The four main positions on Iraq war, and where each Pres. candidate stands

[240 is Back]

Mods - pin me?

There are four basic positions, near as I can tell.  feel free to add any I missed.

1.  Full retreat from Iraq - either immediate or modified in a year or less
2.  Retreat from cities and guard pipeline/bases/border, leaving cities to Iraqi forces to handle
3.  "Stay course" with same or small troop increases of 15% annually (Bush's current surge over 5 yrs)
4.  Overwhelimingly crush insurgents with 200,000+ troops and win outright.

So far,

Hilary - promises to be out within one year (1 or 2?)
Obama - promises quick withdrawl (1)
McCain - praises bush's current policy (3)
Guiliani - praises bush's current policy (3)

[Cap]

5. Pull some Marines.  Send in Rangers when targets need annihilating, SEALs for intel and same as Rangers, SF for great intel, Delta for same and great take downs.  All the major intel can be used to bomb the shit out fo targets and further pull out more troops.  Use Mercs.  I like it. Lol

[ieffinhatecardio]

How do we honestly know what McCain will do? This may be wishful thinking on my part but I think he's the man to right that ship. As cap pointed out in another thread he's liked and respected by Democrats as well as Republicans. Not all of course but enough so that he could bridge the gap between the two parties.

I'm holding out hope that he's the man. If he isn't I don't see anyone else that can do the job. Yikes.

[Cap]

How do we honestly know what McCain will do? This may be wishful thinking on my part but I think he's the man to right that ship. As cap pointed out in another thread he's liked and respected by Democrats as well as Republicans. Not all of course but enough so that he could bridge the gap between the two parties.

I'm holding out hope that he's the man. If he isn't I don't see anyone else that can do the job. Yikes.

He really can bridge the gap.  I like him and having been in war, he knows strategy better than any other candidate.

[Delusional Liberal]

pull out and install a brutal US friendly dictator.  guard the oil infrastructure.

[240 is Back]

How do we honestly know what McCain will do?

He is choosing the LEAST popular position.

it is far more likely that a candidate would choose a popular position, then flip flop once in office.

But when you run on somethign no one wants, chances are you're not gonna change.  The man in 70 years old, running on a pro - war stance.  No way he is worried about long term popularity.  He's doing what he believes is right - staying the course - and its unliley he'll change.

[240 is Back]

pull out and install a brutal US friendly dictator.  guard the oil infrastructure.

I agree completely.  That would be option 2 above.

The reason we won't?  I think it's defense spending.  We'll need what, 20,000 men TOPS in tents with technology, to guard the entire thing?  If you send the other 120k home, suddenly haliburton and KBR lose a big chunk of income.  Will Bush allow that?  Thus far, he has caved to their requests.

Interestingly, the iraqi people want us out too. 

[ieffinhatecardio]

He is choosing the LEAST popular position.

it is far more likely that a candidate would choose a popular position, then flip flop once in office.

But when you run on somethign no one wants, chances are you're not gonna change.  The man in 70 years old, running on a pro - war stance.  No way he is worried about long term popularity.  He's doing what he believes is right - staying the course - and its unliley he'll change.

There is still the possibility that he's doing what he thinks will win him the nomination.

[Dos Equis]

Mods - pin me?

There are four basic positions, near as I can tell.  feel free to add any I missed.

1.  Full retreat from Iraq - either immediate or modified in a year or less
2.  Retreat from cities and guard pipeline/bases/border, leaving cities to Iraqi forces to handle
3.  "Stay course" with same or small troop increases of 15% annually (Bush's current surge over 5 yrs)
4.  Overwhelimingly crush insurgents with 200,000+ troops and win outright.

So far,

Hilary - promises to be out within one year (1 or 2?)
Obama - promises quick withdrawl (1)
McCain - praises bush's current policy (3)
Guiliani - praises bush's current policy (3)

There are more than four candidates in the race. 

[240 is Back]

There is still the possibility that he's doing what he thinks will win him the nomination.

Possible.   If so, I would seriously question his integrity.

