Author Topic: Romney: We Don’t Need ‘More FIREMEN, More POLICEMEN, More TEACHERS’  (Read 7800 times)

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Really?  how do you know this?

I have a police scanner, read police briefs, etc...

At least 90 percent of calls are difficulty breathing, stomach pains, chest pains, or some kind of assault, all in the lowest income areas of town.  5 percent more are calls for smoke detectors going off in one of the taxpayer subsidized projects.  

Growing up we never called the police, fire, or ambulance and as far as I know they were never called anywhere in my neighborhood, except for a couple car wrecks and a house fire. (Normal, middle class area).

My grandpa lives in a neighborhood just like Walt on Gran Torino (decent area 20 years ago, now inundated with rental properties).  Go visit him, and you can sit on the porch and watch police, and fire race back and forth like it's an episode of cops.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63955
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
everyone needs a tax cut!!!

the govt needs to cut spending, not increase it like you and obama want to do!!!

Correct.  And those "rich" people liberals keep attacking include small business owners who drive the economy through job creation.  I think November should show how much the public dislikes class warfare.

garebear

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 6491
  • Never question my instincts.
Correct.  And those "rich" people liberals keep attacking include small business owners who drive the economy through job creation.  I think November should show how much the public dislikes class warfare.
Right. Trickle down economics worked under Reagan and both Bushes, then Clinton came a long and crashed the economy.

Not extending = raising.

If things aren't balanced on the backs of the working and the poor, and anyone points it out, that's "class warfare".

Did I miss anything?

G

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63955
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Right. Trickle down economics worked under Reagan and both Bushes, then Clinton came a long and crashed the economy.

Not extending = raising.

If things aren't balanced on the backs of the working and the poor, and anyone points it out, that's "class warfare".

Did I miss anything?



You missed quite a bit.  "The poor" don't pay income taxes.  Everyone in the workforce "works."

Class warfare is piiting one group against another.  It's demonizing success. It's telling the lie that "the rich" don't pay their fair share; that raising taxes will fix the economy. We're all in this together.

The fact is private sector business drives the economy and small business accounts for a substantial part of that growth.  Trying to punish them will not get us out if this mess. 

We spend too much friggin money.  That's the problem. 

doison

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3448
  • Rum Ham
Romney will have to stand on national TV and tell the cameras two things:

1) We don't need more cops, firefighters, ,firefighters.

and

2) We do need to give larger tax cuts to people making over $1mil per year.

Now, if you're a new florida teacher, in the midst of a hiring freeze, how do you support this?

Is the answer "you don't support it, you demand that the struggling private sector employees give you even more of their ever-decreasing-in-purchasing-power income and vote for the other guy just like you'll continue to do until someone running for office finally has the balls to stop pandering to the selfish morons like you -who join OWS and protest against economic inequalities...as long as YOU get to keep every unaffordable benefit you can suck from the public teet?"



Y

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
paul ryan's tax plan doesn't give EVERYONE a tax cut though.  He think you give a bigger break to millionaires, they'll put the $ back into the US economy.

They're not doing it now.  They're buying gold and silver and putting plants for mnfg onthe other hemisphere.  Ryan sucks up to millionaire donors, that's what this is.  Romney HAD to endorse the plan, even though he ran from that first version of it.  Santorum farced his hand - now he has to stay with it.  Give $1mil earners a tax break but not everyone else.  Good luck selling that.  SuperPAC fault.
so you believe the answer is taxing the "rich" and employing more govt workers?

LMFAO!!!

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
so you believe the answer is taxing the "rich" and employing more govt workers?

LMFAO!!!

stop making assumptions.

I have already agreed romney is right that we don't need more of these public jobs.
I disagree with him that we need tax cuts for those making $1mil or more.

He's half-right.

So please don't just make up positions for me.  I pointed out in 2008 that no candidate usually admits WHICH items they'll cut, as that results in instant loss of voting blocs. 

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
stop making assumptions.

I have already agreed romney is right that we don't need more of these public jobs.
I disagree with him that we need tax cuts for those making $1mil or more.

He's half-right.

