Author Topic: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11  (Read 6855 times)

big L dawg

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2010, 08:52:43 AM »
Ok genius, for any part of your CT to hold true, that you need to put forth viable CT's for the penatago and PA as well.  What are those? 

That is what you guys who believe in the CT dont want to accept, because it blows your whole theory out of the water. 

For any part of the CT in one area to be true, the whole thing has to be true. 



Have you done the reseach on WTC 7 or not?If yes please explain your thoughts/conclusions...If not please try to restrain yourself from changing the subject & go do the research....
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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2010, 09:00:39 AM »
Have you done the reseach on WTC 7 or not?If yes please explain your thoughts/conclusions...If not please try to restrain yourself from changing the subject & go do the research....

Ok, lets do this again: 

For any part of the CT to be true, the whole thing has to be true.  Even assuming WTC7 is your "somking gun" you have to explain away the pentagon and the crash in PA as well, which you cant. 

To believe a CT of this magnitude, literally involving hundreds of people according to the theories you guys push, it impossible. 

Think about this, in 10 years:

1.  Not one whistelblower
2.  No one ever talked
3.  No one had a crisis on conscience.
4.  Not one person ever backed out of the plot and told authorities. 
5.  Not one person wrote a book or made a movies.
6.  not one security camera caught people rigging the building.
7.  Not one janitor or security guarde saw anything. 
8.  Not one worker saw anything. 
9.  Not one eyewitness.
10.  Not one spouse or relative of any plotter ever came forward to turn their spouse in. 
11.  No accounting for Barbara Olsen
12.  No accounting for the hundreds of dead passengers on the planes since some people claim the planes did not bring the building down. 
13.  No names of anyone you claim involved.
14.  No plausible theory incorporating the logistics of all three locations. 


Until you can explain the above without crack pot garbage, you will continue to be laughed at.   

big L dawg

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2010, 09:03:38 AM »
Ok, lets do this again: 

For any part of the CT to be true, the whole thing has to be true.  Even assuming WTC7 is your "somking gun" you have to explain away the pentagon and the crash in PA as well, which you cant. 

To believe a CT of this magnitude, literally involving hundreds of people according to the theories you guys push, it impossible. 

Think about this, in 10 years:

1.  Not one whistelblower
2.  No one ever talked
3.  No one had a crisis on conscience.
4.  Not one person ever backed out of the plot and told authorities. 
5.  Not one person wrote a book or made a movies.
6.  not one security camera caught people rigging the building.
7.  Not one janitor or security guarde saw anything. 
8.  Not one worker saw anything. 
9.  Not one eyewitness.
10.  Not one spouse or relative of any plotter ever came forward to turn their spouse in. 
11.  No accounting for Barbara Olsen
12.  No accounting for the hundreds of dead passengers on the planes since some people claim the planes did not bring the building down. 
13.  No names of anyone you claim involved.
14.  No plausible theory incorporating the logistics of all three locations. 


Until you can explain the above without crack pot garbage, you will continue to be laughed at.   

still nothing on WTC 7 huh....your silence on WTC 7 says it all...
DAWG

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2010, 09:07:08 AM »
Again - you are avoiding reality - even I assumed there was something fishy with WTC7 - the rest of everything has to be true and you need to explain those, which you cant. 

big L dawg

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2010, 09:11:19 AM »
Again - you are avoiding reality - even I assumed there was something fishy with WTC7 - the rest of everything has to be true and you need to explain those, which you cant. 

Still nothing on WTC 7 huh...well come talk after you do the research...I wont hold my breath...
DAWG

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2010, 09:13:04 AM »
Still nothing on WTC 7 huh...well come talk after you do the research...I wont hold my breath...


Watch this fool. 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b3_1200065998


big L dawg

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2010, 09:17:13 AM »

Watch this fool. 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b3_1200065998



I'll will when you do your WTC 7 research and post up your views/thoughts/& conclusions on the subject...
DAWG

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2010, 09:25:01 AM »
I'll will when you do your WTC 7 research and post up your views/thoughts/& conclusions on the subject...

Again - you so desperatately want this stupid theory to be true that you avoid the 800lb gorilla in fron of your face which I listed above.  

Is Popular Mechanic's engineers in on the CT now too?  

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5


big L dawg

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2010, 09:28:22 AM »
Again - you so desperatately want this stupid theory to be true that you avoid the 800lb gorilla in fron of your face which I listed above. 

Is Popular Mechanic's engineers in on the CT now too? 

So..still nothing huh...I could match you video for video or cut & paste as much as the next man...
DAWG

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2010, 09:28:58 AM »
Again - you so desperatately want this stupid theory to be true that you avoid the 800lb gorilla in fron of your face which I listed above.  

Is Popular Mechanic's engineers in on the CT now too?  

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5



thousands and thousands of people are in on the CT 3333, and they are all held to silence by the NSA and CIA.

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2010, 09:37:24 AM »

Watch this fool. 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b3_1200065998



Good link.  It's a shame people actually have to spend time and money debunking such nonsense. 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2010, 09:39:56 AM »
Again - you so desperatately want this stupid theory to be true that you avoid the 800lb gorilla in fron of your face which I listed above.  

Is Popular Mechanic's engineers in on the CT now too?  

