Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Top Poodle on October 01, 2017, 05:06:30 PM
-
I thought islam was okay, didn't really mind it before, it's much better than the pure evil neomarxist leftist garbage going on today.
Then I discovered, this morning, that allah is satan, according to the oldest writings of all time, the sumerian tablets.
He's also transgender, allah+allotah were the male/female entities in one body
THE MORE YOU KNOW!*
-
I thought islam was okay, didn't really mind it before, it's much better than the pure evil neomarxist leftist garbage going on today.
Then I discovered, this morning, that allah is satan, according to the oldest writings of all time, the sumerian tablets.
He's also transgender, allah+allotah were the male/female entities in one body
THE MORE YOU KNOW!*
Never stop hungering for knowledge.
-
the general section is where knowledge goes to die :-\
-
I firmly believe Islam is a spiritual warfare strategy employed by the demonic enemies of God to confuse people into falling away from Christ.
Fortunately, Allah (and any other gods) is a non-issue as there is only one God and he is the God of the bible made plain to mankind in Jesus Christ.
In short, Satan is Satan and Allah is false.
-
I firmly believe Islam is a spiritual warfare strategy employed by the demonic enemies of God to confuse people into falling away from Christ.
Fortunately, Allah (and any other gods) is a non-issue as there is only one God and he is the God of the bible made plain to mankind in Jesus Christ.
In short, Satan is Satan and Allah is false.
Allah is satan, they try to portray it as him being the Abrahamic God, but it's all deception and false.
World is owned by Satan, which is interesting to think about. This could actually be THE hell. When you die and go to hell, you just come back here -- Satan's world.
1. Muslims worship Allah who is satan, and it's the fastest growing religion on earth, with 25% of the population in it now
2. Transgenderism is pure evil, so the secular parts of the world that support it are satanic by default. Ditto gay marriage, though not as bad.
3. Illuminati worship Lucifer, believe in them or not, doesn't matter, they control the bankers and politicians and so the rest of the world.
Hence the entire world is owned by Satan.
WHICH IS DAMN COOL TO REALIZE
Doesn't mean it's pointless or anything, you just seclude yourself from the evil and stay pure and you'll be fine
Catholic Christianity is badly corrupted, Orthodox less so, in fact i think Orthodox is most pure religion out there now but it's still been changed and perverted by humans
So organized religion as a whole was good at one point, from the spiritual sense, but now has been changed and manipulated and mostly lost.
But people need religion, from a social perspective, otherwise they turn to idiocy like transgenderism and all the leftist garbage, and have no standards or morals or values, and it becomes disastrous.
Anyway, the sumerian tablets are damn cool, REAL religion is damn cool, but you have to find it yourself, not through the church, not anymore, that's all commercialized and corrupt
Obviously there are parts in there that are good but you have to be an independent thinker, not a cultist
-
I firmly believe Islam is a spiritual warfare strategy employed by the demonic enemies of God to confuse people into falling away from Christ.
Exactly, by worshipping satan
Here's a great little summary I found:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/allah-really-satan-patrick-bishop-seo-expert-
-
Allah is satan, they try to portray it as him being the Abrahamic God, but it's all deception and false.
World is owned by Satan, which is interesting to think about. This could actually be THE hell. When you die and go to hell, you just come back here -- Satan's world.
1. Muslims worship Allah who is satan, and it's the fastest growing religion on earth, with 25% of the population in it now
2. Transgenderism is pure evil, so the secular parts of the world that support it are satanic by default. Ditto gay marriage, though not as bad.
3. Illuminati worship Lucifer, believe in them or not, doesn't matter, they control the bankers and politicians and so the rest of the world.
Hence the entire world is owned by Satan.
WHICH IS DAMN COOL TO REALIZE
Doesn't mean it's pointless or anything, you just seclude yourself from the evil and stay pure and you'll be fine
Catholic Christianity is badly corrupted, Orthodox less so, in fact i think Orthodox is most pure religion out there now but it's still been changed and perverted by humans
So organized religion as a whole was good at one point, from the spiritual sense, but now has been changed and manipulated and mostly lost.
But people need religion, from a social perspective, otherwise they turn to idiocy like transgenderism and all the leftist garbage, and have no standards or morals or values, and it becomes disastrous.
Anyway, the sumerian tablets are damn cool, REAL religion is damn cool, but you have to find it yourself, not through the church, not anymore, that's all commercialized and corrupt
Obviously there are parts in there that are good but you have to be an independent thinker, not a cultist
I give no credence to any other "god" and Satan (although given dominion over this world) is not a god of anything. His time is temporary and merely allowed.
This earth is not hell as this earth will be destroyed. Hell is a place in which all the attributes of God are removed.
RC is absolutely corrupted, but Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics. Now I do believe there are some within the Catholic church that have genuine faith and salvation in Christ without the influence of the papacy or teaching magisterium. Those same folks are technically not Catholic. Can I quantify that number? No.
Most of today's churches do preach a very soft message. Gospel of Christ is grace and wrath. Majority of today's churches only speak on grace. Although the church is not a building or an organization. The church is the body of believers that follow the will of our Lord.
I agree with many of the other points you made.
-
I give no credence to any other "god" and Satan (although given dominion over this world) is not a god of anything. His time is temporary and merely allowed.
This earth is not hell as this earth will be destroyed. Hell is a place in which all the attributes of God are removed.
RC is absolutely corrupted, but Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics. Now I do believe there are some within the Catholic church that have genuine faith and salvation in Christ without the influence of the papacy or teaching magisterium. Those same folks are technically not Catholic. Can I quantify that number? No.
Most of today's churches do preach a very soft message. Gospel of Christ is grace and wrath. Majority of today's churches only speak on grace. Although the church is not a building or an organization. The church is the body of believers that follow the will of our Lord.
