What's Going On With My Dogs???

[Colossus_500]

Here in the last couple of months, my dogs have taken on some very unpredictable behavior.  Maggie, my shepherd mix, has been "casing" the perimeter of the fence in the back yard looking for ways to get out so she can run around the neighborhood and go rough-house with the pit bull down the street.  What's even more odd is Buster (my terrier-mix has been going with her!  Totally not like him.  I patched up the fence, and I think we have things back to normal, but I'm just trying to figure out why, after 10 years of living in that house, did they decide they want to check out the neighborhood?  Also, Buster has been pooping in the house, which is also totally unlike him.  The only thing I could attribute it to is the fact that we've had carpenters and painters at the house for some repair work.  But my wife stays at home with the kids, so they shouldn't have too much anxiety.  We've worked through all of that with Maggie, who had some serious separation anxiety when we first got her from the SPCA.  I can't figure it out.  Yesterday morning, I'm walking down the steps and as I get to the first floor, I feel something wet soak right through my sock.  I looked down and sure enough there was a puddle of pee at the foot of the stairs.  Both of the dogs are 12 years old (Maggie is at least 12), but they are in phenomenal shape.  When our neighbor called and said they had our dogs, she told my wife that she thought they were puppies.  She freaked when my wife told her how old they were.  lol  Finally, yesterday afternoon, my wife calls me at work and says, "well, I know who the pee culprit is.  It's Buster."     She said she new it was him because she caught him literally raising his leg on the gait between the kitchen and the family room.  We're taking him to the vet today, and will mention the strange behavior, but I'm hoping my fellow dog lovers can help me figure out what's going on.   I'm having a really hard time with Buster getting older, because he's the first dog I ever had.    We got him not too long after my father passed away, so he means alot to me.   And I'd be devastated if anything ever happened to Maggie too.  The vet won't even talk to me about how much longer my dogs will live, especially since I got all teary-eyed the one time I asked him how long he thought Buster and Maggie would live. He calls my wife and gives her the low-down now as far as their age and what to expect longevity wise.  Maggie has always been neurotic, but sweet as she can be.  I just don't want to find her laid out on the street.   

Help me?   

[Butterbean]

Ro, I just sent this to Flower and I know Vet will see it too.  They and others here I'm sure will have some good questions and comments for you. 

Is the one still eating the doo doo?

[emn1964]

could be age related doggie dementia.  my 13 year old golden (who I just had to put down) started doing the very same things about a year or so ago.  don't worry, they don't know that they have dementia, it doesn't really affect the quality of their life, just yours.

cue flower with her diatribe about a natural diet.

[~flower~]

lol @ emn!   

  While every dog would benefit from a natural diet, I don't think diet is the issue here.  Although good nutrition is said to help stave off dementia for awhile!!     

  I haven't a clue except for what emn said, a bit of dementia? 

  Fish oil is good for brain health!!   



 

[Colossus_500]

Ro, I just sent this to Flower and I know Vet will see it too.  They and others here I'm sure will have some good questions and comments for you. 

Is the one still eating the doo doo?

Yes!!!!    Buster still does it, but not as much.  I was guessing it had to do with getting the backyard overhauled, and he was catching a bunch of new scents since the dirt was redistributed.  But it's just his poop and Maggie's, and he's never eaten her poop.  My only guess is that he's not getting enough nutrition. 

UPDATE:  Buster got a clean bill of health from the vet.  The vet said he looks great for a 12yr-old pup.  Still leaves things a bit perplexing about the peeing and poop eating.   

I was thinking of adding some different nutrients to their diet now that they are a bit older. 

could be age related doggie dementia.  my 13 year old golden (who I just had to put down) started doing the very same things about a year or so ago.  don't worry, they don't know that they have dementia, it doesn't really affect the quality of their life, just yours.

cue flower with her diatribe about a natural diet.

Sorry to hear about your golden.     I was thinking Buster may be entering the dementia stage.  And that's what worries me.  Mutts typically don't have the health issues that pure breeds do.  I know he won't live forever, but it's just really hard for me to deal with.  I will definitely leaning on my fellow dog lovers when that time comes.

lol @ emn!   

  While every dog would benefit from a natural diet, I don't think diet is the issue here.  Although good nutrition is said to help stave off dementia for awhile!!     

  I haven't a clue except for what emn said, a bit of dementia? 

  Fish oil is good for brain health!!   
 

Thanks, Flower.     I'll check this out over the weekend.

[knny187]

In my opinion...

If the dogs are given a clean bill of health....it's going to be one other thing....

A behavioural issue

Doesn't mater hold old the dogs (or cats for that matter).

Something or someone has affected their harmony & behaviour.  This can change at any age.  Remember that old saying..."can't teach an old dog new tricks"?......

Sure you can & everyone knows that.

First & foremost, how much exercise & discipline are they given?  Is it more than love & attention?  Those are two different things.  Granted, I roll around on the ground & wrestle with our dog...but he get's "his" walk & exercise everyday.  Dogs need a balance of both.