So please don't just make up positions for me.  I pointed out in 2008 that no candidate usually admits WHICH items they'll cut, as that results in instant loss of voting blocs. 
LOL if it bothers you so much, why do you do it so much?

so if we arent hiring new workers and we can all agree that govt spending needs to be cut, why do we need to raise taxes again?

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
LOL if it bothers you so much, why do you do it so much?

so if we arent hiring new workers and we can all agree that govt spending needs to be cut, why do we need to raise taxes again?

where did I say we need to RAISE taxes?

What you smoking on?   I'm fine with leaving bush tax cuts in place, they were good enough for rich ppl in the 2000s, and so good in fact that the owners of companies shipped jobs overseas and put all the $ they saved into foreign currency and precious metals.

So how about we 1) leave taxes alone 2) don't give breaks to those making $1mil and 3) don't hire new police, fd, and teachers?

Are we in agreement there?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
where did I say we need to RAISE taxes?

What you smoking on?   I'm fine with leaving bush tax cuts in place, they were good enough for rich ppl in the 2000s, and so good in fact that the owners of companies shipped jobs overseas and put all the $ they saved into foreign currency and precious metals.

So how about we 1) leave taxes alone 2) don't give breaks to those making $1mil and 3) don't hire new police, fd, and teachers?

Are we in agreement there?
LOL no, how about we cut spending and cut taxes for EVERYONE!!!

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39816
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Free Republic
Browse · Search   Pings · Mail   News/Activism
Topics · Post Article
Skip to comments.

The End Nears for a 50-Year Mistake (public sector unions)
Townhall ^ | 6-10-2012 | Jeff Jacoby
Posted on June 10, 2012 8:39:15 PM EDT by smoothsailing

June 10, 2012

The End Nears for a 50-Year Mistake

Jeff Jacoby

In retrospect, there were two conspicuous giveaways that Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was headed for victory in last week's recall election.

One was that the Democrats' campaign against him wound up focusing on just about everything but Walker's law limiting collective bargaining rights for government workers. Sixteen months ago, the Capitol building in Madison was besieged by rioting protesters hell-bent on blocking the changes by any means necessary. Union members and their supporters, incandescent with rage, likened Walker to Adolf Hitler and cheered as Democratic lawmakers fled the state in a bid to force the legislature to a standstill. Once the bill passed, unions and Democrats vowed revenge, and amassed a million signatures on recall petitions.

But the more voters saw of the law's effects, the more they liked it. Dozens of school districts reported millions in savings, most without resorting to layoffs. Property taxes fell. A $3.6 billion state budget deficit turned into a $154 million projected surplus. Walker's measures proved a tonic for the economy, and support for restoring the status quo ante faded -- even among Wisconsin Democrats. Long before Election Day, Democratic challenger Tom Barrett had all but dropped the issue of public-sector collective bargaining from his campaign to replace Walker.

The second harbinger was the plunge in public-employee union membership. The most important of Walker's reforms, the change Big Labor had fought most bitterly, was ending the automatic withholding of union dues. That made union membership a matter of choice, not compulsion -- and tens of thousands of government workers chose to toss their union cards. More than one-third of the American Federation of Teachers Wisconsin membership quit, reported The Wall Street Journal. At the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, one of the state's largest unions, the hemorrhaging was worse: AFSCME's Wisconsin rolls shrank by more than 34,000 over the past year, a 55 percent nose-dive.

Did government workers tear up their union cards solely because the union had lost its right to bargain collectively on their behalf? That's doubtful: Even under the new law, unions still negotiate over salaries. More likely, public-sector employees ditched their unions for the same reasons so many employees in the private sector -- which is now less than 7 percent unionized -- have done so. Many never wanted to join a union in the first place. Others were repelled by the authoritarian, belligerent, and left-wing political culture that entrenched unionism so often embodies.

Even before the votes in Wisconsin were cast, observed Michael Barone last week, Democrats and public-employee unions "had already lost the battle of ideas over the issue that sparked the recall." Their tantrums and slanders didn't just fail to intimidate Walker and Wisconsin lawmakers from reining in public-sector collective bargaining. They also gave the public a good hard look at what government unionism is apt to descend to. The past 16 months amounted to an extended seminar on the danger of combining collective bargaining with government jobs. Voters watched -- and learned.