I agree with many of the other points you made.
who knows if this earth is going to be destroyed or not. with the way the media's been proven to be absolutely false, and with the completely false teachings in schools about climate change, global warming, now transgenderism, i'm not giving much credence to other "scientific" theories
(this is coming from a guy who went to the best university in the world for two years before quitting because it was all a fucking sham, illusion, deception, false)
explain the bold please, especially the wrath part. i grew up completely secular and am now playing catch up. born into orthodox family but we moved to canada and this is the land where spirit goes to die.
as for this part:
"I give no credence to any other "god" and Satan (although given dominion over this world) is not a god of anything. His time is temporary and merely allowed."
i don't know how that's at odds with anything. satan is not god but people worship him AS god, giving him dominion over this earth. there is one god (or maybe multiple entities making up one, much as we're are multiple entities, ie cells, making up one body, or even the symbiotic relationshp between gut bacteria and our brain, etc etc, doesn't really matter this is just mindwank) and he is not satan, but satan is being worshiped as god by people who have been deceived or have accepted evil (transgenderism for example), etc
-
who knows if this earth is going to be destroyed or not. with the way the media's been proven to be absolutely false, and with the completely false teachings in schools about climate change, global warming, now transgenderism, i'm not giving much credence to other "scientific" theories
(this is coming from a guy who went to the best university in the world for two years before quitting because it was all a fucking sham, illusion, deception, false)
explain the bold please, especially the wrath part. i grew up completely secular and am now playing catch up. born into orthodox family but we moved to canada and this is the land where spirit goes to die.
as for this part:
"I give no credence to any other "god" and Satan (although given dominion over this world) is not a god of anything. His time is temporary and merely allowed."
i don't know how that's at odds with anything. satan is not god but people worship him AS god, giving him dominion over this earth. there is one god (or maybe multiple entities making up one, much as we're are multiple entities, ie cells, making up one body, or even the symbiotic relationshp between gut bacteria and our brain, etc etc, doesn't really matter this is just mindwank) and he is not satan, but satan is being worshiped as god by people who have been deceived or have accepted evil (transgenderism for example), etc
It's a good question. As believers in Christ we know the definitive reality of God via the Holy Spirit that indwells us. Given his fulfillment of salvation and relationship as outlined in scripture with his body of believers (the church) our individual and collective faith is solidified and therefore we can also trust faithfully in his prophetic scripture as it pertains to the end of this world....the things yet to come. He will destroy this world and create a new one as outlined in the same scripture that has already demonstrated itself as correct.
Here is the contents of the stickied thread about the gospel message:
I wanted to post this message and sticky it at the top of the board just in case I'm gone and anyone seeking to know the risen Lord and God Jesus Christ had questions about how to do so.
The gospel message (or "good news") is quite simple in that Jesus Christ died on Calvary's cross to pay for humanity's sins so that we may escape God's wrath and judgment and be forever aligned with him in righteousness. This sacrificial, loving act of God is his greatest gift to his creation.
The path to salvation is expressed nicely in Romans 10:9:
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved
Saved from what? You're saved from God's wrath and judgment that every one of us deserves because of our sin. We have all fallen short of God's standards for us and have willfully and woefully chosen to defy him in sin. We deserve to be separated from his righteousness and his divine attributes once we exit this life.
What is sin? Sin is an offense against God. It's a violation of his divine, eternal law.
Some of you may desire to know the reality of God in your lives. Others may desire to turn away from their current life, turn from their sin and get right with God and be aligned with him in righteousness.
If that is you, simply come to the Lord in prayer. If you've never prayed before that's perfectly alright. If you can, go to a quiet, private spot and speak your heart to God humbly. Confess your sins before him, ask him for forgiveness, surrender to his will for your life and simply believe that Jesus Christ's death on Calvary's cross was sufficient to pay for your sins and by declaring him as your Lord and believing that he is raised from the dead know that you are forever saved.
From that point forward you are now made a new creature in Christ Jesus and are filled with the Holy Spirit of God who will guide your righteous path for the remainder of your days on this earth. Once you exit this life you will spend eternity with our blessed God, Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
If you need help you can PM me and I'd be happy to help as best I'm able. I encourage everyone to give their heart....give their lives to Jesus! It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved.
God bless you!!
MOS
True Satan is worshipped as a god, but he is not a god. He is a divinely created being that fell from grace. The nature of God is divinity and God expresses that divine nature via three coequal, coeternal persons in Father, Son and Spirit....all equal yet differently purposed yet one God.
-
He will destroy this world and create a new one as outlined in the same scripture that has already demonstrated itself as correct.
wait sorry is that an answer to the "wrath" part?
-
Stupid vs Stupid(er)
-
Stupid vs Stupid(er)
wut
-
If you watch some video interviews about people who were clinicaly dead and came bak to life, they all claim that mohamed worshippers are going to burn in hell for eternity.
-
If you watch some video interviews about people who were clinicaly dead and came bak to life, they all claim that mohamed worshippers are going to burn in hell for eternity.
Are you sure? Seems like something someone who has issues with Muslims/Islam invented. Just so you know, it is Muhammad the prophet of Islam, not mohamed.
-
to falco:
yes, absolutely. didn't know that but it makes perfect sense, seeing as the koran explicitly states EVERY MUSLIM WILL GO TO HELL FIRST, AND THEN ALLAH (SATAN) WILL CHOOSE WHO WILL GO TO THE GARDEN (HEAVEN)... meaning, NOBODY WILL GO.
to primer:
open your eyes a bit bro. different spellings of mohammed are all acceptable
to falco:
the koran also says the only way to be guaranteed access to the garden (it's called the garden, not heaven, which makes me suspect it's some further perversion of satan), IS TO COMMIT JIHAD AND KILL OTHERS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
so only way to go to the garden is to be a jihadi. all other muzzies burn in hell.
THIS IS LITERALLY WRITTEN IN THE KORAN
-
Are you sure? Seems like something someone who has issues with Muslims/Islam invented. Just so you know, it is Muhammad the prophet of Islam, not mohamed.
English is not my first language, specially in matters related to goatfucking and pedophilia.
-
Stupid vs Stupid(er)
How bout you set us straight rather than just hit and run like a trolling coward.
Clearly you have insights and information that we do not. Do tell...I dare ya.
-
wait sorry is that an answer to the "wrath" part?
Sorry to confuse. That was more in reference to the "end of the world" part.
The "wrath" part of the gospel message of "grace and wrath" is the judgement of God.
That final judgement in which the Son of God in Jesus Christ will confirm or deny each of us as part of his body of believers. Our belief again based upon a public profession of faith in Christ's salvific work on Calvary's cross.
Those that reject God will face the wrath of his judgement via eternal separation from him in hell. Essentially an existence in which all attributes of God are removed and what you are left with is everything that is not a reflection of God's divine nature.