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5



From the link (regarding debris):

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2010, 09:42:56 AM »
Look, I have said from day 1, I have no doubt that many inside this country would like to do a 911 style attack, but so far, the evidence, stupid CT's, etc put forth by the "Truthers" is embarassingly bad and pathetic. 

I have asked 240 for over a year to give me but one logistically plausible CT that incorporates everything and all three locations and I am still waiting. 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2010, 09:59:14 AM »
Look, I have said from day 1, I have no doubt that many inside this country would like to do a 911 style attack, but so far, the evidence, stupid CT's, etc put forth by the "Truthers" is embarassingly bad and pathetic.  

I have asked 240 for over a year to give me but one logistically plausible CT that incorporates everything and all three locations and I am still waiting.  

I agree.  I've had the same conversations.  The government is capable of doing bad, even evil, things, but this one is just dumb.  It would have to span multiple administrations, involve the military, the private sector, secret cooperation with terrorists, the secret landing and destruction of two airliners, the murder and deposal of hundreds of bodies, complete silence by everyone involved, etc., etc.  It really makes no sense at all.  This just shows the level of gullibility by so many.  

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2010, 10:03:23 AM »
I agree.  I've had the same conversations.  The government is capable of doing bad, even evil, things, but this one is just dumb.  It would have to span multiple administrations, involve the military, the private sector, secret cooperation with terrorists, the secret landing and destruction of two airliners, the murder and deposal of hundreds of bodies, complete silence by everyone involved, etc., etc.  It really makes no sense at all.  This just shows the level of gullibility by so many.  

The best part is that they get all pissed off when you point out basic facts and inconsistencies of their CT's, which arent even CT's since they dont even put for an alternative theory in the first place.  

I am still waiting to hear from them an explanation where Barbara Olsen is and if they thinkt he then Solicotor General of the USA, Ted Olsen is also in on this CT.  

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2010, 10:06:33 AM »
The best part is that they get all pissed off when you point out basic facts and inconsistencies of their CT's, which arent even CT's since they dont even put for an alternative theory in the first place.  

I am still waiting to hear from them an explanation where Barbara Olsen is and if they thinkt he then Solicotor General of the USA, Ted Olsen is also in on this CT.  

You haven't heard?  I asked the same question years ago and I believe it was 240 who said Barbara Olsen was secretly released overseas. 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2010, 10:10:43 AM »
I agree.  I've had the same conversations.  The government is capable of doing bad, even evil, things, but this one is just dumb.  It would have to span multiple administrations, involve the military, the private sector, secret cooperation with terrorists, the secret landing and destruction of two airliners, the murder and deposal of hundreds of bodies, complete silence by everyone involved, etc., etc.  It really makes no sense at all.  This just shows the level of gullibility by so many.  

I don't think gullibility.  Even very smart people will occasionally believe in CT's.  I think its a need to give a complex, greater than ordinary, explanation to tragic events.

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2010, 10:14:43 AM »
I don't think gullibility.  Even very smart people will occasionally believe in CT's.  I think its a need to give a complex, greater than ordinary, explanation to tragic events.

All i ever asked for were plausible alternative theories and so far, 9 YEARS LATER, nothing. 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2010, 10:17:19 AM »
I don't think gullibility.  Even very smart people will occasionally believe in CT's.  I think its a need to give a complex, greater than ordinary, explanation to tragic events.

True.  Probably a combination.  With some exceptions, things are usually as they appear to be. 

The very smart people I know who believe in CTs can at least give a plausible explanation for most of what they believe. 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2010, 10:21:45 AM »
True.  Probably a combination.  With some exceptions, things are usually as they appear to be. 

The very smart people I know who believe in CTs can at least give a plausible explanation for most of what they believe. 

This is wht that 911 "Truthers" refuse to understand.  Poking a hole here or there is fine, but for any part of their CT to work, the whole thing has to work, and that is where it usually collapses under its own weight. 

Ozmo posted a article about CT's a few months ago which fit the truthers to a tee. 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2010, 10:33:55 AM »
Dawg:

when you can dispute this paper on WTC7 come talk to me.  It addresses every crackpot theory on WTC7 you claim.  BTW did you know I am self employed?

http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf


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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2010, 10:52:56 AM »
This is wht that 911 "Truthers" refuse to understand.  Poking a hole here or there is fine, but for any part of their CT to work, the whole thing has to work, and that is where it usually collapses under its own weight. 

Ozmo posted a article about CT's a few months ago which fit the truthers to a tee. 

Was it this one?

10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2010, 10:57:04 AM »
Was it this one?

10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.

This is right on the money.  They're all true, especially no. 3 (inability to answer questions). 

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2010, 10:58:50 AM »
we have a bunch of flat-earth idiots jerking each other off here.


"oooh baby.  that's the spot, brotha!  round earth?  haha oh yeah right... the media lies and covers up Obama's lies and a secret NWO agenda, but they told us the truth on 9/11.... oh yeah, that's the spot bro..."

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Re: Ventura: ‘You’re not allowed to ask’ about 9/11
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2010, 10:59:48 AM »
This is right on the money.  They're all true, especially no. 3 (inability to answer questions). 

I have to give Samson Major props on #2.  I have never seen anyone as relentless as him, EVER.