Does Ahmadinejad really want Israel destroyed?????

[Hugo Chavez]

Just as I suspected... I wondered if the Ahmadinejad words were being taken out of context and sure as shit that's what it looks like to me...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061212/wl_nm/iran_holocaust_dc

Is he saying Israel should be destroyed? "Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," Well Russia wasn't destroyed.  Zionism is a political ideology that guides a group of people, it is not the people.  The Russian people did not die when communism died.  IF this is what Ahmadinejad is saying, I agree and have believed for some time that an end to zionism is the only true way to peace in that area.  Let the attacks on me begin, because I am most ready to defend my thinking

[Mr. Intenseone]

Seems this idiot is joining forces with him.........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html

[Hugo Chavez]

Seems this idiot is joining forces with him.........

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html

Any comments on my observation?  Yea yea, he doesn't believe the holocaust happened, but that wasn't the point to my post.   Yes a point to the article, but not to my post.  Does he want Israel destroyed or was he taken out of context?  In this article he looks to be taken out of context which makes me question other reports of him saying this...

[bmacsys]

I think its pretty safe to assume a "yes" answer.

[Cavalier22]

absolutely he does.

[Nordic Superman]

Yes he does. You're trying to look too deep into it, searching for something that doesn't exist.

His ideology stengthens his desire for Israels destruction.

Disbelievers (non-Muslims): are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (Christians and/or Jews are) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); (idolaters are) unclean (9:28); “evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); “enemy” and “perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); are ill (84:20); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6), and deceived by Satan (4:60); liars/they lie (2:10, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 59:11) “losers” (7:179); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19), in false pride and schism (38:2), the lowest of the low (95:4-6).

[Hugo Chavez]

Yes he does. You're trying to look too deep into it, searching for something that doesn't exist.

His ideology stengthens his desire for Israels destruction.

I don't mean to sound like I'm defending the guy.  I just want to make sure we're not pulling the same media scamming bullshit that got us into Iraq...  When it comes to trusting the Iranian madman or the American Media, I can confidently say, I don't trust either of them one speck...  So while it is clear he wants zionism destroyed by his words that doesn't translate to him saying in this instance that Israel should be destroyed... I'll point out it is worth making sure all his words are not misquoted if it's going to be used as icing on a cake to send Americans off to be killed in another war.

[Hedgehog]

USA will never go into Iran.

But regarding Ahmadinejad, it was mostly rhetorics.

Still isn't an excuse for it. No political leader that expects to be taken serious should make statements like that.

Those statements are to be expected from madmen like David Duke and right-wing extremists.

Not serious politicians.

Be sceptical, even critical towards Israel. Or Sweden. Or USA, or any nation. That the right of any political leader.

But no true democrats calls for the destruction of other countries.

Fcuking goner.

I fear there needs to be some serious diplomatic skills to handle that guy.

And diplomacy hasn't exactly been a strength of the Bush/Rove Administration thus far.

-Hedge

[Hedgehog]

hedge, as an outside observer,

1) what is your take on bush?

2) do you think he truly believes it's his destiny to spread democracy across mid east?

3) do you think he's capable of sending them a parting shot attack as he leaves office?

1) He is average, or perhaps even below average as far as intelligence goes. This is most appearant when other political leaders with high intellects like Blair, and perhaps the most evident example, Putin, meets him 1-on-1.

During all these years, not once I have seen the USA come out as the winners of a big gathering or a meeting between Bush and another political leader.

Some may argue that most is dealt with beforehand, but the little that is taken care of on a personal basis, Bush repeatedly seems to get duped. And that is some scary shit TBH.

Especially in the case of Putin, Putin has Bush just where he wants him, and USA won't put any pressure on Russia for its breach of democracy and threatening of neighboring coutries. Partly because of the Putin-Bush relation IMO.



2) Bush speaks of doing God's work, being destined for doing what he's doing. In a sense, it is frightening that the leaders of both USA and Iran are claiming to be destined by God to do their work.

I also believe that Bush claims to have talked to God on occasion.



3)The Democratic House and Senate will prevent Bush from jumping into any crazy stuff. There is a tradition of the "lame duck", and Bush will follow the conduct of that tradition, IMO.

Bush has brought in some veteran foreign politicians, James Baker et al. Along with Bolton and Rumsfeld leaving, I expect for a different kind of policy, more along the lines of Bush Sr.

Is the Middle East Chicken Race over for George W Bush? I believe so.

He will come to his senses and pull out, ending the trauma that the Iraq war is.

What will happen next?

Ideally, UN will take over in Iraq, with lots of peacekeeping forces from lots of countries (USA as well).

Perhaps it could mean a new start for UN.

I doubt it. It would be in the best of worlds.

And as your questions implies, GWB seems to have this drive within to go the distance, even if he's wrong...