People often make the mistake of assuming that "Well, with God gone I can just engage in all the sinful pleasures I want and party in hell! Hey, all my friends will be there!! WOO-HOO!!" The problem with that is that our very existence today in which we can elicit pleasure from even sinful behaviors is granted by God. He has sovereignly ordained this life so that we can enjoy another breath, another day of sunshine, another bite of our favorite food, another feeling of hope, the elation of solving a difficult problem, another feeling of joy from being with our loved ones, even the high from drugs/alcohol.....every bit of that is an extension of God's nature. Even if he doesn't agree with any of the pleasure we draw from sinful behaviors that same ability for us to enjoy that pleasure is all granted by God.
But then consider an eternal existence in a place in which God removes himself....all his divine attributes gone. No hope, no joy, no pleasure, no highs, no elation, no sunshine, not even the comfort of a breath of oxygen. When we deny God.....when we reject and hate God we have chosen to separate ourselves from him and he will honor that choice despite the fact it defies his will for our lives. Without the ability to choose from all possible options (good or evil) can we make a genuine choice to align ourselves with or reject God completely. God's wrath will be fully realized when many step before him for judgement, are deemed vile in his eyes due to their rejection of Christ and are eternally separated from him in a hell I can barely comprehend or describe adequately.
God is loving, just, gracious, faithful and even jealous; yet, he is to be absolutely respected and feared because of his power to destroy both our bodies and souls and cast us into an eternal hell of our choosing which we deserve if we reject Jesus Christ.
-
How bout you set us straight rather than just hit and run like a trolling coward.
Clearly you have insights and information that we do not. Do tell...I dare ya.
You are a religious bigot. End/thread.
-
How bout you set us straight rather than just hit and run like a trolling coward.
Clearly you have insights and information that we do not. Do tell...I dare ya.
Good luck with that. lol
-
You are a religious bigot. End/thread.
LOL you're a coward
-
LOL you're a coward
this.
also: see attached
(i found the images randomly but i looked up the greek numbers AND IT IS LEGIT)
-
this.
also: see attached
(i found the images randomly but i looked up the greek numbers AND IT IS LEGIT)
I will absolutely agree that the "the most high" Allah, the "noble" Quran and the "prophet" Muhammad (pb&j) are tools inspired by Satan.
-
Top Poodle: What do you mean, or how do you come about saying, "Illuminati worship Lucifer"?
-
Top Poodle: What do you mean, or how do you come about saying, "Illuminati worship Lucifer"?
Check out the first few pages of "Pawns in the Game"
-
Check out the first few pages of "Pawns in the Game"
Yes, I see.
Any idea of info regarding his death? (Carr's) I haven't looked super hard, other than to know it isn't too well-published.
-
Yes, I see.
Any idea of info regarding his death? (Carr's) I haven't looked super hard, other than to know it isn't too well-published.
No idea man, I don't even know where or how I found the book.
Tbh i haven't read past the first few pages yet so I don't know anything lol
-
No idea man, I don't even know where or how I found the book.
Tbh i haven't read past the first few pages yet so I don't know anything lol
Yeah, well it's a real interesting line of thought. Thanks for pointing me to it.
-
Yes it really is interesting. Can't believe I haven't quite seen this idea before, or at least in this way.
-
No idea man, I don't even know where or how I found the book.
Tbh i haven't read past the first few pages yet so I don't know anything lol
You know poodle, the more I think about it the more I can see your point that Allah could absolutely be Satan.
-
haha thanks guys, i just came up with it myself + mom ;D
-
man of steel tell us how you're coming around to maybe agreeing on my viewpoint
-
man of steel tell us how you're coming around to maybe agreeing on my viewpoint
Well, as I've studied Islam in the past I always approached it with the understanding that it was demonically inspired....which it is. Since there is only one God I never even considered that Satan may have pretended to be Allah, but I can see that now. I always assumed Mohammad's receipt of the Quran was a delusion in his mind, but I'm inclined to believe that Satan himself disguised himself as the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) and communicated the Quran to Mohammad.
The Sumerian tablet theory is interesting as well.
-
It's interesting to realize that we're bound by these two forces, economy and electronic technology, and how they have morphed into the same thing in our culture and increasingly so in other cultures.
What sort of jumps out, to me, is that this "thing" simply cannot yield to anything but worldwide rule by a single entity.
-
It's interesting to realize that we're bound by these two forces, economy and electronic technology, and how they have morphed into the same thing in our culture and increasingly so in other cultures.
What sort of jumps out, to me, is that this "thing" simply cannot yield to anything but worldwide rule by a single entity.
explain what you mean by the bold
-
explain what you mean by the bold
Meaning these two things have mixed so far, and so reactively, as to have become a single super-force we've never seen and cannot hope, as a whole, to catch.
To say that the more thoroughly controlled the one, by any entity, the greater the gain taken from the other, by the same entity -- which increases control over the first, and on and on toward whatever will be its end.
It's the ultimate power vacuum, imo.
-
lol, allah is a poodle.
religion is opium for the weak minded cut that shit already.
I can believe in the magnificent spaghetti monster with the same effectiveness.
-
lol, allah is a poodle.
religion is opium for the weak minded cut that shit already.
I can believe in the magnificent spaghetti monster with the same effectiveness.
Deleted your other post. On this board I am the spaghetti monster.....and I'm very effective.
-
haha thanks guys, i just came up with it myself while mom was getting fucked by two black guys.
Huh?
-
Deleted your other post. On this board I am the spaghetti monster.....and I'm very effective.
I love knitting, combing my dolls' hair, daisy picking, frolicking in grassy meadows and feeling pretty!
-
Well, as I've studied Islam in the past I always approached it with the understanding that it was demonically inspired....which it is. Since there is only one God I never even considered that Satan may have pretended to be Allah, but I can see that now. I always assumed Mohammad's receipt of the Quran was a delusion in his mind, but I'm inclined to believe that Satan himself disguised himself as the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) and communicated the Quran to Mohammad.
The Sumerian tablet theory is interesting as well.
You must admit your default position is based on your personal belief, not fact. Anything that doesn't agree with your personal religious book you automatically deem from satan so...
-
You must admit your default position is based on your personal belief, not fact. Anything that doesn't agree with your personal religious book you automatically deem from satan so...
My position is based on experience, divine revelation, history, archeology, science, theology and logic primarily.
Anything that stands opposed to Christ or is anti-Christian absolutely is demonically sourced. Not all secular materials stand against God though.
-
Why you editting my shit spaghetti dick?
removing your filth
-
lol spaghetti dick... you are taking this religion shit way too serial mate....
You live in a lie. ;)
-
My position is based on experience, divine revelation, history, archeology, science, theology and logic primarily.
