Author Topic: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08  (Read 4684 times)

Dos Equis

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Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« on: March 29, 2007, 08:56:49 AM »
Not surprising at all IMO. 

Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
Thursday, Mar. 29, 2007 By JAY CARNEY/WASHINGTON  Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and US Sen. Hillary Clinton
Left, David Paul Morris / Getty; Hector Mata / AFP / Getty
Article ToolsPrintEmailReprints  Could things be any worse for George W. Bush and his beleaguered party? In the new TIME poll, the President's job approval rating continues to wallow near his all-time lows, at 33%, while his disapproval rating breaks the 60% barrier for the third consecutive survey. On Iraq, meanwhile, just 38% of respondents think the U.S. was right to invade, and only 37% believe "the new Iraqi government will be able to build a stable and reasonably Democratic society." Given a choice of policy options going forward, 68% endorse proposals to withdraw most combat troops, either within a year or no later than August 31, 2008, while just 28% say troops should stay in the country "as long as needed until the Iraqis can handle the situation themselves."

And then there's the burgeoning scandal stemming from the Justice Department's dismissal last year of eight U.S. attorneys. Forty-eight percent of respondents say the federal prosecutors were fired because they "refused to be pressured by politics," compared to just 22% who believe they were dismissed "for proper reasons." By a 55-33% margin, Americans believe Bush is refusing to allow top aide Karl Rove and other White House aides to testify under oath "because he's trying to cover up the reasons for the firings" , not because he "wants to preserve the Constitution's separation of powers." A slight plurality, 39-36%, believe Attorney General Alberto Gonzales should resign.

So it's taken almost as a given among the professional political class that the 2008 presidential election is the Democrats' to lose. Republicans are so morose in general, and conservatives so unhappy with their current field of candidates, that the assumption of a Democratic advantage has become bi-partisan. And with the public so soured on the Republican in the White House, and so many other trends working against them, including an up-tick in the percentage of Americans identifying themselves as Democrats , it's hard to find any good news for Republicans these days. So why, in poll after poll, including the new TIME poll, does that advantage seem to disappear whenever voters are asked to pick a president in hypothetical head-to-head match-ups among front-runners with solid name recognition. In our poll, Hillary Clinton loses to John McCain, 42-48%, and to Rudy Giuliani 41-50%. Even though Clinton maintains a 7% edge over Obama among Democratic respondents, Obama fares better in the general election match-ups. It's so close that it's a statistical dead-heat, but Obama still loses: 43-45% to McCain, 44-45% to Giuliani.

It's hard to know exactly why respondents who are generally unhappy towards --and in many cases fed up with -- the GOP might still prefer a Republican for president over a Democrat. Much of it has to do with the individual candidates involved. In Clinton's case, as TIME pollster Mark Shulman points out, "with Hillary the Democratic front-runner, most voters have made up their minds about her, both pro and con. She may have limited upward potential against Republicans. The emerging anti-Hillaries, Obama and Edwards, suffer from low awareness at this point."

Another GOP advantage in these match-ups is the way the party's top two candidates are viewed by the public. "Giuliani and McCain are not traditional Republicans," says Shulman. "Rather they both have an independent streak that plays well in certain traditional Democratic bastions, such as the Northeast and California, the left and right coasts." As anyone following the campaign knows, the perceived "independent streak" that helps both McCain and Giuliani with the general electorate could hurt them, and possibly doom them, with GOP primary voters. Also, as Shulman points out, every Republican candidate is vulnerable because of his support for Bush's policy in Iraq and his closeness to Bush in general. "If Iraq persists as an issue, all of our polls show this will undercut Republican candidates," he says. "Being seen as 'close to Bush' is a real negative in the polls. When the campaign really heats up, the Democrats should have a lot of cards to play."

Democrats also may have a residual disadvantage going into 2008 - a long-standing disposition among voters to view Republicans as stronger on issues involving national security. Without question, Bush has done serious damage to the Republican brand in this arena. But, with the nation waging two wars and terrorism still a threat, that underlying sentiment might be one of the reasons GOP candidates appear competitive at all.

There are other interesting developments in the poll. John Edwards has surged among Democrats since he announced that his wife Elizabeth's cancer had recurred. In a three-way match-up, Clinton polls 38% among registered Democrats, vs 30% for Obama and 26% for Edwards. Edwards received just 17% in mid-March.

