MIKE MENTZER VS. ARNOLD AT THE 1980 O!

[Robert the Bruce]

What did Mike Mentzer face off with Arnold before the show, what happened between them? Anyone know   

[Stark]

Mike told Arnold that he believe he was not in shape enough to have won..

Somebody post that insane good picture of them arguning in the changing room...classic (Alphawolfmale) Arnold moment.

[Robert the Bruce]

wow....I saw the pic of that, arnold would have knocked him out easily if he had pushed the issue. Mike Mentzer never was very bright

[Max_Rep]

Mentzer following Arthur Jones lead, wrote several training articles were he said something to the effect of “Imagine how amazing Arnold would have been if he had trained properly.”

That’s where it all started.

Arnold had won 6 Mr. Olympia’s and he rightfully took offense to Mike writing disparaging remarks on how he trained only to promote his own style as being superior.

And the feud began….

[Robert the Bruce]

damn

[Stark]

It's quit an offensive thing to say... damn

[tu_holmes]

I love Arnold... no problem, but let's face it... For him to just show up and compete is kind of wrong.

I mean, he was Arnold... He had made movies by now and everyone knew who he was... For him to be sneaky and act like he was just coming along to watch, then get a number and get on stage was a bit messed up don't you think.

That being said, Mentzer probably could have been a lot more respectful about the fact that it was Arnold after all.

[Sergio Rules 77]

Mike told Arnold that he believe he was not in shape enough to have won..

Somebody post that insane good picture of them arguning in the changing room...classic (Alphawolfmale) Arnold moment.

SERGIO!!!!

[alexxx]

Thanks max rep that is some interesting stuff. Mentzer had an ego too huh?

[pumpster]

wow....I saw the pic of that, arnold would have knocked him out easily if he had pushed the issue. Mike Mentzer never was very bright

Actually Arnold had a rep as a puzzy who always backed down. Instead, he got one of his cronies to do the work, in this case Waller's nearby thus Arnold could act like a tough guy and insult Mentzer on being fat.

[Max_Rep]

Thanks max rep that is some interesting stuff. Mentzer had an ego too huh?

A bodybuilder with an ego? Say it isn't so! Yes Mike had an ego especially when it came to training methods. He always had to be right. That’s why I found it difficult to hang out with Mike and Ray when I did. You could never have a discussion with them. It was always a lecture.

You also have to remember that MOST of Mike's training philosophies came from Arthur Jones who continually ridiculed anyone who didn't see the logic in his training philosophies as well as his views on exercise choices. Jones always made it sound like those who didn’t accept his methods were not intelligent.  

I saw on another thread were someone posted a youtube of Markus doing a set of barbell curls under Mikes tutelage. Mike commented about always using a straight bar for curls. That was a Jones concept.

Jones believed that exercises that allowed the most resistance while the muscle was at a point of maximum contraction were superior to those that aren’t. Since one function of the bicep is supination there is more contraction possible at the top of a curl with a straight bar (Jones speaking). He also came up with the parallel grip 24 inch pulldown bar and chinning handles. This was to overcome the fact that since the biceps is the weak link when doing back work, you still want them to be at their strongest position which was either underhand or parallel versus the traditional overhand grip. The 24 inch grip he felt offered a greater range of movement for the lats than the wide grip. There were many more (again these are Jones beliefs not mine).

I bring this up because it all was an attack that Jones launched on traditional training as advocated in the Weider magazines and was also an attack on Arnolds training although Jones never really directly mentioned Arnold.

Mike did the dirty work on that one.

[AVBG]

Mike was a crybaby 

[alexxx]

A bodybuilder with an ego? Say it isn't so! Yes Mike had an ego especially when it came to training methods. He always had to be right. That’s why I found it difficult to hang out with Mike and Ray when I did. You could never have a discussion with them. It was always a lecture.