If he'll work to influence others to prolong the war for 2 more years (and 1500 more dead troops) just to win the nomination, man, that's just evil!

[240 is Back]

There are more than four candidates in the race. 

REALLY?  HOLY SHIT!!!

yeah, I know.  hence the "so far" phrase.  Everyone chip in what they know about the candidates.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Possible.   If so, I would seriously question his integrity.

If he'll work to influence others to prolong the war for 2 more years (and 1500 more dead troops) just to win the nomination, man, that's just evil!

We're not getting out of there anytime soon. I don't see it as prolonging the war for 2 more years. I don't like the fatalities either Rob but we have to realize we're there to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. I'd much rather have McCain in charge than anyone else currently in the running.

As for your integrity comment, yes, and I can't believe I'm saying this but that ship has sailed. All politicians in the big time sold their souls long ago.

[240 is Back]

true.   I know we need their oil, and i'm okay with that.  I'd just like to see us leave the cities and guard the resources, and let them police themselves.

it's a decent compromise - there will be some skull cracking, but it's happening anyway.  let it happen once, let one side win, and our men will be protecting the real reason we went there.

[kh300]

new york city was a fuking mess back in the 80's.. an absolute warzone.. the nypd couldnt handle the problems- drug loards ruled the streets, gang members out numbered the police, crack just hit the street...so the dea-fbi-marshalls-guard.... they all came in to take controll of the city.. took several years but eventually the crime stoped the nypd grew and today its one of the safest cities in america..

many officers were killed in that time, but it was worth it today. it took some time but a once 'pathetic' police force has become the model for the rest of american police departments. the same thing needs to happen in iraq- once it does we will all be safer..

[Dos Equis]

new york city was a fuking mess back in the 80's.. an absolute warzone.. the nypd couldnt handle the problems- drug loards ruled the streets, gang members out numbered the police, crack just hit the street...so the dea-fbi-marshalls-guard.... they all came in to take controll of the city.. took several years but eventually the crime stoped the nypd grew and today its one of the safest cities in america..

many officers were killed in that time, but it was worth it today. it took some time but a once 'pathetic' police force has become the model for the rest of american police departments. the same thing needs to happen in iraq- once it does we will all be safer..

A big plus for Giuliani. 

[24KT]

new york city was a fuking mess back in the 80's.. an absolute warzone.. the nypd couldnt handle the problems- drug loards ruled the streets, gang members out numbered the police, crack just hit the street...so the dea-fbi-marshalls-guard.... they all came in to take controll of the city.. took several years but eventually the crime stoped the nypd grew and today its one of the safest cities in america..

many officers were killed in that time, but it was worth it today. it took some time but a once 'pathetic' police force has become the model for the rest of american police departments. the same thing needs to happen in iraq- once it does we will all be safer..

How did all that crack get on the streets of NYC to begin with? 
The San Jose Mercury a tiny little newspaper had a lot of undisputed things to say about it, as did Michael Ruppert

[24KT]

A big plus for Giuliani. 

Giuliani can't run on what he did 20 years ago, when what he did 6 years ago is so fresh in people's minds,
...and getting fresher everyday. He couldn't beat Hilary for the Senate, and he won't beat her for the White House

[Cap]

Giuliani can't run on what he did 20 years ago, when what he did 6 years ago is so fresh in people's minds,
...and getting fresher everyday. He couldn't beat Hilary for the Senate, and he won't beat her for the White House

Hmmm...you need to take into account the fact that there are other states beside NY and people remember what he did in 9/11 and how he cleaned up NY with Bratton via Zero Tolerance Policing.

[240 is Back]

Hmmm...you need to take into account the fact that there are other states beside NY and people remember what he did in 9/11 and how he cleaned up NY with Bratton via Zero Tolerance Policing.

And you need to remember there are two video clips that Loose Change Final Cut will MAKE SURE everyone in America sees.

