Author Topic: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran  (Read 4944 times)

bmacsys

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6074
  • Getbig!
Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« on: December 17, 2006, 10:05:02 AM »
 Ahmadinejad's allies struggle in Iran elections

By Edmund Blair1 hour, 56 minutes ago

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's allies failed to dominate elections for a powerful Iranian clerical body and local councils, early results showed on Sunday, in what analysts said was a setback to the president's standing.

Friday's twin elections for the clerical Assembly of Experts and local councils, the first nationwide vote since Ahmadinejad took office in 2005, will not directly impact policy.

But turnout of around 60 percent and Ahmadinejad's close identification with some candidates, particularly in Tehran, suggested a shift toward more moderate policies and away from the president's ultra-conservative line.

Although not Iran's most powerful figure, Ahmadinejad's anti-Israel and anti-Western statements alarm the West, which fears Iran is seeking an atomic bomb despite Tehran's denials.

"The results show that voters have learned from the past and concluded that we need to support ... moderate figures," the daily Kargozaran said in an editorial.

Kargozaran is close to former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, a moderate cleric who state media said led the count in Tehran for the Assembly of Experts. Rafsanjani lost to Ahmadinejad in the 2005 presidential race.

Lower down the list but still with enough votes to retain a seat, was Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi, a firebrand cleric who advocates cultural isolation from the West and is widely seen as the spiritual mentor of Ahmadinejad.

Two candidates, identified by clerics as Mesbah-Yazdi allies, were out of the running in Tehran, the official IRNA news agency said. Three Mesbah-Yazdi supporters lost in other regions though at least one was known to have secured a seat.

"This is a blow for Ahmadinejad and Mesbah-Yazdi's list," said one political analyst, who declined to be quoted by name.

"NO TO RADICALS"

The Assembly of Experts has more power than the president or parliament because it supervises the supreme leader. But conservative clerics have tended to keep it out of everyday politics and analysts say this is likely to remain the case.

Friday's main battleground was Tehran City Council, where Ahmadinejad supporters competed against backers of a more moderate conservative, Tehran mayor Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf.

Final results for Tehran are not expected until Tuesday but partial tallies reported by Iranian news agencies showed Qalibaf's group dominating with about nine of the 15 seats.

The rest were split between Ahmadinejad backers and the pro-reform camp, seeking a comeback after being routed in a series of polls.

Reformists said they had won at least six Tehran seats, and demanded election officials announce the results. They said the delay raised questions about the counting process.

"We have serious doubts about whether these problems are due to a lack of organization at the Interior Ministry or whether there are some efforts to tamper with votes," Mohammad Ali Najafi, a reformist candidate in Tehran, told Reuters.

Analysts said the outcome could boost moderate conservatives who say Ahmadinejad is trying to monopolize power around his close allies and ignoring the rest of the conservative camp.

"It is a signal for Ahmadinejad," said conservative commentator Amir Mohebian, who added that the president was still popular in the provinces.

The House that Ruth built

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 10:42:15 AM »
A change in direction in Iran politics based on a pro-western, moderate younger class has been discussed for years. No indication when or if it'll happen in time to make any difference.

bmacsys

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6074
  • Getbig!
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006, 11:22:18 AM »
I think the next US president could do a lot by saying to Iran: we want to talk to you. Work on normalizing relations. That would do us a lot of good around the world.
The House that Ruth built

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63750
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2006, 11:41:07 AM »
I think the next US president could do a lot by saying to Iran: we want to talk to you. Work on normalizing relations. That would do us a lot of good around the world.

Maybe.  It's difficult to sit at the table with someone who hates you and wants you destroyed.  I remember clips of Iranian children from many years ago chanting "death to America" and burning American flags.  I'm not sure we can normalize relations with that country. 

Delusional Liberal

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 659
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2006, 12:33:09 PM »
I think the next US president could do a lot by saying to Iran: we want to talk to you. Work on normalizing relations. That would do us a lot of good around the world.
no. 
Just smile at Iran and wait, don't talk

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2006, 01:49:54 PM »
Maybe.  It's difficult to sit at the table with someone who hates you and wants you destroyed.  I remember clips of Iranian children from many years ago chanting "death to America" and burning American flags.  I'm not sure we can normalize relations with that country. 

They've made various efforts to talk dude. It's Bush that doesn't want any sort of diplomacy with that country.

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2006, 02:01:05 PM »
Same with north Korea.  They have requested direct one-on-one talks with the United States. 

We have declined. 

They say they're starving thanks to our sanctions.  Monster diplomacy to starve the populace to get them to try to overthrow a dictator.  hungry people can't exactly storm castles.

I don't know what harm would come from talks with Iran and North Korea. I guess personal ideals and ego are more important than world stability. Sanctions work up to a certain point, but it hurts the poor people of those respective countries and gives them more incentive to hate and be angry.

The Squadfather

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 25840
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006, 02:03:02 PM »
I think the next US president could do a lot by saying to Iran: we want to talk to you. Work on normalizing relations. That would do us a lot of good around the world.
the problem there is that you have two governing forces, Ahmadinajad who is backed by the Revolutionary Guard and the Ayotollah Khamani and the clerics, in the past the secular president wouldn't have had much power but with the backing of the Guard he does, so you have to get both sides to come to the table.

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2006, 03:58:31 PM »
its the same way with them as it is with us and Bush. i have a feeling this guy is getting seen more and more in his country like how bush is in ours, ie not all that popular or representative of most people's opinions and ideals.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63750
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2006, 05:04:06 PM »
They've made various efforts to talk dude. It's Bush that doesn't want any sort of diplomacy with that country.