You also have to remember that MOST of Mike's training philosophies came from Arthur Jones who continually ridiculed anyone who didn't see the logic in his training philosophies as well as his views on exercise choices. Jones always made it sound like those who didn’t accept his methods were not intelligent.  

I saw on another thread were someone posted a youtube of Markus doing a set of barbell curls under Mikes tutelage. Mike commented about always using a straight bar for curls. That was a Jones concept.

Jones believed that exercises that allowed the most resistance while the muscle was at a point of maximum contraction were superior to those that aren’t. Since one function of the bicep is supination there is more contraction possible at the top of a curl with a straight bar (Jones speaking). He also came up with the parallel grip 24 inch pulldown bar and chinning handles. This was to overcome the fact that since the biceps is the weak link when doing back work, you still want them to be at their strongest position which was either underhand or parallel versus the traditional overhand grip. The 24 inch grip he felt offered a greater range of movement for the lats than the wide grip. There were many more (again these are Jones beliefs not mine).

I bring this up because it all was an attack that Jones launched on traditional training as advocated in the Weider magazines and was also an attack on Arnolds training although Jones never really directly mentioned Arnold.

Mike did the dirty work on that one.

Great thanks for sharing. Now I know why Dante doesn't want his system to be mentioned in the same light as hit.

Did you ever train with Arnold?

[what:]

Didn't Mike run into a bank one time and yell at the tellers that Arnold was out to get him?

[Max_Rep]

Didn't Mike run into a bank one time and yell at the tellers that Arnold was out to get him?

Yes I told that story a while back. He was vertain that Arnold hitmen were following him. He ran in and told the manager to call the cops because someone was trying to kill him then he dove behind the counter under a desk. The cops came and roughed him up and arrested him. Mike admitted to me that it was all true. That bank is/was right down the strret from me but is now a tile store.

Alexx... no I never trained with Arnold. Our paths crossed a few times but never officially met. I trained with Danny Padilla right after he spent several months training with Arnold so the training was very similar.

[alexxx]

Yes I told that story a while back. He was vertain that Arnold hitmen were following him. He ran in and told the manager to call the cops because someone was trying to kill him then he dove behind the counter under a desk. The cops came and roughed him up and arrested him. Mike admitted to me that it was all true. That bank is/was right down the strret from me but is now a tile store.

Alexx... no I never trained with Arnold. Our paths crossed a few times but never officially met. I trained with Danny Padilla right after he spent several months training with Arnold so the training was very similar.

How was that? What can you tell me out Danny's training? Danny had one of the best physiques ever if the best for a shorter competitor.

[wolfgang187]

  Following the loss at the 1980 Mr. Olympia, Mentzer reportedly ran into numerous problems. In the late 1970's Mike is was reported to have begun using amphetamines, claiming he only took them as an ergogenic aid to help facilitate a hectic lifestyle. Mentzer left his position at Weider Publications shortly after his loss at the Mr. Olympia contest, and suffered financially as a result. He did land a job in 1985 as editor of the newly launched Workout Magazine, however when that failed and that same year his father died, Mentzer reportedly suffered a mental breakdown. According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX Magazine, stories began to surface of Menzter exhibiting some very erratic behaviour.

  Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, being arrested by the police numerous times and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another. Popular bodybuilding writer Dan Duchaine even suggested that Menzter was drinking his own urine at the time. Mike denied this in a 2001 interview with Iron Man magazine. Nonetheless, according to McGough some of these stories are true.  Menzter was also regularly institutionalized between 1985 up until 1990, when he finally kicked his amphetamine habit.  Mentzer was reportedly a heavy user of methamphetamine for about a decade, and this was thought of as a contributing factor in his death.

[Max_Rep]

He did land a job in 1985 as editor of the newly launched Workout Magazine, however when that failed and that same year his father died, Mentzer reportedly suffered a mental breakdown.

It was very shortly after the failure of "Workout" that the bank incident happened. The way I heard it was that Mike owned the magazine. My ex-wife was a model for a workout section of one of the magazine issues.

