Author Topic: Diss a "gay", go to jail?  (Read 7214 times)

GroinkTropin

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Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« on: February 16, 2007, 11:15:54 PM »
I find this article VERY disturbing, its pretty obvious the homosexuals benefit from being called "gay" and not homosexual which is what they are. This would be akin to straights being called "elated" as opposed to straight, it fosters a more positive mental reaction. If something like this happens here, I will fucking lose it. The homosexual mafia hard at work to further their agenda....

    


WND Exclusive LAW OF THE LAND
Diss a 'gay'? Go to jail!
Activists warn Christians targeted under new 'hate crimes' proposal

By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Two Christians in Australia have been indicted for criticizing Islam, and another for criticizing Zionism. A filmmaker has been threatened with arrest for using the word "homosexual" rather than "gay." Now a German priest faces jail time for publicly criticizing abortionists, and in Holland, "fornicators" and "adulterers" are protected classes and cannot be criticized.

All courtesy of the concept of federal "hate crimes" legislation, which unless defeated soon could be mandatory in the United States, warns a rising chorus of critics.

"All that matters are the delicate feelings of members of federally protected groups," said Michael Marcavage, director of RepentAmerica.com "Truth is not allowed as evidence in hate crimes trials. … A homosexual can claim emotional damage from hearing Scripture that describes his lifestyle as an abomination. He can press charges against the pastor or broadcaster who merely reads the Bible in public. The 'hater' can be fined thousands of dollars and even imprisoned!"

All this, he noted, to attack incidents that according to the FBI's 2005 Uniform Crime Report make up on one-fifteenth of 1 percent of all crimes.

The language is in a new proposal pending in Congress, H.R. 254, or the David Ray Hate Crimes Prevention Act. That, according to Rev. Ted Pike, of the National Prayer Network, starts out with a federal police state enforcement of "anti-hate" laws but would, as it has in other parts of the world, "lead inexorably to the end of free speech."

The plan, proposed by Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, D-Texas, is "stealth legislation at its most devious," Pike has written in a campaign to alert people to the potential problems. He said people respond with, "This bill just wants federal power to prosecute bias-motivated violent crimes in the states – what's wrong with that?"

"There's plenty wrong with that!" he said. First, the Constitution does not grant federal government the "police state privilege" of being your local law enforcement. "Unless the government finds evidence of slavery in the states, jury tampering, voter fraud, or crimes involving interstate commerce (where jurisdiction is unclear), the Constitution's message to the federal government is blunt and emphatic: 'Butt out of local law enforcement!'"

However, Pike said the authors of the new legislation have been clever, inserting in the proposal assertions that because five states do not have hate laws, the federal government has "no choice" but to "enhance federal enforcement of hate crimes." That includes new ranks of federal agents to address the "serious national problem" that exists.

Worse yet, there are some key phrases that open doors wide that many people don't want opened. For example, Pike said, the bill is to "prevent and respond to alleged violations," meaning "the government does not even have to wait until a hate crime has been committed but may act pre-emptively to 'prevent' crime."

Such cases already have developed in other nations, where the "progressive" effort to "advance" anti-discrimination laws are further down the road, he noted.

Peter LaBarbera, of Americans for Truth, noted that in Canada and France both, legislators have been fined for publicly criticizing homosexuality. Three years ago, a Swedish hate crimes law was used to put Pastor Ake Green, who preached that homosexuality is a sin, in jail for a month.

"And recently, a British couple told how they were denied the chance to adopt because it was determined that their Christian faith might 'prejudice' them against a homosexual child put in their care," LaBarbera added.

Already in the United States, Catholic Charities of Boston halted all adoption operations in the state after being told under Massachusetts' pro-'gay' nondiscrimination law, only agencies that placed children in homosexual-led households would get licensed by the state.

Pike said to get around the U.S. Constitution's demands for certain circumstances to exist before the federal government can intervene, the legislation blatantly adds the statement that hate crimes actually are "slavery."

"Violence motivated by bias is a relic of slavery that can constitute badges and incidents of slavery," the proposal proclaims.

Additionally, Pike notes, another "absurd ruse" is that "hate criminals affect interstate commerce, by terrorizing their victims into traveling across state lines – or not."

"Considering the pervasive influence of interstate commerce upon our lives, how often can the government meddle in local hate crimes enforcement? Any time," Pike wrote. "In fact, this ridiculous argument could be used to justify federal intervention in a crime of any kind, since any crime victim might be scared into different spending or traveling choices."

