Author Topic: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court  (Read 6701 times)

Straw Man

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Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« on: February 21, 2016, 11:22:03 AM »
I think the court should be nothing but atheists.  Either that or justices who affirm their religious beliefs will not be part of their process for making decisions on legal maters (you know, their job)

Seeing Scalia's religious based arguments in the case mentioned below is disgusting. 

Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
BY LAWRENCE M. KRAUSS

Who should replace Antonin Scalia? On Monday, the Times reported that the Justice himself had weighed in on the question: last June, in his dissenting opinion in the same-sex marriage case Obergefell v. Hodges, Scalia wrote that the Court was “strikingly unrepresentative” of America as a whole and ought to be diversified. He pointed out that four of the Justices are natives of New York City, that none are from the Southwest (or are “genuine” Westerners), and that all of them attended law school at Harvard or Yale. Moreover, Scalia wrote, there is “not a single evangelical Christian (a group that comprises about one quarter of Americans), or even a Protestant of any denomination” on the Court. (All nine Justices are, to varying degrees, Catholic or Jewish.)

Scalia’s remarks imply that an evangelical Christian should be appointed to the Court. That’s a strange idea: surely, the separation of church and state enshrined in the Constitution strongly suggests that court decisions shouldn’t be based on religious preference, or even on religious arguments. The Ten Commandments are reserved for houses of worship; the laws of the land are, or should be, secular. Still, I’m inclined, in my own way, to agree with Scalia’s idea about diversity. My suggestion is that the next Supreme Court Justice be a declared atheist.


Atheists are a significantly underrepresented minority in government. According to recent findings from the Pew Research Center, about twenty-three per cent of American adults declare that they have no religious affiliation—which is two percentage points more than the number who declare themselves Catholic. Three per cent of Americans say that they are atheists—which means that there are more atheists than Jews in the United States. An additional four per cent declare themselves agnostic; as George Smith noted in his classic book “Atheism: The Case Against God,” agnostics are, for practical purposes, atheists, since they cannot declare that they believe in a divine creator. Even so, not a single candidate for major political office or Supreme Court Justice has “come out” declaring his or her non-belief.

From a judicial perspective, an atheist Justice would be an asset. In controversial cases about same-sex marriage, say, or access to abortion or birth control, he or she would be less likely to get mired in religion-based moral quandaries. Scalia himself often got sidetracked in this way: he framed his objections to laws protecting L.G.B.T. rights in a moral, rather than a legal-rights, framework. In his dissent, in 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas—a case that challenged a Texas law criminalizing gay sex—Scalia wrote that those who wanted to limit the rights of gay people to be teachers or scoutmasters were merely “protecting themselves and their families from a lifestyle they believe to be immoral and destructive.” To him, religion-based moral objections seemed to deserve more weight than either factual considerations (homosexuality is not destructive) or rights-based concerns (gay people’s rights must be protected). Indeed, Scalia’s meditation on the Court’s lack of religious diversity was part of a larger argument that the Court’s decision on same-sex marriage did not reflect prevailing religious and moral values. An atheist Justice, by contrast, would have different intellectual habits. I suspect that he or she would be more likely to focus on reason and empirical evidence.

In addition, the appointment of an atheist Justice would send a meaningful message: it would affirm that legal arguments are secular, and that they are based on a secular document, the Constitution, which was written during the founding of a secular democracy. Such an appointment would also help counter the perceived connection between atheism and lawlessness and immorality. That unfortunate and inaccurate link is made all too often in the United States. A Pew survey conducted last month showed that, once again, Americans would be less likely to vote for an atheist candidate than for a candidate who has no experience, is gay, was involved in financial improprieties, has had extramarital affairs, or is Muslim. Atheists are widely, absurdly, and openly mistrusted.

That distrust has ancient roots: because religion long ago claimed morality as its domain, atheism has long been connected to immorality. To many people, religiosity confers an aura of goodness. In the U.K., when people who had listed their religious affiliation as Christian on the national census were asked by the Richard Dawkins Foundation why they had done so, most said it was not because they actually accepted the detailed doctrines of their faith but because it made them feel like they were good people. This is a two-way street on which both directions point the wrong way. By the same token, when good people openly declare that they cannot accept religious doctrines or question the underlying concept of God, they are often classified as “bad.”


