Author Topic: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat  (Read 9282 times)

Straw Man

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US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« on: April 13, 2009, 10:30:10 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5136050/US-religious-Right-concedes-defeat.html
US religious Right concedes defeat
America's religious Right has conceded that the election of US President Barack Obama has sealed its defeat in the cultural war with permissiveness and secularism.
By Alex Spillius in Washington

Leading evangelicals have admitted that their association with George W. Bush has not only hurt the cause of social conservatives but contributed to the failure of the key objectives of their 30-year struggle.

James Dobson, 72, who resigned recently as head of Focus on the Family - one of the largest Christian groups in the country - and once denounced the Harry Potter books as witchcraft, acknowledged the dramatic reverse for the religious Right in a farewell speech to staff.

“We tried to defend the unborn child, the dignity of the family, but it was a holding action,” he said.

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”

Despite changing the political agenda for a generation, and helping push the Republicans to the Right, evangelicals have won only minor victories in limiting the availability of abortion. Meanwhile the number of states permitting civil partnerships between homosexuals is rising, and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years - a decision that helped create the Moral Majority - has got nowhere.

Though the struggle will go on, the confession of Mr Dobson, who started his ministry from scratch in 1977, came amid growing concern that church attendance in the United States is heading the way of Britain, where no more than ten per cent worship every week.

Unease is rising that a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country will soon, like northern Europe, become “post-Christian”.

Recent surveys have suggested that the American religious landscape has shifted significantly. A study by Trinity College in Connecticut found that 11 per cent fewer Americans identify themselves as Christian than 20 years ago. Those stating no religious affiliation or declaring themselves agnostic has risen from 8.2 per cent in 1990 to 15 per cent in 2008.

Despite a common distaste among evangelicals for the new Democratic president, who is regarded as at best a die-hard, pro-abortion liberal and at worst a Marxist, a serious rift is emerging among social conservatives in the wake of his election victory.

A growing legion of disenchanted grassroots believers does not blame liberal opponents for the decline in faith or the failures of the religious Right. Rather, they hold responsible Republicans - particularly Mr Bush - and groups like Focus on the Family that have worked with the party, for courting Christian voters only to betray promises of pursuing the conservative agenda once in office.

“Conservatives became so obsessed with the political process we have forgotten the gospel,” said Steve Deace, an evangelical radio talk show host in Iowa who broadcast a recording of Mr Dobson’s address, which he said had appeared on Focus on the Family’s website before disappearing.

Mr Deace added: “All that time spent trying to sit at the top table is not time well spent. Republicans say one thing and do another.”

In the southern Bible belt, many like the Rev Joe Morecraft, head of a small Presbyterian church near Atlanta, judge that the Christian movement failed not because its views were unpalatable for moderates and liberals, but because “it was not Christian enough”.

A deserter from the Republican Party, he said Christians had been corrupted by politics and needed to return to the basics of local social work and preaching the gospel, rather than devoting their “energies to getting a few people elected”.

He is not alone in questioning how evangelical leaders such as Mr Dobson could spend a career campaigning against abortion and then eventually support a candidate like Senator John McCain, who has dubious “pro-life” credentials.

Ray Moore, president of Exodus Mandate, a South Carolina-based group which organises home-schooling for Christian children, said: “Political involvement by Christians is not wrong, but that’s all the big groups did for 25 years. They were more concerned with fund-raising and political power than they were with our children’s welfare.”

“It’s a failed movement,” he said. “We will end up like England, where the church has utterly lost its way.”

Michael Spencer, a writer who lives in a Christian community in Kentucky, said the religious Right had suffered from its identification with Mr Bush, the most unpopular president in living memory, and the extremist rhetoric of some on the religious Right.

One of the more notorious outbursts was the Rev John Hagee’s assertion that the deadly Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was God’s judgment on New Orleans for hosting a gay parade.

In an online article in the Christian Science Monitor that has became a touchstone for disaffected conservatives, Mr Spencer forecast a major collapse in evangelical Christianity within ten years.

“Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake,” he wrote.



Decker

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2009, 10:51:32 AM »
Fantastic news.  Progress can be made.  Let's hope this is not some unresolvable dialectic struggle where the pendulum swings forever.