For Alex... I did an interview with Danny in an issue of Ironman a few years ago. This is an exerpt of the interview. 

Danny Padilla workout.

He’ used the same basic workout for years. This was the workout he did when I trained with him for six weeks in 1977.

During most of the year Danny trains 4 to 6 days a week  He always follows the same split. Day 1 Chest and Back. Day 2  Shoulders and Arms. Day 3 legs. Repeat. If he misses a workout, (which he often does, he doesn’t worry about it, he just does that workout when he returns to the gym. During this time he does 2 to 3 exercises per body-part for 5 sets of 12 reps. Danny uses the same weight in each set. When he can get 12 reps on all 5 sets, he’ll add weight during the next workout. His rest between sets is short. No longer than a minute. Even though the volume is high Danny completes these workouts in just over an hour… This is another way of keeping the intensity high which was taught by Vince Gironda, Bill Pearl and other great trainers of “the golden era” of bodybuilding.   

Chest and Back
Bench Press 2-3 warm-up sets then 5 X 12
Incline 5 X 12
Flys 5 X 12
Dumbell Pullovers 5 X 12
Chins 5 X 12
Bent Barbell Rows 5 X 12
Cable Pull-ins 5 X 12
Once a week he does Deadlifts 5 X 12

Shoulders and Arms
Seated presses 2 warm-ups then 5 X 12
Super-seted with cable laterals 5 X 12
Dumbbell rear delt raises 5 X 12
Front Raises OR Upright Rows 5 X 12
Dumbell Curls 5 X 8
Barbell Curls 5 X 8
Concentration Curls OR Preacher Curls 5 X 8
Lying triceps extensions 5 X 12
Seated overhead EZ bar extensions 5 X 12
Pushdowns OR One arm dumbbell overhead extensions 5 X 12

Legs – Abs
Leg Extensions 5 X 12
Squats 5 X 12
Leg Presses 5 X 12
Lying Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 12
Donkey Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15
Crunches or Leg Raises 5 X 20
 

Contest Training: Volume on body part is raised 20 sets per bodypart. Weeks 12-7 body parts are trained twice a week. During weeks 6-0 each body part is trained three times a week. Danny gains size right up to the day of the contest even on this high volume, high frequency routine.

Weeks 12 to 7


Monday and Thursday -- Chest and Back
Bench Press 2-3 warm-up sets then 5 X 12
Incline 5 X 12
Fly’s 5 X 12
Cable Fly’s 5 X 12
Chins 5 X 12
Bent Barbell Rows 5 X 12
Cable Pull-ins 5 X 12
Pulldowns 5 X 12
Once a week he does Deadlifts 5 X 12

Tuesday and Friday -- Shoulders and Arms
Seated presses 2 warm-ups then 5 X 12
Superseted with cable laterals 5 X 12
Dumbbell rear delt raises 5 X 12
Front Raises
Upright Rows 5 X 12
Dumbell Curls 5 X 8
Barbell Curls 5 X 8
Concentration Curls 5 X 8
Preacher Curls 5 X 8
Lying triceps extensions 5 X 12
Seated overhead EZ bar extensions 5 X 12
Pushdowns 5 X 12
One arm dumbbell overhead extensions 5 X 12
Reverse Curls 5 X 12
Wrist Curls 5 X 12

Wednesday and Saturday – Legs -- Abs
Leg Extensions 5 X 12
Squats 5 X 12
Leg Presses 5 X 12
Hack Squats 5 X 12
Lying Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 15
Donkey Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15 
Crunches 5 X 20
Leg Raises 5 X 20

Weeks 6 – 0

Workouts are the same as above, rest between sets is shortened but days are split like this:

Monday Wednesday Friday Morning
Chest, Back
Monday Wednesday Friday Evening 
Quads, Hamstrings
Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday Morning
Shoulders, Arms
Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday Evening
Calves, Abs
 

