Author Topic: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral  (Read 23587 times)

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Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« on: March 12, 2007, 08:01:11 PM »
Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
1 minute ago
 

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
Gen. Peter Pace is shown at the
Pentagon in Washington DC AP Photo


WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Monday he considers homosexuality to be immoral and the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Marine Gen. Peter Pace likened homosexuality to adultery, which he said was also immoral, the newspaper reported on its Web site.

"I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way," Pace told the newspaper in a wide-ranging interview.

Pace, a native of Brooklyn, N.Y., and a 1967 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, said he based his views on his upbringing.

He said he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay men and women are allowed in the military as long as they keep their sexual orientation private. The policy, signed into law by President Clinton in 1994, prohibits commanders from asking about a person's sexual orientation.

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Pace said.

The newspaper said Pace did not address concerns raised by a 2005 government audit that showed some 10,000 troops, including more than 50 specialists in Arabic, have been discharged because of the policy.

With Democrats in charge of Congress, Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., has introduced legislation to reverse the military's ban on openly serving homosexuals.
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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 08:05:56 PM »
Top general calls homosexuality 'immoral'

By Aamer Madhani

Tribune national correspondent
Published March 12, 2007, 8:46 PM CDT
 
Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" ban on gays serving in the military because homosexual acts "are immoral," akin to a member of the armed forces conducting an adulterous affair with the spouse of another service member.

Responding to a question about a Clinton-era policy that is coming under renewed scrutiny amid fears of future U.S. troop shortages, Pace said the Pentagon should not "condone" immoral behavior by allowing gay soldiers to serve openly. He said his views were based on his personal "upbringing," in which he was taught that certain types of conduct are immoral.

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts...," Pace said in a wide-ranging discussion with Tribune editors and reporters in Chicago. "I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is okay to be immoral in any way."

Pace said the military should not tolerate homosexual acts the way it does not tolerate military members who commit adultery with another service member's spouse, noting that that behavior is punished. The "don't ask, don't tell" policy caused an uproar in the military when signed into law by President Clinton. At the time, supporters of the policy inside and outside the military argued that it was essential for the cohesion of combat units, not a question of morality.

Under the policy, gays and lesbians may serve only if they keep their sexual orientation private and do not engage in homosexual acts. Their commanders may not ask about their orientation.

Charles Moskos, a military sociologist at Northwestern University who was instrumental in helping the Pentagon craft the "don't ask, don't tell" law, said it is unusual for a top commander to use morality as a justification for the policy. But he said he has repeatedly heard enlisted members use that reasoning when opposing gays in the military.

"With the enlisted, it's a question of cohesion, but morality is something they always bring up," said Moskos, who declined to comment specifically on Pace's remarks.

Addressing other military topics, Pace said that House Democrats' proposal to wind down the war could hamper President Bush's planned troop "surge" in Iraq by creating gaps in troop levels.

Turning to Afghanistan, Pace said that Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf's policy of courting tribal leaders on the border with Afghanistan has not prevented cross-border incursions by Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives. Instead, he said, there has been an increase in attacks.

"It is proper for us to point out to President Musharraf that people are continuing to come across the border," Pace said.

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which gay-rights advocates and other critics condemn as discriminatory, has come into question once again as the Bush administration, the Pentagon and Congress grapple with a military that commanders say has been stretched too far by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A 2005 government audit showed that some 10,000 troops have been discharged because of the policy. Among those discharged were more than 322 linguists, including 54 Arabic specialists, according to the Government Accountability Office report. The U.S. military, like the nation's foreign service and intelligence community, faces shortages of foreign-language specialists.

"The real question is: what is moral about discharging qualified linguists during a time of war simply for being gay or lesbian?" said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group. "Our military needs the best qualified men and women who are willing to serve in the military, protect our freedoms and preserve our American values of equality."

About 23 percent of troops know for sure that someone in their unit is gay or lesbian, according to a Zogby International poll of troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan that was published in December. About 55 percent of troops who know a gay peer said the presence of gays or lesbians in their unit was well known by others.