When I was growing up...we had alot of Labs.  Our one Big Male was about 11-12 or so when he started something like what your dogs are doing.  My father used to get so pissed at him.  Funny as it seems now...but it was giving him the attention he was lacking.  It was my brothers dog & he was off in the marines at the time.  Sure, we gave him attention everyday...but not exactly what HE was needing.  I realized eventhough I had my own dog, I started taking him for his own walks & giving him "his" time.  This big male (120lb lab) lived to an amazing 14 years old.  I took him under my wing & made him my pal.  I find when a dog gets older, their needs shift.  Most importantly...they like the love & attention....but they still need to know they have a job, an exercise regime, a purpose.


Be honest with yourself....& think about it.  A dog isn't going to pee inside the house for no reason unless they're not house broken.  There could be territorial issues, but I seriously doubt it's that.  I should have asked to begin with if these dogs are spayed & neutered because sometimes this could change certain dynamics within the dogs mental state.

[Colossus_500]

In my opinion...

If the dogs are given a clean bill of health....it's going to be one other thing....

A behavioural issue

Doesn't mater hold old the dogs (or cats for that matter).

Something or someone has affected their harmony & behaviour.  This can change at any age.  Remember that old saying..."can't teach an old dog new tricks"?......

Sure you can & everyone knows that.

First & foremost, how much exercise & discipline are they given?  Is it more than love & attention?  Those are two different things.  Granted, I roll around on the ground & wrestle with our dog...but he get's "his" walk & exercise everyday.  Dogs need a balance of both.

When I was growing up...we had alot of Labs.  Our one Big Male was about 11-12 or so when he started something like what your dogs are doing.  My father used to get so pissed at him.  Funny as it seems now...but it was giving him the attention he was lacking.  It was my brothers dog & he was off in the marines at the time.  Sure, we gave him attention everyday...but not exactly what HE was needing.  I realized eventhough I had my own dog, I started taking him for his own walks & giving him "his" time.  This big male (120lb lab) lived to an amazing 14 years old.  I took him under my wing & made him my pal.  I find when a dog gets older, their needs shift.  Most importantly...they like the love & attention....but they still need to know they have a job, an exercise regime, a purpose.


Be honest with yourself....& think about it.  A dog isn't going to pee inside the house for no reason unless they're not house broken.  There could be territorial issues, but I seriously doubt it's that.  I should have asked to begin with if these dogs are spayed & neutered because sometimes this could change certain dynamics within the dogs mental state.

Thanks Knny!  Great post.  These are the types of things that I've just tried explaining to my wife.  We have four kids now, and though the dogs get plenty of exercise in either rough-housing or playing with my youngest two.  Plus, the house is dog-proofed, and I think that the dogs have been confined to smaller areas of the house opposed to have the whole run of the house like they did before all of the kids came.  It's ok for my shepherd-mix, because she gets it out of her system when we're outside.  But for my terrier-mix, it might be impacting him a little bit more because he was before the second pup and the 4 kids. 

It's very subtle so you don't readily see these things, but when you take a step back and look at what's taken place, it's very evident. 

Thanks, bro!   

[knny187]

Thanks Knny!  Great post.  These are the types of things that I've just tried explaining to my wife.  We have four kids now, and though the dogs get plenty of exercise in either rough-housing or playing with my youngest two.  Plus, the house is dog-proofed, and I think that the dogs have been confined to smaller areas of the house opposed to have the whole run of the house like they did before all of the kids came.  It's ok for my shepherd-mix, because she gets it out of her system when we're outside.  But for my terrier-mix, it might be impacting him a little bit more because he was before the second pup and the 4 kids. 

It's very subtle so you don't readily see these things, but when you take a step back and look at what's taken place, it's very evident. 

Thanks, bro!   

I don't want to come across like Cesar Milan...but I agree with alot of what he says vs some other dog trainers/behavioral experts.

Although dogs are dogs & need to be treated like a dog, some of their needs we can relate to because we are a part of the animal kingdom ourselves.

On a day by yourself.....break out the leashes....& take the dogs for a good walk.  Somewhere they can be themselves.  A good place that has trees, dirt, and all of the outdoor smells.  Get them well exercised.  Don't be to 'playful' with them....just set the tone & structure of leadership....& let them just be themselves.

When you get home, then let them know they were "good dogs".  Act like you're proud of them....just give them that 'energy'. 

And most importantly....do this type of activity as often as you can.  Granted, we all have lifestyles & family duties, but dog ownership has it's responsibilities too.  On some days, bringing the entire family on the walks is essential.  The only reason why I suggest just you & the dogs at first is so they can take their 'own' time sniffing around & just be dogs.

