saying before. Weider should test his athletes for "ALL CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES"... Yep that means anabolic steroids also. And without juice, there really wouldnt be much
of a sport, at least on the level that it is now.
- Since this is Ruhl's second DQ, will he be suspended for 1 year?
- There is a rumor circulating on another board that a high ranking IFBB Pro is going to sing on Chad Nichols and his team of IV Diuretic users and his "methods" to beat the system, This pro could be Cutler. What will happen? Chad Nichols is signed by Weider as well, so maybe they will squelch the whole thing and let the placings stand. Anyone else hear anything about this at all???
- No one complained when nasser got DQ'ed in 96 for diuretics. Why can't anyone believe that Ruhl and Cutler were busted this time? This isn't the first time Ruhl been busted. Just accept it. Cutler beat Ronnie in the first two rounds, but he was on diuretics. Don't give me this insider bullshit. Like any of you know what Chad does with these guys. Get a clue!
- Ronnie Coleman should have been DQ'd when he showed those Star Spangled Banner Posing Trunks. The Rules are that the Posing trunks must be solid in color!!! Jay Cutler... DQ'ed for failing a drug test, though I don't agree. Kevin Levrone; shouldn't have been able to compete. We won't get into this again. So, ladies and gentlemen, we give you the rea; 2001 Mr. Olympia Champion, Shawn Ray!
- I thought everyone on this board might like to know some of the B.S. that is floating around about Jay failing the urine test. The problem with the whole thing is that the IFBB has not followed there own rules and procedures on matters.
It's no secret that the IFBB has been doing everything possible to get our beloved sport into the Olympics. In fact if you go to the IFBB web site you can read about drug testing procedures and the protocols to follow if you wish to dispute a test.
For instance the IFBB states that all drug tests will be performed by an IOC accredited laboratory. It goes on to state that in case of a positive test a certificate of analysis will be sent to the athlete explaining the option of how to dispute the test. The bottom line is the athlete has to pay all the costs involved and also the athlete has the right to be present when they open there B sample for testing (They the IFBB says they collect and A&B sample).
Now here is the interesting part. The testing was not done by an IOC accredited laboratory. How do I know? Because the only one in the country in at UCLA and ran by Professor Don Catlin. Let me explain to you why this is such an important fact. The United States Olympic Committeee back on October 1, 2001 decided to no longer have independent programs administer drug tests do to the numerous false positives and improper collection protocols. The United States Anti-Doping Agency is the only testing agency for Olympic Sports in the United States.
The USADA laboratory is the one used at UCLA. That means that the IFBB which states on it's IFBB Directive 2001-004 written on January 15, 2001 states in it's third paragraph, "upon receipt of a certificate of analysis from an IOC accredited laboratory.." Now remember they did not send this sample to an IOC accredited laboratory, but the directive for 2001-004 states that there procedureis to do send it out to only IOC accredited labs. In that same directive under item number 6 it states: "A certificate of analysis from an IOC-accredited laboratory will be considered Prima Facie Evidence (taken at face value)..."
Once again Jay is being victimized his livelyhood and reputation ruined for a test in which the IFBB did not send to an accredited IOC lab. Item number 9 & 10 are my favorites, remember this is the IFBB stating it's procedures. "The athlete, and or a representative chosen by the athlete, is entitled to be present during the opening of the "B" sample..." The analysis of the B sample MUST be undertaken by the same IOC-accredited laboratory that analyzed the A sample"
Guess what! Not only did the IFBB not have it tested at the correct lab; they do not have Jay Cutler's B Sample either! Now just in case anyone from the IFBB is reading this and they wish to try and hide behind IFBB Chapter VI, Article 3 in regards to just A sample tests I would advise the following.
1) Jays first test was not performed at an IOC test 2) Jay still retains the right to a protest for which you have lost his B sample AND # 3: This policy was adopted because the the IAAF and the IOC first announced that they would in fact begin to do so. So of course we blindly followed suit, well guess what happened guys??
Prince Alexandre de Merode, Chairman of the Medical Commission of the IOC told a new conference that this new revision procedure could "go against fundamental human rights. The IAAF is free to do what it wants, but we have a different view.." Speaking at the third day of a four day IOC board meeting he went on to say, "We'll see how things go with the IAAF but the advice of our juridical (legal( commission was that it touched on the question of human rights". So it is obvious even the IOC has shyed away from this type of problem. The only difference was they discovered it before a problem arose.
Let's face it, this is nothing bu a fraud. If we truly are to be in the Olympics which I hope we will be, we cannot be cutting corners and having drug tests performed at labs with a 20% faulty positive rating. Further if we say that we are following IOC guidelines and using there labs then we should be.