Soul Crusher

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2009, 10:53:02 AM »
Fantastic news.  Progress can be made.  Let's hope this is not some unresolvable dialectic struggle where the pendulum swings forever.

This is not bad news.  The "religious right" has ridiculous demands on politicians.

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2009, 11:52:39 AM »
I'm sure some holy warrin' governor can rescue them.   

LurkerNoMore

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2009, 12:48:42 PM »
As I have stated, being religious is dying out among mainstream America. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 12:54:49 PM »
As I have stated, being religious is dying out among mainstream America. 

Contrary to what you may think, I am against religion influencing politics by and large.

Whether it be democrats who pimp pimp the black churches or the right pimping those mega churches out west, its wrong and stupid. 

headhuntersix

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2009, 12:56:21 PM »
As I have stated, being religious is dying out among mainstream America. 

Never happen in a million years.....no matter how much u hope so. They might not be so politically active, but not going anywhere.
L

Soul Crusher

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2009, 12:58:36 PM »
Never happen in a million years.....no matter how much u hope so. They might not be so politically active, but not going anywhere.

I dont like the "right wing" chruches demanding more social welfare programs and govt funded programs to push an agenda either. 

We need to cut back spending, not increase it for do-gooders of any political stripe.

Andy Griffin

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 01:03:59 PM »
I doubt anyone on either side is going to "stand down" on the issues.  I tend to subscribe more to things going in a "pendulum" that was mentioned a few posts earlier.  These things tend to be cyclical.

~

OzmO

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2009, 01:07:41 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5136050/US-religious-Right-concedes-defeat.html
US religious Right concedes defeat
America's religious Right has conceded that the election of US President Barack Obama has sealed its defeat in the cultural war with permissiveness and secularism.
By Alex Spillius in Washington

Leading evangelicals have admitted that their association with George W. Bush has not only hurt the cause of social conservatives but contributed to the failure of the key objectives of their 30-year struggle.

James Dobson, 72, who resigned recently as head of Focus on the Family - one of the largest Christian groups in the country - and once denounced the Harry Potter books as witchcraft, acknowledged the dramatic reverse for the religious Right in a farewell speech to staff.

“We tried to defend the unborn child, the dignity of the family, but it was a holding action,” he said.

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”

Despite changing the political agenda for a generation, and helping push the Republicans to the Right, evangelicals have won only minor victories in limiting the availability of abortion. Meanwhile the number of states permitting civil partnerships between homosexuals is rising, and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years - a decision that helped create the Moral Majority - has got nowhere.

Though the struggle will go on, the confession of Mr Dobson, who started his ministry from scratch in 1977, came amid growing concern that church attendance in the United States is heading the way of Britain, where no more than ten per cent worship every week.

Unease is rising that a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country will soon, like northern Europe, become “post-Christian”.

Recent surveys have suggested that the American religious landscape has shifted significantly. A study by Trinity College in Connecticut found that 11 per cent fewer Americans identify themselves as Christian than 20 years ago. Those stating no religious affiliation or declaring themselves agnostic has risen from 8.2 per cent in 1990 to 15 per cent in 2008.

Despite a common distaste among evangelicals for the new Democratic president, who is regarded as at best a die-hard, pro-abortion liberal and at worst a Marxist, a serious rift is emerging among social conservatives in the wake of his election victory.

A growing legion of disenchanted grassroots believers does not blame liberal opponents for the decline in faith or the failures of the religious Right. Rather, they hold responsible Republicans - particularly Mr Bush - and groups like Focus on the Family that have worked with the party, for courting Christian voters only to betray promises of pursuing the conservative agenda once in office.

“Conservatives became so obsessed with the political process we have forgotten the gospel,” said Steve Deace, an evangelical radio talk show host in Iowa who broadcast a recording of Mr Dobson’s address, which he said had appeared on Focus on the Family’s website before disappearing.

Mr Deace added: “All that time spent trying to sit at the top table is not time well spent. Republicans say one thing and do another.”

In the southern Bible belt, many like the Rev Joe Morecraft, head of a small Presbyterian church near Atlanta, judge that the Christian movement failed not because its views were unpalatable for moderates and liberals, but because “it was not Christian enough”.