He's no quitter, a very ideological man.

-Hedge

edit: Perhaps I wasn't clear regarding how I thought the House and Senate being Democratic would prevent Bush from getting USA into any actions.

It's not a case of whether the Democrats are right or wrong. It's the tradition that a president on the way out won't start anything new without the consent of at least one of the House or the Senate.

-Hedge

[headhuntersix]

USA will never go into Iran.

But regarding Ahmadinejad, it was mostly rhetorics.

Still isn't an excuse for it. No political leader that expects to be taken serious should make statements like that.

Those statements are to be expected from madmen like David Duke and right-wing extremists.

Not serious politicians.

Be sceptical, even critical towards Israel. Or Sweden. Or USA, or any nation. That the right of any political leader.

But no true democrats calls for the destruction of other countries.

Fcuking goner.

I fear there needs to be some serious diplomatic skills to handle that guy.

And diplomacy hasn't exactly been a strength of the Bush/Rove Administration thus far.

-Hedge

I agree with hedge. Anytime this nutbag says anything..the headline is usually worse then what he says. He knows if he pushes them to far he's going to be glowing. He knows what he can get away with.

[Hugo Chavez]

USA will never go into Iran.

But regarding Ahmadinejad, it was mostly rhetorics.

Still isn't an excuse for it. No political leader that expects to be taken serious should make statements like that.

Those statements are to be expected from madmen like David Duke and right-wing extremists.

Not serious politicians.

Be sceptical, even critical towards Israel. Or Sweden. Or USA, or any nation. That the right of any political leader.

But no true democrats calls for the destruction of other countries.

Fcuking goner.

I fear there needs to be some serious diplomatic skills to handle that guy.

And diplomacy hasn't exactly been a strength of the Bush/Rove Administration thus far.

-Hedge

That's what I'm trying to find out, did he call for the destruction of Israel or did he call for the end of a flawed political movement?  There's a huge difference.  In this article, the article takes him directly out of context saying he wants Israel gone, but when you read what he says, he says he wants Zionism gone.  I'm just trying to find out what he actually said.  I don't think people should be running around saying he said he wants to destroy Israel if he didn't say that?  I mean it really puts a different perspective on a country getting the bomb that is talking about destroying countries so it's an important distinction.

[Hugo Chavez]

Ok, I just found his other comment, an exact translation... Now the news delivered it to us like this: "Ahmadinejad wants Israel wiped off the map " and this is what he actually said: “There is no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and the wave of spirituality and awakening in the Islamic world, will soon wipe this disgraceful stain off the Islamic world's dress.” That could mean to Destroy Israel and it could mean to clear the Islamic world of Zionist influence, that is to bring an end to the fight on the Islamic world by Israel which is done with an end to Zionism, not an end to the people and the country.  If his second comments give any context to his first comments it is very possible, he was also talking about an end to Zionism in his first comments...  Again, I'm not trying defend this guy, I'm more interesting in holding my corporate ran media accountable to some accuracy, especially when a possible escalation of WWIII is at stake, I want these MO's to be exact and not make ASSumptions that could get us all in deep shit again.

[Dos Equis]

   Oh please.  Pure semantics.  Of course he hates Israel and wants them wiped off the map, like most of the Arab countries in the Middle East.  Not exactly a news flash. 

[Fury]

News flash:  Both sides hate the other side, and both sides would like to see the other turned into a parking lot.

Also, yesterday israel admitted it had nukes, which violates the US policy on dealing with undeclared nuclear states.  Of course, if you think the US is going to apply the same rules to Israel that it does to anyone else...

Is this really news to you that Israel had nukes? Let's sit down and think about it for a second.....

[Camel Jockey]

He wants for Iran to dominate and take over the middle east. Of course he says he wants Israel destroyed because that makes him popular amonst his countrymen and else where in the middle east.

[Hugo Chavez]

  Oh please.  Pure semantics.  Of course he hates Israel and wants them wiped off the map, like most of the Arab countries in the Middle East.  Not exactly a news flash. 

yea, I can dig up a lot of anti-arab very mean quotes from zionists.  quotes that depict the demise of Arabs who are in their way.  And that maybe is true that Iran also wants Israeli Jews gone but all I'm saying is be exact with this shit.  If you're going to title something, Achmadmadman SAYS he want's Israel wiped off the map.  That better fucking be what he said, not what you twisted his words to say.  We have neocons beating the war drums again to get us into Iran and the other day America is told by the media that for the second time the Iranian president has indicated the end to jews and Israel, but that's not what he said, he said he wanted an end to a political system such as there was an end to communism in Russia.  That a major difference... I don't want Israel or the jews hurt but have long said zionism has to end for there to ever be the start to a peace process and the Arabs will have to sacrifice too.  None of that will ever happen, but it doesn't mean I can't want it to happen because it is right.