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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: bmacsys on December 08, 2006, 04:27:16 PM
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That he would reevaluate our policies regarding the Israeli/Palestinian? Meaning that we would be completely fair and impartial? Even if it meant condemning Israel's actions in the U.N. along with everyone else?
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Actually it would mean allowing the Israelis to defend themselves from the most pure form of terrorism. Let have it.
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That he would reevaluate our policies regarding the Israeli/Palestinian? Meaning that we would be completely fair and impartial? Even if it meant condemning Israel's actions in the U.N. along with everyone else?
Sure.
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sure..we need to relook some things and make the Israeli's give bit up to settle things down in that area.
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sure..we need to relook some things and make the Israeli's give bit up to settle things down in that area.
It will never be enough. The israelis have made so many offers and so many provisions to try and appease the PL's and they are rejected everytime as never being enough. Even after accepting some of the deals the PL's start fucking off again, kill some people, and then force the israelis back to the table for more.
They have made it clear many times over that they will never be satisfied until the jews are eradicated and israel is in the water.
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I agree. Its a no one situation. They had eveything they wanted back in 98' with Clinton but said no. Their wonderful muslim brothers should give up some worthless dirt for them to live on.
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Yeah... the US is goin too easy on the arabs as it is... I say we let israel use full force against the terrorist bastards..
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Yeah... the US is goin too easy on the arabs as it is... I say we let israel use full force against the terrorist bastards..
Amen sister.
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That he would reevaluate our policies regarding the Israeli/Palestinian? Meaning that we would be completely fair and impartial? Even if it meant condemning Israel's actions in the U.N. along with everyone else?
never in a million years, he could never generate enough money from the jews to even run.
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As we lack the political will to win...it will never happen. We can't win small wars. the American public does not understand low intensity conflict. They see it as almost peace keeping in nature and don't understand the harsh reality of an insurgency campaign. U have to out "g" the g. U have to be tougher and more brutal in the short term We did that in Vietnam. We were better at it then the VC by 1970. Other factors made us loose that war. No Arab army can face us. We crushed the rags in Falujha 2 years ago because it was a straight up fight. We can't win this war because the American public will not allow us to be as brutal as we need to be.
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Its not torture I was taking about but..as I said out G the G. They do the same thing so u do what u have to win. Anything less and ur seen as weak. We have rules and that makes us better..but it will also make us better losers and ur life or anybody who posts on this board is not worth losing to any of these people. We can crush anybody in the world militarily but we can't fight a 4th generation low intensity conflict because its much uglier and its means and ends are much murkier. Americans won't stand for it. Most of u guys prove it. Not knocking u..but its a fact..decent Americans lack the will.
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Actually, the American public has let Bush pass torture bills. I don't know what else we can do. It's the pesky rest of the world and their damn Geneva convention rules that won't let us drill holes in every eyeball in that country, which will ultimately bring peace.
The techniques we use in this country can be called uncomfortable, irritating, demeaning, humiliating, and otherwise miserable but are no where near the kinds of torture used throughout history. Definitely not inhumane.
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True and besides they have a vastly different idea of what humiliating is. They get pissed off and "offended" at the drop of a hat.
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As we lack the political will to win...it will never happen. We can't win small wars. the American public does not understand low intensity conflict. They see it as almost peace keeping in nature and don't understand the harsh reality of an insurgency campaign. U have to out "g" the g. U have to be tougher and more brutal in the short term We did that in Vietnam. We were better at it then the VC by 1970. Other factors made us loose that war. No Arab army can face us. We crushed the rags in Falujha 2 years ago because it was a straight up fight. We can't win this war because the American public will not allow us to be as brutal as we need to be.
Completely agree. We could end this in a week if we went grid by grid and just started leveling buildings. Too much collateral damage though. Would never pass muster under the rules of engagement.