[Royalty]

  Following the loss at the 1980 Mr. Olympia, Mentzer reportedly ran into numerous problems. In the late 1970's Mike is was reported to have begun using amphetamines, claiming he only took them as an ergogenic aid to help facilitate a hectic lifestyle. Mentzer left his position at Weider Publications shortly after his loss at the Mr. Olympia contest, and suffered financially as a result. He did land a job in 1985 as editor of the newly launched Workout Magazine, however when that failed and that same year his father died, Mentzer reportedly suffered a mental breakdown. According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX Magazine, stories began to surface of Menzter exhibiting some very erratic behaviour.

  Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, being arrested by the police numerous times and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another. Popular bodybuilding writer Dan Duchaine even suggested that Menzter was drinking his own urine at the time. Mike denied this in a 2001 interview with Iron Man magazine. Nonetheless, according to McGough some of these stories are true.  Menzter was also regularly institutionalized between 1985 up until 1990, when he finally kicked his amphetamine habit.  Mentzer was reportedly a heavy user of methamphetamine for about a decade, and this was thought of as a contributing factor in his death.

I read 2 seperate stories that he would run into golds in Mecca....totally disheveled...and would scream weird things...and then run back out. That was printd in a early 90's Mascle Mag.


This is probably a false rumor but some did say that he had a gay relationship with his brother Ray (I pray that is a false rumor started by some loser)

[pumpster]

This is probably a false rumor but some did say that he had a gay relationship with his brother Ray (I pray that is a false rumor started by some loser)

Some loser who would repeat it here? Never heard that before.

[wolfgang187]

   Sounds like Hunter S Tompson spent some time with Mike!

[Royalty]

Some loser who would repeat it here? Never heard that before.

there were so many things flying around the web in the days and weeks following their deaths...

I mean seriously....the things being said were all very, very weird.

[Max_Rep]

there were so many things flying around the web in the days and weeks following their deaths...

I mean seriously....the things being said were all very, very weird.

Ramazon knew of a few of those things because she was married to Don Ross and he was around to personally see a few of them. I ran into Don a few times at Ray's Gym around 1983-4. She told me about the directing traffic thing when her and I had dinner a few years ago.

I only put stock into what I actually saw, what Mike or Ray admitted to and what people who were actually there witnessed.

The gay brother thing I think is just stupid. Ray was in bad shape health-wise for quite a while and he was also in really bad shape financially. Mike was doing pretty well because MD was paying him $10,000 a month for 2 articles a month. He also had quite a backlog of phone consultations and clients so he got Ray to help him and move in with him. I hardly think that, that translates to gay stuff between brothers.   

[rccs]

It was very shortly after the failure of "Workout" that the bank incident happened. The way I heard it was that Mike owned the magazine. My ex-wife was a model for a workout section of one of the magazine issues.

For Alex... I did an interview with Danny in an issue of Ironman a few years ago. This is an exerpt of the interview. 

Danny Padilla workout.

He’ used the same basic workout for years. This was the workout he did when I trained with him for six weeks in 1977.

During most of the year Danny trains 4 to 6 days a week  He always follows the same split. Day 1 Chest and Back. Day 2  Shoulders and Arms. Day 3 legs. Repeat. If he misses a workout, (which he often does, he doesn’t worry about it, he just does that workout when he returns to the gym. During this time he does 2 to 3 exercises per body-part for 5 sets of 12 reps. Danny uses the same weight in each set. When he can get 12 reps on all 5 sets, he’ll add weight during the next workout. His rest between sets is short. No longer than a minute. Even though the volume is high Danny completes these workouts in just over an hour… This is another way of keeping the intensity high which was taught by Vince Gironda, Bill Pearl and other great trainers of “the golden era” of bodybuilding.   

