Author Topic: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?  (Read 7230 times)

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March 12 (Bloomberg) -- New Century Financial Corp., the nation's second-biggest subprime mortgage lender, said it doesn't have the cash to pay creditors who are demanding their money, increasing speculation that the company will go bankrupt.

The New York Stock Exchange, citing the credit crisis, halted trading of New Century this morning until it decides whether to keep listing the company's securities. Shares of the Irvine, California-based company, already down 90 percent in 2007, lost half their remaining value in pre-market trading, and rivals fell as much as 25 percent today.

``They're one step closer to bankruptcy,'' said Bose George, an analyst at Keefe Bruyette & Woods in New York who rates the shares ``market perform.'' ``The only possibility for survival now is for someone, potentially an investment bank, to step in.''

New Century may be insolvent because too many of its own customers -- most of whom have poor credit histories or heavy debt burdens -- aren't repaying their loans. Bad U.S. subprime mortgages are at a seven-year high, forcing more than two dozen lenders to close or sell operations. Their woes may contribute to more than 1.5 million Americans losing their homes and 100,000 people losing their jobs, according to real estate executives, economists, analysts and a Federal Reserve governor.

New Century said in a federal filing it doesn't have funds to repay lenders including Morgan Stanley, Citigroup Inc. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. The creditors want New Century to repurchase all outstanding mortgage loans they financed.


UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2007, 06:02:11 PM »
Time to cuddle up with Ameriquest.





I wondered why my New Century rep didn't attend my last broker meeting...... :-\

trab

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 02:00:19 PM »
Thing is all these marginal loans are in a precarious position, because
NO ONE CAN SELL A DAMN HOME NOW TO SAVE THEIR ASS!
Take a big hit on any real estate now (esp if bought @ the peak).
 Mass forclosures will add to a allready flooded market.
Lenders made extra dime on subPrime for a REASON - it's RISKY!

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 01:49:34 PM »
Thing is all these marginal loans are in a precarious position, because
NO ONE CAN SELL A DAMN HOME NOW TO SAVE THEIR ASS!
Take a big hit on any real estate now (esp if bought @ the peak).
 Mass forclosures will add to a allready flooded market.
Lenders made extra dime on subPrime for a REASON - it's RISKY!

Oh so true. Most sub prime lenders charge discount points in addition to whatever fees are added by a broker.(if one is being used.)

Closing fees usually start on average at $13,000 versus an A paper loan where costs average out at $3500, minus escrow.

Tesla

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 05:08:12 PM »
New Century is dead.  Here's a good site for tracking the collapse of the subprime lending industry:

http://www.ml-implode.com/

The fallout from this subprime mess will be very interesting.  Wall Street isn't buying anymore of these junk mortgages, so people aren't originating them.  A lot of the other mortgage types that aren't technically subprime (stated income, interest only, negative amortization, etc.) are nonetheless extremely risky, and the market for them is also going to decay. 

Basically it's already tougher to get a mortgage now than it was last year, and it's going to get much tougher still.  This is when real estate prices are really going to bomb. 

I've been following this real estate bubble for about 3 years.  In 2004-2005 everyone told me I was crazy for thinking that prices were way too high, that we were in a new era, that "they aren't making any more land", "everyone wants to live here", "buy now or be priced out forever", "real estate never goes down in value", etc.  It was obvious the whole time that we were in a massive speculative bubble.  The correction will not be pretty. 

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 05:54:45 PM »
New Century is dead.  Here's a good site for tracking the collapse of the subprime lending industry:

http://www.ml-implode.com/

The fallout from this subprime mess will be very interesting.  Wall Street isn't buying anymore of these junk mortgages, so people aren't originating them.  A lot of the other mortgage types that aren't technically subprime (stated income, interest only, negative amortization, etc.) are nonetheless extremely risky, and the market for them is also going to decay.  

Basically it's already tougher to get a mortgage now than it was last year, and it's going to get much tougher still.  This is when real estate prices are really going to bomb. 

I've been following this real estate bubble for about 3 years.  In 2004-2005 everyone told me I was crazy for thinking that prices were way too high, that we were in a new era, that "they aren't making any more land", "everyone wants to live here", "buy now or be priced out forever", "real estate never goes down in value", etc.  It was obvious the whole time that we were in a massive speculative bubble.  The correction will not be pretty. 