Anything that stands opposed to Christ or is anti-Christian absolutely is demonically sourced. Not all secular materials stand against God though.
My point is, of course you're prone to agreeing Allah is satan, you're prone to believing Buddha is Satan. ANY religious teaching or god not the biblical god, is of Satan according to your religion so that was not much of a stretch
-
lol spaghetti dick... you are taking this religion shit way too serial mate....
You live in a lie. ;)
What lie is that? And of course you can defend your position, correct? What is the source of your assertion?
What keeps you from God? Bad church experience? Not raised in a Godly home? Lose loved ones to disease or tragedy? Horrific military experience where you witnessed the evil of people firsthand?
What knowledge and experience of God and scripture do you have? What materials have you studied? Have you humbly submitted to God as outlined in scripture and repented of your sin?
What is the source of your atheism? How do you know there is no God? Science? Greek philosophy? College courses?
Maybe influenced by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, Aron Ra, Dillahunty, Carrier, Krauss, Hawking, Ehrman, Rand, etc...?
Perhaps just the posting of of random youtube atheists? Coffee house conversations shape your position?
Hate being held accountable? Prefer pornography, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, partying, adultery, fornication, etc...?
Or are you just a hit and run artist?
-
What lie is that? And of course you can defend your position, correct? What is the source of your assertion?
What keeps you from God? Bad church experience? Not raised in a Godly home? Lose loved ones to disease or tragedy? Horrific military experience where you witnessed the evil of people firsthand?
What knowledge and experience of God and scripture do you have? What materials have you studied? Have you humbly submitted to God as outlined in scripture and repented of your sin?
What is the source of your atheism? How do you know there is no God? Science? Greek philosophy? College courses?
Maybe influenced by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, Aron Ra, Dillahunty, Carrier, Krauss, Hawking, Ehrman, Rand, etc...?
Perhaps just the posting of of random youtube atheists? Coffee house conversations shape your position?
Hate being held accountable? Prefer pornography, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, partying, adultery, fornication, etc...?
Or are you just a hit and run artist?
What is your proof man? we are just talking monkeys on an organic space ship, travelling in the time/space continuum.
if there is god, he is a nasty motherfucka... not that humle and forgiving old man with beard.
-
What is your proof man? we are just talking monkeys on an organic space ship, travelling in the time/space continuum.
if there is god, he is a nasty motherfucka... not that humle and forgiving old man with beard.
You came to insult me and my faith which I'm not bothered by in the slightest. Done this for years.
Although, before I answer any of your questions you're going to have to answer mine.
-
You came to insult me and my faith which I'm not bothered by in the slightest. Done this for years.
Although, before I answer any of your questions you're going to have to answer mine.
I have just seen a lot of brutal stuff to believe that shit in the bible. following jc teachings it will only get you chances of getting fucked higher by life and church or whoever.
-
I have just seen a lot of brutal stuff to believe that shit in the bible. following jc teachings it will only get you chances of getting fucked higher by life and church or whoever.
Now this is interesting (and I mean that in a good way).
Sounds like you have seen a lot more of the evil of people than I have.
What have you witnessed that makes you feel that following JC will only lead to greater pain, suffering, etc...?
-
Now this is interesting (and I mean that in a good way).
Sounds like you have seen a lot more of the evil of people than I have.
What have you witnessed that makes you feel that following JC will only lead to greater pain, suffering, etc...?
yeah its like lord of the rings...the ring is the power. it eats your soul and makes everybody envy you...but man is god and god is man....
-
yeah its like lord of the rings...the ring is the power. it eats your soul and makes everybody envy you...but man is god and god is man....
So God is like the ring from LOTR because like the ring God gives you power and eats your soul and then everyone envies you because of God but man actually is God and God is actually man.
Just one follow up question.
Huh??
-
So God is like the ring from LOTR because like the ring God gives you power and eats your soul and then everyone envies you because of God but man actually is God and God is actually man.
Just one follow up question.
Huh??
mane, the catholic church was pretty much the first international corporation to be created. Money and power are their targets as is the case for 99% of people.
So, money power = ring from LOTR, Peeps want it => they envy you => they try to hurt you or to flatter you in one way or another (depending on their character).
GOD is the man who has managed to come on top. Not so difficult to comprehend. huh?
Better than the story of the hippy dude from the pseudo virgin mother who dies like a bitch to take our sins and is resurrected to brag about it?!!! oh, brother...
-
mane, the catholic church was pretty much the first international corporation to be created. Money and power are their targets as is the case for 99% of people.
So, money power = ring from LOTR, Peeps want it => they envy you => they try to hurt you or to flatter you in one way or another (depending on their character).
GOD is the man who has managed to come on top. Not so difficult to comprehend. huh?
Better than the story of the hippy dude from the pseudo virgin mother who dies like a bitch to take our sins and is resurrected to brag about it?!!! oh, brother...
Oh I see. Thing is I'm not a Catholic. I'm a Christian. Catholic church was perverted by money and power and governmental influence. Hence various believers in Christ protested against the Catholic church demanding reform.
The God of Catholicism has been replaced by papal authority (man makes himself a god), but fortunately that has nothing to do with what I preach.
I follow Christ.
-
Oh I see. Thing is I'm not a Catholic. I'm a Christian. Catholic church was perverted by money and power and governmental influence. Hence various believers in Christ protested against the Catholic church demanding reform.
The God of Catholicism has been replaced by papal authority (man makes himself a god), but fortunately that has nothing to do with what I preach.
I follow Christ.
like Christianity doesn't have corruption.......
-
Oh I see. Thing is I'm not a Catholic. I'm a Christian. Catholic church was perverted by money and power and governmental influence. Hence various believers in Christ protested against the Catholic church demanding reform.
The God of Catholicism has been replaced by papal authority (man makes himself a god), but fortunately that has nothing to do with what I preach.
I follow Christ.
Good for you man. Stay in Disneyland.
-
like Christianity doesn't have corruption.......
Sure, bad apples in every organization. Scripture warns about them. Although you seem to be drawing a parallel between the need for reformation of the Catholic church due to corruption and corruption in Christianity.
Tell me, what is that corruption you're referring to?
-
Good for you man. Stay in Disneyland.
Well clearly your objection is against Catholicism...at least that's what you presented.
Do you have anything beyond your objection of Catholicism or "hit and run" insults to offer?
-
Well clearly your objection is against Catholicism...at least that's what you presented.