Chest and Back
Bench Press 2-3 warm-up sets then 5 X 12
Incline 5 X 12
Flys 5 X 12
Dumbell Pullovers 5 X 12
Chins 5 X 12
Bent Barbell Rows 5 X 12
Cable Pull-ins 5 X 12
Once a week he does Deadlifts 5 X 12

Shoulders and Arms
Seated presses 2 warm-ups then 5 X 12
Super-seted with cable laterals 5 X 12
Dumbbell rear delt raises 5 X 12
Front Raises OR Upright Rows 5 X 12
Dumbell Curls 5 X 8
Barbell Curls 5 X 8
Concentration Curls OR Preacher Curls 5 X 8
Lying triceps extensions 5 X 12
Seated overhead EZ bar extensions 5 X 12
Pushdowns OR One arm dumbbell overhead extensions 5 X 12

Legs – Abs
Leg Extensions 5 X 12
Squats 5 X 12
Leg Presses 5 X 12
Lying Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 12
Donkey Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15
Crunches or Leg Raises 5 X 20
 

Contest Training: Volume on body part is raised 20 sets per bodypart. Weeks 12-7 body parts are trained twice a week. During weeks 6-0 each body part is trained three times a week. Danny gains size right up to the day of the contest even on this high volume, high frequency routine.

Weeks 12 to 7


Monday and Thursday -- Chest and Back
Bench Press 2-3 warm-up sets then 5 X 12
Incline 5 X 12
Fly’s 5 X 12
Cable Fly’s 5 X 12
Chins 5 X 12
Bent Barbell Rows 5 X 12
Cable Pull-ins 5 X 12
Pulldowns 5 X 12
Once a week he does Deadlifts 5 X 12

Tuesday and Friday -- Shoulders and Arms
Seated presses 2 warm-ups then 5 X 12
Superseted with cable laterals 5 X 12
Dumbbell rear delt raises 5 X 12
Front Raises
Upright Rows 5 X 12
Dumbell Curls 5 X 8
Barbell Curls 5 X 8
Concentration Curls 5 X 8
Preacher Curls 5 X 8
Lying triceps extensions 5 X 12
Seated overhead EZ bar extensions 5 X 12
Pushdowns 5 X 12
One arm dumbbell overhead extensions 5 X 12
Reverse Curls 5 X 12
Wrist Curls 5 X 12

Wednesday and Saturday – Legs -- Abs
Leg Extensions 5 X 12
Squats 5 X 12
Leg Presses 5 X 12
Hack Squats 5 X 12
Lying Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Leg Curls 5 X 12
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 15
Donkey Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15 
Crunches 5 X 20
Leg Raises 5 X 20

Weeks 6 – 0

Workouts are the same as above, rest between sets is shortened but days are split like this:

Monday Wednesday Friday Morning
Chest, Back
Monday Wednesday Friday Evening 
Quads, Hamstrings
Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday Morning
Shoulders, Arms
Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday Evening
Calves, Abs
 

This WO plan can not be performed by a natural athlete. High rep sets, almost no resting time and 6 x a week! It is very intense, but I don't think that it is the best way to build long lasting thick big muscles...

[BEAST 8692]

Ramazon knew of a few of those things because she was married to Don Ross and he was around to personally see a few of them. I ran into Don a few times at Ray's Gym around 1983-4. She told me about the directing traffic thing when her and I had dinner a few years ago.

I only put stock into what I actually saw, what Mike or Ray admitted to and what people who were actually there witnessed.

The gay brother thing I think is just stupid. Ray was in bad shape health-wise for quite a while and he was also in really bad shape financially. Mike was doing pretty well because MD was paying him $10,000 a month for 2 articles a month. He also had quite a backlog of phone consultations and clients so he got Ray to help him and move in with him. I hardly think that, that translates to gay stuff between brothers.   

it's great to have people like you and Teagan, that actually knew the people involved and can verify what is gossip and what is bs, but for the gay brother thing to gain any momentum at all is sad. a baseless, perverted and extremely cynical attack by a sick individual.