Author Topic: One set training  (Read 604 times)

oldtimer1

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One set training
« on: October 02, 2024, 08:52:17 AM »
There seems to be a lot of hate for anyone that dare uses one set to failure on this site.  Some claim guys like Yates, Cardillo Mr. Canada and Dave Mastorakis are lying about their training. I think it comes from not understanding their training protocol. 

Yes, they used warm ups as needed.  No one can take 400lbs plus and do one set of inclines or 500lbs squats without a warm up.  Let me explain.  Going to use weights for at trainer that doesn't exist below to make my point.  It will be chest day.

Bench press
1x10 with an empty bar
1 x 10 with 135lbs
1 x 4 with 225lbs
1 x 9 to failure with 250lbs   (This is the one set to failure. The guy couldn't get 10 reps if someone put a gun to his head)

Incline press
1 x 10 135
1x 8 210lbs  (His set to failure knowing he couldn't get one more rep)

Flat flies
1x 6 45lbs Warm up
1x 11 65lbs (One counted work set)

Dips
1x8 with 35lbs (one set to failure with no warm up)

This trainer counts four work sets and doesn't count warm up sets that he uses as needed.


Yes, forced reps can be included as well as drop sets. Yates used drop sets for delt dumbbell laterals sometimes as well as chest flies but not all the time.

I know some volume trainers would really have to train with one set using honesty on their effort to understand. Guys that claim it's a walk in the park aren't pushing them self with the one set to failure protocol.  It's the hardest way to train. 

Having said that I have no problem with volume trainers. It's just a different type of training. Just like a 400 meter runner doesn't train the same as a 1500 meter runner. Same goes for the 1500 meter runner in comparison to a 10K guy.  It's all work. It's all hard in it's own way.  I'm using the definition of intensity as it applies to lifting. Endurance lifting can be brutal but it's not intensity training.



Rmj11

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Re: One set training
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2024, 04:04:20 AM »
"There seems to be a lot of hate for anyone that dare uses one set to failure on this site."

No hate. Just stating facts about hit.   

"Some claim guys like Yates, Cardillo Mr. Canada and Dave Mastorakis are lying about their training. I think it comes from not understanding their training protocol."

Course they lied and still do, especially Yates. They all did conventional methods to build up, that's a fact. None did hit from day one and built a great body. Not one.

Look at Dorian's early chest routine, he used conventional methods and not hit to build his chest.

Bench press 135x10 200x8 265x8 285x7 310x5 pyramid sets
Incline press 250x5 240x5 230x5 reverse sets
Incline flys 70x8 70x7 70x6 straight sets

Source: his 1985 to 1990 journal files

"Yes, they used warm ups as needed.  No one can take 400lbs plus and do one set of inclines or 500lbs squats without a warm up."

No-one was stating that they take a heavy weight without some build up sets and those so called warm up sets were not all warm ups.

"Let me explain.  Going to use weights for at trainer that doesn't exist below to make my point.  It will be chest day.

Bench press
1x10 with an empty bar
1 x 10 with 135lbs
1 x 4 with 225lbs
1 x 9 to failure with 250lbs   (This is the one set to failure. The guy couldn't get 10 reps if someone put a gun to his head)

Incline press
1 x 10 135
1x 8 210lbs  (His set to failure knowing he couldn't get one more rep)

Flat flies
1x 6 45lbs Warm up
1x 11 65lbs (One counted work set)

Dips
1x8 with 35lbs (one set to failure with no warm up)"

Wrong. Let's be more specific. Yates used pyramid sets as a lot of bodybuilders do. Example

Set 1 10 to 12 reps at 50% of top weight warm up
Set 2 8 to 10 reps at 70% of top weight moderate weight work set
Set 3 6 to 8 reps at 90% moderate heavy to near failure work set
Set 4 6 to 8 reps at top weight failure work set

So no, there more work sets going on due to load and tension on the muscle from the moderate to heavy weights. If you're doing 4 exercises a bodypart that' s actually 12 work sets with 4 of those to failure if needed as we now know it's not even necessary to go to failure to cause growth.