The prejudice against atheists has real-world consequences. In December, 2014, the Times reported that seven states—Arkansas, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas—still have laws on their books that make atheists ineligible to run for public office. And anti-atheist prejudice is shaping our Presidential race, too. Consider the case of Donald Trump in South Carolina. After Trump insulted Ted Cruz using a sexist slur, one voter responded by saying, “The way he speaks—that doesn’t sound like somebody who really believes in God that much. You want your children to look up at the President of the United States.”

Implicit in that statement is the idea that a politician’s belief in God is, in itself, a reason for children to look up to him or her. Meanwhile, other aspects of a candidate’s character seem not to matter. If the opinions of Cruz’s colleagues in the Senate and elsewhere are any indication, he seems to be rather unlikable; his competitors in the Republican primaries have suggested that he is less than truthful, as well. Still, Cruz captures a significant fraction of the evangelical vote because his character seems to matter less than his open and pronounced invocation of God in discussing his policies.

Our strange attitudes about atheism warp our politics and our laws. It’s time to remove the stigma attached to it. One way to do that is by appointing an atheist to the Supreme Court. Happily, such an appointment would be a tribute to the spirit, if not the letter, of one of Scalia’s last opinions. More than that, it would be a tribute to the secular principles upon which this country was founded.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/put-an-atheist-on-the-supreme-court

headhuntersix

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 11:35:33 AM »
Only if you're a douchbag lib.......guy went strictly by the Constitution...didn't make shit up.
L

Straw Man

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 12:40:40 PM »
Only if you're a douchbag lib.......guy went strictly by the Constitution...didn't make shit up.

really?

Quote
Scalia himself often got sidetracked in this way: he framed his objections to laws protecting L.G.B.T. rights in a moral, rather than a legal-rights, framework. In his dissent, in 2003, in Lawrence v. Texas—a case that challenged a Texas law criminalizing gay sex—Scalia wrote that those who wanted to limit the rights of gay people to be teachers or scoutmasters were merely “protecting themselves and their families from a lifestyle they believe to be immoral and destructive.” To him, religion-based moral objections seemed to deserve more weight than either factual considerations (homosexuality is not destructive) or rights-based concerns (gay people’s rights must be protected).

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 12:44:34 PM »
Yes, because we all know that someone without morals has worked really well.  ::)

iwantmass

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 12:48:49 PM »
I don't think the goal should be to appoint an atheist, but I also don't see anything wrong with it if they are qualifed.  Lack of theology has nothing to do with morality.

The True Adonis

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2016, 02:35:01 PM »
Yes, because we all know that someone without morals has worked really well.  ::)
You are more immoral than I ever will be and I am an atheist.

Explain that.

Skeletor

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2016, 03:08:21 PM »
Yes, because we all know that someone without morals has worked really well.  ::)

So every atheist (or non-bible thumping christian) is without morals?
Maybe we should also disregard Article 6 of the Constitution and institute religious tests so only "moral" religious nutbags can hold any office?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2016, 07:46:02 PM »
HAHAHA.  Epic denial.

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 05:37:40 PM »
Haha yea b.c no liberal judges vote based on their moral views

The True Adonis

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 05:43:20 PM »
Haha yea b.c no liberal judges vote based on their moral views
Morality has nothing to do with religion.

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 05:48:57 PM »
Morality has nothing to do with religion.
Ok, tell us all about it with your years of education and study

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 06:00:42 PM »
Ok, tell us all about it with your years of education and study


???

I spent 12 years in catholic school (if you want to count the pre-K year) and I can tell you that he's right. 

Some of the most religious people are screaming we need to pre-emptively carpet bomg a villiage of 10,000 because there are 20 guys hidden there who may attack us one day.   

And some of the biggest atheists are calling for helping the weak and the poor. 

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2016, 06:05:01 PM »

???

I spent 12 years in catholic school (if you want to count the pre-K year) and I can tell you that he's right. 

Some of the most religious people are screaming we need to pre-emptively carpet bomg a villiage of 10,000 because there are 20 guys hidden there who may attack us one day.   

And some of the biggest atheists are calling for helping the weak and the poor. 
::) ::) congrats you've proved that some religious people are hypocrites....groundbrea king stuff

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2016, 06:06:15 PM »
::) ::) congrats you've proved that some religious people are hypocrites....groundbrea king stuff

and that some non-religious people are very sweet, caring, etc.

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2016, 06:08:38 PM »
and that some non-religious people are very sweet, caring, etc.
Wow, I guess that proves it...