He said America's justice system requires proof of physical tangible damage before an arrest, but H.R. 254 changes that. "It seeks to establish a different 'bias motivation' justice system, which will be defined in courts by judges, as has happened in Canada."

"Judges will establish legal precedents – precedents that protect groups such as homosexuals not only from physical bias-motivated violence but also from 'verbal violence,'" Pike warned. "This will include the 'hate speech' of Bible-believing evangelical Christians.

"H.R. 254 thus does more than violate states' rights in law enforcement. It also leads inexorably to an end of free speech!" he wrote.

The plan, being supported by "the powerful Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith" is the seventh attempt to get such legislation turned into law just since 1998, Pike said. The bill is pending in the House Judiciary Committee, and is a streamlined version of earlier proposals that passed in the U.S. House.

LaBarbera noted that in "post-Christian England," the government even has set out to prosecute "homophobic" speech.

"It is almost inconceivable that the same country that gave us the rule of law and limited government – and powerfully gifted Christian preachers like George Whitfield who helped shape America – now bows down to the homosexual revolution of organized sin masquerading as 'civil rights,'" LaBarbera said.

"Is it progress to empower a legal and cultural revolution that criminalizes the common sense idea that society should put the welfare of children first by favoring natural parenting (mom and dad) over an experimental version (dad and male lover) that models perversion to innocent children in their own home?" asked LaBarbera.

He suggested a visit to www.StopHateCrimesNow.co m to hear the testimonies of those who have had first-had experience with so-called "hate crimes" laws. A 75-year-old grandmother describes how she was jailed for testifying about the Bible, in the United States.

"Prime Minister Tony Blair unwittingly cut to the nub of how 'sexual orientation' laws inevitably destroy religious freedom when he said that Britain's 'gay'-inclusive nondiscrimination laws should not exempt Catholic adoption agencies that refuse, for reasons of faith, to place children in homosexual households:" said LaBarbera.

“There is no place in our society for discrimination. That’s why I support the right of gay couples to apply to adopt like any other couple. And that way there can be no exemptions for faith-based adoption agencies offering public funded services from regulations that prevent discrimination," Blair had said.

Jackson-Lee's proposal states that "the incidence of violence motivated by the actual or perceived … sexual orientation … of the victim poses a serious national problem," and that "disrupts" communities. Since "existing federal law is inadequate" and "such violence affects interstate commerce" and "violence motivated by bias that is a relic of slavery can constitute badges and incidents of slavery," the thought police plan is needed.

Members who commented on a blog expressed alarm.

"This lays the groundwork for the 'thought police,'" said "onlymom," while "curveboy" said, "the implications of such a bill would put dissent of the government under hate speech and (offenders could) be arrested and thrown into detention camps... hate bill legislations needs to be dealt with in a fine line. once crossed there won't be any freedom of speech...."

"Citrine89" was more terse, "Scary stuff." And "Mochamoma" said, "Hurt someone's feelings? Shall we arrest the 6th graders now or later?"

At www.FaithAndFreedom.us a writer warned it was another attempt to "create new special rights for homosexuals."

And Mary Starrett, communications director for the Constitution Party, said "only strong public outcry and a Republican controlled Congress kept this type of legislation from becoming law" earlier. Now that Republican controlled Congress is gone.

"H.R. 254 would make certain types of speech a federal offense. So-called 'hate crimes' legislation is dangerous for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the blatant unconstitutionality of such laws. 'Hate crime' laws would allow federal 'thought police' to interfere in the law enforcement authority of states and localities - something our founders were clear was NOT to be allowed," she said.

"H.R. 254 would require every state to pass and enforce 'anti-hate' laws. It would outlaw stating a 'bias' against certain 'federally protected' groups such as homosexuals," she said.

Jim Clymer, national chairman of the party, has warned such legislation "could mean the Bible would be considered 'hate literature'' and preaching from it would be 'hate speech' because of references to religious teachings on homosexuality or other behaviors. The Orwellian implications of these types of laws mean Bible-believing Christians could become criminals simply because they spoke out about their beliefs."

Starrett noted in Canada and some European countries, it already is a crime to use the Internet to criticize "federally protected" groups such as homosexuals and Muslims. "In England, two men who called Islam 'wicked' were indicted … and now face seven years in prison."

A report by Concerned Women for America said the bill "sends the message that it is more hateful to kill a homosexual than a little child."