Do you have anything beyond your objection of Catholicism or "hit and run" insults to offer?
nope, it is against religious weerdoes like you mane...muslim, catholic, buddist same shit different toilet.
-
nope, it is against religious weerdoes like you mane...muslim, catholic, buddist same shit different toilet.
I'll no longer be addressing any of your posts because you're just a mocker. No capacity for discussion.
-
I'll no longer be addressing any of your posts because you're just a mocker. No capacity for discussion.
not a bad decision
-
I'll no longer be addressing any of your posts because you're just a mocker. No capacity for discussion.
sorry, you are nice dude. peace.
-
sorry, you are nice dude. peace.
I appreciate you being cool. I won't ignore your posts. ;)
-
nope, it is against religious weerdoes like you mane...muslim, catholic, buddist same shit different toilet.
You are likely an atheist, which is fine. Studies on the demographics of atheism have concluded that self-identified atheists comprise anywhere from 2% to 13% of the world's population. Christianity is the largest faith with 2.2 billion adherents or 31.5 per cent of the world's population. There are about 1.6 billion Muslims around the world - or 23 per cent of the global population.
By comparison, Atheist and Agnostics together could be the third largest group. You are definitely not alone.
-
You are likely an atheist, which is fine. Studies on the demographics of atheism have concluded that self-identified atheists comprise anywhere from 2% to 13% of the world's population. Christianity is the largest faith with 2.2 billion adherents or 31.5 per cent of the world's population. There are about 1.6 billion Muslims around the world - or 23 per cent of the global population.
By comparison, Atheist and Agnostics together could be the third largest group. You are definitely not alone.
-
You are likely an atheist, which is fine. Studies on the demographics of atheism have concluded that self-identified atheists comprise anywhere from 2% to 13% of the world's population. Christianity is the largest faith with 2.2 billion adherents or 31.5 per cent of the world's population. There are about 1.6 billion Muslims around the world - or 23 per cent of the global population.
By comparison, Atheist and Agnostics together could be the third largest group. You are definitely not alone.
give it time.. as distance increases from the 1st century, more will come to realize the reality of religion and how it is based on superstition and old tales. Within 100 to 200 years I see Agnosticism or atheism becoming the dominant position. we've come so far with technology and science in the last 100 years, I can foresee even in our lifetime a trend to increase towards non religion
-
give it time.. as distance increases from the 1st century, more will come to realize the reality of religion and how it is based on superstition and old tales. Within 100 to 200 years I see Agnosticism or atheism becoming the dominant position. we've come so far with technology and science in the last 100 years, I can foresee even in our lifetime a trend to increase towards non religion
completely and totally agree with one exception in that I believe Christianity will become globally outlawed and all other non-Christians faiths/entities/opinions will unite into one cohesive "system of thought" that removes God altogether. atheists and agnostics have a lot to look forward to. a grand sense of "I told you so" to all Christians (and really the entire world). a unified, global purpose realized under the guidance and influence of science and reason shaped by atheists and reformed, former theists. all remaining, underground Christian adherents will likely be hunted, rounded up and jailed and/or killed. basically the world of anti-Christs will finally realize the dream of "no more God". it'll likely be a global party of sorts....a celebration of victory.....like the days of Noah.....the world shaped and lead by faithless men of reason and science.
-
completely and totally agree with one exception in that I believe Christianity will become globally outlawed and all other non-Christians faiths/entities/opinions will unite into one cohesive "system of thought" that removes God altogether. atheists and agnostics have a lot to look forward to. a grand sense of "I told you so" to all Christians (and really the entire world). a unified, global purpose realized under the guidance and influence of science and reason shaped by atheists and reformed, former theists. all remaining, underground Christian adherents will likely be hunted, rounded up and jailed and/or killed. basically the world of anti-Christs will finally realize the dream of "no more God". it'll likely be a global party of sorts....a celebration of victory.....like the days of Noah.....the world shaped and lead by faithless men of reason and science.
I don't agree with any of your vision, although I wouldn't approve of Christianity being outlawed, I would enjoy a day when some well meaning politicians stop trying to sneak their religious rules and beliefs into laws. Outlawing that, (Not many people are swayed apparently by the exclusionary clause, hence the law suits believers keep losing) it would be nice to get it in black and white once and for all. Leave your religion at home or the church, don't bring it into government work
-
I don't agree with any of your vision, although I wouldn't approve of Christianity being outlawed, I would enjoy a day when some well meaning politicians stop trying to sneak their religious rules and beliefs into laws. Outlawing that, (Not many people are swayed apparently by the exclusionary clause, hence the law suits believers keep losing) it would be nice to get it in black and white once and for all. Leave your religion at home or the church, don't bring it into government work
You'll eventually get your wish whether or not you agree with me and I have no expectation nonbelievers will ever agree with me. If I were to enter a room with an atheist and turn on the light and say "the light is on" I have no doubt that atheist would disagree and say "no the light is off".
The church isn't a building. The church is a community of believers. Wherever that body of believers happens to be so is the church. When nonbelievers tell believers to "keep God at the church" they do so in ignorance. Wherever believers are so is God and the church.....day or night, 24/7, rain or shine. Believers bring the church to nonbelievers because nonbelievers don't go to the church.
-
You'll eventually get your wish whether or not you agree with me and I have no expectation nonbelievers will ever agree with me. If I were to enter a room with an atheist and turn on the light and say "the light is on" I have no doubt that atheist would disagree and say "no the light is off".
The church isn't a building. The church is a community of believers. Wherever that body of believers happens to be so is the church. When nonbelievers tell believers to "keep God at the church" they do so in ignorance. Wherever believers are so is God and the church.....day or night, 24/7, rain or shine. Believers bring the church to nonbelievers because nonbelievers don't go to the church.
Then you don't understand atheists. If there is empirical or compelling evidence the light was on, they would agree with you
-
Then you don't understand atheists. If there is empirical or compelling evidence the light was on, they would agree with you
true. the reasonable, rational atheist would do that; unfortunately there really arent many (or any) of those in my experience LOL. atheists I regularly encounter disagree with theists on virtually anything merely on principle alone.
-
true. the reasonable, rational atheist would do that; unfortunately there really arent many (or any) of those in my experience LOL. atheists I regularly encounter disagree with theists on virtually anything merely on principle alone.
I think you misspelled evidence
-
I think you misspelled evidence
Well atheists only follow evidence if it first appears to agree with their presuppositions so when they disagree with theists all evidence has long been thrown out and generic principles (aka presuppositions) take precedence in all decision making and formation of opinions.