Last month, Rep. Martin Meehan (D-Mass.) revived the debate in Congress by introducing legislation to reverse the military's ban on openly serving homosexuals. Meehan's proposal has 106 sponsors, including six Republicans. Meehan and gay rights organizations have expressed hope that the policy can be reversed now that Democrats control the House and Senate.

The issue is also starting to percolate in the 2008 presidential campaign. Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), a longtime foe of the policy her husband signed into law, has stated that it should repealed. Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), says a repeal would be ill-advised.

Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili, a former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, who once supported "don't ask, don't tell," recently reversed his position and wrote in a newspaper column that it was time to allow gays to serve. Shalikashvili cited projected shortages in the military for his change of heart on the issue.

Moskos, the military sociologist, said that perhaps it is a good time to revisit the issue because the current generation of military recruits has a more liberal view on gays than previous generations and the older command officers.
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drkaje

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 08:14:26 PM »
On one hand, he's entitled to have an opinion. It just sucks that he's the military's spokesperson on the matter. In the same vein, everyone knows the policy. Why do people feel they should join to challenge the policy? why join an organization that says "we don't want gays and if you are gay don't tell us" and then make a big deal about it? Sometimes I feel gays live for drama.

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 08:21:06 PM »
2 or 3 more generations and there will be people in positions like that who are more progressive and intelligent regarding matters like that.

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 08:26:04 PM »
On one hand, he's entitled to have an opinion. It just sucks that he's the military's spokesperson on the matter. In the same vein, everyone knows the policy. Why do people feel they should join to challenge the policy? why join an organization that says "we don't want gays and if you are gay don't tell us" and then make a big deal about it? Sometimes I feel gays live for drama.

Probably for the same reason people of color fought to go to both University and Medical school,
...and then to practice medicine. I doubt they were simply looking for drama.  ::)
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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 08:31:32 PM »
Sometimes I feel gays live for drama.


Are the MD guidos gay??   :o :o
Ron: "I am lazy."

kh300

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 08:50:29 PM »
2 or 3 more generations and there will be people in positions like that who are more progressive and intelligent regarding matters like that.

ya, maybee they'll be smart enough to ship them to their own private island where they can spread aids, and watch designer guys all day..

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 09:00:40 PM »
kh300,

If your back was against the wall, and you were about to die, unless you got assistance,
who would you rather have watching your back in a firefight?

A gay Arnold Schwarzenegger / Rambo type, ...or a straight PeeWee Herman?

For that matter, if an AlQ communiqué was intercepted that stated an imminent surprise attack was about to take place on your bunker within 24hrs, who would you rather have translating it, ...a gay person fluent in Arabic who could read it and understand it in realtime, or a straight person like me who doesn't speak a lick of Arabic, and would probably need a month just to translate the first sentence?  ::)

It's policies like these that are going to keep holding your military back.
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OzmO

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 09:07:27 PM »
ya, maybee they'll be smart enough to ship them to their own private island where they can spread aids, and watch designer guys all day..

That will never happen but what will happen is America's acceptance of something that's been around since the dawn of man will grow and grow until it's fully integrated into society and completely accepted.

but don't get discouraged KH.

I know how you feel. 

I felt the same way when i was 23 years old and and a gay person hit on me.  I wanted to belt him, in fact if he hadn't worked for  me i would have.  But the guy was making too many sales in our company!  I felt the disgust, the fear, the anger.

But i found almost 20 years later they are just people who are trying to live a life and the aggressive gays are no different than a over bearing ass hole at a bar trying to hit on a woman.   The only difference men can hit back  lol.   you might find this too as time passes by.

What's interesting to me:  Being gay isn't even breaking the 10 commandments.  And far more people do that more often then there are gay people in the world.  But boy don't we have some self righteous sinners blasting them huh?

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 09:22:05 PM »

But i found almost 20 years later they are just people who are trying to live a life and the aggressive gays are no different than a over bearing ass hole at a bar trying to hit on a woman.   The only difference men can hit back  lol.   you might find this too as time passes by.