"This bill sets the table, and places us on a slippery slope toward religious persecution," said Matt Barber, CWA's policy director for cultural issues. "If it becomes law, it can easily be misapplied and used as a hammer against free speech.

"This bill attempts to get into the mind of the offender and penalize him for his thoughts. Are the bill's proponents going to now lobby for a Federal Department of Thought Enforcement?"

Repent America, some of whose members already have served jail time simply for proclaiming the biblical message, is joining in sounding the alarm.

"Having been charged under Pennsylvania's hate crimes law for declaring the truth about homosexuality, I can assure you that if this bill is passed and signed into law, it will be used to put Christians behind bars," said Marcavage.

columbusdude82

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2007, 11:18:36 PM »
Dude, who believes anything from worldnetdaily. They are biased nutjobs...

GroinkTropin

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2007, 11:20:34 PM »
Dude, who believes anything from worldnetdaily. They are biased nutjobs...

Thats actually reassuring, I've never heard of them before this article.

Deedee

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2007, 11:27:02 PM »
WorldNetDaily are crackpots...

Also, you're wrong about the usage of the word "gay." It didn't derive from a liberal plot to twist the original meaning of the word.

The word started to acquire sexual connotations in the late 17th century, being used with meaning "addicted to pleasures and dissipations". This was by extension from the primary meaning of "carefree": implying "uninhibited by moral constraints". By the late nineteenth century the term "gay life" was a well-established euphemism for prostitution and other forms of extramarital sexual behaviour that were perceived as immoral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2007, 11:38:01 PM »
Two Christians in Australia have been indicted for criticizing Islam

This is entirely true, MM.

The two Christan pastors in question were indicted by Victoria's highly controversial Racial and Religious Vilification Act.  The party that brought this to the attention of the tribunal were two Muslims in the audience of the pastors surmon, who had the sole intention of brining attention to what they (and the Victorian government) considered to be vilification of Islam.  They were there for this reason only.

But here's the best part - what was said about Islam that was so terrible that these two pastors should endure such embarassing allegations?

VCAT's Justice Michael Higgins in December ruled that Scot in particular had broken the Government's vilification laws by quoting the Koran in a way that got "a response from the audience at various times in the form of laughter".

Read more about this joke of a decision.  I have to live in Victoria while we have such backwards laws, it's nothing short of a joke.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20240491-25717,00.html
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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2007, 11:58:01 PM »
Gay Bashing, in any form through media, should be punishable by law just as racist slurs.

These should all go under some form of discrimination law.

The amount to pay in fines is another issue. But discriminating guys are just as bad "regular" discrimination.


BUT:

We also live in real world. All that fags want I suppose, is to not feel afraid and discriminated.

They want to be able to be as open as any of us hetero's with their choice of partners.

And why shouldn't they? Anyone who lives in a Western Civilized Democracy should acknowledge their rights to do just that, and oppose any hate crimes against guys.

Why fags are fruity in general, frequently speaks with a lisp et al, is a completely different topic, but I won't let that extremely irritating fact cloud my judgement.

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2007, 02:42:46 AM »
Gay Bashing, in any form through media, should be punishable by law just as racist slurs.

These should all go under some form of discrimination law.

The amount to pay in fines is another issue. But discriminating guys are just as bad "regular" discrimination.


BUT:

We also live in real world. All that fags want I suppose, is to not feel afraid and discriminated.

They want to be able to be as open as any of us hetero's with their choice of partners.

And why shouldn't they? Anyone who lives in a Western Civilized Democracy should acknowledge their rights to do just that, and oppose any hate crimes against guys.

Why fags are fruity in general, frequently speaks with a lisp et al, is a completely different topic, but I won't let that extremely irritating fact cloud my judgement.

-Hedge

In total agreement with you 100%
w

GroinkTropin

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2007, 03:42:13 AM »
This is entirely true, MM.

The two Christan pastors in question were indicted by Victoria's highly controversial Racial and Religious Vilification Act.  The party that brought this to the attention of the tribunal were two Muslims in the audience of the pastors surmon, who had the sole intention of brining attention to what they (and the Victorian government) considered to be vilification of Islam.  They were there for this reason only.

But here's the best part - what was said about Islam that was so terrible that these two pastors should endure such embarassing allegations?

VCAT's Justice Michael Higgins in December ruled that Scot in particular had broken the Government's vilification laws by quoting the Koran in a way that got "a response from the audience at various times in the form of laughter".