-
Well atheists only follow evidence if it first appears to agree with their presuppositions so when they disagree with theists all evidence has long been thrown out and generic principles (aka presuppositions) take precedence in all decision making and formation of opinions.
or science.. if it agrees with what the majority of scientist agree on based on the data
-
Well atheists only follow evidence if it first appears to agree with their presuppositions so when they disagree with theists all evidence has long been thrown out and generic principles (aka presuppositions) take precedence in all decision making and formation of opinions.
Other people believe faith alone trumps evidence.
-
or science.. if it agrees with what the majority of scientist agree on based on the data
Although science is more tangible than blind faith, it can be wrong. Perception is everything for many folks. Therefore, what one believes can be very powerful, and yet mistaken.
-
Although science is more tangible than blind faith, it can be wrong. Perception is everything for many folks. Therefore, what one believes can be very powerful, and yet mistaken.
The thing about science that is different than religion is that scientists typically will adjust or drop their position when new data proves it false. In fact, the processes itself involves disproving the hypothesis. And personally, if new data is developed that changes the current paradigm I will adjust with it. Not so with religion. They will fight to explain the most ridiculous claims as true when it's pointed out to be likely fictitious or a fable.
-
Other people believe faith alone trumps evidence.
True and other people discover absolute evidence via faith.
-
or science.. if it agrees with what the majority of scientist agree on based on the data
exactly my point....thank you for that. the scientific community repeatedly touts "the way science is done" to understand all things yet ignores those same principles of exploring evidence when it comes to evidence for God. as long as God is removed from the situation the circumstance is then deemed reasonable to explore, but otherwise when it disagrees with presuppositions it's automatically thrown out as useless, delusional or ignorant....tremendous irony in that conclusion but only believers will comprehend that. on the other hand, some in the scientific community demand God be defined, discovered and tested through scientific means alone. right then and there they've committed a category mistake/error as you can't decipher a supernatural God with natural methodology. all science means is knowledge and that knowledge is of the natural world. nothing wrong with science, but to know God you need more than science can provide and must be willing to abide by God's terms as put forth in scripture. suppress that truth and you'll remain in ignorance of all that God is.
-
Although science is more tangible than blind faith, it can be wrong. Perception is everything for many folks. Therefore, what one believes can be very powerful, and yet mistaken.
this is why I put my understanding and faith in the objective standards of God as opposed to the subjective standards of men. in objectivity you can be certain. in subjectivity you're never certain.
-
True and other people discover absolute evidence via faith.
I'm not saying these people don't, but how is this possible? Are you saying that if you believe in something strongly enough, it becomes an indisputable truth? If you would provide some examples of what you mean by absolute evidence discovered via faith, it might help me understand what you mean.
-
I'm not saying these people don't, but how is this possible? Are you saying that if you believe in something strongly enough, it becomes an indisputable truth? If you would provide some examples of what you mean by absolute evidence discovered via faith, it might help me understand what you mean.
loco does have a very good heart.
I sure hope that despite whatever obstacles are in your life that are preventing you from engaging faith in God that you will continue to think about it and meditate on it. Faith isn't an easy business initially and I speak from experience. It took me having one foot in the grave before I surrendered myself to the Lord's will for my life and I've never been the same.
For some faith begins with a leap and for others faith begins with an honest desire to truly find out if God is real. For the believer faith then transitions from a leap to full assurance in the heart when the new believer is then indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That moment of acceptance of Christ by faith is the turning point, the time in which the new believer has clarity, fresh eyes and begins to experience the very presence of the creator himself. It requires a genuine desire to know God and a humble heart that surrenders to God's will for their life. From my humble chair there is only upside to belief in Jesus Christ.
Today may not be your day for faith, but my prayer is that before your life comes to an end that your day for faith does arrive.
God bless!!
-
Thanks. This is your personnel evidence as to how and why you "found" faith in God. Clearly, your near death experience influenced this decision. Near death experiences are frequently the catalyst for finding faith. Once faced with death, it is only natural to become much more aware of one's mortality. This is why many people seek assurance that there is more to us than ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Who wants to believe when you die, that's it. You become nothing more than fertilizer for the future.
-
Thanks. This is your personnel evidence as to how and why you "found" faith in God. Clearly, your near death experience influenced this decision. Near death experiences are frequently the catalyst for finding faith. Once faced with death, it is only natural to become much more aware of one's mortality. This is why many people seek assurance that there is more to us than ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Who wants to believe when you die, that's it. You become nothing more than fertilizer for the future.
Some say the survival instinct is the biggest reason for religion. We instinctively grasp for life and what better way to avoid death than to believe after you die, life continues. Some say it is an ego thing. How can we, humans be the same as the cattle or the deer on the highway where it's all over once we die. We must have something on the other side.
-
Some say the survival instinct is the biggest reason for religion. We instinctively grasp for life and what better way to avoid death than to believe after you die, life continues. Some say it is an ego thing. How can we, humans be the same as the cattle or the deer on the highway where it's all over once we die. We must have something on the other side.
Whichever way death is described with immortality or not, what is good for one is good for all. If we have life after death than so does every other living thing.
-
Whichever way death is described with immortality or not, what is good for one is good for all. If we have life after death than so does every other living thing.
Seems more likely than just one particular species having it if it exists at all.
-
Thanks. This is your personnel evidence as to how and why you "found" faith in God. Clearly, your near death experience influenced this decision. Near death experiences are frequently the catalyst for finding faith. Once faced with death, it is only natural to become much more aware of one's mortality. This is why many people seek assurance that there is more to us than ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Who wants to believe when you die, that's it. You become nothing more than fertilizer for the future.
Yes, this is my personal evidence for God....my testimony.....my divine revelation of God.
I was near death for awhile actually. It was the instant I lifted my arms and fully surrendered my life to Christ in that hospital room and BOOM....instantly the room was filled with the overwhelming, undeniable, tangible presence of the Holy Spirit and my surgical wounds began to tingle like never before (and never have again) from top to bottom.
Next day my folks came to visit and my father walked in, took a look at me and had a strange expression on his face but he said nothing about it. It was a short time later that he told me that when he came in the room that I appeared to be enveloped in a sort of glow or hue. It was my aunt that later said, "boys that was the shekinah glory of God". I was changed in an instant in that room and never thought, desired or acted the same again. All glory to God!
