Who here supports the the Patriot Act?

[Eyeball Chambers]

Just curious, why or why not?

[Camel Jockey]

No.

Why would a person with any sort of sense support something that allows the government to lock up people for an unlimited period of time without trail? They could just accuse you due to mistaken identity and lock you up. Worse, they could just get sick of you speaking out against their policies and decide to lock you up. Unlimited posibilities here!

Basically it just gives wayyyy too much power to the government, which shouldn't happen. Shit like the Patriot Act is something you find in facist dictatorships and not democratic republics like the United States.

[Brixtonbulldog]

I do.  It it a major part of the reason more attacks have not occured.  It is the tools necesarry to fight these assholes.

What's funny is most democrats not only knew about the wire tapping, the indefinite confinement, and other things contained in the act long before they brought it out in the open to fight it, but many actually claimed to support it!


.... and then elections were coming up and they needed ammution.

[Eyeball Chambers]

I see it as a slap in the face to people who have defended our Freedom.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
~Benjamin Franklin

If I did support it though, I would feel like an Anti American Coward to admit that I did.

[24KT]

I see it as a slap in the face to people who have defended our Freedom.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
~Benjamin Franklin

If I did support it though, I would feel like an Anti American Coward to admit that I did.

...and, I might add... will get neither!

[Purge_WTF]

  That Ben Franklin quote is a revelation. If you support the Patriot Act, not only are you a coward, but you're also guilty of treason as far as I'm concerned.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Of all people back in the day BF would have supported something like this. 

and he would be a conservative, almost libertarian, I might add.

[24KT]

Bulldog, are you a vet?

[Brixtonbulldog]

Bulldog, are you a vet?

yes

[youandme]

I's sure using the word patriot, makes it ok with the narmal folk round here.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Are you smoking crack tonight?  Seriously.   The Patriot Act removed the checks and balances, as well as the 4th amendment, that Ben himself wrote.

You have been monster wrong about your 911 facts, and that's fine cause you are scared to face it.  but wiki ol' ben and read his take on shit.

geez, you have no clue.  Ben franklin would have loved the patriot act.  Damn you are owning yourself man.

The politics of your side is so far from anything the fathers of this country would have ever tolerated.  Conservatives especially neo-cons have have thier priorities straight.  I personally would rather BE HERE to enjoy the constitution and the patriot act is one more step towards accomplishing that.  Why do you think terrorists were so happy when the dems won congress?  Believe me bush knows what he's doing and that scares them.

No I haven't been anywhere near wrong.  And I also don't make the wild accusations and outlandish assumptions you do.... lol, facts.  you're funny.

[Dos Equis]

I think a preliminary question would be who here has actually read the Patriot Act.  http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

[24KT]

yes

Well don't you think it's about time a certain Bulldog got himself neutered! 

cheesy vet joke, I know, ...but i had to take it. Thanks for walking right into it. 

[Brixtonbulldog]

Well don't you think it's about time a certain Bulldog got himself neutered! 

cheesy vet joke, I know, ...but i had to take it. Thanks for walking right into it. 

wow... normally i appreciate jokes even at my own expense but that was just stupid.

Stick your day job

[24KT]

Why do you think terrorists were so happy when the dems won congress?  Believe me bush knows what he's doing and that scares them.

The only people unhappy with the democratic congressional win were neo-cons. The rest of the world cheered.

Yes, Bush does know what he's doing, ...and it scares intelligent, rational, thinking people everywhere.
If that by your definition makes intelligent people terrorists, ... I'm not surprised. Falls into neocon doctrines of late.

[24KT]

wow... normally i appreciate jokes even at my own expense but that was just stupid.

{lol} {blush} ok... I'll agree with you there. It was corny, ...but I couldn't resist 

Stick your day job

OK, ...if you insist ...Check this Out!!! <--click me

[Brixtonbulldog]

you're attacking me instead of defending your statement.  Are you retracting your statement that ben F would have loved the patriot act? 

Ben Franklin was smart enough to know that no one can enjoy freedom while being murdered and it is most important to secure our safety first even though you may not trust the gov't doing it.

How do you know the terrorists were happy the dems won?  Cause the losing party repubs told ya?

http://ericfloyd.vox.com/library/post/alqaida-is-happy-that-the-democrats-won.html

http://www.topix.net/forum/us-senate/george-allen/T6PAFQ88FPKDOA8EM

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752136/posts

[Brixtonbulldog]

The only people unhappy with the democratic congressional win were neo-cons. The rest of the world cheered.

Yes, Bush does know what he's doing, ...and it scares intelligent, rational, thinking people everywhere.
If that by your definition makes intelligent people terrorists, ... I'm not surprised. Falls into neocon doctrines of late.

oh okay...lol.

[Brixtonbulldog]

really?

Afghan - drug worse than ever. taleban rules the place.  While we were there in force they were running terrified.
Iraq - 100+ iraqis dead every day, 3000+ dead US forces.  How many insurgents killed?  Or have you stooped so low as to combine that figure with civilians.
borders still wide open.Completely agree...  a Bush failure.
Omar and Osama still on the loose.Saddam?  And we're still going after UBL.  He may be a lot of places including dead.


Yeah, he konws what he's doing.  Monster good job there. 

Just because the drive by media refuses to cover Bush successes doesn't mean they're not all over the place.

No more attacks on US soil since Bush handled 911.  and they've been trying if you haven't noticed.

[Dos Equis]

The only people unhappy with the democratic congressional win were neo-cons. The rest of the world cheered.

Yes, Bush does know what he's doing, ...and it scares intelligent, rational, thinking people everywhere.
If that by your definition makes intelligent people terrorists, ... I'm not surprised. Falls into neocon doctrines of late.

Jag what's your definition of a "neocon"?

[Eyeball Chambers]

I though this was interesting.

Eight states (Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Montana and Vermont) and 396 cities and counties (including New York City; Los Angeles; Dallas; Chicago; Eugene, Oregon; Philadelphia; and Cambridge, Massachusetts) have passed resolutions condemning the Act for attacking civil liberties. Arcata, California was the first city to pass an ordinance that bars city employees (including police and librarians) from assisting or cooperating with any federal investigations under the Act that would violate civil liberties (Nullification). The Bill of Rights Defense Committee is helping coordinate local efforts to pass resolutions. Pundits question the validity of these ordinances, noting that under the Constitution's supremacy clause, federal law overrides state and local laws. However, others have opined that the federal employees, in using such procedures for investigations, violate the Constitution's clauses in the fourth amendment, and in these cases, the Constitution overrides the USA PATRIOT Act's provisions.

Maybe the system will hold up? 

[24KT]

Jag what's your definition of a "neocon"?

PNAC and their mindless butt licking supporters

[Eyeball Chambers]

Just because the drive by media refuses to cover Bush successes doesn't mean they're not all over the place.

No more attacks on US soil since Bush handled 911.  and they've been trying if you haven't noticed.

8 Years past before the United States was attacked (on our soil) after the first bombing of the WTC.