Read more about this joke of a decision.  I have to live in Victoria while we have such backwards laws, it's nothing short of a joke.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20240491-25717,00.html

Very disturbing, why do the people let this sort of thing happen?

Deedee

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2007, 07:34:17 AM »
Very disturbing, why do the people let this sort of thing happen?

This seems to be an older case, and in today's political climate, it's likely that the people won't, in fact, let this sort of thing happen. As of December '06, this is the skinny on the Australia case.

Two Australian pastors who were convicted of "vilifying" Muslims when they quoted from the Quran during a seminar on jihad have had their appeals upheld by the Victorian Supreme Court.

And while that means they will return to a lower court for another trial, that actually is a good result, according to a new report from Voice of the Martyrs.


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53526

That's from the same crackpots by the way.  ;)


As far as "hate laws" go, you seem very badly informed (as you were about the origin of the usage of the word "gay" to describe homosexuals). Most westernized countries have them.  You should google "hate laws" "holocaust revisionism" etc...  Although the intention of these laws is basically good, there are arguments that they can easily be abused to squash intellectual dissent. But I don't think that's the intention of your thread.

As far as the crackpots go, LOL, they've ALSO posted an article which claims that homosexuality is caused by drinking soy milk as babies.  If that's the case, then homosexuality is a medical handicap, rather than a selected deviant lifestyle.  You wouldn't vilify people who are relegated to wheelchairs, or who are diabetic, would you?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

Soy is feminizing, and commonly leads to a decrease in the size of the penis, sexual confusion and homosexuality. That's why most of the medical (not socio-spiritual) blame for today's rise in homosexuality must fall upon the rise in soy formula and other soy products. (Most babies are bottle-fed during some part of their infancy, and one-fourth of them are getting soy milk!)

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2007, 09:20:47 AM »
Gay Bashing, in any form through media, should be punishable by law just as racist slurs.

I absolutely disagree. We have freedom of speech here in America.  People have the right to think, believe, and say what they wish.  And others have the right to disagree, and consider the person an idiot for his discriminatory beliefs.

To make speech a criminal act simply because you disagree with the content is wrong and evil and unconstitutional.
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2007, 09:22:38 AM »
I like worldnetdaily ;D

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2007, 09:36:45 AM »
To make speech a criminal act simply because you disagree with the content is wrong and evil and unconstitutional.

Isn't it a crime to *say* the holocaust was fake, in Germany?

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2007, 09:41:24 AM »
Isn't it a crime to *say* the holocaust was fake, in Germany?

I believe so.  The Europeans gave up the concept of "free speech" long ago.  The US is really the only relatively free country left, and if we aren't vigilant that will change too.
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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2007, 09:49:34 AM »
I believe so.  The Europeans gave up the concept of "free speech" long ago.  The US is really the only relatively free country left, and if we aren't vigilant that will change too.

I wonder if it's also a crime to point out discrepencies in the *official story* of death counts, and the recent evidence showing those numbers to be scientifically impossible.

(Cue: Bruce declaring that questioning the 6 mil number = helping saddam)

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2007, 10:07:55 AM »
I wonder if it's also a crime to point out discrepencies in the *official story* of death counts, and the recent evidence showing those numbers to be scientifically impossible.

(Cue: Bruce declaring that questioning the 6 mil number = helping saddam)

I'm not sure about that... but have read in several places that the official numbers have been revised... wouldn't want to be quoted though. It is definitely a crime in Germany and France to deny the holocaust.

Deedee

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2007, 10:10:15 AM »
To make speech a criminal act simply because you disagree with the content is wrong and evil and unconstitutional.

I'm inclined to agree, specifically with regard to religious hate laws, but then what do you do about something like this?  Or does that fall under the heading of "incitement to riot?"

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1984530,00.html


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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2007, 10:13:16 AM »
I'm not sure about that... but have read in several places that the official numbers have been revised... wouldn't want to be quoted though. It is definitely a crime in Germany and France to deny the holocaust.

In any other war/slaughter, history is very open to revising the numbers as new evidence comes to light.

Except with WWII, which coincidentally would undermine the cause/cry of "we deserve israel".

Cause it wouldn't have been *awarded* with 5,000 deaths.  It would have been awarded to them for 6 million deaths.  The real number lies somewhere in the middle, of course.  But the motive is there to stretch it, and it's very curious they would put people in jail for questioning it.

(PS - anyone who starts the anti-semite accusations can go ahead and kiss my ass up front.  That knee jerk reaction to this topic - when all other topics are open for discussion - disgusts me and makes you look like you're in on the information suppression.)