Wasn't there a story recently about how Iran is supplying the insurgents in Iraq?  Our government probably considers Iran a borderline terrorist nation, and for good reason.  You have the leader of their country spouting that death to the Jews nonsense just the other day. 

The Squadfather

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 25840
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 05:17:09 PM »
Wasn't there a story recently about how Iran is supplying the insurgents in Iraq?  Our government probably considers Iran a borderline terrorist nation, and for good reason.  You have the leader of their country spouting that death to the Jews nonsense just the other day. 
why is it nonsense? Jews kill Palestinian muslims everyday and they're the biggest nuclear power in the Middle east.

Hedgehog

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • It Rubs The Lotion On Its Skin.
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2006, 06:22:37 PM »
Wasn't there a story recently about how Iran is supplying the insurgents in Iraq?  Our government probably considers Iran a borderline terrorist nation, and for good reason.  You have the leader of their country spouting that death to the Jews nonsense just the other day. 

Iran is definitely not a close ally of the USA. Religion plays a huge part in everyday politics in Iran. Iran opposes USA on many topics, and the rhetorics against Israel is very harsh.

But that doesn't make Iran a terrorist nation.

Iran's leader, Ahmadinejad never asked for "death to Jews". He did talk about wiping out Israel at a local pep rally, something I think was unexcusable.

Still, from what I know, he hasn't asked for "death to Jews".

We could always argue that it's a matter of semantics?  But lets at least stick to what he actually said IMO.

Do I like Ahmadinejad? Of course not, he is a believer in Islamism, and I opposes all kinds of Islamism.

But I still believe it's important to not associate him with terrorists.

-Hedge
As empty as paradise

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63750
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2006, 08:44:32 PM »
why is it nonsense? Jews kill Palestinian muslims everyday and they're the biggest nuclear power in the Middle east.

It's nonsense, because the leader of country should not endorse genocide. 

Palestinians kills Jews too.  (I don't have a dog in the Israel v. Palestine race BTW.)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63750
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2006, 08:47:54 PM »
Iran is definitely not a close ally of the USA. Religion plays a huge part in everyday politics in Iran. Iran opposes USA on many topics, and the rhetorics against Israel is very harsh.

But that doesn't make Iran a terrorist nation.

Iran's leader, Ahmadinejad never asked for "death to Jews". He did talk about wiping out Israel at a local pep rally, something I think was unexcusable.

Still, from what I know, he hasn't asked for "death to Jews".

We could always argue that it's a matter of semantics?  But lets at least stick to what he actually said IMO.

Do I like Ahmadinejad? Of course not, he is a believer in Islamism, and I opposes all kinds of Islamism.

But I still believe it's important to not associate him with terrorists.

-Hedge

I do indeed think this is semantics.  Advocating wiping out an entire race is genocide.  You cannot sugarcoat what the guy said. 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63750
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2006, 09:30:30 PM »
I could give a shit if he endorses eating kittens or chewing with his mouth open.

Until he actually DOES SOMETHING, ya can't just remove him from power.

Also, who should get to choose who these major threats are.  The UN said Sadaam had no WMD.  But we bombed anyway.  And no WMD program was found. 

Plus, what if another country accused the US of being a threat?

The issue is whether we come to the table, not whether Iran's president is removed from power.   ::)

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2006, 10:32:31 PM »
i agree completely.  Just because you're the biggest kid on the block doesn't mean you have to beat up everyone.  When the bully starts helping people, the neighborhood gets a whole lot better.  Diplomacy is a great thing.

Doesn't hurt to try.  And honestly, there are a whole generation of American kids who - while not taught formally - have grown up hearing 'sand n***er' from their ignorant parents.  There are a whole generation of American kids who see everyone with a turban as a beard as a missile target.  This inborn hatred happens in every country, and the target is always the people of the nation your govt doesn't like.  How many kids of the 40s grew up hating 'japs and krauts' and never knew why?  Same with Russian kids, vietnamese kids, yada yada.  Fear and hatred are great psychological tools to train hatred and subsequent voting for military action 15 years later.

Sorry, didn't mean to get so deep.  Eat your cookie, Beach bum.



Yeah except these kids have watched...The Beruit bombing...numerous hijackings/The Embassy bombing/Kobar Towers/The USS Cole/WTC1/WTC2 etc etc etc..these peopl suck what part don't u get....they hate us.
L

Hedgehog

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • It Rubs The Lotion On Its Skin.
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2006, 11:36:54 PM »
I don't know what harm would come from talks with Iran and North Korea. I guess personal ideals and ego are more important than world stability. Sanctions work up to a certain point, but it hurts the poor people of those respective countries and gives them more incentive to hate and be angry.

It's strange.

They've only recently pulled the luxury items from North Korea, while the sanctions that hits the ordinary people has been in effect for years.

It seems backwards somehow. :-[

-Hedge
As empty as paradise

bmacsys

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6074
  • Getbig!
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2006, 06:18:39 AM »
no. 
Just smile at Iran and wait, don't talk

Delusional, I am a conservative by nature. The Iranians have no deep seated hatred of America. We can build on that. Bombing them or marginalizing them will just alienate them.
The House that Ruth built

bmacsys

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6074
  • Getbig!
Re: Here is a reason to be encouraged regarding Iran
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2006, 06:19:29 AM »
the problem there is that you have two governing forces, Ahmadinajad who is backed by the Revolutionary Guard and the Ayotollah Khamani and the clerics, in the past the secular president wouldn't have had much power but with the backing of the Guard he does, so you have to get both sides to come to the table.

Good point.
The House that Ruth built