In the GOP race, Giuliani's post-announcement honeymoon appears to be over. The former New York City mayor's lead over erstwhile front-runner McCain has narrowed to 13 points, 35-22%, among registered Republicans, down from a 20-point lead two weeks ago.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1604469,00.html?cnn=yes

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2007, 09:10:58 AM »
Which is it?  Do you believe polls, or don't you?

I have showed you Scripps and Zogby polls showing 1/3 and 1/2 of Americans believing 911 was made to, or allowed, to happen.  You rolled your eyes like a confused schoolgirl.

Suddenly there's a TIME poll and you're jizzing your pants.  Make up your mind?

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 09:52:45 AM »
Which is it?  Do you believe polls, or don't you?

I have showed you Scripps and Zogby polls showing 1/3 and 1/2 of Americans believing 911 was made to, or allowed, to happen.  You rolled your eyes like a confused schoolgirl.

Suddenly there's a TIME poll and you're jizzing your pants.  Make up your mind?


This story has nothing to do with 911. 

Tre

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 09:59:36 AM »

The Dems need to find a home-grown, white bread and apple pie candidate that America can easily swallow right now.

This is not rocket science! 

John Edwards - go care for your wife, man.  Leave this bullshit alone (especially since you're not the man for the job anyway). 


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 10:04:10 AM »
The Dems need to find a home-grown, white bread and apple pie candidate that America can easily swallow right now.

This is not rocket science! 

John Edwards - go care for your wife, man.  Leave this bullshit alone (especially since you're not the man for the job anyway). 



Edwards lost me when he pledged to raise my taxes. 

Bill Richardson is a good candidate, but Hillary will crush him, unfortunately.  And where is General Clark? 

I think it's a two-horse race at the moment:  Hillary and Obama. 

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 10:08:39 AM »
The Dems need to find a home-grown, white bread and apple pie candidate that America can easily swallow right now.

This is not rocket science! 

John Edwards - go care for your wife, man.  Leave this bullshit alone (especially since you're not the man for the job anyway). 



I agree, too bad for the Dems that candidate doesn't exist. Their two leading candidates can't win and there's no one else in the party that can unseat those two anyway. I'd be more shocked if the Dems were actually leading in the polls.

Colossus_500

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 02:03:50 PM »
Edwards lost me when he pledged to raise my taxes. 

Bill Richardson is a good candidate, but Hillary will crush him, unfortunately.  And where is General Clark? 

I think it's a two-horse race at the moment:  Hillary and Obama. 
Word is Mrs. Clinton is going to tap Gen. Wesley Clark as her running mate.  She'll be tough to be at that point.  Rudy Guliani will have to come up with a heavy too.  Colin Powell would get my vote.

militarymuscle69

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2007, 02:19:17 PM »
I'm not suprised that GOP is leading. I don't think most americans realize that the senate and house have more effect on day to day life than the Pres. GOP turn out wasn't good in '06 but should be much better in '08. I personally would rather give the pres to a Dem in trade for the senate and house.
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youandme

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2007, 04:34:12 PM »
Colin Powell would get my vote.

Me too. I hate Rudy, I'll be glad when more 9/11 information surges after the release of Loose Change Rudy won't have a chance in hell to even visit the white House.

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2007, 07:30:58 PM »
Word is Mrs. Clinton is going to tap Gen. Wesley Clark as her running mate.  She'll be tough to be at that point.  Rudy Guliani will have to come up with a heavy too.  Colin Powell would get my vote.

I'm not convinced people vote the bottom of the ticket, but I do think someone like Clark would help Hillary a lot.  Rudy/Powell would be very attractive in the general. 

240 is Back

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2007, 08:10:38 PM »
This story has nothing to do with 911. 

Your selective use of polls - they are worthless when you disagree and they are gospel when you believe them - makes you look like stir-fried ass.  HTH.

headhuntersix

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2007, 08:12:25 PM »
I think the problem is that the Dems lasted two seconds before they started their old tricks......Thus everybody who was understandably sick of the repubs, never saw a change. They started this war pull-out crap..knowing Bush would veto..wasting time........they let that shitbag Murtha rant and rave. Pelosi is an idiot. I like Webb abit. Obama has nothing constructive to say..you know what you get with Hilary. I think she would be ok. Obama..Americans will vote in a Black pres..but one named John smith or something..one who sounds alot like a friggen rag will never get in. Edwards needs to dela with his issues. For some reason people hate mormons..Romney is ok. Rudy is not a conservative..Mccain is done. That leaves Fred Thomson....I'd vote for him.
L

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2007, 08:13:21 PM »
Your selective use of polls - they are worthless when you disagree and they are gospel when you believe them - makes you look like stir-fried ass.  HTH.