A deserter from the Republican Party, he said Christians had been corrupted by politics and needed to return to the basics of local social work and preaching the gospel, rather than devoting their “energies to getting a few people elected”.

He is not alone in questioning how evangelical leaders such as Mr Dobson could spend a career campaigning against abortion and then eventually support a candidate like Senator John McCain, who has dubious “pro-life” credentials.

Ray Moore, president of Exodus Mandate, a South Carolina-based group which organises home-schooling for Christian children, said: “Political involvement by Christians is not wrong, but that’s all the big groups did for 25 years. They were more concerned with fund-raising and political power than they were with our children’s welfare.”

“It’s a failed movement,” he said. “We will end up like England, where the church has utterly lost its way.”

Michael Spencer, a writer who lives in a Christian community in Kentucky, said the religious Right had suffered from its identification with Mr Bush, the most unpopular president in living memory, and the extremist rhetoric of some on the religious Right.

One of the more notorious outbursts was the Rev John Hagee’s assertion that the deadly Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was God’s judgment on New Orleans for hosting a gay parade.

In an online article in the Christian Science Monitor that has became a touchstone for disaffected conservatives, Mr Spencer forecast a major collapse in evangelical Christianity within ten years.

“Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake,” he wrote.




Get over it already. 

Straw Man

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 01:26:58 PM »
Get over it already. 

Get over What?

This is mostly about Dobson stepping down and his own admission of his own perceived failures to influence politics in the US

OzmO

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2009, 01:46:04 PM »
Get over What?

This is mostly about Dobson stepping down and his own admission of his own perceived failures to influence politics in the US

Not you sir.    :)

Them.   ;D

Straw Man

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 04:33:49 PM »
Not you sir.    :)

Them.   ;D

oh - sorry about that.


LurkerNoMore

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2009, 07:09:41 PM »
Never happen in a million years.....no matter how much u hope so. They might not be so politically active, but not going anywhere.

You may wish so, but the fact of the matter is that people nowdays are more into being spiritual than religious.  And if you can't understand the difference between those, then there isn't any help for you.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2009, 07:20:57 PM »
Let me save Beach Bum some time...

 ::)
S

Straw Man

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2009, 09:44:14 PM »
Our President


Straw Man

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2009, 10:07:39 PM »
I doubt anyone on either side is going to "stand down" on the issues.  I tend to subscribe more to things going in a "pendulum" that was mentioned a few posts earlier.  These things tend to be cyclical.



i agree

"things" tend to oscillate around a mean

you can see that pattern happening over and over again


MCWAY

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2009, 09:09:59 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5136050/US-religious-Right-concedes-defeat.html
US religious Right concedes defeat
America's religious Right has conceded that the election of US President Barack Obama has sealed its defeat in the cultural war with permissiveness and secularism.
By Alex Spillius in Washington

Leading evangelicals have admitted that their association with George W. Bush has not only hurt the cause of social conservatives but contributed to the failure of the key objectives of their 30-year struggle.

James Dobson, 72, who resigned recently as head of Focus on the Family - one of the largest Christian groups in the country - and once denounced the Harry Potter books as witchcraft, acknowledged the dramatic reverse for the religious Right in a farewell speech to staff.

“We tried to defend the unborn child, the dignity of the family, but it was a holding action,” he said.

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”

Despite changing the political agenda for a generation, and helping push the Republicans to the Right, evangelicals have won only minor victories in limiting the availability of abortion. Meanwhile the number of states permitting civil partnerships between homosexuals is rising, and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years - a decision that helped create the Moral Majority - has got nowhere.

Though the struggle will go on, the confession of Mr Dobson, who started his ministry from scratch in 1977, came amid growing concern that church attendance in the United States is heading the way of Britain, where no more than ten per cent worship every week.

Unease is rising that a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country will soon, like northern Europe, become “post-Christian”.

Recent surveys have suggested that the American religious landscape has shifted significantly. A study by Trinity College in Connecticut found that 11 per cent fewer Americans identify themselves as Christian than 20 years ago. Those stating no religious affiliation or declaring themselves agnostic has risen from 8.2 per cent in 1990 to 15 per cent in 2008.