First clip - On 9/11, Rudy telling CNN camera "I was warned about the towers collapsing" ten minutes before the first tower collapsed.  Official story is that no one knew.  As the firefighters streamed in, to their death, Rudy got a heads-up?  You explain it!

Second clip - Rudy telling the camera that the FEMA team set up camp on Monday night so they'd be ready for Tuesday morning.  Explain that!


Rudy has his demons.  His excitement to be the big guy on TV led to him saying things which didn't click with the official story!

[24KT]

Hmmm...you need to take into account the fact that there are other states beside NY and people remember what he did in 9/11 and how he cleaned up NY with Bratton via Zero Tolerance Policing.

That's my point Cap. His record on crime in NYC is something that might resonate with NY voters older than 30 able to remember, but it's foreign to the rest of the county. 911 though is not just a NY issue, that's federal, ...much fresher in people's memories, ...and there are far too many people all over the country asking questions about 911, and Giuliani's part in it. If Giuliani is on the Republican ticket, you can only bet more and more questions concerning his 911 role will emerge. It's inevitable.

[Cap]

I think you all underestimate the general populace and their lack of information.  People do not talk about 9/11 in terms of conspiracy on a regular basis, or at all from those I have encountered, especially on the east coast.  Most people just remember it as a terrible disaster.  You take the fact that a select few question 9/11 and extrapolate to the entire country but that just doesn't fit.  If you want to talk about his qualifications then I think we would have a better discussion.

[240 is Back]

I think you all underestimate the general populace and their lack of information.  People do not talk about 9/11 in terms of conspiracy on a regular basis, or at all from those I have encountered, especially on the east coast.  Most people just remember it as a terrible disaster.  You take the fact that a select few question 9/11 and extrapolate to the entire country but that just doesn't fit.  If you want to talk about his qualifications then I think we would have a better discussion.

You're a staunch republican who has been shown testimony by WTc witnesses, which you call crazy.  Your mind is closed.  In real life, people smell that on you. 

Bring it up.  You'd be surprised who believes "inside job".  When you start a conversation with "Some asshole on a message board said something crazy...", they're going to nod to avoid dealing with you on it.  If you start a convo with "I don't know what to think about the NYPD and USAF people saying WTC7 was a controlled demo.  Their testimony points to explosives, but that would mean govt compliance and possible foreknowledge.  What do you guys think?"

Sometimes, when someone is a douchebag pompous and they try to dominate every situation with their beliefs, it's easier to ignore them.  I don't being up 911 much in real life.  people get emotional.

[Dos Equis]

Giuliani can't run on what he did 20 years ago, when what he did 6 years ago is so fresh in people's minds,
...and getting fresher everyday. He couldn't beat Hilary for the Senate, and he won't beat her for the White House

Dang Jag.  You start to sound like 240 when you make stuff up like this.  Giuliani was not mayor of New York 20 years ago.  He served from 1994 to 2001.  

Hillary didn't beat Rudi for the Senate.  Rudi withdrew before the election after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani#Run_for_United_States_Senate.2C_2000

Your response?
 

[240 is Back]

You start to sound like 240 when you make stuff up like this.  

you're the dreamer who lied about being a "college professor".

Dude, it's like 9 am Hawaii time, right?  Shouldn't you be teaching your classes of MBA students your views on history?

HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA

[24KT]

Dang Jag.  You start to sound like 240 when you make stuff up like this.  Giuliani was not mayor of New York 20 years ago.  He served from 1994 to 2001.  

Hillary didn't beat Rudi for the Senate.  Rudi withdrew before the election after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani#Run_for_United_States_Senate.2C_2000

Your response?
 

Who are you... the typo police? Is it my fault the '1' key is so close to the '2' key on my keyboard?
You try typing with nails as long as mine.  Yes, I knew Giuliani withdrew from the race for "medical reasons".
It is also my personal belief it had less to do with medical reasons than other reasons, ...but that's merely speculation on my part so I didn't bring it into the discussion, ...other than to say he couldn't beat her then, ...and he won't beat her now. Giuliani is not high enough on the food chain. I'm leaving it at that.