There was a time when pro-labor political leaders like Franklin D. Roosevelt and Fiorello LaGuardia regarded it as obvious that collective bargaining was incompatible with public employment. Even the legendary AFL-CIO leader George Meany once took it for granted that there could be no "right" to bargain collectively with the government.

When unions bargain with management in the private sector, both sides are contending for a share of the private profits that labor helps produce -- and both sides are constrained by the pressures of market discipline. Managers can't ignore the company's bottom line. Unions know that if they demand too much they may cost the company its competitive edge.

But when labor and management bargain in the public sector, they are divvying up public funds, not private profits. Government bureaucrats don't have to worry about losing business to their competitors; state agencies can't relocate to another part of the country. There is little incentive to hold down wages and benefits, since the taxpayers who will be picking up the tab have no seat at the table. On the other hand, government managers have a powerful motivation to yield to government unions: Union members vote, and their votes can be deployed to reward politicians who give them what they want -- or punish those who don't.

In 1959, when Wisconsin became the first state to enact a public-sector collective-bargaining law, it wasn't widely understood what the distorted incentives of government unionism would lead to. Five decades later, the wreckage is all around us. The privileges that come with government work -- hefty automatic pay raises, Cadillac pension plans, iron-clad job security, ultra-deluxe health insurance -- have in many cases grown outlandish and staggeringly unaffordable. What Keith Geiger, the former head of the National Education Association, once referred to as "our sledgehammer, the collective bargaining process," has wreaked havoc on state and municipal budgets nationwide.

Now, at long last, the pendulum has reversed. The 50-year mistake of public-sector unions is being corrected. Walker's victory is a heartening reminder that in a democracy, even the most entrenched bad ideas can sometimes be unentrenched. On, Wisconsin!

Jeff Jacoby

Jeff Jacoby is an Op-Ed writer for the Boston Globe, a radio political commentator, and a contributing columnist for Townhall.com.






Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
You missed quite a bit.  "The poor" don't pay income taxes.  Everyone in the workforce "works."

Class warfare is piiting one group against another.  It's demonizing success. It's telling the lie that "the rich" don't pay their fair share; that raising taxes will fix the economy. We're all in this together.

The fact is private sector business drives the economy and small business accounts for a substantial part of that growth.  Trying to punish them will not get us out if this mess. 

We spend too much friggin money.  That's the problem. 



lol...*crickets*

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
i heard toinght something like 250,000 teachers have lost their jobs in the last 2 years.

I can't imagine any of them agree with romney that we don't need more teachers.

JBGRAY

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2038
Firefighters and police generally make way too much money anyway with their fat pensions, healthcare, and excessive overtime.  Their jobs aren't as difficult or heroic as you may think.  Government needs to be more in line with what a comparable employee makes in the private sector with similar healthcare and retirement options.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39816
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
City Pays Public Safety Officers Nearly Twice Residents' Incomes, Repeatedly Requests Tax Hikes
 Michigan Capitol Confidential ^ | 6/10/2012 | Tom Gantert

Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:55:38 PM by MichCapCon

The average salary of Oak Park Public Safety employees was $86,050 in fiscal year 2010-11, far more than the median household income of $48,476.

To help pay those salaries, residents in the city of about 29,000 have twice in the last two years approved tax increases for the Public Safety department. Voters were told previously that the overall city work force was "cut by about a third in the last four years," but an analysis by Capitol Confidential showed that to be false.

Yet, 11 of the 63 members of the public safety department made $100,000 or more in the fiscal year 2010-11. A sergeant who grossed $152,606 was the highest paid in the department.

"Things like this are why Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker defeated a government-employee recall attempt by a large margin," said Jack McHugh, legislative policy analyst for the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. "This is an example of government employees collecting benefits that far exceed anything that most of the private sector neighbors get."

On Feb. 22, 2011, Oak Park residents approved a 1-mill millage that runs through 2020. Then on May 8, voters approved another 1.14 mill millage that runs through 2021.

Oak Park Mayor Marian McClellan and City Manager Rick Fox didn’t return emails seeking comment.





