L-Carnitine

[mame09]

has anyone ever used the injectable vet version.

if so what are the sides because i cant find nothing on the internet that goes into depth about it

[spirospros]

there is no reason for inj carnitine 

[abc123]

I use the human version preworkout with my Humalog.  It works well when dieting.

[muscle19]

you do your slin preworkout??

[tbombz]

I use the human version preworkout with my Humalog.  It works well when dieting.

Thats interesting. What for?

[Van_Bilderass]

I use the human version preworkout with my Humalog.  It works well when dieting.

IF carnitine does something worthwhile it's probably a good idea to dose it with the insulin.

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Feb;292(2):E637-41. Epub 2006 Oct 17.

A threshold exists for the stimulatory effect of insulin on plasma L-carnitine clearance in humans.

Stephens FB, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Laithwaite D, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL.

School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Nottingham Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, NG7 2UH, UK. francis.stephens@nottingham.ac.uk

Maintaining hyperinsulinemia ( approximately 160 mU/l) during steady-state hypercarnitinemia ( approximately 550 mumol/l) increases skeletal muscle total carnitine (TC) content by approximately 15% within 5 h. The aim of the present study was to further examine the relationship between serum insulin concentration and skeletal muscle carnitine accumulation by attempting to identify the serum insulin concentration at which this stimulatory effect of insulin on carnitine retention becomes apparent. On four randomized experimental visits, eight healthy men (body mass index 23.8 +/- 0.9 kg/m(2)) underwent a 6-h euglycemic insulin clamp of 5, 30, 55, or 105 mU x m(-2) x min(-1) accompanied by a 5-h iv infusion of l-carnitine (15 mg/kg bolus followed by 10 mg x kg(-1) x h(-1)). The clamps produced steady-state serum insulin concentrations of 10.1 +/- 0.5, 48.8 +/- 1.0, 88.9 +/- 2.8, and 173.9 +/- 6.5 mU/l, respectively. During l-carnitine infusion, plasma TC concentration remained above 450 mumol/l during all four visits. However, there was a significant treatment effect of insulin (P < 0.001), such that by the end of infusion the plasma TC concentration in the 55- and 105-mU clamps was lower than that seen in the 5- (P < 0.05 and P < 0.01, respectively) and 30-mU (P < 0.01) clamps. The findings demonstrate that only high circulating serum insulin concentrations (> or =90 mU/l) are capable of stimulating skeletal muscle carnitine accumulation. This is of relevance to athletes, and the treatment of obesity and type 2 diabetes, where increasing skeletal muscle carnitine content may be used as tool to modify skeletal muscle energy metabolism.

FASEB J. 2006 Feb;20(2):377-9. Epub 2005 Dec 20.

Insulin stimulates L-carnitine accumulation in human skeletal muscle.

Stephens FB, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Laithwaite D, Simpson EJ, Greenhaff PL.

Centre for Integrated Systems Biology and Medicine, School of Biomedical Sciences, Queen's Medical Centre, University of Nottingham, NG7 2UH, UK.

Increasing skeletal muscle carnitine content may alleviate the decline in muscle fat oxidation seen during intense exercise. Studies to date, however, have failed to increase muscle carnitine content, in healthy humans, by dietary or intravenous L-carnitine administration. We hypothesized that insulin could augment Na+-dependent skeletal muscle carnitine transport. On two randomized visits, eight healthy men underwent 5 h of intravenous L-carnitine infusion with serum insulin maintained at fasting (7.4+/-0.4 mIU*l(-1)) or physiologically high (149.2+/-6.9 mIU*l(-1)) concentrations. The combination of hypercarnitinemia (approximately 500 micromol*l(-1)) and hyperinsulinemia increased muscle total carnitine (TC) content from 22.0 +/- 0.9 to 24.7 +/- 1.4 mmol*(kg dm)(-1) (P<0.05) and was associated with a 2.3 +/- 0.3-fold increase in carnitine transporter protein (OCTN2) mRNA expression (P<0.05). Hypercarnitinemia in the presence of a fasting insulin concentration had no effect on either of these parameters. This study demonstrates that insulin can acutely increase muscle TC content in humans during hypercarnitinemia, which is associated with an increase in OCTN2 transcription. These novel findings may be of importance to the regulation of muscle fat oxidation during exercise, particularly in obesity and type 2 diabetes where it is known to be impaired.

[mame09]

IF carnitine does something worthwhile it's probably a good idea to dose it with the insulin.

do you have to use insulin or can you use it on it own

[Van_Bilderass]

do you have to use insulin or can you use it on it own

Sure you can. The question is does it help a bodybuilder lose fat  or whatever (with or without insulin). What do you want to achieve with it?

I was just speculating that it might be a good idea to dose it when insulin is high to help uptake in muscle. I'm too lazy to check if the insulin concentrations used in those studies are achievable through diet only. Probably are, since the second study says "high physiological" and not supraphysiological.

[mame09]

Sure you can. The question is does it help a bodybuilder lose fat  or whatever (with or without insulin). What do you want to achieve with it?

I was just speculating that it might be a good idea to dose it when insulin is high to help uptake in muscle. I'm too lazy to check if the insulin concentrations used in those studies are achievable through diet only. Probably are, since the second study says "high physiological" and not supraphysiological.

i want to use it for weight loss.

from what i understand it uses the fat you already have and coverts it to energy. from the studies i have read about carnitine being used for grey hounds is they feed them a high fatty foods before a race and inject them with it since grey hounds dont have much body fat