Does backing a war mean that a candidate will.....

[Cap]

that the candidate will take the exact same approach with the war?  What I mean is use of forces, amount of missions, etc.

[24KT]

that the candidate will take the exact same approach with the war?  What I mean is use of forces, amount of missions, etc.

Depends on the candidate. In the case of Giuliani, I'd speculate yes,
...based on his statements about the war and Bush's stategy in it.

[Cap]

What bothers me about the war, not being in it, is that this and every other president after Vietnam (even some in Vietnam) have used forces correctly.  They know jack shit about what forces do what.  Marines suck at their current job but because they are massed produced they are sent.  They don't have the maturity to deal with treating Iraqis with respect.  That is a main problem right there.

[OzmO]

What bothers me about the war, not being in it, is that this and every other president after Vietnam (even some in Vietnam) have used forces correctly.  They know jack shit about what forces do what.  Marines suck at their current job but because they are massed produced they are sent.  They don't have the maturity to deal with treating Iraqis with respect.  That is a main problem right there.

In bold........


Presidents  decide strategic objectives.

Tactics and use of forces are decided by the generals.

[24KT]

What bothers me about the war, not being in it, is that this and every other president after Vietnam (even some in Vietnam) have used forces correctly.  They know jack shit about what forces do what.  Marines suck at their current job but because they are massed produced they are sent.  They don't have the maturity to deal with treating Iraqis with respect.  That is a main problem right there.

I don't know that it's so much a Marine thing as it is a war mentality.

Then too you have guys in there who were sent in to do a specific job on their tour,
...then their role has been changed, without their thinking being changed as well.

Fresh troops might go in there thinking we're here to help rebuild, ...but when 'stop loss' policies require the initial assault teams to remain, how are they to then shed the attitude we're here to kick Iraqi ass? How motivated can they remain to the mission at hand... even if they did have a clear set of objectives to begin with? The military personnel are only HUMAN, despite the horrors of war doing their best to drag every last vestige of humanity out of them. They need to cope, ...and the coping mechanisms employed by humans in a war-zone, ...especially one like Iraq, aren't always the most conducive to civility. How can you help rebuild a civilization, when you are barely civilized yourself? (That's not a slam against the troops, ...but rather a commentary on the conditions under which they exist)

[240 is Back]

Marines work their asses off.

However, they're being ordered to do a stall tactic over there so we can secure oil and spend money.

This is Bush's SEVENTH war initiate/strategy.  You're telling me that the only superpower in the world can't fking CRUSH iraq in 4 years?  Nope.  It's stalling by design.  The moment you open your mind to that possibility, it all makes sense, every stall, surge, and strategy.

[Cap]

I don't know that it's so much a Marine thing as it is a war mentality.

Marines work their asses off.

Do you know the one skill that Marines pride themselves on?  Answer me that.

Do you know what are meant for?

Are they trained in unconventional warfare, which is what we fight these days?

Who's better at that skill?

Who are trained to interact with locals and treat them with respect?  It ain't Marines, but answer the questions please.

[24KT]

Marines work their asses off.

However, they're being ordered to do a stall tactic over there so we can secure oil and spend money.

This is Bush's SEVENTH war initiate/strategy.  You're telling me that the only superpower in the world can't fking CRUSH iraq in 4 years?  Nope.  It's stalling by design.  The moment you open your mind to that possibility, it all makes sense, every stall, surge, and strategy.

...especially put in the context of Iraq being a country torn apart by 8 years of war with Iran,
then crippled by sanctions for over 12 yrs?  Kinda makes you say hmmmm....

[militarymuscle69]

I don't know that it's so much a Marine thing as it is a war mentality.

Then too you have guys in there who were sent in to do a specific job on their tour,
...then their role has been changed, without their thinking being changed as well.

Fresh troops might go in there thinking we're here to help rebuild, ...but when 'stop loss' policies require the initial assault teams to remain, how are they to then shed the attitude we're here to kick Iraqi ass? How motivated can they remain to the mission at hand... even if they did have a clear set of objectives to begin with? The military personnel are only HUMAN, despite the horrors of war doing their best to drag every last vestige of humanity out of them. They need to cope, ...and the coping mechanisms employed by humans in a war-zone, ...especially one like Iraq, aren't always the most conducive to civility. How can you help rebuild a civilization, when you are barely civilized yourself? (That's not a slam against the troops, ...but rather a commentary on the conditions under which they exist)

THERE IS NO STOP LOSS IN PLACE FOR THE FINAL TIME!!!I just attended retirements for all branches of the service last friday

[240 is Back]

...especially put in the context of Iraq being a country torn apart by 8 years of war with Iran, then crippled by sanctions for over 12 yrs?  Kinda makes you say hmmmm....

And, we own the govt.  we have 130k men.  We own the air.  We have unlimited budget.

It's stalling by design, folks.  Wake up and smell the vivarin!