What's interesting to me:  Being gay isn't even breaking the 10 commandments.  And far more people do that more often then there are gay people in the world.  But boy don't we have some self righteous sinners blasting them huh?

Personally, I have found overbearing assholes trying to hit on women are WORSE. Gays are usually mindful that not everyone shares their orientation, but there are some guys who just simply refuse to accept no for an answer, ...or worse, ...when they hear NO, they get violent and abusive.

Say NO to a gay person, ...and they accept it as no and walk away.

When a woman says NO to an overbearing dick, ...they get violent and or abusive.

Why do men behave like such foolish assholes sometimes? ???
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kh300

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 09:24:12 PM »
call me ignorant if you want but it sickens me. i grew up in manhattan so a gay person is nothing new to me. weather or not you choose to be gay -i dont know and i dont care. but 95% of gays choose a lifestyle that is far beyond what should be excepted.
during my years with the pd almost every domestic disturbance call was between a homosexual couple. and you dont even want to know about some of the calls we'd get to gay bars.. men do not belong with men -it doesnt work. how many homos do you know that have had a long and healthy relationship?

this is why its immoral, men physically and psychologically were not intended to fuck each other, or make an attempt to have a relationship. two men were not intended to raise a child. you need a mother and a father.

the spread of aids, drag queens, filthy gay bars -not a healthy lifestyle.
guess im not as 'hip' as you cool guys   :-[

kh300

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 09:25:13 PM »


Why do men behave like such foolish assholes sometimes? ???

men are assholes because woman are crazy,, woman are crazy because men are assholes

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 09:29:00 PM »
men are assholes because woman are crazy,, woman are crazy because men are assholes

Maybe if there were more gay & lesbian relationships, we could skip much of the insanity altogether?  ;)
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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2007, 09:31:42 PM »

during my years with the pd almost every domestic disturbance call was between a homosexual couple. and you dont even want to know about some of the calls we'd get to gay bars.. men do not belong with men -it doesnt work.

Maybe the problem as you outline it, isn't with gays, ...but rather with men PERIOD!?  ;)

Quote
how many homos do you know that have had a long and healthy relationship?

Ziegfried & Roy
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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2007, 09:35:34 PM »
call me ignorant if you want but it sickens me. i grew up in manhattan so a gay person is nothing new to me. weather or not you choose to be gay -i dont know and i dont care. but 95% of gays choose a lifestyle that is far beyond what should be excepted.
during my years with the pd almost every domestic disturbance call was between a homosexual couple. and you dont even want to know about some of the calls we'd get to gay bars.. men do not belong with men -it doesnt work. how many homos do you know that have had a long and healthy relationship?

this is why its immoral, men physically and psychologically were not intended to fuck each other, or make an attempt to have a relationship. two men were not intended to raise a child. you need a mother and a father.

the spread of aids, drag queens, filthy gay bars -not a healthy lifestyle.
guess im not as 'hip' as you cool guys   :-[

i hear  ya,  i grew up with a old gay couple a few doors down from my house.  They had been together almost 50 years until one died about 10 years ago.

those things you talked about with gays whne you were a  police officer, i never experienced.  In fact i experienced the opposite except the rampant promiscuity.  then again you were in NYC,  i was in n. cali in the suburbs.

Although i don;t agree at all with your take in it,  i can see why you might have the views you do.

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2007, 09:58:24 PM »
Probably for the same reason people of color fought to go to both University and Medical school,
...and then to practice medicine. I doubt they were simply looking for drama.  ::)

I know you're Canadian but... gays aren't seperate race. Who knows what people are looking for? An education and the state redefining marriage aren't the same thing. We have a saying here: make sure you compare apples with apples.

But since this whole black/gay thing has came up again it begs for abuse, LOL! Everytime someone can't do something they compare themselves to black people. People only want to associate themselves with black issues when there's a struggle or some gain for them. Blacks were sitting on the back of buses for a long time before Rosa Parks and not too many people cared, LOL! The civil rights act did way more for white women in the long run than black people. Actually, a preftty strong argument can be made that white males ended up marginalized in the long run.