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2007, 11:14:28 AM »
Gay Bashing, in any form through media, should be punishable by law just as racist slurs.

These should all go under some form of discrimination law.

The amount to pay in fines is another issue. But discriminating guys are just as bad "regular" discrimination.


Using a racial slur isn't a crime (depending on how and where it's done).  That's why Kramer isn't being prosecuted for any kind of crime.

In fact, wouldn't most homosexuals consider "guys" a slur?   :)

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2007, 12:35:54 PM »
Using a racial slur isn't a crime (depending on how and where it's done).  That's why Kramer isn't being prosecuted for any kind of crime.



It is in Europe, and if certain people get their way will be in the US, in violation of the Constitution.  Good thing Kramer wasn't performng in Stockholm or Berlin.
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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2007, 12:39:49 PM »
I'm inclined to agree, specifically with regard to religious hate laws, but then what do you do about something like this?  Or does that fall under the heading of "incitement to riot?"

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1984530,00.html



I think you answered your own question. This is covered by existing laws. Actively encouraging someone to commit a crime of violence is already against the law. That's not what we're talking about here, where you can be jailed simply for stating your opinion or using a word or words certain people don't like.
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2007, 01:58:48 PM »
I think you answered your own question. This is covered by existing laws. Actively encouraging someone to commit a crime of violence is already against the law. That's not what we're talking about here, where you can be jailed simply for stating your opinion or using a word or words certain people don't like.

Yes, but I was thinking about the crackpots... clearly their worry is that Rushdoony or whatever his name was, and some of the other fundamentalist christians who still call for "mandating the death penalty for homosexuals" etc... would be prosecuted.  Is there a difference between that and the situation in the UK? And if you accept one, shouldn't you accept the other?

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 03:03:16 PM »
I absolutely disagree. We have freedom of speech here in America.  People have the right to think, believe, and say what they wish.  And others have the right to disagree, and consider the person an idiot for his discriminatory beliefs.

To make speech a criminal act simply because you disagree with the content is wrong and evil and unconstitutional.
I agreee 100% with this guy.




I wonder if it's also a crime to point out discrepencies in the *official story* of death counts, and the recent evidence showing those numbers to be scientifically impossible.

(Cue: Bruce declaring that questioning the 6 mil number = helping saddam)

didn't I see a story awhile back about a Rabbi writing a book who said the number was much less, something like 300,000? I may be wrong but I think he caught alot of shit for writing that ???
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 03:07:20 PM »
didn't I see a story awhile back about a Rabbi writing a book who said the number was much less, something like 300,000? I may be wrong but I think he caught alot of shit for writing that ???

i believe scientifically, there wasn't even the fuel needed to incinerate the bodies in some of the places.

Remember the deatiled films of the horrors?  Some believe these were used to justify the number to set up camp in the middle east for the jewish and american access for later wars for oil.  They knew in 1945 that the oil we had would run out, we just didn't know when.  that is why its taboo to question anyting about the legitimacy about ISR - they're holding the door open for us aggression there in the future.  And it's also why any event is history is allowed for discussion - but you question the holocaust numbers - and people go apeshit.  Cause it would unravel the justification for setting up ISR. 

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2007, 03:48:56 PM »
These is an official revision... not part of the holocaust denier revisions.  Still a tragedy though.

In July 1990, the Polish government's Auschwitz State Museum, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, conceded that the four million figure was a gross exaggeration, and references to it were accordingly removed from the Auschwitz monument. Israeli and Polish officials announced a tentative revised toll of 1.1 million Auschwitz dead.

Y. Bauer, "Fighting the Distortions," The Jerusalem Post (Israel), Sept. 22, 1989; “Auschwitz Deaths Reduced to a Million," The Daily Telegraph (London), July 17, 1990; " Poland Reduces Auschwitz Death Toll Estimate to 1 Million," The Washington Times, July 17, 1990.

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Re: Diss a "gay", go to jail?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2007, 03:57:00 PM »
To keep it simple... If you wanna "diss" gay people... that's your right as an individual... the Government shouldn't do it, but any individual should be able to say whatever they wanna say. (I say this a very open minded person when it comes to your sexual preference... because I just don't give a damn)

If some group is trying to outlaw free speech in any way in the US, then I'd say this is fucked up... I can't imagine this bill passing.

Speaking of, who was the jackass who presented the bill? 

I'd like to slap his head off.