The True Adonis

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2016, 06:17:14 PM »
Wow, I guess that proves it...
Look, if someone is only "doing good" because they fear their god or are trying to get in good graces with Jesus or their church, then that person is a piece of shit and only doing something for selfish reasons.  So what they are saying is if they did not have their religion, the would not even bother doing it.

Whereas the atheist, does good because it is morally right, benefits the recipient, and makes the person doing the good feel fulfilled.

With that said, religious people can do the same good without religion.  If they can't, then something is wrong with them morally.

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2016, 06:21:35 PM »
Look, if someone is only "doing good" because they fear their god or are trying to get in good graces with Jesus or their church, then that person is a piece of shit and only doing something for selfish reasons.  So what they are saying is if they did not have their religion, the would not even bother doing it.

Whereas the atheist, does good because it is morally right, benefits the recipient, and makes the person doing the good feel fulfilled.

With that said, religious people can do the same good without religion.  If they can't, then something is wrong with them morally.
Lol so based on your views anytime anyone does anything for reasons other than altruistic ones they are for selfish reasons?

It can be argued that no actions are altruistic, your argument makes no sense. Nobody is saying that without their religion they would go wild and never do good things...That's your stupidity and arrogance getting the better of you.

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2016, 06:22:16 PM »
Look, if someone is only "doing good" because they fear their god or are trying to get in good graces with Jesus or their church, then that person is a piece of shit and only doing something for selfish reasons.  So what they are saying is if they did not have their religion, the would not even bother doing it.

Whereas the atheist, does good because it is morally right, benefits the recipient, and makes the person doing the good feel fulfilled.

With that said, religious people can do the same good without religion.  If they can't, then something is wrong with them morally.


T H A N K   Y O U!!!!

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2016, 06:24:34 PM »
Lol so based on your views anytime anyone does anything for reasons other than altruistic ones they are for selfish reasons?

It can be argued that no actions are altruistic, your argument makes no sense. Nobody is saying that without their religion they would go wild and never do good things...That's your stupidity and arrogance getting the better of you.
Y O U R E   W E L C O M E!!!!

The True Adonis

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2016, 06:27:02 PM »
Lol so based on your views anytime anyone does anything for reasons other than altruistic ones they are for selfish reasons?

It can be argued that no actions are altruistic, your argument makes no sense. Nobody is saying that without their religion they would go wild and never do good things...That's your stupidity and arrogance getting the better of you.
Do you think religion is necessary for morality?

tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2016, 06:31:56 PM »
Do you think religion is necessary for morality?
what you said is that morality has NOTHING to do with religion...not that morality stems from religion.

Do you think that some people form their morals based on religion?

The True Adonis

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 06:43:53 PM »
what you said is that morality has NOTHING to do with religion...not that morality stems from religion.

Do you think that some people form their morals based on religion?
No.  Every moral they have can be sustained the moment they drop religion. (unless they are a shitty person, why would they all of a sudden cease to be moral just because they are no longer religious unless they are psychopathic)  All their morals can also be had without ever having religion.  So there is no basis for needing religion for any moral.

Another interesting fact is prison population and religiosity.


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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2016, 06:50:08 PM »
The religion of someone is not relevant, the job of the court decide if a law is constitutional or not. The simple fact that R and D try to stack the court with people that will legislate from the bench is unacceptable.
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tonymctones

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2016, 06:52:36 PM »
No.  Every moral they have can be sustained the moment they drop religion. (unless they are a shitty person, why would they all of a sudden cease to be moral just because they are no longer religious unless they are psychopathic)  All their morals can also be had without ever having religion.  So there is no basis for needing religion for any moral.

Another interesting fact is prison population and religiosity.


Again that's not what you said, what you said is that religion has nothing to do with morals.

Do you think that some people get their moral beliefs from religion? Easy question...

You're arguing a point no one is contesting, morals can be derived from a number of places...One of which is religion

The True Adonis

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Re: Put an Atheist on the Supreme Court
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2016, 06:54:38 PM »
Again that's not what you said, what you said is that religion has nothing to do with morals.

Do you think that some people get their moral beliefs from religion? Easy question...

You're arguing a point no one is contesting, morals can be derived from a number of places...One of which is religion
1. Morals have nothing to do with religion.
2. No. Human beings DO NOT get their morals from religion.  There are some bad morals in the bible that I am glad people do not use in today's society.