"Yes, forced reps can be included as well as drop sets. Yates used drop sets for delt dumbbell laterals sometimes as well as chest flies but not all the time."

As did many bodybuilders...so what? Besides doing drop sets is actually adding more volume to the workout so it's not true one set to failure now is it? 😄

"I know some volume trainers would really have to train with one set using honesty on their effort to understand."

Nope.

" Guys that claim it's a walk in the park aren't pushing them self with the one set to failure protocol.  It's the hardest way to train."

It really isn't. Try doing a volume workout with short rest periods between sets. That's hard. Doing 20 sets a bodypart with reasonable intensity per bodypart then coming back the next day to do it again for another bodypart or 2 is hard.

"Having said that I have no problem with volume trainers. It's just a different type of training. Just like a 400 meter runner doesn't train the same as a 1500 meter runner. Same goes for the 1500 meter runner in comparison to a 10K guy.  It's all work."

Running isn't bodybuilding. Two separate activities. You hit guys with all that marathon running analogy...it's stupid.

"It's all hard in it's own way.  I'm using the definition of intensity as it applies to lifting. Endurance lifting can be brutal but it's not intensity training."

Sorry but wrong again. Volume is not endurance the same as running is. It's muscular endurance and yes it's hard. It's why you hit clowns don't do volume as it's hard...

Arnold's training was hard that not many could keep up with him and he did work hard. Even the silver era bodybuilder routines from such greats like Reg Park and Steve Reeves would bury the wimpy trainers of today.

Fact is, hit doesn't work. There has never been a successful hit only bodybuilder...never. Hit, despite being around for 50 odd years, STILL has a very dismal success record. Yates, methzer, Mastorakis, Viator, Baker, etc ALL built their bodies with volume over several years. Hit is a myth.

Rmj11

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Re: One set training
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2024, 04:29:55 AM »
Dorian Yates has no idea how to train…naturals that is.

The Internet is filled with clips of him trashing volume training, but the reality is painfully different, if you’re natural, of course.

Here are (high IQ) reasons why Dorian Yates’s H.I.T. methods are nothing but pretentious nonsense that doesn’t work unless you’re blasting a glorious amount of anabolic steroids that functionally “bribe” the cells of your body to synthesize more protein.

If you’re natural, the only things that you will gain from HIT are weird grimaces while you train and a destroyed CNS.

Let’s hit it.

H.I.T. Is Too Easy On The Body

HIT-brahs always brag about how HIT is really difficult. Yates does the same, but the reality is painfully different.

What is it?

HIT = EZ on The BODY, Hard On The Brain

You see, the brain is the smartest organ in your body, allegedly, but it can be tricked.

So, here’s what’s happening.

During a hard set, the CNS signals to the brain that the organism is under fire. So, you naturally conclude that you’re working hard.

And that’s the case, but only for 1 set.

Then you rest…way too long.

The body is hit (lol), but each muscle group does not receive enough stimulation throughout the entire week to grow.

However, since every day is CNS day, you conclude that you’re working hard when in fact, the overall BODILY fatigue is quite low.

To grow muscle, you need to do more WORK. It’s that simple.

Back in the day, some guy asked Mentzer why his calves weren’t growing, so Mentzer told him that he was overtraining them and advised a reduction of calf training frequency to once every 14 days. (I read that in a magazine.)

This isn’t very intelligent advice on Mentzer’s part.

Why?

Doing a few hard sets for the calves (one of the toughest muscles in the body) and then going for a 2-week vacation is akin to expecting to raise your IQ by reading for 40 seconds a day.

In reality, if you have a lagging muscle group, you have to do the exact opposite, namely – increase the frequency and volume.

In other words, you must train it HARDER.

And harder does not mean one look-at-me-I-am-puking set, but multiple “money sets” done more frequently.

This is true for unnaturals and even truer for naturals.

Dorian’s HIT contains slightly more volume, but the frequency will not be enough unless you’re genetically gifted everywhere.

“But have you watched Blood n’ Guts,” says the dreamer.

Yes. I have. If you mute the annoying screaming, the training doesn’t look as tough as you think it is.

I’ve been to gyms where average people who have regular jobs train just as hard and with even more frequency.