Those specialty programs are credit specific. On average, there's a higher percentage of B paper clientele who are more inclined to default on those types of loans. That's the reason these subprime lenders are going under because they're offering the specialty loans to customers with below average financial pedigree.

On the other hand, people with an above average credit standing are eligible for these programs with seemingly little risk to the lender. As long as stable assets are verified you won't have to disclose W-2 wages and/or 1099's because the lender is aware that you have something put away for a rainy day. Self-employed people especially, are the candidates for stated income loans for obvious tax reasons. Therefore, because of it's demand and manageability, the stated income loan will always exist as a speciality loan.

trab

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 06:17:07 PM »
I'm not up on all the technicalities you two are, but I see this; There's still people being put into housing that there is NO WAY they should be. A guy I know comes to mind. They just got him into 4000sq ft of home, and then, dip-shit decides he really needs a Hummer in the driveway to...  Two months later he's tellin me he made a mistake. Well, good luck selling that mini-castle for what you paid bud.
THey need to shut this madness down. We're all going to get pulled under with these dorks.

gordiano

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 01:02:27 AM »
I'm not up on all the technicalities you two are, but I see this; There's still people being put into housing that there is NO WAY they should be. A guy I know comes to mind. They just got him into 4000sq ft of home, and then, dip-shit decides he really needs a Hummer in the driveway to...  Two months later he's tellin me he made a mistake. Well, good luck selling that mini-castle for what you paid bud.
THey need to shut this madness down. We're all going to get pulled under with these dorks.

Damn, I know some people like the ones you just described.... :-\
HAHA, RON.....

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 07:17:29 AM »
I'm not up on all the technicalities you two are, but I see this; There's still people being put into housing that there is NO WAY they should be. A guy I know comes to mind. They just got him into 4000sq ft of home, and then, deposit decides he really needs a Hummer in the driveway to...  Two months later he's telling me he made a mistake. Well, good luck selling that mini-castle for what you paid bud.
They need to shut this madness down. We're all going to get pulled under with these dorks.

Absolutely correct. That's why most lenders are only too happy to provide loans for these types of people to buy houses. They know that the owners will at least keep up the payments in the short term before they start defaulting on their loans. During that short interim, the bank will have made a substantial enough profit on the interest paid before a possible foreclosure takes place.
 
That's why it is so much easier to get qualified for a home loan while putting nothing down as a down payment, despite having a less than average credit rating. There's still money to be made for the lender. However, let those same people apply for a refinance to try to cash out some equity and watch the lender put on the brakes and make them jump through hoops.

It's a lot easier to buy than it is to refinance equity on a house you don't own free and clear. HUD has these ridiculous low income housing purchasing loans that benefit people that are most likely to default on loans.  I'm talking about buying a house that normally would be $500,000 but only at a cost of $250,000 to these types of people. It's atrocious and it needs to stop. It's a major contributing factor for the demise of the subprime lender and the housing market itself.

On the plus side, maybe there are TOO many of these types of lenders and it's a good thing they're currently shutting down. Ameriquest, New Century, and possibly Novastar in the future are the perfect examples of the culprits responsible for these isssues.

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2007, 07:18:54 AM »
Damn, I know some people like the ones you just described.... :-\

It believe the term is referred to as "ni**er rich", minus the racial overtones.

trab

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2007, 08:34:00 AM »
What I'm afraid of is with the housing market SATURATED right now, any flood of more homes dumped into the market.  Like when a stock is bailed out of enmasse and it plummets thru all support.(Ford earlier this year was a bad mourning)

I've seen firsthand the repercussions of the Bangkok Boom/ Bust realestate market when they went Rags-Riches-Rags, and I tell ya it's NOT FUNNY!  Street after street of bank owned properties (many VERY nice ones)that no can afford. These places are still gathering dust and decaying. Unfinished luxury developments
are vandal Paradise. Highrise skeletons with squatters cook-fire smoke drifting skyward stand as monuments to stupidity.  I hope, dont think anything of that magnitude can hit the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, snicker, snicker, laugh, laugh, but there is no financial/economic law of physics that prevents it.
Todays shopping mall generations didn't see gas prices almost double overnight (courtesy Iran and co.)
I'm not so cheery on the outlook meself.