Where was I? Oh yes. When this started happening a few years ago, I kind of figured it was because people are stupid. Upon reflection, I figured it was a poor attempt at debating. people like to bootstrap an objectionable idea to one that any objection would be politically incorrect.

Now, after reading the same silly argument for the gazillionth time. On re-reflection, the answer's clear. Drum roll....... black men have a right gay white men don't have.  :)

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2007, 10:01:35 PM »
Not a big story IMO.  He is repeating what many people believe.  In fact, it is difficult to accept Biblical teachings (like a substantial number of Americans do) and not conclude homosexuality is "immoral."  Sounds like that's how he was raised.  

Also, homosexual sex is still a crime in the military (unless they changed the UCMJ since I got out many moons ago).

I'd be much more concerned if he was the CEO of a company in a city or state where discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is prohibited.  It's permissible in the military.    

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2007, 10:08:21 PM »
Not a big story IMO.  He is repeating what many people believe.  In fact, it is difficult to accept Biblical teachings (like a substantial number of Americans do) and not conclude homosexuality is "immoral."  Sounds like that's how he was raised.  

Also, homosexual sex is still a crime in the military (unless they changed the UCMJ since I got out many moons ago).

I'd be much more concerned if he was the CEO of a company in a city or state where discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is prohibited.  It's permissible in the military.    

I find it completely hilarious that an army Gen. who recruits and commands thousands of men to go out and KILL thousands of other men, has the audacity to talk about morals. HELLO?? Do we not see the disconnect here?

...especially when you talk about Biblically based morality. If i recall one of those biblical commandments is:

Thou shall not KILL   ::)

But then again... cherry picking isn't a new thing at the Pentagon. same 'ol same 'ol.  ::)
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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 10:10:16 PM »
Maybe the problem as you outline it, isn't with gays, ...but rather with men PERIOD!?  ;)

Ziegfried & Roy

i never believed that there was ever such thing as a 'soul mate' or relationships that are 'meant to be' -until  i saw them.. one gay lion tamer hooking up with another gay lion tamer? what are the chances?

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2007, 10:10:35 PM »
I find it completely hilarious that an army Gen. who recruits and commands thousands of men to go out and KILL thousands of other men, has the audacity to talk about morals. HELLO?? Do we not see the disconnect here?

...especially when you talk about Biblically based morality. If i recall one of those biblical commandments is:

Thou shall not KILL   ::)

But then again... cherry picking isn't a new thing at the Pentagon. same 'ol same 'ol.  ::)

Judi,

Those are late term abortions. :)

kh300

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2007, 10:16:11 PM »


Thou shall not KILL   ::)



thats from exodus. the bible says taking of a life does'nt always mean murder. its better understood as thou shall not murder

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2007, 10:30:05 PM »
I find it completely hilarious that an army Gen. who recruits and commands thousands of men to go out and KILL thousands of other men, has the audacity to talk about morals. HELLO?? Do we not see the disconnect here?

...especially when you talk about Biblically based morality. If i recall one of those biblical commandments is:

Thou shall not KILL   ::)

But then again... cherry picking isn't a new thing at the Pentagon. same 'ol same 'ol.  ::)

The fact is homosexual sex is a crime in the military. 

And the commandment is do not murder. 

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2007, 10:43:08 PM »
The fact is homosexual sex is a crime in the military. 

And the commandment is do not murder. 

What a brilliant system you have. In a time of war, when you're doing sooo well, ...
...you'd kick out strong, competent, able-bodied, skilled personnel who want to serve their country,
...and replace them with wounded & injured personnel, unfit to fight, ...because they're straight. HA!

Brilliant! ...no wonder you're winning so handsomely. I'll bet it's gonna be one heckuva victory parade!
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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2007, 10:46:40 PM »
Judi,

Those are late term abortions. :)

Don't try and inject logic into this.  You'll just confuse people.   :)

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Re: Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2007, 10:47:17 PM »
thats from exodus. the bible says taking of a life does'nt always mean murder. its better understood as thou shall not murder

Hey I just said that . . . .  :)