Despite a common distaste among evangelicals for the new Democratic president, who is regarded as at best a die-hard, pro-abortion liberal and at worst a Marxist, a serious rift is emerging among social conservatives in the wake of his election victory.

A growing legion of disenchanted grassroots believers does not blame liberal opponents for the decline in faith or the failures of the religious Right. Rather, they hold responsible Republicans - particularly Mr Bush - and groups like Focus on the Family that have worked with the party, for courting Christian voters only to betray promises of pursuing the conservative agenda once in office.

“Conservatives became so obsessed with the political process we have forgotten the gospel,” said Steve Deace, an evangelical radio talk show host in Iowa who broadcast a recording of Mr Dobson’s address, which he said had appeared on Focus on the Family’s website before disappearing.

Mr Deace added: “All that time spent trying to sit at the top table is not time well spent. Republicans say one thing and do another.”

In the southern Bible belt, many like the Rev Joe Morecraft, head of a small Presbyterian church near Atlanta, judge that the Christian movement failed not because its views were unpalatable for moderates and liberals, but because “it was not Christian enough”.

A deserter from the Republican Party, he said Christians had been corrupted by politics and needed to return to the basics of local social work and preaching the gospel, rather than devoting their “energies to getting a few people elected”.

He is not alone in questioning how evangelical leaders such as Mr Dobson could spend a career campaigning against abortion and then eventually support a candidate like Senator John McCain, who has dubious “pro-life” credentials.

Ray Moore, president of Exodus Mandate, a South Carolina-based group which organises home-schooling for Christian children, said: “Political involvement by Christians is not wrong, but that’s all the big groups did for 25 years. They were more concerned with fund-raising and political power than they were with our children’s welfare.”

“It’s a failed movement,” he said. “We will end up like England, where the church has utterly lost its way.”

Michael Spencer, a writer who lives in a Christian community in Kentucky, said the religious Right had suffered from its identification with Mr Bush, the most unpopular president in living memory, and the extremist rhetoric of some on the religious Right.

One of the more notorious outbursts was the Rev John Hagee’s assertion that the deadly Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was God’s judgment on New Orleans for hosting a gay parade.

In an online article in the Christian Science Monitor that has became a touchstone for disaffected conservatives, Mr Spencer forecast a major collapse in evangelical Christianity within ten years.

“Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake,” he wrote.

Once again, we have a classic case of a far-left media outlet from the UK, running an article, without stating the FULL CONTEXT of the statement.

This paper apparently didn’t bother posting the REST of that last statement of Dr. Dobson, which was:

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles. but God is in control and we are not going to give up now. . Humanly speaking, we can say that we have lost all those battles, but God is in control and we are not going to give up now, right?


The world has turned colder for the family in recent years and there is such hostility to anyone who holds to a faith and we're going to take the heat. But I have been assured by the board and by many of you that we're not going to cow, we're not going to be discouraged. We're going to continue to express the love for the Scripture and the principles that we find there and if we are made fools for Christ, that's okay too because our purpose is to serve him and that he be pleased.
[/b]

That don't sound like a concession speech to me. Perhaps these folks at Telegraph need to get some Q-Tips.

This article states that the number of states permitting gay “marriage” is rising. Of course, it conveniently forgets to mention that, in the past 5 years, the number of states with marriage amendments (clearly defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman) HAS INCREASED OVER SEVEN FOLD (from 4 in 2004 to 30 in 2009), including three states, added just six months ago: Florida, Arizona, and especially California.

The states that have allowed gay “marriage” all have left-leaning governments and (more importantly) are in places where the people can’t directly amend their constitution, without cutting through political red tape.

Dobson and conservatives have hardly given up the fight, regarding the culture war. And, Obama's victory has hardly sealed anything. A rally by the GOP in 2010 can change the complexion of Washington drastically. Of did this UK paper also forget that the Dems were in this EXACT same political position just four years ago?


Deicide

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2009, 09:41:27 AM »
Once again, we have a classic case of a far-left media outlet from the UK, running an article, without stating the FULL CONTEXT of the statement.

This paper apparently didn’t bother posting the REST of that last statement of Dr. Dobson, which was:

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles. but God is in control and we are not going to give up now.