-
Some say the survival instinct is the biggest reason for religion. We instinctively grasp for life and what better way to avoid death than to believe after you die, life continues. Some say it is an ego thing. How can we, humans be the same as the cattle or the deer on the highway where it's all over once we die. We must have something on the other side.
There's some definite truth in this, but it's unrelated to my testimony. I didn't go to God because of a fear of death....I was prepared to die.....I actually wanted to die at one point (it was a ridiculous state of mind). Yet, in that moment I knew inside myself that I wanted change and to finally serve and submit to God. I could literally feel his drawing within me. In that moment if God wanted to grant me additional life that would be guided by his will alone, but I knew I was ready to come to him in humble, faithful surrender.
Best I can explain it briefly.
-
There's some definite truth in this, but it's unrelated to my testimony. I didn't go to God because of a fear of death....I was prepared to die.....I actually wanted to die at one point (it was a ridiculous state of mind). Yet, in that moment I knew inside myself that I wanted change and to finally serve and submit to God. I could literally feel his drawing within me. In that moment if God wanted to grant me additional life that would be guided by his will alone, but I knew I was ready to come to him in humble, faithful surrender.
Best I can explain it briefly.
Hey, in all seriousness, if you had some personal revelation of a god, then of course you should believe unless you were on medication that might cause it. My brother, a very intelligent, respected person believes in god and teaches at church. He believes he had a personal experience. His problem is he thinks his personal experience should be enough to convince me. As you probably know, hearing what other people saw or experienced when it comes to making a decision on something like believing in the supernatural just doesn't work as well.
-
Hey, in all seriousness, if you had some personal revelation of a god, then of course you should believe unless you were on medication that might cause it. My brother, a very intelligent, respected person believes in god and teaches at church. He believes he had a personal experience. His problem is he thinks his personal experience should be enough to convince me. As you probably know, hearing what other people saw or experienced when it comes to making a decision on something like believing in the supernatural just doesn't work as well.
No mind altering medication involved. I've addressed this specific issue many times in the past. The change I experienced came from an outside stimulus that is not of man and changed me from the inside out. Nothing was injected or consumed. No issue of mental illness has even been part of my past. No bizarre afflictions, addictions, illnesses, etc....are part of my past.
Question for you: If the testimony of your brother isn't trustworthy enough for you to pursue God then what would it take?
-
No mind altering medication involved. �I've addressed this specific issue many times in the past. �The ge I experienced came from an outside stimulus that is not of man and changed me from the inside out. Nothing was injected or consumed. No issue of mental illness has even been part of my past. No bizarre afflictions, addictions, illnesses, etc....are part of my past.
Question for you: If the testimony of your brother isn't trustworthy enough for you to pursue God then what would it take?
MoS, I do enjoy your posts. You are a cool cat and a real delight to read.
Let me ask you something. How do you see availability of conscience and logic, presumably existing somewhere in each of us (no matter how far buried in an individual), as a means in potentially seeking God? In which ways could you see that (those) as a help or a hindrance in that pursuit?
-
True and other people discover absolute evidence via faith.
To put it mildly, No they most certainly do not. It's this type of shit that makes it impossible to take you and side
seriously.
-
To put it mildly, No they most certainly do not. It's this type of shit that makes it impossible to take you and side
seriously.
Somehow I'll have to find a way to carry on despite your opinion of me.
....
......
......
well I'm over it. :)
-
Somehow I'll have to find a way to carry on despite your opinion of me.
....
......
......
well I'm over it. :)
I actually think you are probably a pretty nice guy.
-
No mind altering medication involved. I've addressed this specific issue many times in the past. The change I experienced came from an outside stimulus that is not of man and changed me from the inside out. Nothing was injected or consumed. No issue of mental illness has even been part of my past. No bizarre afflictions, addictions, illnesses, etc....are part of my past.
Question for you: If the testimony of your brother isn't trustworthy enough for you to pursue God then what would it take?
seeing whatever he saw that convinced him to forgo logical thinking and believe the bible is true
-
Yes, this is my personal evidence for God....my testimony.....my divine revelation of God.
I was near death for awhile actually. It was the instant I lifted my arms and fully surrendered my life to Christ in that hospital room and BOOM....instantly the room was filled with the overwhelming, undeniable, tangible presence of the Holy Spirit and my surgical wounds began to tingle like never before (and never have again) from top to bottom.
Next day my folks came to visit and my father walked in, took a look at me and had a strange expression on his face but he said nothing about it. It was a short time later that he told me that when he came in the room that I appeared to be enveloped in a sort of glow or hue. It was my aunt that later said, "boys that was the shekinah glory of God". I was changed in an instant in that room and never thought, desired or acted the same again. All glory to God!
What an amazing experience you had. I understand how something like this might alter your thinking. Surely, you had what you believe is a revelation. Your father confirmed it when he told you about his reaction to seeing you. Your aunt did too when she explained that it was the Shekinah Glory of God. Is your family fairly religious?
I had what seemed like a revelation one time when I was still in my teens. I woke up during the night (or thought I did) with the intense feeling that I was dying, although I wasn't sick, . There was an audible part to this event. Accompanying the feeling was a noise, rather like a hum, that got louder and louder. I had a sense that there was also a presence, only it wasn't something or someone mythical, it was my father who I not had contact with for over 10 years. Subconsciously, I believed that if I didn't fight my feelings I would indeed die, so I fought to end the sound and the feelings and they went eventually away. I was awake for the rest of the night, probably in fear of nodding off should the experience return.
The only other time I was near death, I was an impossibly premature infant and the doctors told my mother I would not survive. My mom insisted she only carried me six months. I remained in the hospital for several months before I could go home.
-
I actually think you are probably a pretty nice guy.
I like to think that I am....I always aim to be to everyone. I have missteps sometimes.
I don't think atheists/agnostics are bad people either. Or people of other faiths.
I genuinely care about folks and want to see them enter into relationship with God.
I don't want people ending up in hell separated from God and having to deal with that reality for an eternity.
I realize at times that I'm perceived as arrogant, but I'm really not. Unfortunately when a person puts forth answers to objections and does so with confidence it often gets interpreted as arrogance. Not my intention.
I'm no scholar. I'm really just a lifelong student consistently in search of answers to questions.
I learn from more mature believers. I learn from sermons. I learn from experience. I learn from books. I learn online. I learn via conversation. I learn from independent bible study.
And at times I'm nothing more than a glorified parrot reciting answers I've learned/read from someone else along the way.