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2007, 12:15:52 PM »
You have many reasons not to predict a positive outcome. I'm sure it will get worse before it gets better.

But.....I do feel everything operates in cycles, peaks and valleys, or as a bell curve. The housing market will rebound despite the issues previously discussed. And yes it will happen in our lifetime. ;)

You just can't cook an omelet without breaking a few eggs along the way.

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 06:40:50 PM »
Real estate market is INCREDIBLE for renters in SW florida. 

trab

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2007, 01:57:56 AM »
Real estate market is INCREDIBLE for renters in SW florida. 

? Low Rents & lots to choose from?

I tell ya, they cant sell a house up here in the Midwest (Madison Wi) area to save themselves right now.
 The market was red hot though. Everyone was making money hand over fist. You couldn't overbid construction trades work, or blow a real estate deal if you tried. Someone else'd  step in and pay up.

Migs

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 12:48:10 PM »
my mortgage broker had 50 subprime lenders, now down to 15.  I show my clients homes and pray that there is a loan prgram for them when i pass them to my loan guy

danielson

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2007, 12:49:37 PM »
my mortgage broker had 50 subprime lenders, now down to 15.  I show my clients homes and pray that there is a loan prgram for them when i pass them to my loan guy

You don't make them get prequalified? It only takes your broker 10 minutes. Don't you waste a lot of time showing deadbeats homes that way?
E

Tesla

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2007, 06:23:11 PM »
Real estate market is INCREDIBLE for renters in SW florida. 

Around Boston the story is the same.  I've just upgraded from a small 2 bedroom apartment to a big townhouse in a better neighborhood for only $70 extra per month.  2 years ago I would've had to pay about $400 more per month.  craigslist is your friend; that's where you can find the most desperate landlords  8)   

Migs

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2007, 07:22:48 PM »
You don't make them get prequalified? It only takes your broker 10 minutes. Don't you waste a lot of time showing deadbeats homes that way?

i get them prequaled, but when they actually start to apply programs change.  we deal with lower scored people.  Many want 100% financing..

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2007, 01:11:07 AM »
A return to good guidelines, lower LTV/CLTV loans are in order.  Doing stated income "liar loans" for wage earners is almost predatory.  Too many RESPA violations were occuring within a lot of subprime lenders.  I am glad we are seeing a revamping of standards, I hope some of these idiots get prosecuted to the fullest extent for a lot of the FRAUD that was occuring. 

trab

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2007, 03:03:35 AM »
A return to good guidelines, lower LTV/CLTV loans are in order.  Doing stated income "liar loans" for wage earners is almost predatory.  Too many RESPA violations were occuring within a lot of subprime lenders.  I am glad we are seeing a revamping of standards, I hope some of these idiots get prosecuted to the fullest extent for a lot of the FRAUD that was occuring. 

Yes! We are all going to pay for these idiot + a robber loan writer comb. Possibly worse than the younger generations here remember.  We have all the ingredients for a bad economic problem. Worldwide.
"Liar Loans & Predatory" is total clarity.

americanbulldog

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2007, 03:10:44 AM »
Sad thing is at national NAMB meetings, they didn't see this as a problem a couple of years ago.....  Common sense dictates that if your borrowers income exceeds even subprime debt ratios, doing the loan does more harm to the end user (bond purchaser) which in turn kills the industry.  Total greed and idiocy. 

danielson

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2007, 04:04:32 AM »
A return to good guidelines, lower LTV/CLTV loans are in order.  Doing stated income "liar loans" for wage earners is almost predatory.  Too many RESPA violations were occuring within a lot of subprime lenders.  I am glad we are seeing a revamping of standards, I hope some of these idiots get prosecuted to the fullest extent for a lot of the FRAUD that was occuring. 

I hope not. :)
E

Migs

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americanbulldog

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2007, 07:50:09 PM »
I hope not. :)

Well, I double hope so...  They make everyone else in lending seem incompetent when YOU refuse to falsify income and asset statements like it has been done. 

240 is Back

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Re: Real estate collapse looms. #2 lender in US to declare bankruptcy?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2007, 07:57:15 AM »
i just moved into a dman mansion, and I'm paying 200 more than I used to.

I have TWO offices :) :) :) :)