Everyone Tries HIT and Quits Not Because The Program Is Hard…but

HIT has been here a long time. Virtually every serious muscle constructor has tried it.

And yet the methodology is still not popular. Why?

The HIT fetishists will say “Because it’s super hard and people can’t handle it”.

That’s incorrect. The true answer is:

Because it’s not as effective as other methods.

Don’t you think that if HIT was all that effective, the pros would have switched a long time ago?

Professional bodybuilders and other hypertrophy-addicts are doing everything in their power to get bigger.

The sacrifice includes the following rituals:

Daily injections of known and unknown steroids. Some compounds are literally designed for horses and yet people introduce them to their bloodstream.

Growth hormone injections

Insulin injections (you can get into a coma and die as a result of this practice)

Training 6-7 days a week

Following expensive and complicated diets

Paying glorious amounts of money to personal trainers

Don’t you think that individuals who are willing to do all of that in the name of the Hypertrophy God are afraid of HIT?

Think again.

Harder.

The painful truth is that a muscle addict will go all the way to add muscle to his frame. 

And if HIT was the difference between being average and the KING, everybody would be a HITTER.

Injuries

Here’s a questionnaire for geniuses:

When do you think you are more likely to tear a muscle? 

A) When you perform a set until you know that the next rep will require you to break form.

B) When you perform a set to total failure, and then some sweaty fella with raisin-like balls lifts the weight all the weight for you so that you can get 3 more reps with extremely slow negatives?

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter how effective your training is when…you can’t train due to an injury.

If you want to tear a muscle, go ahead and HIT it hard.

Not Practical

HIT forces you to jump on the machines because applying it to compound exercises is often dangerous.

Do you think that it’s a coincidence that HIT was heavily promoted by Arthur Jones, the inventor of the Nautilus machine series?

A wise man once told me that —-

there is no such thing as a coincidence.

HIT Treats You Like a Machine

High IQ training realises that humans are not robots. Hence smart programming comes with carefully engineered deload phases (one step back, two steps forward type of thing).

HIT could have this sophistication too but more often than not doesn’t because the teachers are too focused on squeezing your CNS until you vomit.

They think that it’s awesome to feel like you were just HIT by a car after a workout.

Additional Hard-Hitting Facts

Mentzer and Yates both built their bodies with volume before allegedly switching to HIT. (According to many mentzer was doing higher volume than advertised.)

Yates already had a pro physique when he switched to lower volume and that was to MAINTAIN the mass he'd already built.

During the so-called Colorado experiment, Casey Viator didn’t build any new muscle. He simply regained what he’d lost before.

Hit is a myth.


oldtimer1

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Re: One set training
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2024, 05:46:58 PM »
RMJ11, You are too easy. I set a trap and you got all worked up over nothing. I'm not reading that.

I do want to hear what you think optimal training is for most people not using drugs.  Is it training a body part once a week? Could it be twice or even three times?  What rep range is best?  How many sets and exercises per body part? Is your answer everyone needs a different protocol?

Here you go coach. With limited parameters this is what you have. You have a 25 year old running back who played college ball and he graduated. Great athlete but no where near NFL potential.  He supplemented his football and sprint training with a very consolidated lifting routine that concentrated on the power clean, bench and squat. He threw in some curls for the girls. He generally did something like 8 reps, 6-4-2-1 on the heavy lifts. His lifting was a supplement to his priority of football training.  He's very strong and explosive both innate and acquired.

 Now his goal is to just concentrate on how he looks as he works on his career. His potential is undeniable but has zero plans to ever compete in bodybuilding . He is built but wants to take it further. What split would you put him on?  How many exercises per body part?  Would the rep range be 6 to 8 reps?  Would you go higher like 8 to 12 reps?  Would you cycle the training with different training protocols through the training year? The guy works 40 hours a week with an hour commute each way. He has a social life and girl friend. How would you advise him?  Seriously, I'm not busting your chops. What would you tell him?

IroNat

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Re: One set training
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2024, 05:52:53 AM »
RMJ11, You are too easy. I set a trap and you got all worked up over nothing. I'm not reading that.