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Thats not what i was getting at. That would never pass..it may not even work. U have to fight a shadow war. U use SOF guys. U don't kill Al Sadr...u send his top guys back to him in pieces. U don't kill the Al queda number 1 by smart bomb...somebody finds him crucified upside down with a FOX news crew right there to film it. U do subtle things like reintroduce flame throwers. U terrorize the Terrorists. The folks who brought down Pablo Escobar did the same thing...Calli cartel guys out G'ed the Mediane(SP) guys..car bombs etc. Corrupt officials disappeare...We know how to do this . We did it during the 80's in South America. U scare the shit outa these bastards and when there is a stand up fight u flatten everything. u work the civilians into such a state of panic evertime there's a fire fight that they turn on ther bad guys. U have to start small..u can't do scorched earth right away. u have to wait until eveybody is terrified. Then when bad guys are brought in..u reward people well..schools..roads..tr ash removal. u find out exactly what people want or need and provide it right away. U keep this idiots guessing and they will crack. U hit them with a carefully orchestrated phys-op plan. Out Guerilla the Guerilla.
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Right. And all of those things violate the rules of engagement. What sucks is the terrorists we're fighting don't have any.
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The rules would change...when we start these things the gloves always come off but as things calm down we always try and bring the conventional/garrison mentality with us. The rags have no rules..special men with the right training..who can be trusted not to go nuts could change the course of the war in Iraq. We have plenty at places like Bragg and Coronado bay.
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The rules would change...when we start these things the gloves always come off but as things calm down we always try and bring the conventional/garrison mentality with us. The rags have no rules..special men with the right training..who can be trusted not to go nuts could change the course of the war in Iraq. We have plenty at places like Bragg and Coronado bay.
We already use unconventional tactics with SF, Delta, etc., but not on a large scale. I hear what you're saying, but it would never fly back home. Heads would roll. Plus we'd not only violate our own rules of engagement, but the Geneva Convention too. We'd become war criminals.
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Thats not what i was getting at. That would never pass..it may not even work. U have to fight a shadow war. U use SOF guys. U don't kill Al Sadr...u send his top guys back to him in pieces. U don't kill the Al queda number 1 by smart bomb...somebody finds him crucified upside down with a FOX news crew right there to film it.
We didn't mind flame throwing the Japanese in the pacific. The average life span of a USMC flamer thrower was 8 minutes. We should have killed Sadr LONG AGO!
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He would be called anti-semite. Major media would mock him. No big corps would give him money.
So true.
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As we lack the political will to win...it will never happen. We can't win small wars. the American public does not understand low intensity conflict. They see it as almost peace keeping in nature and don't understand the harsh reality of an insurgency campaign. U have to out "g" the g. U have to be tougher and more brutal in the short term We did that in Vietnam. We were better at it then the VC by 1970. Other factors made us loose that war. No Arab army can face us. We crushed the rags in Falujha 2 years ago because it was a straight up fight. We can't win this war because the American public will not allow us to be as brutal as we need to be.
What are we supposed to be winning exactly? What are getting out of beating insurgents in Iraq? The insurgents there are not the same as the people who blew up the trade towers and the ones who want to kill every american standing. The shias there have their own agenda, so the US should pull out and get out of their way. Of course that would also push put the sunnis insurgents, who are the one's that want to destroy america.
If you wanted to take real action then you wouldn't have relations with countries like Saudia Arabia. You would also would have a stronger immigration policy. Afterall, many of the 9/11 hijackers had out stayed their visas. Winning the war on terror will require the use of brains, not braun and carpet bombing campaigns. ::)
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Not gonna argue that at all..Its a small war...must be fought on all fronts PR/shadows/Political/ etc. The fear of what we will do must be brought down on these people. It must be fought in the shadows..no caqrpet bombing civilians..but no Geneva convention as regards the terrorists. No prisoners..no restriction on torture. At the same time u don't round up 40 guys every time. U build informants, networks....low cost low casulties and u get the most bang for ur buck. Nobody back here needs to know. No news..no reporters. One day Al Sadr shows up dead with a twinkie shoved up his ass.