[Princess L]

Patricia McConnell has a radio program every Saturday morning called CALLING ALL PETS.   She's a leading animal behaviorist.  Call this number and ask how you can get on the show. 800/642-1234.  She also takes emails for the show.  You can listen to archives at WPR.org

[Vet]

Sorry, I haven't been on the boards the last couple of days..... 


The first thing I'd recommend for your dogs is a thorough physical examination and blood work including a urinalysis.  This will help you rule out any sort of phyical abnormality that might be contributing to the problem....


That said, unfortunately from the description you've given, I'd be much happier to find a physical problem than what I'm suspicious might be going on---some behavior difficulties. 

You mentioned a prior history of separation anxiety with the shepard.    Separation anxiety is just like OCD in a human in many respects with dogs.  The dogs don't "get over it"---although we'd like to think that they do.  They develop/learn/are medicated into coping mechanisms that allow them to live a normal life without disruption or as normal of a life they can have without disruption.   You mentioned children and housework.  Those are a recipe to send an otherwise anxious dog over the edge.   And unfortunately, German shepard mixes seem to be highly represented in dogs with just that sort of predisposition.  You didn't mention age of the children, but if they are young kids, remember they will change as they age---for some older dogs, yelling, crying, pooping kids can be very, very stressful.  Combine that with loud saws, hammering, and other construction noises and with bad smells of painting and you might have had enough to push both of the dogs over the edge. 

You didn't mention if the male dog was intact or not, but I'm going to assume from the "leg hiking" that you described that he is.   Urinating on the floor can be an early sign of prostate enlargement or prostatitis.  That can be determined by a Physical and urinalysis.    It can also be a territorial issue brought on by environmental stress.

The other thing you really, really need to determine is is this a male dog that has been pissing in your house for some time or is this a new development.  The longer its beeing going on, the more of a problem it may be to fix.   I had this type of a problem with my own dogs.  My aunt came to visit with her  little nonhousebroken pieces of crap, who proceeded to piss all over my upstairs bedroom.  This set off my lab, who then took months to get him to quit sneaking into that room and squirting a few drips on the edge of the bed.   



The bottom line is get a physical and laboratory work done first, then work on the problem from there. 

[knny187]

The bottom line is get a physical and laboratory work done first, then work on the problem from there. 

Not sure how deep it was researched by the Vet...but he already said this:

UPDATE:  Buster got a clean bill of health from the vet.  The vet said he looks great for a 12yr-old pup.  Still leaves things a bit perplexing about the peeing and poop eating.   

[Vet]

Not sure how deep it was researched by the Vet...but he already said this:

Yeah, I saw that.  There was no mention of blood work or a urinalysis though and I wasn't exactly sure of when this assessment was made.     

It also points to what I was hinting at with things having a relatively high chance of being a behavior issue.    The thing is you need to rule out all potential physical problems before delving into the world of behavior if you want a reasonable chance of being successful with the outcome.  t doesn't make much sense to start an intensive behavior modification program with an old dog with a prostate thats so bit its causing him to dribble urine?  Does that make sense?

[Colossus_500]

Yeah, I saw that.  There was no mention of blood work or a urinalysis though and I wasn't exactly sure of when this assessment was made.     

It also points to what I was hinting at with things having a relatively high chance of being a behavior issue.    The thing is you need to rule out all potential physical problems before delving into the world of behavior if you want a reasonable chance of being successful with the outcome.  t doesn't make much sense to start an intensive behavior modification program with an old dog with a prostate thats so bit its causing him to dribble urine?  Does that make sense?

Yep! Thanks, Vet.    Dude, I was cracking up at the "nonhousebroken pieces of crap" comment!    haaaaaaaaaaa 

What a difference a week without chaos outside the home makes.... Maggie's still showing some of her anxiety (she had gone back to biting herself to release endorphins).  But she's not doing that nearly as much as she was when the carpenter and painters were here.  I spent a good amount of time with them outside over the long weekend, and they seemed to be getting back into sync.  I still think it's just a pattern that needs to be re-instilled in the pups. 

Thanks again, everyone for helping out.  I'll have to check out that website that you mention, Princess L.

[knny187]

Yeah, I saw that.  There was no mention of blood work or a urinalysis though and I wasn't exactly sure of when this assessment was made.     

It also points to what I was hinting at with things having a relatively high chance of being a behavior issue.    The thing is you need to rule out all potential physical problems before delving into the world of behavior if you want a reasonable chance of being successful with the outcome.  t doesn't make much sense to start an intensive behavior modification program with an old dog with a prostate thats so bit its causing him to dribble urine?  Does that make sense?

From what I was gathering.....

He took the dog to the vet & cleared....

It's not just a dribble of urine.....

some other circumstances in the home environment/dynamics changed....


seems behavioural which is not uncommon for any dog at any age.


What burns me up so many times when ever I've gone to a vet or dr's is the first thing out of their mouth is "lets run some tests"

In another words....lets see how much money we can make you spend.

I'm sure if his Vet cleared him...he ruled out the possibility of running tests (or did) to determine his/her decision.