-
seeing whatever he saw that convinced him to forgo logical thinking and believe the bible is true
For my own clarification, do you mean you require going back in time to witness the exact event your brother experienced? Or do you mean you'd need to have the same (or similarly impactful) experience today your brother once had?
Does that make sense?
-
MoS, I do enjoy your posts. You are a cool cat and a real delight to read.
Let me ask you something. How do you see availability of conscience and logic, presumably existing somewhere in each of us (no matter how far buried in an individual), as a means in potentially seeking God? In which ways could you see that (those) as a help or a hindrance in that pursuit?
I appreciate that and I'm grateful for your contributions on these boards as well.
I believe that conscience represents the law of God written upon each of our hearts. Often times we instinctively recognize something as right or wrong with no prior experience to guide that opinion. It's been impressed upon us by God....coded into us if you will. I believe it's as simple as instinctively recognizing that stealing is wrong....even small children inherently grasp this. Why is stealing wrong? Because God is not a thief.
I believe that the laws of logic are established by the very nature of God. He is the source of logic. The objective standard by which all things are measured. There exists such a schism between groups as they interpret what is logical and what is illogical or what is truth and what is a fallacious claim or argument. The subjectivity of men lends itself to every wind of doctrine tossing us to and fro as scripture states. It's only when grounded in the objectivity of God does logic have a genuine foundation.
I believe that when people make a conscious decision to suppress God that they progressively harden their hearts and therefore there's no drawing of God in their lives. Through his foreknowledge of their deeds he knows their hearts are shut to him and therefore coming to him in repentance will not happen so they never experience his divine drawing to salvation. At least in agnosticism there's more hope that hearts aren't fully shut, but with the majority of atheists it's typically a done deal and their eternity sealed.
-
For my own clarification, do you mean you require going back in time to witness the exact event your brother experienced? Or do you mean you'd need to have the same (or similarly impactful) experience today your brother once had?
Does that make sense?
B option.
-
B option.
Would you come to God in faithful repentance first?
-
Would you come to God in faithful repentance first?
wouldn't make sense. Cart before the horse
-
wouldn't make sense. Cart before the horse
In this instance we're referring to the Christian worldview which encompasses the supernatural realm of God.....not the scientific, natural worldview. Demanding one conform to the other is a category error so you have to remain bound to the tenets of the Christian worldview that you object to. That said, scripture is plain in that salvation comes via faith in the atoning works of Christ that were recorded long ago.
This salvific event ("the horse") occurred a long time ago and was documented and passed down through the centuries and millions have experienced firsthand the divine intervention of God in their lives via repentance and faithful acknowledgment of Christ's work on the cross ("the cart"). To fully understand the full impact of Christ's atoning work means you are bound by God's terms as outlined in scripture....his will for you. Saying it doesn't make sense putting the cart before the horse just doesn't hold water. For most it's an excuse to avoid accountability and judgment and to further suppress the reality of God they inherently know is true. Either a person is willing to submit or they aren't, but don't blame God or the bible or Christians for not providing the definite means to know God that millions of others know worldwide.
-
In this instance we're referring to the Christian worldview which encompasses the supernatural realm of God.....not the scientific, natural worldview. Demanding one conform to the other is a category error so you have to remain bound to the tenets of the Christian worldview that you object to. That said, scripture is plain in that salvation comes via faith in the atoning works of Christ that were recorded long ago.
This salvific event ("the horse") occurred a long time ago and was documented and passed down through the centuries and millions have experienced firsthand the divine intervention of God in their lives via repentance and faithful acknowledgment of Christ's work on the cross ("the cart"). To fully understand the full impact of Christ's atoning work means you are bound by God's terms as outlined in scripture....his will for you. Saying it doesn't make sense putting the cart before the horse just doesn't hold water. For most it's an excuse to avoid accountability and judgment and to further suppress the reality of God they inherently know is true. Either a person is willing to submit or they aren't, but don't blame God or the bible or Christians for not providing the definite means to know God that millions of others know worldwide.
For most it's a signal that they have moved beyond the fairytales and Santa Clause stories of youth and require compelling imperical evidence before they suspend all logic and believe a supernatural being that could cure cancer and doesn't exists and created man from dust and flooded the earth and killed everyone but 8 people and 2 or 7 (depends on the chapter ) of every animal on earth that was stored upon a ship roughly the size of a football field. Christians say it's because of some silly reason like you mentioned in order to justify why they (Christians) believe something so far fetched, that others don't
-
I appreciate that and I'm grateful for your contributions on these boards as well.
I believe that conscience represents the law of God written upon each of our hearts. Often times we instinctively recognize something as right or wrong with no prior experience to guide that opinion. It's been impressed upon us by God....coded into us if you will. I believe it's as simple as instinctively recognizing that stealing is wrong....even small children inherently grasp this. Why is stealing wrong? Because God is not a thief.
I believe that the laws of logic are established by the very nature of God. He is the source of logic. The objective standard by which all things are measured. There exists such a schism between groups as they interpret what is logical and what is illogical or what is truth and what is a fallacious claim or argument. The subjectivity of men lends itself to every wind of doctrine tossing us to and fro as scripture states. It's only when grounded in the objectivity of God does logic have a genuine foundation.
I believe that when people make a conscious decision to suppress God that they progressively harden their hearts and therefore there's no drawing of God in their lives. Through his foreknowledge of their deeds he knows their hearts are shut to him and therefore coming to him in repentance will not happen so they never experience his divine drawing to salvation. At least in agnosticism there's more hope that hearts aren't fully shut, but with the majority of atheists it's typically a done deal and their eternity sealed.
Something about your post made me stop and think for a while, MoS. One of those which require careful consideration. I really appreciate that. You got me thinking how conscience must be our most important day-to-day thought process, since it's the only one greater (and last thing standing) after logic. Our logic couldn't exist without it, and yet the reverse isn't necessarily true.
Meaning that, contrary to popular opinion, logic must answer to conscience and not the other way around. Of all things, logic itself shows that's true.
I then have to say, as you've already led to, that conscience appears to be an independent force, from outside ourselves. We know it exists in the most unlikely situations, as you point out, often regardless of the harshest circumstances in which it must defy. We know, too, clearly and by definition, it has a most peculiar ability to serve as a guide, so perfectly unwavering in its message -- supporting the idea that it is an external print upon us. Furthermore, and most importantly: it holds unique command over feelings of satisfaction, contentment, fulfillment, even relief, that are drawn completely from outside of the self.
It shows, imo, that your post is sound reasoning.