I do want to hear what you think optimal training is for most people not using drugs.  Is it training a body part once a week? Could it be twice or even three times?  What rep range is best?  How many sets and exercises per body part? Is your answer everyone needs a different protocol?

Here you go coach. With limited parameters this is what you have. You have a 25 year old running back who played college ball and he graduated. Great athlete but no where near NFL potential.  He supplemented his football and sprint training with a very consolidated lifting routine that concentrated on the power clean, bench and squat. He threw in some curls for the girls. He generally did something like 8 reps, 6-4-2-1 on the heavy lifts. His lifting was a supplement to his priority of football training.  He's very strong and explosive both innate and acquired.

 Now his goal is to just concentrate on how he looks as he works on his career. His potential is undeniable but has zero plans to ever compete in bodybuilding . He is built but wants to take it further. What split would you put him on?  How many exercises per body part?  Would the rep range be 6 to 8 reps?  Would you go higher like 8 to 12 reps?  Would you cycle the training with different training protocols through the training year? The guy works 40 hours a week with an hour commute each way. He has a social life and girl friend. How would you advise him?  Seriously, I'm not busting your chops. What would you tell him?


Rmj11

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Re: One set training
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2024, 06:32:18 AM »
RMJ11, You are too easy. I set a trap and you got all worked up over nothing. I'm not reading that.

I do want to hear what you think optimal training is for most people not using drugs.  Is it training a body part once a week? Could it be twice or even three times?  What rep range is best?  How many sets and exercises per body part? Is your answer everyone needs a different protocol?

Here you go coach. With limited parameters this is what you have. You have a 25 year old running back who played college ball and he graduated. Great athlete but no where near NFL potential.  He supplemented his football and sprint training with a very consolidated lifting routine that concentrated on the power clean, bench and squat. He threw in some curls for the girls. He generally did something like 8 reps, 6-4-2-1 on the heavy lifts. His lifting was a supplement to his priority of football training.  He's very strong and explosive both innate and acquired.

 Now his goal is to just concentrate on how he looks as he works on his career. His potential is undeniable but has zero plans to ever compete in bodybuilding . He is built but wants to take it further. What split would you put him on?  How many exercises per body part?  Would the rep range be 6 to 8 reps?  Would you go higher like 8 to 12 reps?  Would you cycle the training with different training protocols through the training year? The guy works 40 hours a week with an hour commute each way. He has a social life and girl friend. How would you advise him?  Seriously, I'm not busting your chops. What would you tell him?

You didn't set me up at all. I've stated facts about the one set gimmick which you have admitted not to have read those facts because it will prove that you have wasted all those years on an inferior training method while leaving many gains on the table. Too late now I guess...😆

Donny

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Re: One set training
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2024, 06:44:55 AM »
RMJ11, You are too easy. I set a trap and you got all worked up over nothing. I'm not reading that.

I do want to hear what you think optimal training is for most people not using drugs.  Is it training a body part once a week? Could it be twice or even three times?  What rep range is best?  How many sets and exercises per body part? Is your answer everyone needs a different protocol?

Here you go coach. With limited parameters this is what you have. You have a 25 year old running back who played college ball and he graduated. Great athlete but no where near NFL potential.  He supplemented his football and sprint training with a very consolidated lifting routine that concentrated on the power clean, bench and squat. He threw in some curls for the girls. He generally did something like 8 reps, 6-4-2-1 on the heavy lifts. His lifting was a supplement to his priority of football training.  He's very strong and explosive both innate and acquired.

 Now his goal is to just concentrate on how he looks as he works on his career. His potential is undeniable but has zero plans to ever compete in bodybuilding . He is built but wants to take it further. What split would you put him on?  How many exercises per body part?  Would the rep range be 6 to 8 reps?  Would you go higher like 8 to 12 reps?  Would you cycle the training with different training protocols through the training year? The guy works 40 hours a week with an hour commute each way. He has a social life and girl friend. How would you advise him?  Seriously, I'm not busting your chops. What would you tell him?

a simple answer would be it depends on your other energy expenditure, if you for example are running like you post then recovery must be lower for weight training..so you use 1 set training.