This article states that the number of states permitting gay “marriage” is rising. Of course, it conveniently forgets to mention that, in the past 5 years, the number of states with marriage amendments (clearly defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman) HAS INCREASED OVER SEVEN FOLD (from 4 in 2004 to 30 in 2009), including three states, added just six months ago: Florida, Arizona, and especially California.

The states that have allowed gay “marriage” all have left-leaning governments and (more importantly) are in places where the people can’t directly amend their constitution, without cutting through political red tape.

Dobson and conservatives have hardly given up the fight, regarding the culture war. And, Obama's victory has hardly sealed anything. A rally by the GOP in 2010 can change the complexion of Washington drastically. Of did this UK paper also forget that the Dems were in this EXACT same political position just four years ago?



So do you hate gay people?
I hate the State.

MCWAY

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2009, 10:04:15 AM »
So do you hate gay people?

Nope!!! But, that's not the point of this thread.

This newspaper foolishly and erroneously claimed that Dobson has thrown in the towel, when it comes to the cutural issues of America. He has done nothing of the sort.

Nor has Obama's win "sealed" any defeat for him or others like him (Back to the marriage thing, Florida flipped from "red" to "blue"; yet, its marriage amendment passed 62-38). Obama was elected for one primary reason: The economy.

The reasons the GOP lost power in 2006 (just two years after amassing a larger majority, and Bush's re-election) were because of mad reckless spending, failure to live up to campaign promises, and a truckload of political scandals.

If the Dems follow suit (and they're off to a rousing start, so far), they can find themselves right back in the minority, just as quickly.

To top it all off, the claim about restoring prayer in schools getting nowhere is patently FALSE. Kids are allowed to pray in schools, as long as such is voluntary and student-led. A recent ruling in a Texas court allows for a "moment of silence" before school starts. Guess what kids can do, during that time, PRAY!!!




MCWAY

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2009, 10:19:03 AM »
You may wish so, but the fact of the matter is that people nowdays are more into being spiritual than religious.  And if you can't understand the difference between those, then there isn't any help for you.

That is little more than a PC euphemism for folks who don’t want to be held accountable to any standards of Biblical morality. As long as a particular belief system doesn't step on their proverbial toes, they think it's cool.

Much of the foolishess touted by proponents of "permissiveness and secularism" don't have a blessed thing to do with being spiritual.

They don’t mind going to church, as long as the preacher don’t tell them that fornication, adultery, greed, lust, homosexuality, covetousness, or materialism is sinful.

Straw Man

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2009, 10:53:55 AM »
That is little more than a PC euphemism for folks who don’t want to be held accountable to any standards of Biblical morality. As long as a particular belief system doesn't step on their proverbial toes, they think it's cool.

Much of the foolishess touted by proponents of "permissiveness and secularism" don't have a blessed thing to do with being spiritual.

They don’t mind going to church, as long as the preacher don’t tell them that fornication, adultery, greed, lust, homosexuality, covetousness, or materialism is sinful.

Clearly Dobson feels defeated and admits total failure (thus far) in the culture war that exists mostly inside his head.

He states that the religious right has lost all their "battles" and the war ain't looking too good either.

Quote
We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.”




tu_holmes

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2009, 11:08:56 AM »
Clearly Dobson feels defeated and admits total failure (thus far) in the culture war that exists mostly inside his head.

He states that the religious right has lost all their "battles" and the war ain't looking too good either.


It's about time he sees these things... Christianity in this country is not going anywhere, but the people are certainly tired of the minority  (The Christian right) being the loudest barkers and telling everyone in the country what to do.


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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2009, 11:23:58 AM »
My beef with the "religious right" is that they will vote for a fiscal socialist and huge spender so long as he is good on "abortion" and not vote for a candidate who is great on everythnig else as far as libertarian issues goes.

Its really stupid. 

tu_holmes

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Re: US Religious Right Concedes Defeat
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2009, 11:24:46 AM »
My beef with the "religious right" is that they will vote for a fiscal socialist and huge spender so long as he is good on "abortion" and not vote for a candidate who is great on everythnig else as far as libertarian issues goes.

Its really stupid. 

They don't care as long as they "get their God on".