________________________ ________________________ _____________________


This is why Mittens is going to landslide Barack Obamadashian.   People are sick of the govt. employee union thugs.       

polychronopolous

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19041
Can someone explain why the sudden need to go out and hire more firemen??




Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39816
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Illinois state worker faked triplets to get extra food stamps
Michael Berry ^ | 6/12/2012 | Michael Berry




An Illinois caseworker who fabricated triplets so her boyfriend could receive extra food stamps was Monday sentenced to 30 days in jail.

Ebony Martin, 34, was employed at the Illinois Department of Human Services when she created a phony state file for her boyfriend, 38-year-old Keith Jones, the Chicago Sun-Times reported.

In it she provided the names and Social Security numbers of fictitious triplets so Jones could receive more government food assistance, prosecutors said.


(Excerpt) Read more at michaelberry.iheart.com ...

GigantorX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6371
  • GetBig's A-Team is the Light of Truth!
i heard toinght something like 250,000 teachers have lost their jobs in the last 2 years.

I can't imagine any of them agree with romney that we don't need more teachers.

Uh what? We have 250,000 teachers who aren't employed. If they are needed they will find work in their chosen field.

There is a pool of 250k teachers in this country with many thousands more coming out of college..............we have enough teachers.

Christ almighty.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
we have enough teachers.

Christ almighty.

cracked me up.......

 ;D

my fat cousin is interested in teaching...........  spend eight hours a day with shitty ass, germy, snot nosed kids that hate you and talk shit about you...

No thanks....

War-Horse

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6490
Holy shit. I just read this thread and 33 and beachbum still have the tunnelvision of a fat kid in a candy store.
240 spelled it out 3 or 4 times for you idiots and you still went back to "So you want more govt employees"!!!!
Wheres the balance on this board? Only a few here can look past limbaughs bullshit rants and see the middle road...something that works for everyone..GOOD GAWD. ::)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39816
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Holy shit. I just read this thread and 33 and beachbum still have the tunnelvision of a fat kid in a candy store.
240 spelled it out 3 or 4 times for you idiots and you still went back to "So you want more govt employees"!!!!
Wheres the balance on this board? Only a few here can look past limbaughs bullshit rants and see the middle road...something that works for everyone..GOOD GAWD. ::)

Its called reality moron. 

If the states are broke and cant afford existing obligations, you think the answer is to go deeper in debt to pay for public sector workers?


GMAFB 

 

GigantorX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6371
  • GetBig's A-Team is the Light of Truth!
cracked me up.......

 ;D

my fat cousin is interested in teaching...........  spend eight hours a day with shitty ass, germy, snot nosed kids that hate you and talk shit about you...

No thanks....

I have my teaching certificate in a file cabinet somewhere in my house...I was cut years ago, got a job in sales and never looked back. Teaching isn't easy, but it's easy for a shitty teacher to get a job and keep it.

The current public education system is hostile to open minds, free thinking, education and good teachers. Count me out.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Rudy would have NEVER said "we don't need more firefighters or police" lol.

Obama attacking him because he doesn't want to hire more FIRST RESPONDERS.

What a stupid thing to say.  First he says we don't need more - THEN he laughs it off by saying it's a state/local thing anyway, doesn't affect president.

he criticizes Obama for wanting more police, firefighters, teachers - THEN he pretends it has nothing to do with presidency anyway.

He can't have it both way - scoring points off obama for it, then pretending it's not a presidential task anyway.  it's like making fun of a girl for being a whore, then laughing at her for sill being a virgin.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
I have my teaching certificate in a file cabinet somewhere in my house...I was cut years ago, got a job in sales and never looked back. Teaching isn't easy, but it's easy for a shitty teacher to get a job and keep it.

The current public education system is hostile to open minds, free thinking, education and good teachers. Count me out.

I probably have a bad image of teaching/teachers because of the Public School System in my area.  I should take pictures of my old High School, you guys would probably think it was some abandoned prison or something.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
The funny part is that Romney pointed to Wisconsin as the example in order to defend his remarks and yet even the Governor of Wisconsin doesn't agrew with Romney on this and has said so publicy