 ::)

headhuntersix

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2007, 08:18:13 PM »
I know, can we please get awy from 911. I promise to put 240's kid through college if its ever proven..but stop the pain please.
L

240 is Back

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2007, 08:34:55 PM »
LOL... fair enough.  It's been huge news this week so I took notice again.


in all fairness tho - beach bum, either major polling firms are accurate, or they're full of crap.  make up your mind and stop being one of those hypocrites who only believes in them when they like the result.

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2007, 10:36:31 PM »
LOL... fair enough.  It's been huge news this week so I took notice again.


in all fairness tho - beach bum, either major polling firms are accurate, or they're full of crap.  make up your mind and stop being one of those hypocrites who only believes in them when they like the result.

In all fairness, why don't you just shut the heck up already.  I don't care about your stupid 911 conspiracy crap.  Quit injecting it into darn near every thread on this board. 

240 is Back

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2007, 06:45:25 AM »
In all fairness, why don't you just shut the heck up already.  I don't care about your stupid 911 conspiracy crap.  Quit injecting it into darn near every thread on this board. 

I'll shut up and I won't mention 9/11 in this thread again.

Beach Bum, why do you sometimes say polls are valid and useful, and other times, that they're worthless and don't tell us anything?

Either they're backed in science and statistics and allow us to view the beliefs of a larger group based upon an appropruate population sample, or they're not.  Telling me to "shut the heck up" won't do anything but remind the reader here that you don't want to answer this question.

militarymuscle69

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2007, 06:50:25 AM »
In all fairness, why don't you just shut the heck up already.  I don't care about your stupid 911 conspiracy crap.  Quit injecting it into darn near every thread on this board. 

Beach, I'm one of your best friends and allies on here, but I agree. I don't use any Polls whether for my cause or not. But I also agree that I am tired of 9/11
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headhuntersix

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2007, 07:28:34 AM »
In this case I think he was ok to use em......I find it surprising that each time they show presidential polls..Rudy leads the dems as well as the repubs....its early but after 8 years of Bush its kinda surprising.
L

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2007, 07:41:13 AM »
This story has nothing to do with 911. 

I'm sure you understand that his question was about your belief in the credibility of polls - why do you avoid the question?

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2007, 07:45:01 AM »
Edwards lost me when he pledged to raise my taxes. 

Bill Richardson is a good candidate, but Hillary will crush him, unfortunately.  And where is General Clark? 

I think it's a two-horse race at the moment:  Hillary and Obama. 

I commend Edwards for being honest.   Would you prefer he just lied to you instead? 

 

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2007, 08:43:30 AM »
I'll shut up and I won't mention 9/11 in this thread again.

Beach Bum, why do you sometimes say polls are valid and useful, and other times, that they're worthless and don't tell us anything?

Either they're backed in science and statistics and allow us to view the beliefs of a larger group based upon an appropruate population sample, or they're not.  Telling me to "shut the heck up" won't do anything but remind the reader here that you don't want to answer this question.

I don't answer your dumb straw man questions either.   ::)  Now scram. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2007, 08:47:22 AM »
Beach, I'm one of your best friends and allies on here, but I agree. I don't use any Polls whether for my cause or not. But I also agree that I am tired of 9/11

I don't have a lot of faith in polls in general.  I think you can manipulate answers based on the way the questions are asked.  Many of the poll questions I've seen can be answered a number of ways.  I would qualify my answers to many of these questions . . . if they ever called me. 

I view them as discussion pieces for the most part.  Plus I don't trust the media. 

Re 911:  I usually just avoid those threads altogether.

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2007, 08:48:46 AM »
In this case I think he was ok to use em......I find it surprising that each time they show presidential polls..Rudy leads the dems as well as the repubs....its early but after 8 years of Bush its kinda surprising.

I'm not totally surprised.  Rudy is an attractive candidate in the general election.  But I'm still not convinced he makes it out of the Republican primary. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: A Surprising G.O.P. Edge for '08
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2007, 08:49:43 AM »
I'm sure you understand that his question was about your belief in the credibility of polls - why do you avoid the question?


Because I don't answer most of 240's dumb questions, particularly the straw man questions.