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I was wathcing 'shootout' on the hisoty channel tonight - basically a documentary/reanimation of the street fighting in ramana areas.
essentially, the US forces' job was to 'destabalize the insurgent network'. Their job was to move town to town and pretty much kill or arrest every male. And the trick was nice - push everyone out of town onto main road, then the chopper showed up and mowed down every human being on the road. There was no interrogation, no "surrender now". Just large groups of people fleeing the gunfire, killed from above.
They would move town to town, chasing people out and then choppers finishing them as they left the town. They hit 3 towns in this episode. Cleared every one. Now... i could see justifying this if these men were attacking us... but they were just running, running, running from the US forces. I guess it's easy to label anyone an insurgent when they're dead from 20mm fire and you're writing the history :(
I love the way you manipulate information to make the US look like the bad guy. Truth is they probably WERE insurgents.
But I know you... don't let the TRUTH stop you.
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240 and alike..read Generation Kill..its by a Rolling Stone writer who followed 1st Recon BN during the push. We should have killed more. Its war..during combat operations u do what u have to. Doing that now would be different unless u have another Falujha etc.
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Thats not what i was getting at. That would never pass..it may not even work. U have to fight a shadow war. U use SOF guys. U don't kill Al Sadr...u send his top guys back to him in pieces. U don't kill the Al queda number 1 by smart bomb...somebody finds him crucified upside down with a FOX news crew right there to film it. U do subtle things like reintroduce flame throwers. U terrorize the Terrorists. The folks who brought down Pablo Escobar did the same thing...Calli cartel guys out G'ed the Mediane(SP) guys..car bombs etc. Corrupt officials disappeare...We know how to do this . We did it during the 80's in South America. U scare the shit outa these bastards and when there is a stand up fight u flatten everything. u work the civilians into such a state of panic evertime there's a fire fight that they turn on ther bad guys. U have to start small..u can't do scorched earth right away. u have to wait until eveybody is terrified. Then when bad guys are brought in..u reward people well..schools..roads..tr ash removal. u find out exactly what people want or need and provide it right away. U keep this idiots guessing and they will crack. U hit them with a carefully orchestrated phys-op plan. Out Guerilla the Guerilla.
That is a very interesting analysis. Except that when you are fighting a jihad, or are a suicide bomber, you expect death.
How do you terrify terrorists when they will blow themselves up and their own peoples to send a message to the oppressors?
Also, since there is such a hatred among some Iraqis, Afghanis against the oppressor. It seems like the more the "coalition" does to stop them, they go back to the basic lines of terror. Look at Abu Garib, that was humiliating shit. Did it stop the terrorist or scare them? No, it just renewed their efforts, hell, they train their terrorists while they are barely out of diapers.
It seems like a never ending cycle. The muslims and jews have been fighting each other for centuries and still no end in sight.
Sandra
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That is a very interesting analysis. Except that when you are fighting a jihad, or are a suicide bomber, you expect death.
How do you terrify terrorists when they will blow themselves up and their own peoples to send a message to the oppressors?
Also, since there is such a hatred among some Iraqis, Afghanis against the oppressor. It seems like the more the "coalition" does to stop them, they go back to the basic lines of terror. Look at Abu Garib, that was humiliating shit. Did it stop the terrorist or scare them? No, it just renewed their efforts, hell, they train their terrorists while they are barely out of diapers.
It seems like a never ending cycle. The muslims and jews have been fighting each other for centuries and still no end in sight.
Sandra
What a fine and constructive conclusion. What is your suggestion to solve the issue then? ::)
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What a fine and constructive conclusion. What is your suggestion to solve the issue then? ::)
I, along with the politicians who put us in that area have no idea of an exit plan.
Although I do think that the administration did think that "shock and awe" would do the trick.
Sending in more troops to clean out the insurgents, will the American people accept this?
Will it work?
What do the generals in the day to day field action think will do the trick?
Whichever decision is made, will it seem like the "coalition" is "cutting and running"?
That is why Im not in public office, and this is why I do vote in most every election on all levels.
In that region, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Sandra